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Transport Aircraft for IAF

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Bheeshma » 20 Mar 2017 11:18

Why would Ukraine agree to such a deal ? If it goes to HAl then expect screwdriver giri again.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Indranil » 20 Mar 2017 11:27

How many will screwdriver An-132. It was brought to light by the Saudis financing it with Taqnia. Why would they let it go? Anyways, this is too close to the 295s. For the same reason, Il-114s don't make sense. HAL should try the medium 20-40 Ton freighters and RTAs.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby srai » 20 Mar 2017 16:35

Austin wrote:...

Atleast with An-132 we might have a chance to get the design/tot and lic to build it in India.


Don't count on JVs too much. Look what has happened to the MTA.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby putnanja » 20 Mar 2017 16:59

We still don't have the full ToT for SU-30MKIs or for T-90s. Its just a little more than screwdrivergiri. In fact, many learnings of Hawk were applied to LCA and now to HTT-40, like the processes and such, which means India at least gained something on the manufacturing side. Learnings for license building Russian items seems more like what not to do than what to do better.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2017 23:06

Indian Air Force to acquire at least 60 Airbus C-295 transport aircraft
http://indianewengland.com/2017/03/indi ... -aircraft/

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby JTull » 24 Mar 2017 23:55


Austin
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Austin » 25 Mar 2017 00:03

Did C-295 compete with other types in its class to win out right or this was single vendor approach ? US had offered any options , I recollect ATR-72 was also offered.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Indranil » 25 Mar 2017 01:54

Main opponent was the C-27J Spartan. Proposals from Ilyushin and Antonov came and went.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby ranjan.rao » 25 Mar 2017 02:49

Regarding the C295: The total no.s built so far is 136; that is across 15 countries; and our initial order is close to half of it; orders may go up in future once Tatas start producing it

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Aditya G » 25 Mar 2017 03:38

I like C-295 because the base aircraft has several variants including AEW and MR.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby srai » 25 Mar 2017 09:27

IMO, C-295 is a good choice. Mature product with lots of variants. If Indian armed forces and paramilitaries standardize on it, there would be more than 200 units on order.

Transport, MEDEVAC, VIP, Civil
Image
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AEW&C
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Gunship
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ASW & SAR
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Tanker
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Firefighter
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SIGINT
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby abhik » 25 Mar 2017 21:09

AFAIK this is a single vendor contest, C-27J could not compete because the AW chopper scam, not sure about the Russian and Ukrainian planes. So we don't really know if we are getting the best in terms of price and/or know-how. If the aim was to support an alternative aircraft manufacturer to HAL then the tender should have based the selection on which proposal has the best transfer of know-how in the relevant areas and what % of work gets done here. For example why should the first 14 be imported, How did they come up with that number? May be some one would have offered all 60 to be assembled/manufactured right here. But I doubt the MoD will squeeze much out of the vendor, it might basically be a free lunch for Airbus/Tata.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby srai » 26 Mar 2017 06:29

^^^

Competitive bidding/selection process sounds good on paper but doesn't necessarily get the results you are describing. Look what happened to the MMRCA process where the Rafale came out the winner. The lesson there is that no country will part with the know-how's of their critical technologies and will make costs so prohibitively expensive in order to deter their transfer. Besides, a competitive process in India takes a very long time--a decade plus. Better approach is G-2-G deals where strategic goals can be aligned.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Rakesh » 28 Mar 2017 04:44

***NEWS FLASH***

India-Russia Aircraft Deal Terminated
http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/india-ru ... erminated/

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Bheeshma » 28 Mar 2017 08:51

Good riddance. I was not aware the An-32 payload had been increased to 7.5 tons. That is good news. Hopefully C-295 or RTA variant can replace the An-32 and HS-748 in future.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Philip » 29 Mar 2017 11:23

The C-295 is a good choice,but there should be a guarantee that at least 100+ aircraft will be built at home by Tatas.The first 12/16 should be immediately acquired from the OEM ,as this bird will have to part task the role of the now cancelled MTA which was jet powered as well. It appears that HAL wasn't interested in it.Is the HAL tail wagging the IAF "dog" ,what? In future,if DPSUs shy away from good JV offers,they should be thrown open to the pvt. sector. Unless there is competition between the pvt.sector and the DPSUs,we will never get a fair deal and the taxpayer's money will continue to be squandered.

