Transport Aircraft for IAF

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 10 Sep 2013 20:08

IAF C-17s in Tajikistan is sweet indeed. Must be gearing up for post-2014. Hope they flew direct over PoK and not Iran.

hmmm

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 19 Sep 2013 01:06

Vipul wrote:IAF has finalised plans to acquire six more Globemasters in the 13th Plan (2017-2022) period.

Boeing to Complete Production of C-17 Globemaster III in 2015

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Sep 2013 02:04

GeorgeWelch wrote:
Vipul wrote:IAF has finalised plans to acquire six more Globemasters in the 13th Plan (2017-2022) period.
Boeing to Complete Production of C-17 Globemaster III in 2015

Thanks.

I think the EOL includes the Indian options (of 6) if not 10.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Sep 2013 12:14

Unless AN-124 production is restarted,there's little need for the bird.For any unique requirements,one could lease the bird from the companies that operate it.However,the C-295 is a type that we could certainly use,or even licence produce here.There are Med. role MR/ASW IN and CG requirements and even though all the AN-32s are being upgraded, would be very useful additions to the med. lift capability.This bird could also serve as the regional civilian airliner to replace our old Avros,some of which whose airframes have life in them could bee upgraded as suggested by some.Here are a couple of reports.

In 2012, EADS announced several enhancements to the design, including winglets, and an ability to carry the Marte anti-ship missile. An airborne early warning and control version is also planned.

ndonesia, Airbus offer new aircraft to Phl
By Rudy Santos (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 26, 2013

MANILA, Philippines - The Indonesian government, in partnership with Airbus has produced a CN295 military aircraft ideal for defense and environmental surveillance missions.

Indonesia is offering the Philippines a twin-engine medium-sized, multi-role aircraft for civilian and military use, a cheaper version of the C-130 Hercules troop and transport carrier.

The Philippines is the first stop in a tour around six ASEAN countries – Brunei, Vietnam, Myanmar, Thailand and Malaysia – to promote the capabilities and efficiency of the transport aircraft.

Accompanying the airplane on its visit to the Philippines for a demonstration of the airplanes capabilities is Indonesian deputy minister (retired) Gen. Sjafrie Sjamsuddien.

“We are promoting the use of a common defense system among the Asean countries and the CN295 perfectly fits this objective,” he said in a statement.

Department of Defense undersecretary for legal and legislative affairs and strategic concerns Pio Lorenzo Batino was at Villamor Air Base to watch a demonstration of the plane which made a 30-minute flight from the Ninoy Aquino International Airport.

The arrival of the Indonesians promoting an airplane capable of long-range reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare, troop transport medical evacuation comes at a time when the Philippines has signified its intention to beef up its military.

President Aquino announced a $1.8-billion military upgrade to help defend the country’s maritime territory during the anniversary of the Philippine Navy.

The Philippines has been beefing up its armed forces, starting with the purchase of maritime vessels from the United States over what observers called “bullying” by China and the Republic of China (Taiwan).

The CN295 is a joint venture between Indonesia and Airbus.

Sjamsuddien said he believes a common use of the same aircraft type in the Asean region would strengthen cooperation among members while significantly reducing the operational and maintenance cost of the aircraft.

“In the segment of small and medium aircraft, the CN295, CN235 and NC212i are the perfect solution to the type of missions we undertake in this region,” Sjamsuddien said.

A reliable source told The STAR that the Philippine Air Force is planning to purchase three NC295 and one C-130 cargo plane for rescue and humanitarian missions.

http://www.philstar.com/business/2013/0 ... rcraft-phl

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 27 Sep 2013 23:58

Ghaziabad - Hindon (VIDX) September 2, 2013 | Prithviraj Induction समारोह

CB-8001

CB-8002

Photos © my friend Angad Singh

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 30 Sep 2013 18:05

Whats that vehicle in the right background in the second picture? Its unlike any other SDRE vehicle i've seen.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 30 Sep 2013 19:36

Vasu wrote:Whats that vehicle in the right background in the second picture? Its unlike any other SDRE vehicle i've seen.

looks like a F250-350 from the barely visible blue oval on the grill. I am not aware of any desi manufacturer making a dually pickup.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Oct 2013 00:14

