China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 02 May 2013 20:48


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 02 May 2013 20:49


Philip
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Philip » 02 May 2013 21:29

Or is it his fear of contracting swine flu!

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 03 May 2013 01:26

Exclusive: Ladakh incursion by China a localised matter, says Khurshid

The tension over the incident is even threatening to cast a shadow over Union External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid’s May 9 visit to China. On Thursday, the cabinet was briefed by Army Chief Bikram Singh over the issue.

In an exclusive interview to Anita Katyal, Khurshid refuted reports that the flag-level talks were not moving forward. He also dismissed suggestions that he should call off his visit to Beijing [ Images ] if there’s no progress in the talks.

Playing down the recent developments between India [ Images ] and China, the minister said one such incident should not be allowed to impinge on the relationship between the two countries. He reiterated that the incursions by the Chinese army beyond the Indian side of the Line of Actual Control were a localised affair and that efforts were on to resolve these differences.

Are the developments in the Depsang plains of Ladakh a localised affair or something more than that? What’s the government’s assessment?

Our real assessment is that this is a localised matter, it is an incident. Of course, your next question will then be if it is indeed a localised incident, why has it lasted three weeks?

All I can say is that the media and everybody else sees everything unidimensionally but the ground situation is never unidimensional, it is multidimensional.

When you have differences in perception about the boundary, these do get translated into human action. When there is an intrusion into airspace, you cannot do anything but protest later as the plane has come and gone. But on ground, an incident like this has a lasting impact. The manner in which it is being highlighted makes it difficult to disengage.

In that case, how exactly would you describe this incident?

There were 20 soldiers from both the sides…you consider that a confrontation? No. In fact, I would not even go as far as describing it a face-off.

There are reports that this incident is set to escalate into a confrontation and that the talks between the two armies are going nowhere.

Both sides are talking to each other. It is an ongoing conversation -- the conversation is going on as per the prescribed procedures.

As you know, a flag meeting takes place if a matter is not resolved; it is then taken up by the border commanders after which the joint secretaries step in. If these issues still remain unresolved, foreign secretaries of the two countries come into the picture. And only after all these fail, the political leadership steps in. Please remember, these talks are still being conducted at the flag-level.



How do you see the progress at these talks?

It is not our assessment that these talks have been pointless, nor do we consider that they have concluded successfully -- which is why we will continue to talk and engage with each other. There is movement forward. And we will continue to talk till the issue is resolved.

There is also a view that the new dispensation in China is testing the waters with India.

A lot is being said that there is a larger design to this development, but our assessment is totally different from that of the media. These things happen all the time since there is a difference in perception on both sides about the boundary.

And there is no demarcation of the boundary. They have pitched tents, we have done the same. But there is no hostility or anger…if there was, we would not be talking.

There is a suggestion that you should call off your forthcoming visit to China in view of the ongoing stand-off.

No responsible person is saying that I should call off my May 9 visit. In fact, there is total unanimity in the government that I should travel to China as scheduled.

As I said earlier, we are in the process of resolving this matter. There is a week before my visit. I hope it will be resolved by then.

Please remember, my visit is not connected to these developments. This was scheduled well before this incident. It is to prepare the groundwork for Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s visit to India on May 20 and also to touch base with the new dispensation.

A host of issues will be taken up during my meetings in China. If the border incident is not resolved till then, then it will figure in the talks.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Brando » 03 May 2013 01:53

Please remember, my visit is not connected to these developments. This was scheduled well before this incident. It is to prepare the groundwork for Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s visit to India on May 20 and also to touch base with the new dispensation.

A host of issues will be taken up during my meetings in China. If the border incident is not resolved till then, then it will figure in the talks.



So, His "Idiocy" Mr Khurshid already has a mental roadmap for this farce to continue up to Li Whatshisface's visit ??

Basically, he's already absolving himself of any responsibility of this issue and is basically saying - "Hey, I'm just the party planner!"

Should we even be surprised with this level of rear-end-covering and planning for defeat by the same party that got whipped by the Chinese in 1962?

