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AMCA News and Discussions

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 25 Sep 2016 01:48

^ Sure no one would like to bankroll the RnD cost. I agree USN is the only hope perhaps. India might be willing to do that only in case of some significant ToT, which again is far-fetched. EPE may never come to reality (I recently heard something about the new all blisk Fan module for F414 from a guy in the know, he's one of the top management in one of the biggest GE supliers, but I need to ask him some more details to be sure what's happening).

But tell me something which of the techs which increase endurance are yet to be developed?? I thought all of them are already demonstrated and would need relatively less efforts to incorporate in operational engine. If at all India wants 110kN, IMO EDE with tweaked FADEC is sufficient - no new Fan needed.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby brar_w » 25 Sep 2016 03:09

EDE technology is mostly developed but you are still looking at a 1/2 to 1 Billion or so to complete what is remaining and then run an operational test program. GE has said 4-5 years from contract to operational flight so even time wise its not something that can be done very quickly. 5-6 years of stable investment and dedicated test infrastructure requires a level of commitment that won't come from anyone outside of the USN. As I said, the Indian F414 order is likely incomplete so anything to mass procure that and then follow up with a more capable variant is at this point of time a far fetched idea. The ROKAF and DAPA has already moved on their KF-X and will probably look to shore up a contract before the AdA or HAL. They could potentially look for investments but we don't know what their plans are (GE had offered the EPE to them but we don't know whether the EPE, EDE or EE configurations were selected or if they just chose the existing F414).

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 05 Jan 2017 05:51

It looks like ADA is close to finalization of the external shaping of the AMCA. It has now put out an EOI for 6 qualified men who can take care of the structural design based on the above layout in about 24 months.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby JTull » 06 Jan 2017 19:20

Indranil wrote:It looks like ADA is close to finalization of the external shaping of the AMCA. It has now put out an EOI for 6 qualified men who can take care of the structural design based on the above layout in about 24 months.


What happened to the staff who worked on LCA design?

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 06 Jan 2017 19:34

^^6 qualified men or organizations?

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 06 Jan 2017 19:38

I have to say that AMCA's design management seems to be progressing in a haphazard way. I can't name the org, but they (a GoI lab) are in to structural design optimization phase of AMCA's very crucial component. On the other hand, I am reading the above news. Totally confused onlee...

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 06 Jan 2017 19:40

Indranil wrote:It looks like ADA is close to finalization of the external shaping of the AMCA. It has now put out an EOI for 6 qualified men who can take care of the structural design based on the above layout in about 24 months.


I have seen the EOI. And I was little confused. Its looks very similar to the one they put out for Ghatak. I presumed they reissued the same tender. AMCA is way too big for 6 guys to handle. We have close to 30 Structural engg in my office working only on front Wing-spar of two aircrafts, not counting those from overseas office.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 07 Jan 2017 00:01

^^^ There can be only one conclusion. You guys are inefficient. :P Just kidding. I am confused too. These are projects of national importance!

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby nachiket » 07 Jan 2017 00:10

Indranil wrote:^^^ There can be only one conclusion. You guys are inefficient. :P Just kidding. I am confused too. These are projects of national importance!

I'm hoping they already have several people (maybe some from the original LCA design team) and this is just to augment the team. If 6 people are going to do the entire structural design of a 5th gen fighter jet it'll take 10 years and even then we might be left with huge problems with the design.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 07 Jan 2017 01:15

I also think these 6 could be extra requirement and most probably they will be used for non critical requirements. This is normal in PSUs, I have worked for little time in a defense PSU's design department and every project had 1 or 2 contract engineers for helping the team

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 09 Jan 2017 05:36


Cosmo_R
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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Cosmo_R » 09 Jan 2017 05:58



Sounds good. The IAF can rest easy now. :)

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Manish_Sharma » 09 Jan 2017 06:10


Tirupati: With the induction of light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas into the Indian Air Force this year, the Aeron-autical Development Age-ncy (ADA) which has jointly developed the fourth generation aircraft with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), is now ready to develop the stealth fighter aircraft.