With specialist variants,the requirement could easily be between 150-200. The aircraft will also be an excellent bird for civvy ops as a regional airliner,better than the DO-228.Now this deal was finalised way back in May 2015! Commercial negotiations are to take place only now.Should it really take that long to seal a deal after a decision has been made to acquire it? Mr.Modi,you may perhaps also need the AAP broom to cleanse the Augean stables of the MOD that is stifling the defence and security acquisition process of the nation.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Neshant » 08 May 2017 02:04

Meanwhile, China's C919 which will compete against Boeing 737 and Airbus 320 has made its maiden test flight.

Its built to US regulatory aerospace standards so it will get global acceptance for its sale.

Just like the 737, it can be outfitted for military purposes.

Its a regional passenger airliner for now but a larger version that can compete against Boeing 777 is already in the works.

They are also pouring a lot of money into engine research to challenge GE, Pratt & Whitney, Rolls Royce on their engine manufacturing monopoly down the road.

India is falling behind on all fronts.

A plan is urgently needed to chart a course for domestic development of transport aircraft.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Philip » 08 May 2017 13:04

There was a superb docu on the new A-350 DXB aircraft from Airbus on TV 5 Monde. 638 on TataSky. Pl ck it out if it is repeated.
It is incredible how sophisticated a civilian aircraft plant has to be and how Airbus obtains its components from sev. EU nations using 6 XXX Beluga aircraft to deliver wings,fuselages,tails,engines,etc. to Toulose for final assembly. Composite material manufacture,etc.,etc.

For India to master that on its own will take sev. decades. What China cleverly did was to first obtain an A-320 prod. line form France given its huge requirements and then build upon that experience to design its own bird. When we've ordered around 1000 single-aisle aircraft for our pvt. players from Airbus/Boeing,why did we not set up a similar plant a decade ago? Flipping through old reports, I saw Indigo order 250 aircraft! With such massive orders,why have we kept silent? WE could've easily in the past picked up Dornier for a song as we're the only global manufacturer,but have to kowtow to RuAG instead. The DO-328 would've been a fine bird built in India for the regional requirement.

Therefore,in the final analysis,we have not to "reinvent the wheel",but jump start decades by tying up with a firang entity. The Western majors won't oblige,China isn't an option which leaves us with two sources which can both be exercised. Russia is building the Sukhoi-100,in prod. and which has good sales,firang western engines,and Ilyushin a larger civvy bird. The other parallel option is teaming up with Embraer of Brazil. They've done v.well on their won thus far. We're already using their small jets for the desi AEW bird,and the EMB-90 series which has been used by some smaller airlines was v.well recd. Unfortunately,these airlines have had fin. problems and have stopped ops. Otherwise,we would've seen more EMBs in our skies.
Once we've embarked upon manufacturing proven single-aisle 100/200 seater birds,we can then explore larger aircraft. The requirement for suhc aircraft will be over 1000 for the next decade. No time to lose.

C-295 excellent choice,one should order it in bulk with sev. variants for AEW,MRP,etc. Perfect for High Himalaya ops.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby JTull » 14 Jun 2017 13:16

Talks on for replacement of IAF’s Avro aircraft with Airbus C295W

MUMBAI, JUNE 13:
Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL) of the Tata Group and Airbus Defence and Space are inching closer to securing a contract to replace the Indian Air Force’s fleet of 56 Avro aircraft with the C295W military transport aircraft.

Even as negotiations for the $1.8 billion purchase of the C295W are in the final stages, sources indicated that a defence programme between India and Russia to manufacture a new military transport aircraft for the Indian and Russian air forces has effectively been shelved.