India looking induct 7 more:

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/iaf-loo ... e/1176469/

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 01 Oct 2013 22:44

Just add 12 more of each type and be done for a while. We need transports.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 03 Oct 2013 17:14

Not exactly IAF, but here is a picture of
"An M1A1 MBT is offloaded from a USAF C-17A Globemaster III aircraft at Balad Air Base, Iraq, 2004"

http://imgur.com/r/MilitaryPorn/4Km09Oq

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 03 Oct 2013 18:36

Vishal Jolapara wrote:Ghaziabad - Hindon (VIDX) September 2, 2013 | Prithviraj Induction समारोह

CB-8001

CB-8002

Photos © my friend Angad Singh

In the first pic something has been blanked out in white and in blue. What is it ?

The "blanking out" n blue, to the right of the a/c could be a typical height finding radar e.g.Soviet PRV 11.

Something seems to have been blanked out (in white) over the HAS to the left rear of the a/c.

Very curious to know what n why ???

K

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 05 Oct 2013 05:27

for philip and Sanku

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FczcIJSQiw

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 07 Oct 2013 18:17

^^^ Beautiful...

Thank you. The fit and finish are much much better, even visible to the naked eye in a video. Parts of it look good enough for me to suspect CGI even (dont think it is though)

We should drop MTA and just go with this now !!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Oct 2013 18:35

Drop extra C-17s and get 3 for 1 instead,as well as replacing old Il-76s which cannot be upgraded.In times of crisis,more heavy-lifters will be in heavy demand.Just 1 dozen or so C-17s will never be abel to meet requirements and Boeing has just announced that it is closing the C-17 line.The new IL-76s are just perfect for the IAF.

The MTA is another requirement and also meant to give us the experience of designing and manufacturing an indigenous medium sized transport aircraft .There will also be great scope for variants too, for ASW/MRP,AEW-a far better platform than the EMB,med. tankers,etc.I am sure that we will eventually require about 100 MTAs.The MTA would also in some measure assist in assuaging the depleting number of HS-748s which are meant to be replaced by another light transport,yet to be indentified,a process which given IST will take at least 2 years!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Oct 2013 18:41

Surya wrote:for philip and Sanku

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FczcIJSQiw

So, they still have left over green paint, eh?

@ 31/32 sec the rear wheels actually lift before the nose wheels !!!!! A new meaning to rotate.

I will still take a few more C-17s.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Oct 2013 18:52

NRao wrote:They used one of them to transport the train compartment/bogie from Germany to Mumbai (for the Mumbai subway?) (youtube has an hour long story - big, bigger. biggest is what it is called IIRC).

But I do not think they are used too much - anywhere - for military purposes. The US could perhaps use them - they seem to have a dire need for something like that (but they have the 747-800F to compete). No other nation really has such a NEED.

delhi, for DMRC. not mumbai.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 12 Oct 2013 08:31

Looks like all our transports will be put to emergency use shortly in the aftermath of Phailin which is shaping up to be a major disaster. Good luck to all the crew and the people on the east coast, specially Odisha and Andhra. Seems to be heading for Vizag.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Oct 2013 02:27

C-17 swap could extend production

Boeing on Sept. 18 said it would close the C-17 final assembly plant in Long Beach, Calif., in 2015, after completing 22 aircraft for international customers.

The company will begin reducing its workforce in 2014. In all, 3,000 people at facilities in California, Arizona, Missouri and Georgia work on the C-17. When the supply chain is factored in, about 20,000 people support the C-17 program.

Of the 22 aircraft still to be built, 13 are not on “firm order,” said Nan Bouchard, Boeing’s C-17 program manager.

The company said it would produce an additional 13 planes that have not yet been sold before shuttering the production line. Aboulafia said he believes those planes could end up with India, South Korea and Saudi Arabia. India has already purchased a previous order of C-17s; the latter two countries have been named for some time as potential buyers.

