Transport Aircraft for IAF

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/chandanprasad/statu ... 42145?s=20 ---> Sir, Why HAL is not interested in developing a C130 or C17 medium or Strategic class transport aircraft, is it because of lack of IAF support or funding?

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14368 ... 35873?s=20 ---> The industry can fund aerospace projects without burdening the operating services for funds. There are many examples of suo moto proposals & projects, including UCAVs, HAPS, Swarm Drones, LIFT, etc. Cargo aircraft can also be developed. That time will come soon.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

Indian government approves order request for 56 C295 aircraft
https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... -aircraft/
09 Sept 2021
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/143 ... 99686?s=20 ---> United Nations of the IAF transport fleet:

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arvin
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by arvin »

A token order of 5 Saras mk1 would have put India's flag in the pic above.
Meanwhile Saras Mk2 is awaiting additional funding of 100 Cr from govt for implementing the tractor config. The wise men in CSIR should have been tapped into other sources for funding.
They seem oblivious to the boom in IPOs and share market this year.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Brad Goodman »

Quick questions to gurus here, I understand the C17 line has been closed but there must be a demand in that segment of transport aircrafts right? Does US have an alternate or they are doing away with that segment all together?
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Pratyush »

The US has nearly 300 C 17s . Along with 450 C130s and 50 C 5s. Add to that the civilian reserved air fleet and various chartered air cargo operator's.

They have plenty of capacity for airlift for global operations.

Will that capacity be enough to deal with future generations. I don't know.

Regarding the IAF airlift requirements and potential operations. I think that we are quite well placed for the next 10 to 15 years.
With our current aircraft mix.

If the IAF feels the need to have a larger airlift fleet by 2040 and beyond. Then our developmental human resource base should permit the development of such an airlifter from 2025 onwards, for an in service date of 2040.

In this respect I am quite convinced with HVT tweet that a lot of work can be done on a suo motu basis, if the need is felt.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by NRao »

Tata-Airbus set to sign Rs 22,000-cr deal to make military plane
The biggest military order placed on the private sector - a deal to manufacture new transport aircraft for the air force - is set to be signed on Thursday, with the location for the manufacturing plant now being finalised. The Rs 22,000-crore deal is part of a series of initiatives to promote the private sector in defence manufacturing.

...............
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by brar_w »

Brad Goodman wrote:Quick questions to gurus here, I understand the C17 line has been closed but there must be a demand in that segment of transport aircrafts right? Does US have an alternate or they are doing away with that segment all together?
Th C-17's will be good through the late 2040's and 2050s at which time they will begin to be replaced. There are non operational C-17's that were retired that could be refurbished and the USAF could buy a few aircraft from UK who may look to offload them as their A-400's come online. What's more likely to happen though is that they replace the C-5 first and buy an interim airlift capability that handles the tactical airlift requirement. Having said that, with Airbus and Lockheed teaming on airlift and tankers, there is possibility that a contracted tactical/strategic airlift solution could extend the C-17's even further. A few dozen leased A-400's aren't out of the realm of possibility looking into the 2030s. Between the C-130, A-400, C-390 etc there is enough of an insurance policy at least at the tactical level. As combat vehicles, air-defense systems, missiles etc get larger and heavier the case to replace the C-5 with a more modern platform inside 2040 is more pressing than a C-17 replacement which may not even be in the same size/performance class.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by NRao »

https://mobile.twitter.com/MaverickBhar ... 0560407557 ----->
Defence Ministry and Airbus Defence and Space, Spain today signed a contract for procurement of 56 C-295 aircraft for the IAF
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

I am glad Airbus bagged this deal. Seeing Mr Ratan Tata's message below, gives me much hope.

https://twitter.com/RNTata2000/status/1 ... 39240?s=20 ---> Congratulations to Airbus Defence, Tata Advanced Systems Limited and the Indian Defence Ministry.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by NRao »

https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 3191697415 ----->
Centre for Airborne Systems has prepared a blueprint to modify 6 of the 56 C-295 military transport aircraft that are likely to be procured by the GOI from Spain for maritime usage by the Indian Coast Guard.
C-295 procured for the ICG will be modified into a Multi-Mission Maritime Aircraft variant for airborne surveillance with C4ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Computers Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) capabilities.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by chetak »

