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AMCA News and Discussions

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 03 Mar 2017 10:46

Prasad, do you mean this image?

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby srai » 03 Mar 2017 19:28

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by srai on 03 Mar 2017 19:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Prasad » 03 Mar 2017 19:31

That's the one!

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 05 Mar 2017 22:17

On FBL (and perhaps any of teh newer techs too), I think the fundamental mistake being made is that most people are stuck with the old model.

Nothing against any individual, this is just to make a point, No, the AMCA is not anything like or close to the LCA (as great as the LCA is - yup, I would give anything for that plane, the greatest (for Indian MIC) since motherhood and apple pie).

And, just to provide some background, the following from a 2016 report on the F-35!!!!!

Given the almost unlimited scope of connecting the F-35 to
every system in the battlespace
, Joint Forces Command would need to prioritise connectivity
and bandwidth upgrades for the platforms
that stand to provide the greatest increase combat
power and flexibility
.


That plane had hardly left the paint shop and there was demand to upgrade the "bandwidth".

First, the way we see these machines: the 4th gen is viewed as a plane that fights, while the 5th Gen is viewed as a mathematical model that flies to "fight". A huge part of a 5th gen is networking. About 10 years ago certain AFs had achieved the ability to make a plane a node in a network the moment it attained certain height - unknown to anyone in the plane, a means of increasing the "bandwidth". Today it is a demand. The future it will have to be par for the course. They have tasted the "combat power and flexibility" the above report talks of and like an animal that has tasted blood, are asking for more and more.

The IAF is very much aware of all such progress and WILL have them on their wish list for sure and perhaps on their demand list too.

Dileep,

Two items of interest:

1) The Indian AMCA team, WRT FBL, has been at it since at least 10 years. I for one think it is fairly to very mature. Having said that I have not come across any news item which says that they are sticking to it
2) The Japanese X-2, tech demo, I just found out, is flying around on FBL


I think the problem with the AMCA is "funds". The team has been doing its best under the circumstances, so my thinking is that they are far ahead of teh curve than most of us expect them to be.

For further discussions on the matter perhaps the AMCA thread is more appropriate for FBL

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Cybaru » 06 Mar 2017 01:01

NRao wrote:On FBL (and perhaps any of teh newer techs too), I think the fundamental mistake being made is that most people are stuck with the old model.

Nothing against any individual, this is just to make a point, No, the AMCA is not anything like or close to the LCA (as great as the LCA is - yup, I would give anything for that plane, the greatest (for Indian MIC) since motherhood and apple pie).

And, just to provide some background, the following from a 2016 report on the F-35!!!!!

Given the almost unlimited scope of connecting the F-35 to
every system in the battlespace
, Joint Forces Command would need to prioritise connectivity
and bandwidth upgrades for the platforms
that stand to provide the greatest increase combat
power and flexibility
.


That plane had hardly left the paint shop and there was demand to upgrade the "bandwidth".

First, the way we see these machines: the 4th gen is viewed as a plane that fights, while the 5th Gen is viewed as a mathematical model that flies to "fight". A huge part of a 5th gen is networking. About 10 years ago certain AFs had achieved the ability to make a plane a node in a network the moment it attained certain height - unknown to anyone in the plane, a means of increasing the "bandwidth". Today it is a demand. The future it will have to be par for the course. They have tasted the "combat power and flexibility" the above report talks of and like an animal that has tasted blood, are asking for more and more.

The IAF is very much aware of all such progress and WILL have them on their wish list for sure and perhaps on their demand list too.

Dileep,

Two items of interest:

1) The Indian AMCA team, WRT FBL, has been at it since at least 10 years. I for one think it is fairly to very mature. Having said that I have not come across any news item which says that they are sticking to it
2) The Japanese X-2, tech demo, I just found out, is flying around on FBL


I think the problem with the AMCA is "funds". The team has been doing its best under the circumstances, so my thinking is that they are far ahead of teh curve than most of us expect them to be.

For further discussions on the matter perhaps the AMCA thread is more appropriate for FBL


Yes, this is more appropriate. I am still not clear on what your point on fbl is. For purposes of this discussion let's assume fbl is fully tested and available.