Chinese Communist party's Petulance: China: 'Current peace and status quo is not bestowed by India alone'
"Indian policy toward China can be fickle, while China's levers for balancing the relationship are much simpler and scarcer," it said.

"Therefore, Indian media and opposition should be balanced, so as to prevent them from enjoying privileges outside inter-governmental communications and negotiations," it said.

"Either the Indian government should stand up to report true information to Indian society, or it should let Chinese public opinion contend with India's," it said.


So the Global Times wants Indian opposition parties and the Indian media to be muzzled because they "enjoy privileges" like "free speech" and "free press" ?? Scandalous surely from a Chinese perspective but also incredibly absurd, arrogant and ignorant of India.

What does "or it should let Chinese public opinion contend with India's" mean ? Can the GoI issue diktats on the Chinese blogsphere and do Chinese nationalistic ravings on their blogs negate or equal the national media coverage to the Chinese intrusion ?
Last edited by Brando on 03 May 2013 02:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 03 May 2013 02:05

And, when did the Chinese population drop from 50 to 20? Bet it is around 100.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Sujata » 03 May 2013 04:10

It's very strange that the Indian Government wants to have a conversation with 2 thieves. One being the chinese army stealing the land while thief number 2 the chinese government comes over to have negotiations so that you the Indian government thinks it has options ,and doesn't look weak in front of the Indian People.The chinese government officials occupy the Indian Governments time,and it's just a trick of Deflection so that the Indian people can't get more Pis OFFed that their land has been stolen. There using the fake talks to stall ,and in which time blows over ,and can steal some more land.They the chinese army will then take more land ,and then the chinese government will send another delegation ,and repeat the process.The chinese government delegation is their to shake your hand while the chinese army is using the other hand to steal everything blinding.

What the Indian Government should do is send more troops to show that the chinese government that they can defend their property,and show that IT IS YOUR PROPERTY in the FIRST PLACE. If the Indian Government doesn't show that they Care for the Indian Peoples Land then chinese army wont care to throw you Off of it.

The chinese army respects one thing only ,and that is not being diplomatic ,but Brute Force.If you can show that you can ,and will Protect your land they will have no choice ,but to respect that.Strength vs Strength is the only way to push off a bully.If you look weak ,and think because you're a kind and caring it will be reciprocated back with kindness you are sadly mistaken.The chinese government is trying to bully all of it's neighbors and steal has much as they can to show that they are not weak in front of their own people.

Negotiations are for people that have been conquered,and not for Strong Indian People that can dictate their own terms.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby raj-ji » 03 May 2013 04:53

skganji wrote:
aditya.agd wrote:I think the Indian government needs to know that country runs on military strength not on business relationships.... sad day for Indians.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 822794.cms


I don't think it is a sad day for Indians. They are getting what they deserved. Why are they electing incompetent leaders like MMS and giving goddess like status to Sonia and treating Nehru family as if they are like kings and queens . We need to kick them out of power so that somebody gets a chance to fix the mess that is created by them. Unfortunately Indians don't learn and they elect the same non-sensical leaders again and again. No hope for India. Pakistan on the right and China is kicking on the left. Useless leaders are confused and have no vision to face the crisis boldly. Shameful situation for India. Army, Navy and AF are just for show on Jan 26th and August 15th at India gate. Shame . Shame. Screw business relationships with China. India doesn't need cheap plastic from China.



Wow, all this political talk. Do you honestly think that another party or PM would do things differently. What a joke. When it comes to waging war especially when it's with someone like China, everyone will think carefully and hope for a diplomatic resolution. If they don't they are idiots.

All these arm chair generals asking for a strike. All of you should pick up a gun and go to the frontline. It's easy to make those comments from your house. Another when you think about 2 million army strong countries going to war.

Besides this is a test by the Chinese. They will leave, they are testing our decision making abilities. The calmest person in this scenario wins. By downplaying the intrusion, you are saying to the Chinese, who are trying to be equals with the US and Russia, that what they are doing is not important enough to get worried about. That will piss them off more, the one that overreacts first will loose respect in the global arena.