Brad Goodman wrote:Quick questions to gurus here, I understand the C17 line has been closed but there must be a demand in that segment of transport aircrafts right? Does US have an alternate or they are doing away with that segment all together?
they will reopen if there are sufficient new orders and the costs of reopening/setting up new production lines are frontloaded into the new asking prices

ditto for any C-17 upgrade market that they may serve in the future

without afghanistan in play, one would expect that the utilization of the C-17 fleet (NATO + US + maybe some gelfies) to drop significantly.

about an alternate to the C-17, there will surely be something on the drawing boards by now. Their MIC needs it to survive/thrive
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by brar_w »

There is nothing to "reopen". The factory, and the land it was built on have been sold. There is tooling preserved but that is most likely the minimum required for some component production down the road to extend the life of the fleet. There is not enough global demand (if there was they wouldn't have shut the program down) in the world to financially justify setting up a new factory, and hiring and training a new workforce. That would take billions even before the first aircraft is rolled out. There are enough C-17's in hand, and non operational to cover most medium term contingencies. Commercial - military options like a COGO solution with the A-400 and several other options are much cheaper path to a quick capability addition if they think they don't have enough tactical transport. The more pressing issue in the next 15-20 years is the C-5 replacement, not the C-17 replacement.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by chetak »

brar_w wrote:There is nothing to "reopen". The factory, and the land it was built on have been sold. There is tooling preserved but that is most likely the minimum required for some component production down the road to extend the life of the fleet. There is not enough global demand (if there was they wouldn't have shut the program down) in the world to financially justify setting up a new factory, and hiring and training a new workforce. That would take billions even before the first aircraft is rolled out. There are enough C-17's in hand, and non operational to cover most medium term contingencies. Commercial - military options like a COGO solution with the A-400 and several other options are much cheaper path to a quick capability addition if they think they don't have enough tactical transport. The more pressing issue in the next 15-20 years is the C-5 replacement, not the C-17 replacement.
let's see

one has immense faith in the abilities of "humanity" to start new wars. This has always been their second favorite pastime, the all time favorite is graphically depicted on the pages of the kama sutra

one would even postulate that afghanistan is just the new beginning and not the end of the jehadi outreach and their dreams of the larger caliphate

the ameriki drawing boards are big enough to accommodate the replacements to the C-5 as well as the C-17.

Can't really see the amerikis using anything like the A-400. Their egos are simply too big

After all, it's the MIC and the conglomerates that sustain and drive the edifice of the POTUS and the deep state
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

chetak wrote:one has immense faith in the abilities of "humanity" to start new wars. This has always been their second favorite pastime, the all time favorite is graphically depicted on the pages of the kama sutra
The *ESSENCE* of America summarized in two sentences :lol: :rotfl:
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Manish_P »

We need more air-lifters and the C-17 is no longer available.. So are we interested/have checked out the Airbus A-400?

Or are we looking at and waiting for the Ilyushin Il-276
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Pratyush »

Has the airforce actually come up with a requirement for more airlift capacity?
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by sajaym »

The building blocks of India's future transport fleet are being put in place -- HTFE & HTSE engines, IMRH, Saras Mk-II. IMHO Saras mkII is that perfect shape which can be scaled up just like the ALH is scaling up into the IMRH. For our transport requirements we should be trying to be Atma-nirbhar...not America-nirbhar.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Bart S »

The 747-8F is no military transport but could be very useful for military logistics (at least reducing the requirement for C17s to be used in that role when flying between established airports). With that production line being wound up as well, I can't help thinking that we missed an opportunity there too.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Zynda »