If we replace fbw in Tejas with fbl how will that plane change?

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 06 Mar 2017 01:54

The post/s prior to my mentioning "FBL" were about how much from the LCA can be reused/re-utilized/re-purposed for the AMCA. So, in response to that I mentioned very little.

Coming to your question regarding the LCA, the traditional benefits of a 4th Gen plane: weight, security and maintenance - in that order. I just do not think it will make too much of a diff on the "bandwidth" part of the discussion, but I could be totally wrong.

If you revisit the vid posted by Brar, the lecture (forget by whom) on the F-35, skunk works, etc, in that he mentions two things that have stuck with me: the one pertaining to this discussion is when he mentions how they had to deal with a lag between when the sensor "saw" something and when the pilot "saw" the same thing on his helmet (he talks about the cameras seeing through the floor). This despite a plane with perhaps the largest bandwidth. By the time the "scene" appeared on the visor, the plane had moved substantially - he demos it in the vid, looks very funny.

Think about it. That signal has to move but a few feet or could be yds. And still the pilot, in that short time, faced a false picture. So, potentially, if the pilot was "seeing" an enemy plane right below him (in his visor), in reality that enemy plane could be a Km or more away from that position.

But, there is a lot more to this story. The current networks have built-in authentication, privacy (data meant only for certain people/ranks), healing, etc, etc, etc.

Exciting times.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 06 Mar 2017 06:46

NRao, I doubt the statement "they had been working on it for the past 10 years". We would have heard about it if they did.

For further discussion, let us first define FBL first. Let us define that FBL means using photons instead of electrons on board the aircraft.

As I see it, the following will be the migration path for FBL in general

1. Connection chain of Sensor->Computer->Display:This is the most critical area that demand bandwidth. It begins with computer->display. Then move to Sensor->computer.

2. Photonic Sensors: Sensors that deal with photonic phenomena. This is not about 'communication', but the sensing element itself is a piece of glass where light passing through it gets affected. Of course, the communication medium will also be glass here, since 'why not?'

These are the critical areas that copper can't address. The rest, ie instrumentation and actuation need not even migrate, except for the weight saving and EMP immunity. Since those are flight critical, they will stay with good old trusty copper for a very long time.

From the open source info, we can infer that currently item 1 is being addressed. Some action is going on in item 2, but my take is that it is going to take a lot of work to get something of that kind to fly. It is a good thing that even HAL has started looking at it, with the possibility of their own darling Rambha getting a piece of that wardrobe.

Still... AamKa seems to be under tight wraps. Not sure if they are using LCA Mk2/1A as sand box for the technologies, or they are in a different silo isolated from the world. If it is the latter, that is bad because no one can do these things alone.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Neshant » 06 Mar 2017 07:18

They are only now rushing on the LCA project.

My view is they are trying to get the AMCA going in case the LCA project fails and gets cancelled.

Hence the claim that the AMCA's design is already done and ready to roll - even though there has been zero details revealed on it.
It looks like the AMCA project is being rushed through to keep the existing LCA design team employed in case the IAF shuts down the LCA project due to extreme delays.

They have just one last chance to deliver on the LCA after years of poor project management and numerous missed deadlines.
One of many reasons defense R&D should not be in the govt but rather the private sector.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby srai » 06 Mar 2017 07:21

Private sector ... the savior of all things :wink:

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 06 Mar 2017 08:37

Dileep,

Do not have much for you now. So here is what I have for teh time being. The most appropriate for this topic. There are earlier reports that I need to dig up.

Also, Dr. A. K. Ghosh, the head of the AMCA project, is camera shy. So, yes, besides other reason, he is - per reports - very reluctant to say anything to anyone, just by nature.

Nov, 2010 :: EXCLUSIVE: Official Wishlist of Evolutionary Technologies for India’s 5thGen AMCA

The envisaged changes begin at the very basic — system architecture — and look towards a triplex fly-by-light electro-optic architecture with fiber optic links for signal and data communications, unlike the electric links on the Tejas platform. And unlike centralized architecture on the Tejas, the AMCA proposes to sport a distributed architecture with smart sub-systems. Similarly, unlike the LCA’s centralised digital flight control computer (DFCC), the AMCA could have a distributed system with smart remote units for data communication with sensors and actuators, a system that will necessitate much faster on-board processors.