Joint venture grounded

Almost seven years after the preliminary nod was given to the Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA) programme under a joint venture between Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), the project to co-develop a new transport plane has been stalled due to “disagreements over design configurations and issues related to the PD-14M turbofan engine,” sources said.

Though Russia continues to be in talks with India to jointly produce other helicopters, military ships and aircraft, the decision to terminate the Indo-Russian MTA programme has “practically opened the doors to begin the C295W negotiations.”

C295W advantages

The C295W is the latest variant of the C295 military transport aircraft, and is being manufactured by Airbus Defence and Space. The new aircraft is equipped with winglets to transport more payload over a longer distance, and more powerful engines, to deliver improved performance than its predecessor.

Following the completion of the field evaluation trials of the aircraft in India last year, several more “evaluatory steps and trials” have been undertaken by TASL and Airbus to fulfil the criteria under the defence procurement system. Sources added that a high level of indigenisation would also mark the new contract. The 2013 tender detailed “the import of 16 C295s and to build the remaining 40 locally. In accordance with the tender, 24 of the 40 aircraft are to be imported in kit form for local assembly and include around 30 per cent indigenous content. This will double in the remaining 16 platforms,” the sources said.

When contacted, both TASL and Airbus declined to reveal the current status of negotiations.

Scope for more deals

Sources pointed out that since the field evaluation trials were over, “it would help the companies bag further contracts with the Indian Navy, Coast Guard, paramilitary and other civilian agencies that have shown interest.”

Given that the C295 is available in several configurations, including Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) version and an Airborne Early Warning (AEW&C) version, a variant is expected to be offered for the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard. About 70 to 90 aircraft are needed by the armed forces and paramilitary organisations such as the Border Security Force (BSF) and CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force).

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby srai » 14 Jun 2017 18:15

^^^
...
Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL) of the Tata Group and Airbus Defence and Space are inching closer to securing a contract to replace the Indian Air Force’s fleet of 56 Avro aircraft with the C295W military transport aircraft.
...
The 2013 tender detailed “the import of 16 C295s and to build the remaining 40 locally. In accordance with the tender, 24 of the 40 aircraft are to be imported in kit form for local assembly and include around 30 per cent indigenous content. This will double in the remaining 16 platforms,” the sources said.
...
Given that the C295 is available in several configurations, including Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) version and an Airborne Early Warning (AEW&C) version, a variant is expected to be offered for the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard. About 70 to 90 aircraft are needed by the armed forces and paramilitary organisations such as the Border Security Force (BSF) and CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force).

Once that last stage occurs (60% indigenous), India better be ordering many more C295s to continue its gain. 56 planes are too little for proper industrial build up and its sustenance. Apart from the IN, CG and various paramilitaries, the IAF itself should lump orders for the replacement of its 100+ An-32s. Total of around 200 units. Increase indigenous (locally manufactured) content over 60%. This one will create a viable second aviation corporation in India.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Philip » 16 Jun 2017 19:22

Excellent review of the upgraded IL-76s now being delivered to the RuAF ,same platform for our extra AWACS Phalcons and IL-78 tankers should they be selected.
Max 60t payload range 4000km,
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... ft-russia/

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Karthik S » 16 Jun 2017 19:30

Unless dimensions have increased, won't be of much use to us to carry tanks. We really missed out on additional C 17s.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Philip » 17 Jun 2017 12:49

Yes, we did miss out on buying more C-17s.After we'd bought them,I warned about the fact of plant/line closure and that in future,either second-hand C-17s if available,or new IL-76 upgraded transports would be our only options. We missed the boat "as per (MOD) usual",when a timely decision to buy around 4 more could've been made.

Legacy IL-76s inducted T-72 tanks into Jaffna Sri Lanka.two decades ago.Russian thoughts on developing even larger transports so that new heavy eqpt. MBTs like the Armata,etc. can be carried.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... esign-work
Yermak vs Il-476
Work is progressing on a new heavy-lift Ru transport called the "Yermak".However,there appears to be debate within Russia as to which direction to follow,.