So folks here think that IAF going for more Il-476 is not a good idea? Probably too early to say but I think with most components & parts of newer Candid being fabbed in Russia, serviceability issues of 476 might not be as bad. With C-17 no longer in production, I guess we have no other option wrt heavy lifting assets. If we can get Il to agree to a PBL clause...have to see.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by RKumar »

sajaym wrote:The building blocks of India's future transport fleet are being put in place -- HTFE & HTSE engines, IMRH, Saras Mk-II. IMHO Saras mkII is that perfect shape which can be scaled up just like the ALH is scaling up into the IMRH. For our transport requirements we should be trying to be Atma-nirbhar...not America-nirbhar.
I like this idea but it’s important that Saras take wings and clear the certifications. It’s long overdue project and requires accountability.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by rrao »

Now TATA should outsource some work of C-295 to HAL TAD Kanpur, HAL KORWA.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Manish_P »

sajaym wrote:The building blocks of India's future transport fleet are being put in place -- HTFE & HTSE engines, IMRH, Saras Mk-II. IMHO Saras mkII is that perfect shape which can be scaled up just like the ALH is scaling up into the IMRH. For our transport requirements we should be trying to be Atma-nirbhar...not America-nirbhar.
Agreed. However time is of the essence. The new C-17 saw lots of service in the few years since they were inducted (even if for Humanitarian evacuations). Same with Poseidons likely. And the world is a more dangerous place for us than it was the past 2 decades or so and getting even more so..

Given our long procurement processes we need to have a plan B even as we focus on getting atma-nirbhar. And it's heartening to see our border infra (roads and railways) being built at some pace, despite hurdles (read how the environment ministry has held up some critical projects in the north-east).

But many times i feel developing and building our own turbofan engine (and it's variants) should be the number 1 priority (in terms of development spends and resources) for our military (even higher than our AMCA/TEDBF/UCAV etc) as well as our civilian aviation (forget exports, just imagine the huge foreign exchange saved). We have come a long way in designing aircraft, control systems, weapons (Bombs and missiles) and we will progress further, at even faster speeds, in those areas. Not having our own aero-engine is the one serious handicap restraining us from punching in our weight class.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Vips »

rrao wrote:Now TATA should outsource some work of C-295 to HAL TAD Kanpur, HAL KORWA.
Why feed a PSU? Even if it is fully corporatized its DNA will remain a PSU. We need a Private sector MIC being supported by privately owned MSME players.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by kit »

Vips wrote:
rrao wrote:Now TATA should outsource some work of C-295 to HAL TAD Kanpur, HAL KORWA.
Why feed a PSU? Even if it is fully corporatized its DNA will remain a PSU. We need a Private sector MIC being supported by privately owned MSME players.
Indeed, its better if the entire aircraft is built by private companies creating different tiers., this could be self-sustaining overall with the requirements, variants,maintanence and new generations down the line
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12955 ... 02560?s=20 ---> SUBROTO - the first HS-748 AVRO of India.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1449 ... 36744?s=20 ---> Holding up the Skies, Yet No Stranger To The Ground.

#BridgeToHome
#TheDependables
#C17
#MondayMuse

Photographs - Wing Commander Shyam Kumar.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/146 ... 82919?s=20 ---> C-17s & Il-76 heavy lifts in Ladakh as part of Operation Hercules, a joint IAF-Army high intensity airlift drill to optimize logistics supply & winter stocking in op areas of northern sector, where the world's largest military standoff between India and China has been on for 18 months.

https://twitter.com/lca_tejas_/status/1 ... 73797?s=20 ---> A joint airlift exercise, ‘Operation Hercules’ was undertaken by IAF and Indian Army on 15 Nov 2021. The aim of this high-intensity airlift is to strengthen the logistics supply in the Northern Sector and to augment winter stocking in the operational areas.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 07841?s=20 ---> One of the primary components supplied under India Specific Enhancements (ISE) on C-130J "Super Hercules", the STAR SAFIRE payload is a renowned system to perform variety of missions with the airlifter.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 28064?s=20 --->

Indian Air Force C-17 Globemaster on an early morning Sortie. IAF operates total 11 of them.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 90084?s=20 ---> The Indian Air Force is reportedly planning to order additional batch of CH-47F(I) "Chinook" heavy-lift helicopters, which will bolster the capabilities of the organization to carry out airlifting missions in all-weather conditions.