Next come sensors. The mechanical gyros and accelerometers on the Tejas will need to evolve on the AMCA into fiber optic gyros, ring laser gyros and MEMS gyros. The pressure probes and vanes that make up the air-data sensors will evolve into an optical and flush air data system, and position sensors will be linear/rotary optical encoders. Significantly, actuators — currently electro-hydraulic/direct drive — could be electro-hydrostatic to accrue substantive weight savings on the AMCA. Sensor fusion for an overarching situation picture goes without saying.

The AMCA could feature highly evolved integrated control laws for flight, propulsion, braking, nose wheel steer and fuel management and adaptive neural networks for fault detection, identification and control law reconfiguration.

I’m leaving out stealth from this piece, as I already covered it here in June, including internal weapons bays. And I’ve reported on the AMCA radar here.

Unlike the Tejas, which features an avionics systems architecture based on functionality-based individual computer systems connected on MIL-STD-1553B buses and RS 422 links, the AMCA’s avionics systems architecture will feature a central computational system connected internally and externally on an optic fiber channel by means of multiport connectivity switching modules. In such a system, functionality will be mapped on resourcred optimally and reallocated when faults occur. At least, that’s the idea. Data communications on the AMCA’s processing modules will be through a high-speed fiber channel bus, IEEE-1394B-STD. The connectivities will be switched by means of a multiport switching matrix, with data speeds of 400MB/second.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 06 Mar 2017 09:23

IEEE-1394B-STD? Isn't that firewire 800MB/s? Interesting...

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 06 Mar 2017 09:40

BTW, if that is not enough Oct, 2008 :: The FGFA conundrum explained

The quadruplex fly-by-light flight control system (yes, the IAF has insisted on it, while the Russian version of the MFS/FGFA will use fly-by-wire flight controls) will be jointly developed by the DRDO and Embraer, while potential suppliers of active phased-array radars include THALES of France, Israel Aerospace Industries, Phazotron JSC, Ericsson Microwave Systems, and EADS.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Cybaru » 06 Mar 2017 10:30

Dileep wrote:IEEE-1394B-STD? Isn't that firewire 800MB/s? Interesting...


Yeah, used on f35.

Nrao,

There is no requirement of having FBL to get on 1394B. Both 1394B and 1553 can co exist together. Regular tested FBW can live on the Mil1553 or Mil 1773 or Mil E1553B. High bandwidth stuff can live off the other bus.

It really makes no difference if FBW or FBL is used. The CLAW rules will remain same. The processor and other stuff won't be markedly different.

Most of 1394B is copper. I have searched and have not found any indication that they are using the optical 1394B. All documentation seems to point to copper.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 06 Mar 2017 11:47

1394B have fiber PHY defined, upto 3.2 Gbps. Not sure if F-35 uses that option. As I can gather, F-35 uses copper based 400Mbps links.

I haven't heard anything about the use of 1394 in xCA programme anywhere. Is that a real choice, or just an option sometimes considered.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 06 Mar 2017 11:51

Cybaru, you are focusing only the "fly" part, ie the flight computer getting inputs and generating control outputs. That will essentially remain the same, whether the information comes over glass or copper. It is the 'fight' part that will have major change, because of the additional bandwidth and sensor possibilities.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Cybaru » 06 Mar 2017 12:27

Dileep wrote:Cybaru, you are focusing only the "fly" part, ie the flight computer getting inputs and generating control outputs. That will essentially remain the same, whether the information comes over glass or copper. It is the 'fight' part that will have major change, because of the additional bandwidth and sensor possibilities.


The flight part will change because of underlying physical layer will permit such a change and that wouldn't have been possible on copper? Can you explain further?

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby ragupta » 06 Mar 2017 21:05

40 to 200Gbs capability available over fiber, infiniband.
10GB ethernet available over copper and fiber for a long time.
40Gb ethernet available now. mostly over fiber.