I think the option has six planes. That leaves 7 (of the 13). So, I suspect India will pick up another 4. So, a total of 10 (is my guess) of these 13 are for India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2013 07:02

quite useful for moving large kit like SAMs, missiles and radars plus heavy pallets of ammo .... we should upgrade all ALGs into cememted for C17 use.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Oct 2013 11:28

^^^

If you cement the ALG, then all your aircraft inventory can use the ALG, quite devious I say.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 25 Oct 2013 23:29

#4 Outbound from Long Beach

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 28 Oct 2013 18:53

This is the fourth one. We need 20 more! That would completely satisfy India's strategic airlift needs. I do not agree with Philip's assertions that we should go for Il-76s at all. IAF has enough experience with them to come to the conclusion that an alternative must be found and they did find it in the form of C-17s.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 02 Nov 2013 21:25

वायुसेना पृथ्वीराज भार-गुरु कुर्सी

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Nov 2013 06:09

Super Hercules in the Himalayas

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Nov 2013 09:12

UK interested in another C-17..what is interesting in this article is that there appears to be a last minute scramble by existing C-17 operators to get their hands on the remaining 13 "white tails" (airplanes with no customers assigned at the time of production). the IAF will need to decide quickly on the additional 6 C-17s that they wanted to order as part of the follow-on contract..

UK shows interest in buying another C-17

DUBAI — Britain has added its name to the list of countries vying to get their hands on the last of the Boeing C-17 Globemaster IIIs being produced in Long Beach, Calif., ahead of its closure, according to Defence Ministry sources.

The case for buying what would be the Royal Air Force’s ninth C-17 are set to be discussed by UK defense acquisition approval chiefs in the next few days, they said.

The UK has acquired the first eight in a piecemeal fashion since the first four aircraft became operational in 2001 under a lease arrangement.

The upcoming closure of the C-17 assembly line has forced the UK’s hand on deciding whether to buy, as a number of nations are scrambling to purchase machines as white tails and not yet assigned to customers.

Until now, most of the nations with extra C-17s on their shopping list were reckoned to be in the Arabian Gulf region.

A purchase by the British would bring the Royal Air Force close to the 10 C-17s it originally said it needed for its airlift requirements.

Boeing didn’t deny the story, but said in a statement, “our customers prefer to make announcements regarding additional orders on their own time table.” The MoD did not respond to requests for comment.

The cash for the British purchase could come from defense budget underspend. At least one previous C-17 purchase has been funded that way.

The addition of a C-17 would boost Air Force airlift assets following the withdrawal from service last month of its C-130K special forces fleet, meaning some of the remaining C-130J aircraft will have to step in to bridge the capability gap. The UK will receive the first of 22 Airbus A400M airlifters next year.

The C-17 fleet has been stretched by the air bridge demands of Afghanistan and elsewhere. This year, two aircraft were diverted from Britain’s withdrawal effort in Afghanistan to provide assistance to French forces deploying to Mali; last week one of the aircraft was in the Philippines delivering aid to victims of the typhoon.

The British decision on whether to vie for another airlifter comes as Boeing executives hint that the eleventh hour demand for airframes may not be entirely met.

“I’m concerned about which customer is going to get left out in the cold,” Paul Oliver, Boeing Defense Middle East and Africa regional vice president for business development, said at a briefing on the eve of the Dubai Airshow.

Boeing officials in September said that C-17 production would end in 2015. US Air Force production finished this year.

The remaining aircraft are all for international customers. The company is building 13 of the 22 remaining planes on its own dime in anticipation of orders coming through.

The 13 aircraft are “earmarked for three customers,” Oliver said. Some of those aircraft are “being protected for a customer in the [Middle East].”

Boeing officials would not say which countries want the aircraft. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates are all said to be interested.

Since Boeing announced it would close the line, existing customers have expressed interest in additional aircraft, Oliver said. That is in addition to the 13 that are earmarked.

Dennis Muilenburg, the president and CEO of Boeing Defense, Space & Security, said a final decision has been made to close the line and dismissed a proposal to buy back the US Air Force’s oldest 20 C-17s in exchange for 20 new, deeply discounted aircraft.

“It’s a firm decision,” he said during a discussion with reporters at the Dubai Airshow. “In this environment, those are the kind of decisions we have to make.”

Leo.Davidson · Post by **Leo.Davidson** » 27 Nov 2013 08:40

India has placed firm orders for 10 of these beasts; We need atleast 20 of them just to service the Indo-China sector in battle.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 27 Nov 2013 09:23

We aren't going to get that many. There are 13 available after the ones on order are delivered and those white tails are the last C-17s that will be available. the IAF needs to get in line for the 6 that they originally wanted..if they don't process the follow-on deal quickly (by 2015), even getting 6 may end up being very difficult.