At the moment, China is involved in a standoff with Japan, they hate the Japanese with a passion. If they engage the Japanese, the US gets involved. No picnic for the Chinese.
The Chinese are in a dispute with the Phillipines, another US ally. They are sparring with the Vietnamese. Not to mention the whole Korean Peninsula almost at war.

China has a lot on its plate. They are, IMO, at their weakest point militarily. There are too many countries positioning against it at the moment. Their experiment in Indian territory, is foolish at the moment. They cannot sustain this with so few troops. And the Indian Army will be all over them if they get aggressive.

India wins by being firm but by not overreacting. As long as we don't give up anything to get them out, the Chinese will leave on their own.

Being strong doesn't mean starting a fight every chance you get. It means picking your battles.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 03 May 2013 06:35

Wow, all this political talk. Do you honestly think that another party or PM would do things differently. What a joke. When it comes to waging war especially when it's with someone like China, everyone will think carefully and hope for a diplomatic resolution. If they don't they are idiots.


Yes I really do think that a strong leadership would have reacted differently. The joke is your whole post.
This situation is imposed on us and we are reacting by comparing it with an "Acne".

All these arm chair generals asking for a strike. All of you should pick up a gun and go to the frontline. It's easy to make those comments from your house. Another when you think about 2 million army strong countries going to war.


For a change, how about sending the second largest army on this planet which is maintained by the tax payers of this country.

Besides this is a test by the Chinese. They will leave, they are testing our decision making abilities. The calmest person in this scenario wins. By downplaying the intrusion, you are saying to the Chinese, who are trying to be equals with the US and Russia, that what they are doing is not important enough to get worried about. That will piss them off more, the one that overreacts first will loose respect in the global arena.


Your comment is akin to if someone slaps you, present your other cheek. This will piss them more !

At the moment, China is involved in a standoff with Japan, they hate the Japanese with a passion. If they engage the Japanese, the US gets involved. No picnic for the Chinese.
The Chinese are in a dispute with the Phillipines, another US ally. They are sparring with the Vietnamese. Not to mention the whole Korean Peninsula almost at war.
China has a lot on its plate. They are, IMO, at their weakest point militarily. There are too many countries positioning against it at the moment. Their experiment in Indian territory, is foolish at the moment. They cannot sustain this with so few troops. And the Indian Army will be all over them if they get aggressive.

This is gem, the crux of your whole post. Chinese plate is full n yet they r able to do this kind of overtures. They are military weakest and still have the audacity and courage to send their soldiers across LAC. You need spine and courage to act and react. Chinese have shown that but Indians are looking for clearsil to resolve the matter.

India wins by being firm but by not overreacting. As long as we don't give up anything to get them out, the Chinese will leave on their own.
Being strong doesn't mean starting a fight every chance you get. It means picking your battles.

Jagat Guru Sri Sri 1008 Raj Ji with his divine vision has made a prophecy that Chinese will leave on their own provided we don't give up anything. What that means ?? Only jagat guru can explain that !!
Also please do explain when was the last time India picked its own battle against China !!

I am referring your post to Oxford and Merriam Webster so that they can update the meaning of "Oxymoron" ! Never seen so many contradiction in a single post .

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby pentaiah » 03 May 2013 06:58

Time for poll on BRF

I think this is big hoax by anti nationals that PRC has occupied some 19 km

I think this is a diversion from pressing economic issues and the ascendency of NaMo
Congress has shifted the focus from NaMo to Ladakh.

Ladakh does it relate to war Ladaku

What if we connect the nations railway systems from Tibet to Jammu tawi and improve trade
Lets make lemonade out of lemons

Sometimes I feel it's all a bad dream we are solid BRICs nations

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Aditya_V » 03 May 2013 08:00

For those supporting the Govt, Nobody is supporting just use artillery or kill those 30 soldiers. But by cancelling Denel deals, indigenous manufacture of 155 mm shells and other key acquisitions, not upgrading border infrastructure, the Chinese feel they have enough upper hand to play hanky panky.