But recently, Ilyushin general manager Sergei Velmozhkin told Russian TV that “the Il-106, a new airlifter being developed in Russia, shall be able to land on unpaved runways…this machine is going to be huge, [able to carry] a payload of 80 to 100 tons. Unlike previous designs, it shall be able to land on unprepared runways.” He said that the new aircraft was in the An-124 class.
However, some observers remain skeptical about the PAK TA project. Deputy head of the Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade (TsAMTO) Vladimir Shvarev, in comments made to the Interpolit magazine, said that “all available resources should be focused on the production of new Il-476 aircraft.”

A scale model of the Il-106 appeared briefly at Ilyushin stands during airshows a quarter century ago. It revealed a classic ramp-airlifter design bearing resemblance to the Il-76 and An-124, but with winglets and a relatively wider and shorter fuselage. With a length of 58 meters (190 feet), and a wingspan of nearly 60 meters 197 feet], the Il-106 would have a maximum takeoff weight of 258 metric tons (569,000 pounds), and an empty weight of 135 metric tons (298,000 pounds). Cruise speed would be 820-850 km/h [442-460kt], and typical range would be 5,000 km (2,700nm). Field performance: takeoff and landing lengths between 1,400 and 1,550 meters (4,600 to 5,100 feet). The six-meter-wide cargo cabin (about 20 feet) would have a length of 34 meters (111.5 ft) and height of 4.6 meters (15 feet).

Another report said:
“That aircraft is capable of transporting cargoes of 80 tons at a cruising speed of 770-850 kph to a distance of up to 5,000 km. In other words, it is an aircraft with medium cargo capacity,” said Shvarev. “For reference, the Ukrainian Antonov An-225 Mriya cargo aircraft is capable of carrying 220 tons, or four T-72 tanks. However, the Il-76 is capable of carrying only one T-72 tank, while to transport a T-90 tank, some of its assembly units will have to be removed,” he said.

“Given that the T-14 Armata tank will weigh at least 60 tons when fitted with a full dynamic protection system, transporting 1.5 tanks by medium military transport aircraft and two tanks on a heavy one is not economically viable. Yet a project for an aircraft with ultra-large cargo capacity is not on the cards, it is a matter for a very distant future,” said Shvarev.]

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby JTull » 17 Jun 2017 13:10

Mods pls notice.

This shameless peddling of Russie wares is getting tiresome. As soon as there is a news about any acquisition program, this kind of thing starts. Same thing happened in the P-75 thread. Also in Naval Aviation thread. Always the same theme - India or Indian Services don't know anything, don't think for yourself, I told you so and so, let Ruskies teach you a thing or two.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Pratyush » 17 Jun 2017 14:54

There is an ignore option on the forum, use it.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Karan M » 17 Jun 2017 15:12

JTull wrote:Mods pls notice.

This shameless peddling of Russie wares is getting tiresome. As soon as there is a news about any acquisition program, this kind of thing starts. Same thing happened in the P-75 thread. Also in Naval Aviation thread. Always the same theme - India or Indian Services don't know anything, don't think for yourself, I told you so and so, let Ruskies teach you a thing or two.



+108

I wonder whether this chap has a direct benefit in doing all this.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby JTull » 17 Jun 2017 15:20

Pratyush wrote:There is an ignore option on the forum, use it.


Personally, I come to the forum to get news and understand the implications from knowledgeable members. My complaint is about this behaviour that aims is to derail any useful discussion.
If this can't be dealt with then I'd be happy to sign off after 20 years on this website. It would certainly add some time to my other pursuits.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Cosmo_R » 17 Jun 2017 18:12

There used to be a guy from 'Wai' (Shankar??) who was even more pro Russkie.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Cosmo_R » 17 Jun 2017 18:14

Pratyush wrote:There is an ignore option on the forum, use it.