The problem was not the bandwidth over wire/fiber, but the actual transmit and receive module capability.
Last edited by ragupta on 06 Mar 2017 22:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 06 Mar 2017 21:19

Cybaru wrote:
Dileep wrote:Cybaru, you are focusing only the "fly" part, ie the flight computer getting inputs and generating control outputs. That will essentially remain the same, whether the information comes over glass or copper. It is the 'fight' part that will have major change, because of the additional bandwidth and sensor possibilities.


The flight part will change because of underlying physical layer will permit such a change and that wouldn't have been possible on copper? Can you explain further?


Will give you an example. If you want to fuse FLIR, FCR and SAR together on the same HUD, while marking out your bomb target as well as the four Thandaars trying to buzz you at the same time, you need fiber.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 06 Mar 2017 21:46

There are atleast two variants of 40gbps over copper twisted pair and one for 25gbps good for tens of meters. Copper is not limiting factor in a small distance like a plane.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Prasad » 06 Mar 2017 22:43

The AMCA video at AI had a shot of the plane having fibre backbone I think.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 06 Mar 2017 23:01

While puttering around the web, came across the following:

Cons for a wire (in order of concern):

* Arcing and tracking arcs
* Flammability
* Toxicity
* Smoke


* wire-frame aberasion
* cut-thru at rated temp (????)
* wire-wire aberasion

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 07 Mar 2017 06:56

Singha wrote:There are atleast two variants of 40gbps over copper twisted pair and one for 25gbps good for tens of meters. Copper is not limiting factor in a small distance like a plane.


Problems with high speed copper:

1. Needs 8 'thick' and 'heavy' conductors (compared to a thin strand of glass)
2. Sensitive to noise and interference, ie high BER.
3. More complex electronics == less reliability.
4. Tough to get IP Blocks (because of the unbelievably complex modulation schemes. Fiber is still on/off keying at all data rates). Use of COTS chipsets is a problem, since need to support very long term.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 07 Mar 2017 07:16

There are really good articles on wired solutions, over the years, in aviation. One claims that the DC-10 had 485 kgs of material just to prevent damage to the harnesses!! That is in addition to the weight of the wires itself. I am still trying to get info on what "wire" would contribute to the weight of a F-16 (as an example).

On the flip side, I have come across a couple of test articles, one business jet and the Japanese X-2 test plane that have used light/optics in actual flight. No idea why it is so low.

But, going forward, the demand for more bandwidth will only grow. Fusion by itself will place a huge demand on the network.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2017 07:32

I think copper 40gbps is being pushed as a cheap datacenter tech ie lakhs of ports scale as it saves the cost of optical modules at both ends. I heard at 100gbps a significant fraction of cost on a switch or router is the optical modules which is eaten by those oem . So certain sections in netz are pushing to self develop the next gen of optics rather than give money away in tough times and hv less control on i.p

For aircraft the cost issue is not relevant.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 07 Mar 2017 08:02

I was expecting a July start date, but ...............not complaining:

AWST, subscription article.

India’s AMCA Fighter To Enter Preliminary Design

Preliminary design of India’s proposed Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will begin in March, with a target of flying the aircraft in 2024 and making it ready for service as early as 2030. As the defense ministry’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) awaits approval for full-scale development, an upgraded version of the General Electric F414 powerplant has become the likely choice for the twin-engine indigenous fighter. “We have completed the configurations and the ...


Nice!!!

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 09 Mar 2017 01:56

Aeromag,

Page 45:

Could you talk about NAL’s role
in Advanced Medium Combat
Aircraft programme of ADA?


CSIR-NAL has contributed to AMCA
programme of ADA in the areas of
structural airframe design and analysis,
developing a low RCS full scale 8.3m
serpentine CFRP air intake duct
,
preliminary design of main landing gear
(MLG) and a basic flight simulator for
AMCA with flight controller, subsystems
and sensor models
. The expertise of
the laboratory will be fully provided for
futures requirement of the Programme.


Like I have stated, the AMCA is a rather mature project - already.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 09 Mar 2017 02:23

The same Aeromag issue has a good interview with ADA Chief Cmdr (retd.) Balaji. I really hope that he gets an extension and is able to see the LCA Mk2 programs for the IAF and IN to fruition.