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 09729?s=20 ---. “Case for procurement of additional Chinooks to meet our operational requirements is under active consideration,” said Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal Vivek Choudhary in an exclusive interview with Vayu Aerospace.

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 33473?s=20 ---> Since the induction in March 2019, the helicopter significantly enhanced IAF's cargo transport and airlifting capacity, during both peace-time and war-time. During 2020-21 standoff with China, the airframe's performed exceptionally well in high altitude region of Ladakh.

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 02179?s=20 ---> With 15 units currently in service, IAF is looking forward to expand the status with atleast one more squadron. The 126 "Featherweights" helicopter unit is the current operator of the type.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ilyushin_76md/statu ... 75970?s=20 ---> The workhorse of the Indian Air Force transport fleet - Antonov An-32RE - slowing down after landing. Notice the thick black smoke from the Ivchenko turboprop engine.

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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

Brazil’s Embraer offers C-390 Millennium to IAF; To boost heavy lift capabilities
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... s/2550462/
06 June 2022

Embraer approaches India to secure order for C-390
https://www.airdatanews.com/embraer-app ... for-c-390/
08 June 2022
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by sohamn »

How is C390 offering heavy lift? It’s at best a medium lift aircraft and can be compared to a Hercules or an An 32.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

sohamn wrote:How is C390 offering heavy lift? It’s at best a medium lift aircraft and can be compared to a Hercules or an An 32.
Saar, Financial Express is adding its journalistic freedom to its news articles :)

The C-17 and C-390 are not even in the same league. This is likely the MTA (Medium Transport Aircraft) substitute. India walked away from that program with Russia. Our transport fleet is another zoo (C-17, C-130, C295, An-32, HS Avro and now perhaps C-390 as well).
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Bart S »

^Providing heavy lift (or heavy lifafa?) to 'journalists' on paid junkies maybe.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Rakesh »

When we should have ordered more C-17s to replace the aging IL-76s, the MoD (as usual) hummed, hawed and dithered. Now we have a pithy 11 C-17s and a fleet of IL-76s that are long overdue for upgrade (and eventual) replacement. Now there is no C-17 production line, the IL-76s cannot be upgraded and now Air HQ will write a new RFI for a strategic transport. Why MoD, Why????

https://twitter.com/OsintTv/status/1544 ... HpqLX-u5JQ ---> Indian Air Force's heavy lift aircraft Ilyushin IL-76MD upgrade plan dropped due to the ongoing Ukr - Rus conflict.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Rakesh wrote:When we should have ordered more C-17s to replace the aging IL-76s, the MoD (as usual) hummed, hawed and dithered. Now we have a pithy 11 C-17s and a fleet of IL-76s that are long overdue for upgrade (and eventual) replacement. Now there is no C-17 production line, the IL-76s cannot be upgraded and now Air HQ will write a new RFI for a strategic transport. Why MoD, Why????

https://twitter.com/OsintTv/status/1544 ... HpqLX-u5JQ ---> Indian Air Force's heavy lift aircraft Ilyushin IL-76MD upgrade plan dropped due to the ongoing Ukr - Rus conflict.
Is there an aircraft available that can meet similar requirements though??
The options are limited Japanese C2 which I don't think is available for sale and Embraer's C390 which is more akin to a super herc in performance. Both leave a lot more to be desired in terms of the performance gap to the C17 or the IL.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Pratyush »

The A400 is 80% payload capacity of the IL76. It comes closest to the IAF requirements.

But I am not too sure that IL 76 upgrade is no longer possible.

Russia can still produce engine's and India should be able to acquire arrange for other systems for the aircraft either through domestic source or French or Israelis.
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Re: Transport Aircraft for IAF

Post by Pratyush »

Time is coming for an ab initio development of a fleet of transport aircrafts for the IAF.

Starting from 20 tons to 70 tons.
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