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As of 2021, nearly 500 C130J variant have been built.
With no signs of slowing down.
In light of that, how can anyone suggest with a straight face that it's a relic and not competitive in current and future scenarios.
The issue is not how many variants of the -J have been built, but what features do the IAF variant have and what are they used for.
The least used -J feature the IAF uses is "cargo".
For the IAF, to the best of my knowledge, there is no alternative to the C130-J. These are special, made-to-order built. IAF did not buy them for hauling materials, etc. They cannot be replaced by any other machine - as far as I know.
We are looking for a replacement for IL-76-MD-90A. This is a Turbofan with a payload of 60 Ton. C-130-J which is a small turboprop with a 20+ ton payload is being discussed, against C2 which is a Turbofan with a payload of 35 ton or A-400M which is a turboprop with a payload of 37 ton.
Are there really no alternates to IL 76 ? (i.e. a large Turbofan with 60 ton capacity)
NRao wrote:
The issue is not how many variants of the -J have been built, but what features do the IAF variant have and what are they used for.
The least used -J feature the IAF uses is "cargo".
For the IAF, to the best of my knowledge, there is no alternative to the C130-J. These are special, made-to-order built. IAF did not buy them for hauling materials, etc. They cannot be replaced by any other machine - as far as I know.
The c295 can play many of the same roles when it's upgraded with the mission package similar to the C130.
The best solution would be to get 24-36 C-130J pure cargo format planes and replace the balance AN-32s with C-295s. The C-130Js would fulfill the requirement of higher cargo carrying capacity, whenever required, as well for high altitude operations. Remember the C-130s can take off and land at DBO, which is as high and extreme as can get. For all other operations, additional numbers of C-295, would be enough to replace the An-32s.
The price of the regular cargo version of the C-130J will not be as expensive as the earlier purchases by IAF. We may also be able to use the $500 million credit or defense aid that reportedly the US had extended to us, for such a purchase. We can potentially also check if we can get old planes from the US bone yard and have Lockheed upgrade the planes. If they can certify a lifespan of say 25 years for the upgraded planes, then this might be a good option if it works out cheap enough.
For the heavy lift capacity, there are very few options to replace the Il-76. We really dropped the ball on the option clause of the C-17s. Additional 4-5 C-17s would have come in handy. The only feasible options that remain are the A400 and the C-2s. The C-2 would also materialize only if Japan really pushes for it. In absence of the same, expect Airbus to charge us an arm and a leg for a dozen odd A400s.
Since we're on the C295 subject, I wonder why we didn't pick-up Saudi Arabia's side of the deal and go ahead with the An-132 instead? As they've lost interest in the deal.
Antonov is in Ukraine. Most of their factories and infrastructure has been destroyed. Absolutely no chance for the AN-178 to come out anytime soon.
With regard to the AN-132, if we had bought out the design earlier, maybe something could have been worked out. Now seems very difficult.
mody wrote:The best solution would be to get 24-36 C-130J pure cargo format planes and replace the balance AN-32s with C-295s. The C-130Js would fulfill the requirement of higher cargo carrying capacity, whenever required, as well for high altitude operations. Remember the C-130s can take off and land at DBO, which is as high and extreme as can get. For all other operations, additional numbers of C-295, would be enough to replace the An-32s.
The price of the regular cargo version of the C-130J will not be as expensive as the earlier purchases by IAF. We may also be able to use the $500 million credit or defense aid that reportedly the US had extended to us, for such a purchase. We can potentially also check if we can get old planes from the US bone yard and have Lockheed upgrade the planes. If they can certify a lifespan of say 25 years for the upgraded planes, then this might be a good option if it works out cheap enough.
There are some used RAF C130Js on the market. Bid for them and ask LM for a KC-130 conversion. This gets us both a cargo capacity and much needed tankers
I keep seeing AN32 very often flying sorties at HAL. I wonder if AN-32 is being worked upon as some upgradation project or it is flying out some test airborne equipments.
An32 could be various couriers that IAF flies as part of its logistics ops to ferry parts, modules and assemblies back and forth from various bases. An32's also operate as part of ASTE so it could just be routine ops.