Exactly. It will also help if people stop quoting such parties.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Cosmo_R » 17 Jun 2017 18:17

Karthik S wrote:Unless dimensions have increased, won't be of much use to us to carry tanks. We really missed out on additional C 17s.


You may remember how vehemently many on BRF opposed theC-17s :)

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Kartik » 20 Jun 2017 23:57

the An-132 had been originally offered to India by Antonov with L&T as its local partner, as a HS-748 Avro replacement and fit the bill as a possible An-32 replacement as well. India didn't show any interest in the type and now it has been brought to Paris Air Show as a JV between Ukraine and Saudi Arabia. Eventually it seems that we're going in for the Airbus TASL C-295. But, looking at what this particular JV has brought for Saudi Arabia, we may have missed out on an opportunity to actually participate in the development of an aircraft, with a private firm (L&T) gaining useful experience in the design and testing apart from the manufacturing.


Ukraine is reportedly trying to profit from the impasse by offering the An-132 that it is developing with some other countries. The An-132 has a payload capacity of 9.2 tonnes. It is powered by Pratt & Whitney’s PW150A turboprop engines which come with FADEC and consume 25 per cent to 40 per cent less fuel than An-32 engines. However, the IAF’s recent experience with Ukraine has been far from satisfactory due to the non-availability of critically needed components for the An-32 upgrade.


link to article

and this

In May 2013, the MoD had issued a global tender —called a “request for proposals” or RfP — to original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), including US firms, Boeing and Lockheed Martin; European multinational Airbus Defence & Space; Antonov of Ukraine; Swedish company Saab; Ilyushin of Russia; and Italian company, Alenia Aerom-acchi. These OEMs are required to partner an Indian private company to build 40 aircraft in the country, after delivering the first 16 off-the-shelf, all within eight years.

Yet, for various reasons, only one OEM has bid. Among those left out is Antonov, of Ukraine, which had partnered Larsen & Toubro (L&T) in a proposal to build the An-132 aircraft in India. However, political turmoil in Ukraine, following Russia’s annexation of Crimea, has stalled its bid.

In August, in a major government reshuffle in Kiev, Antonov was moved from under the charge of Ukraine’s industry ministry and placed under the ministry of finance. The IAF rejected Antonov’s request for more time to let its new ministry clear its bid.

On August 25, Ukraine called a snap election, which was eventually held on October 26. On October 20, with Kiev in the throes of electioneering, Antonov wrote again to the IAF, asking for more time. With that request turned down, Antonov has not bid.


Paris Air Show - An-132 draws on long history, opens new international cooperation

Image

One of this year’s Paris debutants has a familiar look, but is an almost entirely new aircraft, albeit one developed from a long pedigree of light transport aircraft.

The Antonov An-132D has gone from drawing board to international air display in remarkably quick time. It was revealed at Le Bourget in 2015 and the An-132D demonstrator flew at Kiev on 31 March this year. The An-132 is a joint venture between Ukraine’s Antonov and Saudi partners King Abdulaziz City of Science and Industry (KACST) and Taqnia Aeronautics Company. Derived from the An-32 of 1976 (itself a development of the An-24 of 1955), the An-132 has been significantly modernised and Westernised. Its engines are Pratt & Whitney Canada PW150A turboprops driving six-bladed Dowty R408 propellers. The two-person cockpit features Honeywell Primus Epic 2.0 avionics. Other Western suppliers include Liebherr and Crouzet. Although the fuselage cross-section is the same as the venerable An-32, the only common component carried over from the An-26/32 family is the tail ramp.

The An-132 has a MTOW of 31.5t, giving an increase in payload to 9.5t from 7t on the An-32. The new engines and propellers give improved hot and high performance, allowing operation on runways up to 4,000m altitude and improving fuel performance. The flight from Kiev to Le Bourget used only 900kg of fuel, says Dr Alexander Los, head of Antonov’s design organisation.