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 27 Nov 2013 10:20

Kartik wrote:We aren't going to get that many. There are 13 available after the ones on order are delivered and those white tails are the last C-17s that will be available. the IAF needs to get in line for the 6 that they originally wanted..if they don't process the follow-on deal quickly (by 2015), even getting 6 may end up being very difficult.

IAF was planning for 24 C 17s. seems to me they may go for the refurbished 2nd hand C 17s from the US via FMS in the time to come at cheaper rates.

member_27808 · Post by **member_27808** » 01 Dec 2013 16:28

This option should be explored for a heavy lift option. Left field yes but should be considered especially if some of these airships come on line.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-te ... 2ygha.html

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 01 Dec 2013 22:00

pragnya wrote:IAF was planning for 24 C 17s. seems to me they may go for the refurbished 2nd hand C 17s from the US via FMS in the time to come at cheaper rates.

I doubt the US will have any second-hand C-17s available until they are ready for the scrap-yard.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 20 Dec 2013 00:15

India to lay 14 strategic railway lines near China, Pak border

No need to waste money on SDRE railway tracks. We have the Amriki maal to meet all strategic requirements.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 20 Dec 2013 00:33

Was this posted here?

The right way to arm

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 20 Dec 2013 01:05

^Ever wondered why a giant India has bought the Bofors gun from a small Sweden, the Pilatus PC-7 basic trainer aircraft from an even smaller Switzerland, and is going to buy the humble rifle for the jawan from abroad?
Is the good AVM saying it is because the DPSU unions' authority has been established and they therefore have no incentive to improve?? He seems to be giving the neta-babu combine a clean chit?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 01:13

This writer, as part of the tri-service acquisition process, saw how progressive the Indian bureaucracy can be when it wants to. A well-thought-out decision was taken that the Avro would be replaced through the process of asking a foreign manufacturer to choose an Indian partner, based on criteria laid down by the government. The rationale was that technology would get transferred to a vibrant Indian private entity whose foundation in making transport aircraft would then be laid. Before confirming the decision, the Defence Acquisition Council formed two high level committees — the first to check the correctness of the proposed novel route (headed by the DRDO chief) and the other (headed by an additional secretary) to check the criteria for selecting the IPA. There was no disagreement; in fact, there permeated a feeling of the tide being turned in favour of India. The request for proposal was floated to eight foreign vendors. Predictably, the DPSU lobby has struck back, as evident from the request of the heavy industries minister, Praful Patel, to the defence minister, requesting a re-look at the proposed pathbreaking route.

The DM can still do the right thing and pursue the original course. Its his duty and responsibility to do so.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 20 Dec 2013 19:57

Amid row over diplomat's arrest, US bags key aircraft deal

New Delhi: India will be procuring six more C-130J Super Hercules Special Operations aircraft from the US, a decision significantly taken in the midst of a diplomatic row between the two countries over the arrest of Devyani Khobragade.

The proposal to procure the six C-130J Super Hercules special operations transport aircraft from the US in a deal worth over Rs 4,000 crore was taken at the meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, sources said here.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 21 Dec 2013 22:50

No comments here? The current row of CIA person absconding(alleged) and lady diplomat treated like another normal druggard citizen of USA could make us at least halt and revisit all options or substitutes?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Jan 2014 16:51

India May Reconsider Avro Transport Replacement Plans

NEW DELHI — An unprecedented competition announced by the Indian government to energize local private industry in aerospace manufacturing stands on a razor’s edge, with the country’s defense ministry contemplating opening participation to India’s monopolistic state-owned defense companies as well.

A $2.5 billion competition to replace the Indian air force’s (IAF) fleet of 56 vintage Hawker Siddley HS748 Avro medium transports was floated last year, specifically excluding state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) as an Indian contender. But pressure from politicians and lobbyists may squelch that idea. By March, Indian companies will need to submit proposals on how they plan to meet the requirement. If the defense ministry alters the competition, it will land a major blow to a private sector that has long decried preferential treatment and unfair rules for state-owned corporations.