In the interview, he makes a clear comparison between the LCA and JF-17 and states that -

"Tejas is intended to replace ageing fleet of MIG-21 aircraft of IAF. It may be mentioned that the aircraft is far superior to MiG-21 in all aspects. Further, it is far ahead in terms of technologies and performance when compared to JF-17 and at par with Gripen.


also this

And Tejas EW suite has been evaluated in realistic conditions at the Electronic warfare range. With FOC features of Air to Air refuelling, Beyond Visual
Range (BVR) missiles and Close Combat Missile (CCM) integrated, Gun, Carefree manoeuvring, etc., Tejas is expected to be a true Air superiority and Air defence weapon of war, light, agile and manoeuvrable.



Regarding production rates

HAL has drawn the following likely delivery schedules for 20 aircraft in LCA AF Mk1 (IOC) configuration, 20 aircraft in LCA AF Mk1 (FOC) configuration and 83 aircraft in LCA AF Mk-1A configuration. Production Schedule is like this: 20 aircraft IOC Standard & 4 aircraft FOC Standard are
targeted to be delivered by 2018-2019 at the production rate of eight aircraft in an year in 2017-18 and 12 aircraft in an year in 2018-19.

Remaining 16 FOC Standard aircraft are targeted to be delivered by 2019-2020. 83 LCA AF Mk1A standard Production will commence from 2020-21 with a Production Rate of 16 aircraft in a year.


on the Naval LCA

LCA Navy Mk1 demonstrated following Naval Specific and other Technologies:
a. Supersonic Flight achieved on both LCA Navy Mk1 aircraft
b. Maiden Ski-Jump was successfully demonstrated by LCA Navy Trainer (NP1) followed by 12 Ski-Jumps with R73 missiles and Night Ski Jump
c. Hot refuelling is demonstrated and a record flying of 3 hour duration had been achieved in one sortie
d. In-Flight Jettisoning has been demonstrated
e. Preparations towards Arrester Recovery are in process.
f. Weapon & Sensor testing has been initiated
A Naval standard Structural Test Specimen (STS) has been built and integrated with the Main Airframe Structural Test (MAST) rig. Testing towards clearance for Carrier Compatibility Tests (CCT) on aircraft has been completed.



on the Kaveri integration and flight testing

There is a discussion to integrate and flight test an improved version of the Kaveri engine in one of the LCA prototypes. Towards this, a study has been initiated to check the various interfaces like structural, systems, software, etc., When the engine is made available, integration will be carried out for testing.
Last edited by Kartik on 09 Mar 2017 02:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Cybaru » 09 Mar 2017 05:17

Thanks for posting the relevant bits Kartik.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby srai » 09 Mar 2017 08:45

Kartik wrote:...
on the Naval LCA

LCA Navy Mk1 demonstrated following Naval Specific and other Technologies:
...
c. Hot refuelling is demonstrated and a record flying of 3 hour duration had been achieved in one sortie
...



...


Wonder how many km it covered in that 3 hour sortie?

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby ranjan.rao » 09 Mar 2017 09:36

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-sukhoi-mistake-india-to-go-for-russian-5th-gen-fighter-only-with-full-tech-transfer/articleshow/57546519.cms

NEW DELHI: India will go in for the multi-billion dollar joint development and production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with Russia only if there is full-scale transfer of technology as well as "benefits" for the indigenous effort to build a futuristic stealth fighter.
Defence ministry sources say this decision has been taken at the "highest levels" in order to "not repeat the mistakes" of the entire Sukhoi-30MKI jet acquisition programme from Russia, which cost India Rs 55,717 crore without any tangible help in developing indigenous fighter-manufacturing capabilities.
"Though bulk of the 272 Sukhois (240 inducted till now) contracted from Russia have been made by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL), they have been basically assembled here with imported knocked-down kits. HAL still cannot manufacture the Sukhois on its own," said a source. A HAL-made Sukhoi (around Rs 450 crore) also costs Rs 100 crore more than the price of the same jet imported from Russia.
So, despite Russian pressure to ink the long-pending final R&D contract for the FGFA, India now wants to know whether it will get good value for the estimated $25 billion it will spend to induct 127 of these single-seat jets. The two countries, incidentally, had inked the FGFA inter-governmental agreement way back in 2007, which was followed by a $295 million preliminary design contract in 2010 before the negotiations stalled.
India has now laid down two essential prerequisites for the FGFA project, apart from examining its entire cost-effectiveness. One, there should be extensive technology transfer, including the "source codes", to ensure India can in the future upgrade the fighter with integration of new weapons on its own. Two, it should directly help the indigenous FGFA project called the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), the preliminary design work for which is now under way, as was earlier reported by TOI.
"This is mandatory. A high-level committee headed by an Air Marshal from IAF, which includes an IIT Kanpur professor and former chiefs of HAL and National Aerospace Laboratories,[Is it Prodyut? Who was asking for him to be included] is examining all these aspects. The government will take a call after the report is submitted in April," said the source.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 09 Mar 2017 10:00