“The concept and feasibility study for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) has completed and submitted to the government. We are awaiting the government’s approval to develop prototype vehicles (PVs),” P.Ramachandra, director, admin and planning, Aero-nautical Development Agency told this newspaper on the sidelines of the Indian Science Congress.

It is designed to be the 25-tonne class aircraft whereas the Tejas is weighing only about 10 tonnes. It will have the range of 2,800 km.

“The aircraft will have many stealth features for evading radars. The weap-ons and antennas will not be visible from outside. This makes the aircraft heavy and it will have twin-engines,” he said.

This was envisioned as a replacement for the British Jaguar and Mirage 2000 which the IAF flies.

According to defence experts, the stealth fighter would be of great help during the initial days of a major war as it will allow the air force to target enemy’s infrastructure such as roads, railways, airfields, radars, headquarters and depots.

The Aeronautical Development Agency also plans to showcase the model in the upcoming Aero India exhibition.

Indian Air Force ordered 40 Tejas aircraft and 83 LCA Mark-1A aircraft with the HAL. The Air Force also wanted better specifications for LCA Mark-1A like mid-air refuelling and advanced electronic warfare suit.

“We are going to carry out the changes very soon,” he added.

When asked about the prolonged delay in developing the LCA, he pointed out that the aircraft was developed within eight years after it was sanctioned in 1993.

“The combat aircraft can be customised to our requirement which was earlier not possible with the imported planes. More than anything we have saved Rs 50,000 crore for the country as the HAL secured orders for 83 LCA Mark-1A planes,” he said.

The HAL is expected to deliver 10 combat aircraft per year in the initial period and it can be expanded up to 16 aircraft per year.

The LCA’s naval version also is currently undergoing various tests at Shore Based Test Facility at Goa.

Some of the foreign fighter jets which are competing with AMCA are Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, Mikoyan MiG-35, and Saab JAS 39 Gripen.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby abhik » 09 Jan 2017 08:03

No 1 requirement for the AMCA should be to replace at least half of the IAF fighters, just replacing jaugar/M2000 isn't enough.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 11 Jan 2017 01:17

Indranil wrote:It looks like ADA is close to finalization of the external shaping of the AMCA. It has now put out an EOI for 6 qualified men who can take care of the structural design based on the above layout in about 24 months.

Can you please provide link to the EOI. One person I know has expressed interest...need to forward EOI copy to him ASAP. I was not able to find EOI details on ADA's website.

Thx

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby PratikDas » 11 Jan 2017 04:21

Zynda wrote:
Indranil wrote:It looks like ADA is close to finalization of the external shaping of the AMCA. It has now put out an EOI for 6 qualified men who can take care of the structural design based on the above layout in about 24 months.

Can you please provide link to the EOI. One person I know has expressed interest...need to forward EOI copy to him ASAP. I was not able to find EOI details on ADA's website.

Thx

It may be too late but it doesn't hurt to try: https://www.ada.gov.in/currentdocs/EOI-2.pdf

There's a link on the top right of ADA's website which reads "PBQ & EOI". You'll find a hyperlink there to the same document.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 11 Jan 2017 06:33

Indranil wrote:It looks like ADA is close to finalization of the external shaping of the AMCA. It has now put out an EOI for 6 qualified men who can take care of the structural design based on the above layout in about 24 months.

Does it actually say "men"? Just curious

PS - just saw the pdf - it says "manpower required"-6 :)

Never mind - but this is a call for people with software package skills. Not being in that sort if business I am discovering that a lot of jobs do not get gone unless we have people with the requisite skills in using sophisticates software packages - like CAD or GIS

Someone correct me if I am wrong but it looks like "CATIA V5 R19", "Hypermesh" and "PATRAN-NASTRAN" seem to be some type of specialized software packages.

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Postby prasannasimha » 11 Jan 2017 07:20

All of these are used for aerospace vehicle design.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 11 Jan 2017 08:55

Thanks Pratik. I did see that EOI but I was expecting the words AMCA and over looked it. Anyways, looks like the last date for applying is over. Too bad because, the person I know has the required skills set.