Saudi Arabia requires up to 80 An-132s, but whether for the Royal Saudi Air Force, the National Guard or both has not been revealed. Although Ukraine has not committed to any orders, the aircraft would appear to have significant export prospects. Speaking at Le Bourget, Gen Ali of the RSAF said: “Today we have been approached by so many countries who would like to purchase [An-132] cargo and special mission aircraft”. Electronic warfare, firefighting and maritime patrol versions have been proposed although not yet funded.

Dr Khaled Alhussain, the general director of the Office of Special Programmes at KACST, says the driving factors of the An-132’s design have been fuel consumption and integration of digital avionics. Two teams of engineers have been working on the design, one in Kiev and one in Saudi Arabia, and 50 Saudi engineers have graduated from Antonov’s technical school. Up to 150 Saudi engineers will eventually be involved in the project.

A second aircraft, which will be the An-132 series prototype, will fly within 18 months. “The programme schedule is very tight. There is not even time for a vacation,” says Antonov’s Los. After certification, the production phase will begin. Initially aircraft will be built in Kiev from parts made in both Ukraine and Saudi Arabia. Saudi-made parts will account for 18% of the airframe, mainly composites. The second phase, beginning in 2021, will see some aircraft assembled in Saudi Arabia, the proportion depending on profit, says Alhussain.

Antonov and its Saudi partners are discussing future co-operation in aircraft development and assembly. At Le Bourget in 2015 Antonov also unveiled the An-188, essentially a turbofan version of the An-70 turboprop freighter, of which two were built. Little has been heard of the An-188 since, but Los says it is one of the future products under consideration for joint development with Saudi Arabia as part of the oil giant's Vision 2020 plan to replace fossil fuel-based industry with high technology. The An-132 project represents about 40% of Vision 2020 investment to date.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Eric Leiderman » 21 Jun 2017 10:19

The C295s is a platform that is in service now with many variants. even though both the C295s and An-132D have comparable payloads and engines etc.
The cost factor might be higher for the 295 (and I am guessing as I do not know comparable costs) The time factor evens it out. Also how far down the line are we as far as delivery goes even if we start negotiating today for a comparable deal? We have fantastic neighbours and we need to be strong fast.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby deejay » 21 Jun 2017 10:59

60 C295 for IAF, 07 for BSF, X Nos for IN and Y Nos for CG. There are some more. Lead is with IAF. The contract with IAF will be template for others.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Cybaru » 21 Jun 2017 11:05

All the different payload types and modifications have been tested on C295. Qualifying AEW/ASW/Gunship/Medivac/Transport/SAR will take AN132 few billions and a decade and half. It is good enough and plenty awesome. Get on with life.. There will always be something shiny around the corner.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Bala Vignesh » 23 Jun 2017 15:04

deejay wrote:60 C295 for IAF, 07 for BSF, X Nos for IN and Y Nos for CG. There are some more. Lead is with IAF. The contract with IAF will be template for others.

IIRC, CG had a documented requirement for 6 that the DRDO wants to make 19, as per Shiv aroor.

deejay
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby deejay » 24 Jun 2017 08:59

Bala Vignesh wrote:
deejay wrote:60 C295 for IAF, 07 for BSF, X Nos for IN and Y Nos for CG. There are some more. Lead is with IAF. The contract with IAF will be template for others.

IIRC, CG had a documented requirement for 6 that the DRDO wants to make 19, as per Shiv aroor.


I think you are right about CG Nos. I see MHA buying some more for ITBP and CRPF troop movement needs. Other prospect could be NDRF.