The defense ministry wants a foreign airframer to identify an Indian production partner or consortium (which can include HAL, but not HAL alone) to which it will transfer technology to build 40 of the 56 aircraft at a local production line. The first 16 aircraft will be supplied in flyaway condition by the original equipment manufacturer. India’s minister for heavy industries protested in a letter last November, and the ministry announced it would study his concerns.

Meanwhile, the ministry postponed the last date for submission of proposals from Dec. 8, 2013, to March 8, 2014. Private industry is deeply worried that a reissue of the original request for proposals with participation restrictions expunged would kill the very spirit of the competition. India’s top private industry trade groups have raised sharp concerns.

“Revisiting the program, at this advanced stage, will not only stall this project but also discourage [the] private sector to proactively invest in the defense sector,” says the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) in a letter to Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony. The Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce & Industry (FICCI) issued a similar missive to the minister.

The IAF is itself opposing changes to the RFP, given that it has long sought to develop new sources of aerospace equipment beyond HAL. A troubled relationship with HAL has strengthened the IAF’s resolve to provide a genuine opportunity for the Indian private sector to step up and move beyond the rut of supplying subsystems, spares and aggregates.

Retired air force officers are also weighing in, including one who was until recently a part of the acquisition process. In a column published in The Indian Express, Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur, now with the ministry-governed Center For Air Power Studies (CAPS) think tank, writes, “If we opt out now, our private industry, vibrant in other fields, will never take root in the defense sector.” Bahadur adds that the decision to exclude HAL from the competition was vetted at the defense ministry’s highest levels.

The IAF’s 1960s-vintage Avro transports, once workhorses in logistics duties, are in poor condition and need urgent replacement. Apart from these, the IAF operates a mix of An-32, Il-76, and C-130J Super Hercules transports. India recently signed a deal with the U.S. government for six more C-130Js.

member_28041 · Post by **member_28041** » 04 Jan 2014 19:19

There should be a better plan to consolidate the IAF transport aircraft fleet.Ideally there should be two categories : Heavy and medium lift aircraft.

For heavy we should consolidate around the C17. The IL-76 will die their natural death in not so distant future(read reaching end of service life).

For medium we should have have something similar to C130J(Stretched C130 without any special forces equipments.This should be cheaper than the ones we have now)
The above should replace An-32 and Avro's.
We have around 100+ An-32 which are being upgraded and around 50+ Avro's. These 150+ aircraft could be replaced gradually with around 100+ C130J type aircraft if we consider their payload capacity.

We could license manufacture the same economically in india since the order will be upwards of 100 aircrafts.
Negotiate hard for real deep tot(Including Turbofans) instead of the screwdriver assembly happening now in the name of TOT.Such deep TOT should insulate our self to any future sanctions.
Parallel'y we should have a programme to build our own turbofans which could equip the later build/mid-life upgrade aircrafts.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 04 Jan 2014 20:31

nitinraj wrote:There should be a better plan to consolidate the IAF transport aircraft fleet.Ideally there should be two categories : Heavy and medium lift aircraft.

...

Instead, watch as we acquire the most diverse fleet of transports known to mankind in a bid to be "diverse" and "fair" to all aircraft manufacturers worldwide.

That said, if there is an option to build a desi transport aircraft, I would welcome it even if adds yet another aircraft type to the existing plethora.

member_28041 · Post by **member_28041** » 04 Jan 2014 21:26

vivek_ahuja wrote:
nitinraj wrote:There should be a better plan to consolidate the IAF transport aircraft fleet.Ideally there should be two categories : Heavy and medium lift aircraft.

...
Instead, watch as we acquire the most diverse fleet of transports known to mankind in a bid to be "diverse" and "fair" to all aircraft manufacturers worldwide.

That said, if there is an option to build a desi transport aircraft, I would welcome it even if adds yet another aircraft type to the existing plethora.

True. Just see the talk of 56 Avro replacement with no mention of any An-32 replacements. Don't they know that An-32 will have to be retired in not so distant future?Instead of buying another type then, it makes a lot of economic sense to consolidate these two purchases into a single one and thus reduce the per aircraft cost.
Well its tax-payers money.So no one cares a shit about the economic part.