Prasannasimha, those software packages are used in industries outside of Aerospace as weii.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby nachiket » 11 Jan 2017 09:09

Zynda wrote:Thanks Pratik. I did see that EOI but I was expecting the words AMCA and over looked it. Anyways, looks like the last date for applying is over. Too bad because, the person I know has the required skills set.

Prasannasimha, those software packages are used in industries outside of Aerospace as weii.

Ask him to contact them nonetheless. Who knows if they were able to fill all 6 positions. It looks like a specialized skill set that might be quite rare in India.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 11 Jan 2017 20:49

shiv wrote:
Someone correct me if I am wrong but it looks like "CATIA V5 R19", "Hypermesh" and "PATRAN-NASTRAN" seem to be some type of specialized software packages.


CATIA - CAD s/w used for 3D modelling here I suppose. As such its very extensive package and has many features spanning entire Product Life Cycle Management including support for manufacturing.

Hypermesh - Meshing s/w. Used for meshing the 3d model made above for structural analysis. Basically break the entire component in millions of tiny small cubes or tetrahedrons.

Patran-Nastran - Finite Element Solver. Solve Solid Mechanics governing equation on each of above tiny elements to get Stress-strain relationship, deformation for given load and so on. Nastran is made by NASA long time back (perhaps 1st of its kind) and its used by almost everyone now.

If they wanted 6 people as individuals they would have literally thousands flocking outside ADA. But they want some contractor company to provide them those 6 people as one package. There lies the rub.

Zynda wrote:Thanks Pratik. I did see that EOI but I was expecting the words AMCA and over looked it. Anyways, looks like the last date for applying is over. Too bad because, the person I know has the required skills set.

Prasannasimha, those software packages are used in industries outside of Aerospace as weii.


Still ask for your friend to give it a try. Last time for Ghatak ADA had extended the tender date.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 11 Jan 2017 21:19

JayS, the tender calls out manpower supply similar to Ghatak one as you have pointed it out. 6 folks of experience level 5-7 years supplied by one organization...not individual contributors. The interested person just wanted to try...he is not part of any org. I am really surprised by ADA's thought process. Asking onlee for 5-6 folks! Dunno what difference or significant contribution can be availed by such small number of engineers. I have a feeling that these tenders are more for optics purposes rather than to be of any significance!

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 11 Jan 2017 21:44

Like I had already posted earlier PSUs in India have the habit of temporary hiring of people. They are over and above the authorised permanent strength of the project. They are called contract engineers, used for mostly auxiliary work to help the team and cannot continue beyond a certain period

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 02 Feb 2017 00:27

How come others don't get to these news and only IDRW guys are able to?

Initial requirements for AMCA currently been discussed between ADA and IAF is 115-120 aircraft to replace its current fleet of 60 Mig-29UPG and 50+ Mirage-2000 when they are up for retirement post-2030. IAF is clear that AMCA will replace all Medium class Combat jet in its current fleet but it is still an initial estimate since Indian Airforce also has 120 Jaguar Strike aircraft which all will be gone by 2030, which too requires replacement but Jaguar replacement might also come in the procurement of LCA-Tejas MK2.

http://idrw.org/latest-update-on-amca-n ... ore-123314


The hilarious aspect is they warn you not to cut+paste or link while they do all that. They don't own this public news. AMCA, LCA are from public tax payer money

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby ranjan.rao » 02 Feb 2017 02:37

is it really feasible to get the AMCA up and flying with FOC in next 13 years, when these planes will be up for replacement. I had worked in similar situation when everyday we're fighting everyday but missing out the bigger picture...Hope the powers that be are thinking that 13 years will pass just like that and in that we may have a non namo govt

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Feb 2017 06:16

SaiK wrote:How come others don't get to these news and only IDRW guys are able to?