The RCS scheme could drive some civil demand too if they are ready to sell to the civilian market.

vasu raya
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby vasu raya » 24 Jun 2017 23:09

sometime back the weather department was asking for some C-130s ala US style Hurricane hunters, maybe this plane can fill that need if not drones

Philip
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Philip » 25 Jun 2017 13:19

Astonishing that some "can't see the wood for the trees".Russia bashing ad nauseum without studying the reality of the situ.When the C-17 has ceased production,no magic wand will get the IAF new ones,only second-hand ones may be available,but with what warranties/support ? It's why 2 years ago I said that the GOI must seize the opportunity and before the fast closing door shuts,order the extra birds/options. Unfortunately,repeatedly our MOD allows such deadlines to lapse to the cost of the nation.Some years earlier,the second batch of Talwars was offered to us at the same price of the first 3,but despite repeated reminders,we let the deadline pass and ended up paying extra. The political leadership of the time must bear overall responsibility and shamefully,the regime of Snake-Oil Singh had other more important priorities,the looting and scooting of the exchequer.

http://indiandefence.com/threads/dac-cl ... als.57403/
Asked why the IAF is purchasing just one additional C-17 aircraft, sources said this is because that was the lone aircraft available with Boeing. The induction of one more C-17 will further enhance the strategic reach and lift capability of the IAF. The plane can carry 75 tons besides 300 troops


So what are out options now? Only the IL-476,upgraded versions of the legacy IL-76s which were built in Uzbekistan. They're now being completely built in a new facility in Russia and are vastly improved with a 60t payload now.. The IAF have already ordered 2 platforms for the extra AWACS and will most likely order more of the same (Improved platforms) for the tankers req.,simply becos they're available and much cheaper than their Airbus competitors,platform rejected becos of high costs. I don't know what leasing options there are,but it may be possible to lease some C-17s should the arrangements and costs work out.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 306072.ece
The CCS chaired by Mr. Modi on Tuesday cleared the proposal to acquire two more Phalcon Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) at a cost of Rs. 7,500 crore under a tripartite agreement with Israel and Russia.
The AWACS are advanced radars mounted on an aircraft to give 360 degree coverage to detect incoming aircraft and missiles at long ranges.
India had procured three Phalcon AWACS, Israeli radars mounted on Russian IL-76 transport aircraft, in 2003 at cost of $1 billion. Indo-Israel ties got a major boost after Mr. Modi came to power.


These are the stark facts when it comes to heavy transport platforms. The sooner the C-295 plant starts operating the better. Apart from the Avros,the AN-32s which have been upgraded in the UKR,which have given us superb service for decades,are also reaching their eventual end and will have to start being replaced 5 years hence for a smooth transition. Once the IAF starts operating the birds we could see whether they are suitable as AN-32 replacements or need a more capable aircraft.

brar_w
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby brar_w » 27 Jun 2017 01:37

Government of India – C-17 Transport Aircraft

WASHINGTON, Jun. 26, 2017 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of India for C-17 transport aircraft. The estimated cost is $366.2 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of India has requested the possible sale of one (1) C-17 transport aircraft with four (4) Turbofan F-117-PW-100 engines. The sale would also include one (1) AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System, one (1) AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing System (CMDS), one (1) AN/APX-119 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) Transponder, precision navigation equipment, spare and repair parts, maintenance, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, warranty, Quality Assurance, ferry support, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, logistics and technical support services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $366.2 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to strengthen the U.S.-India relationship and to improve the security of an important partner which has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress and stability in South Asia.

The proposed sale will improve India’s capability to meet current and future strategic airlift requirements. India lies in a region prone to natural disasters and will use the additional capability for Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HA/DR). In addition, through this purchase India will be able to provide more rapid strategic combat airlift capabilities for its armed forces. India currently operates C-17 aircraft and will have no difficulty absorbing this aircraft into its armed forces.

The proposed sale will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractor will be the Boeing Company, Chicago, IL. The purchaser typically requests offsets. Any offset agreement will be defined in negotiations between the purchaser and the contractor.

Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government personnel or contractor representatives to India.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.


http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/go ... t-aircraft

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Postby Cybaru » 27 Jun 2017 01:46

What would be coup d'etat is being the sole manufacturer of C295. So we take over that line and all future orders come from TASL line. Improvements, versions, next gen replacements for this type come from TASL. We become part of Airbus consortium and also work with them for MTA maybe.


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