^^^So, finally GOI is looking at FGFA as a holistic project. And not simply as another 'screwdriver' project for HAL. It is absolutely ridiculous that a country is looking to develop AMCA but the R&D establishment has no say or stake in a project like FGFA. Which is being led by the country's sole a/c manufacturer. It is exactly such fragmented nature of deal making which has hurt us in the past. In terms of money, exactness of contracts and leveraging them for genuine technology transfer.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Vivek K » 09 Mar 2017 10:30

India needs to produce 300-500 LCA Mk1/1A/2 variants. Stay the course, invest brains and money in kaveri and cross the final tech barrier and produce the AMCA. No point in saving Russian industry through the Pak-FA waste.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby srai » 09 Mar 2017 11:26

I doubt Russia will give India that much. This is a dead-end as far as I see it. Five-years from now, India will still be negotiating with Russia on its work share and ToT.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 10 Mar 2017 11:23

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Rishi Verma » 10 Mar 2017 11:36

Dileep wrote:
Cybaru wrote:
The flight part will change because of underlying physical layer will permit such a change and that wouldn't have been possible on copper? Can you explain further?


Will give you an example. If you want to fuse FLIR, FCR and SAR together on the same HUD, while marking out your bomb target as well as the four Thandaars trying to buzz you at the same time, you need fiber.


This is incorrect. Projecting final result on HUD has nothing whatsoever to do with the BW of the fiber. HUD screen size and frame rates determine how quickly the graphics get updated on any screen. Even then the graphics on HUD is kept to a minimum with minimum required change in information so as not to make the pilot dizzy with information. Fiber BW is needed only to move data around from sensors to CPU and higher the BW the better. But after all the clutter is processed and there is something to display then that info only is sent to the display memory which is read out at pixel clock, and for an HUD that clock speed is around 40MHz.

And ever increasing BW is needed because the seeker/sensor (the analogue part) is now integrated with higher precision ADCs. I used to design 6-bit ADC for an FLIR and was considered adequate, now that part alone is quantized at 24-bits, resulting in 4x BW requirement on sensor to CPU bus.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 10 Mar 2017 16:54

RV, all I can say here is, you can't do without fiber the way things are being planned. So, fiber is going to be there in all xCA platforms.

Now, can't one architect a system using copper? Sure!! Only problem will be the extra weight and a bit less reliability.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 20 Mar 2017 07:27

Data point:


GE's Pearson at AI 17.

https://youtu.be/cMz7QdNK75c?t=4490

Mentions and shows a slide on GE F414 for AMCA.

As I had speculated GE Bangaluru design division, the Welch Center, is spear heading this effort to uprate the F414 by 10%. This arrangement should meet the DTTI requirements. Pearson, in his talk, does mention DTTI.

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 22 Mar 2017 23:24

Found a slide from 2015, showing some of the stealth aspects of the AMCA under consideration (then?):

Image

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 22 Mar 2017 23:41

Infra red signature.
Heat shields around the engines?
Are they going to mix cold air with the exhaust? or an outer layer of cold air from the engine all around the exhaust like in the F-22?
I suppose the air intake and leading edges also heat up some

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Re: AMCA News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 31 Mar 2017 03:09

An article from 2012, that provides some insight about stealth expectations in Indian crafts.

India Explores Low-Observable Aircraft Technologies


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