KAI from South Korea and UAE's Tawazun are looking to form a JV to design a new C-130H replacement transport. But with the C-295 being built at Vadodara by the Tata-Airbus combine, it now makes more sense for a new clean sheet design that involves our own PSU-private sector companies like HAL, NAL, Tatas, L&T, etc.
South Korea and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) have signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to jointly develop a multirole transport aircraft.
UAE state media revealed that the MOU was signed between the UAE's Tawazun Council and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) on 15 January. The council is the UAE defence and security acquisitions authority for the UAE Armed Forces and Abu Dhabi Police.
Details of the UAE-KAI MOU have not yet been made public. KAI had not responded to a Janes request for comment at the time of publication. However, the joint development programme almost certainly comprises the KAI MC-X multirole cargo aircraft.
Under the conditions of the MOU, both parties will undertake joint investment, research, and technological development for the project. This will “further develop bilateral co-operation in the arms industry”, South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said in a statement on 16 January.
Co-development by Korean Defence is a very useful trick for them. It helps them develop their own MIC via others money. While in India we develop others MIC with our money. Koreans are really smart players and their MIC is producing everything - from SAMs, 5Gen jets to submarines, ships.
YashG wrote:Co-development by Korean Defence is a very useful trick for them. It helps them develop their own MIC via others money. While in India we develop others MIC with our money. Koreans are really smart players and their MIC is producing everything - from SAMs, 5Gen jets to submarines, ships.
Good for the Koreans . K 9 is best in class and a few other armored platforms are not far behind , hope our folks learn from them on how to create a MIC , this endless trials and then a token order is taking us nowhere
IAF has to first figure out exactly what is the air lift capacity it needs.
The C2 is an extremely capable platform. It's a sort of baby C17 with a maximum payload of 35 tons.
That brings it quite close to A400 level of performance.
IMO, the IL 76 can safely be operated for another 15 years. The C295 will have built in quantity to replace the an32 as well. So that is a going to take a big chunk of low end capacity.
It the C390 is making sense to me for a mid range airlift capacity. But then number will have to be decided for production in India.
Any chance India can tie up with them? Seems to be the most natural partner.
If the c 2 can be manufactured in India it will be a coup but defense cooperation with japan hasn’t taken off .. with the new defense policy hope this changes
The Indian one is in the orangish primer. You can see the Indian flag on the tail.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/162 ... 94880?s=20 ---> Via @Gibdan1, the first C-295 airframe for the Indian Air Force seen here at the Airbus facility in Seville, Spain. This is the first of 16 to be built for the IAF, with another 40 to be built by the Tata-Airbus JV in India.
https://twitter.com/VivekSi85847001/sta ... 93602?s=20 ---> C-295M - made for IAF - during it's taxi trials at the Airbus facility in Spain. The first C-295M transport plane of the Indian Air Force will come to India in September 2023. Fifteen more will arrive till 2026 and then the remaining 40 airframes will be Made in India at a Gujarat facility by TATA Group.
https://twitter.com/CAC_CPRO/status/164 ... 85792?s=20 --> Ushering in a new era. Ground breaking ceremony of C-295 aircraft simulator was performed at Air Force Station Agra by @Airbus representatives on Friday. Senior functionaries of the station were present at the event.
https://twitter.com/NewsIADN/status/164 ... 11936?s=20 ---> Ground breaking ceremony for Airbus C-295 aircraft simulator. The simulator will be located at Air Force Station, Agra and will be setup by Airbus to train IAF personnel for the C-295 aircraft. IAF has a total of 56 C-295s on order, of which 16 will be directly imported while 40 will be supplied by TATA facility in India.
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/CAC_CPRO/status/164 ... 85792?s=20 --> Ushering in a new era. Ground breaking ceremony of C-295 aircraft simulator was performed at Air Force Station Agra by @Airbus representatives on Friday. Senior functionaries of the station were present at the event.
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/CAC_CPRO/status/164 ... 85792?s=20 --> Ushering in a new era. Ground breaking ceremony of C-295 aircraft simulator was performed at Air Force Station Agra by @Airbus representatives on Friday. Senior functionaries of the station were present at the event.