Initial requirements for AMCA currently been discussed between ADA and IAF is 115-120 aircraft to replace its current fleet of 60 Mig-29UPG and 50+ Mirage-2000 when they are up for retirement post-2030. IAF is clear that AMCA will replace all Medium class Combat jet in its current fleet but it is still an initial estimate since Indian Airforce also has 120 Jaguar Strike aircraft which all will be gone by 2030, which too requires replacement but Jaguar replacement might also come in the procurement of LCA-Tejas MK2.

http://idrw.org/latest-update-on-amca-n ... ore-123314


The hilarious aspect is they warn you not to cut+paste or link while they do all that. They don't own this public news. AMCA, LCA are from public tax payer money



All IDRW exclusives are just rumours and conjunction cooked up by their team as click baits.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 02 Feb 2017 21:59

ranjan.rao wrote:is it really feasible to get the AMCA up and flying with FOC in next 13 years, when these planes will be up for replacement. I had worked in similar situation when everyday we're fighting everyday but missing out the bigger picture...Hope the powers that be are thinking that 13 years will pass just like that and in that we may have a non namo govt

It depends on how you do it, and that depends on how have done it in the past. [example: GTRE]

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 03 Feb 2017 22:02

Too early for this topic, but, an image from AWST on the UK-Turkey 5th gen effort.

Image

AMCA lookalike.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Chinmay » 04 Feb 2017 09:15

NRao wrote:Too early for this topic, but, an image from AWST on the UK-Turkey 5th gen effort.

Image

AMCA lookalike.


More like an F-22 lookalike, no?

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 04 Feb 2017 09:20

The AMCA, to me at least, has more "diamond" wings than a F-22. The AMCA is closer to the YF-23, IMHO.

But, it is too early for the AngloTurk 5th gen plane.

What is very interesting is that ALL of these countries (Turkey, UK, SK, Japan) are buying the F-35.

Perhaps India should dump the Grip and F-16 And join the crowd.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Neshant » 06 Feb 2017 14:57

All of them rather not buy the F-35. Most signed up early on not knowing really what they were getting themselves into. That's why there has been a trend to cut down the planes numbers by various countries over time and massive pressure from US lobbyists to stay in the program. Unofficially, none can back out of this program.

Secondly most, except perhaps Turkey, are obligated to support the US and buy US planes regardless of their concerns over performance.

The time for joining the project was back when the work for it's development was being parcelled out. Its well past that stage and not only is there no domestic R&D gain to purchasing this plane, it's end result has not been what was expected.

The next opportunity for buying it is perhaps 10 yrs from now (if it has not been mothballed!) after all problems have been ironed out.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 06 Feb 2017 23:51

NRao wrote:The AMCA, to me at least, has more "diamond" wings than a F-22. The AMCA is closer to the YF-23, IMHO.

That is not the final config that they settled on. Th e final config looks very similar to this (and F-22).

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 07 Feb 2017 05:22

Change in wing design like this?
Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 07 Feb 2017 06:28

Yes, search for AMCA 3B-09 configuration. The highest detail of the wing was provided in this years NAL's Director's Report. It is very F-22 like.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 07 Feb 2017 07:05

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 07 Feb 2017 07:07

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 07 Feb 2017 07:08

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 07 Feb 2017 07:10

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 07 Feb 2017 07:24

Kartik,

I *think* that is an old drawing.

Check this out:

Image

Now stand about in line with the intake AND about twice the width of the wing, away from the intake and from that point look down the trailing edge of the wing. In your picture one would need to be way out.

I think that picture with Parrikar is the latest among all the pictures (including in teh following two posts).

From the pictures I have seen and done the drawing work is what I base my opinion (and it is just that) about the wing being closer to the YF-23 than the F-22.


My feel is that since the AMCA has TVC, they have designed the wing for "speed" and in case of a fist fight rely on the TVC to dance. Again, just my guess. But, based on the picture I am fairly to very confident that teh wing would be more "diamond shaped" than that of a F-22.
Last edited by NRao on 07 Feb 2017 07:43, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 07 Feb 2017 07:31



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