Rather than meekly lying and justifying this as inadvertent and mis perception by Chinese(finding excuses for them) , one would expect the FM to call this a major intrusion, start building up capabilities and start doing stuff like shooting those Chinese Dogs which they brought, Mine the ingress and outgress route, have enough Sams to curtails Chinese helos, keep or artillery and other assets ready, Play real loud music, bright lights at the Chinese soldiers, fire random shots at night and make their stay uncomfortable.

Hopefully rather than the HM and FM saying the Chinese have not intruded and its only no mans land, no a blade of grass grows there, they will or the Chinese will atleast cancel high level visits.

Looks like the Chinese have seen the stupidity of cancelling Denel including the Nalanda manufacture of shells, soltam upgrades, endless delay in artillery, Pinaka and other purchases and have decided they have a window to teach India an anther lesson. We pray that they fail miserably and get a bloody nose.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Brando » 03 May 2013 08:52

Regardless of Chinese bravado now, by Oct-Nov those troops will scurry back to their base as "arctic gear" and regular supplies are not going to cut it in Winter in those regions. So there is a natural deadline to this circus.

Let's hope the Indian Government will have the fortitude and the wisdom to prevent the Chinese from reinforcing their position with more men and equipment in the interim.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_20296 » 03 May 2013 11:19

I Like Aditya_V's solution to the issue :D its real good

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby kit » 03 May 2013 11:41

There is nothing 'localised' about any chinese action.Its well thought off and perfectly timed. GOI is as usual caught with its pants down ! Scared and having no strategic compulsions !! Wonder how it existed .. There are indeed quite a few options for the GOI which can be done under the radar .. by publicizing the whole drama the Chinese are forcing GOI s hands.. it thinks it can get a pro quo deal. So we are all watching.. this is just the beginning .. that idiot who called this 'localized' is at best an ostrich trying to bury his head in the sand.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby pralay » 03 May 2013 17:59

I feel
We should start talking of Serious Measures to reduce of trade balance with China (reducing Chinese import by banning few.
If that don't help start banning Chinese goods step by step.

Raising war rhetoric suddenly may also help,(Call Indians in China to be prepared leave that country at short notice. Or ask them to keep away from densely populated cities at least :!: )

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby raj-ji » 03 May 2013 21:16

PrithviRajChauhan wrote:
Wow, all this political talk. Do you honestly think that another party or PM would do things differently. What a joke. When it comes to waging war especially when it's with someone like China, everyone will think carefully and hope for a diplomatic resolution. If they don't they are idiots.


Yes I really do think that a strong leadership would have reacted differently. The joke is your whole post.
This situation is imposed on us and we are reacting by comparing it with an "Acne".

All these arm chair generals asking for a strike. All of you should pick up a gun and go to the frontline. It's easy to make those comments from your house. Another when you think about 2 million army strong countries going to war.


For a change, how about sending the second largest army on this planet which is maintained by the tax payers of this country.

Besides this is a test by the Chinese. They will leave, they are testing our decision making abilities. The calmest person in this scenario wins. By downplaying the intrusion, you are saying to the Chinese, who are trying to be equals with the US and Russia, that what they are doing is not important enough to get worried about. That will piss them off more, the one that overreacts first will loose respect in the global arena.


Your comment is akin to if someone slaps you, present your other cheek. This will piss them more !

At the moment, China is involved in a standoff with Japan, they hate the Japanese with a passion. If they engage the Japanese, the US gets involved. No picnic for the Chinese.
The Chinese are in a dispute with the Phillipines, another US ally. They are sparring with the Vietnamese. Not to mention the whole Korean Peninsula almost at war.
China has a lot on its plate. They are, IMO, at their weakest point militarily. There are too many countries positioning against it at the moment. Their experiment in Indian territory, is foolish at the moment. They cannot sustain this with so few troops. And the Indian Army will be all over them if they get aggressive.

This is gem, the crux of your whole post. Chinese plate is full n yet they r able to do this kind of overtures. They are military weakest and still have the audacity and courage to send their soldiers across LAC. You need spine and courage to act and react. Chinese have shown that but Indians are looking for clearsil to resolve the matter.

India wins by being firm but by not overreacting. As long as we don't give up anything to get them out, the Chinese will leave on their own.
Being strong doesn't mean starting a fight every chance you get. It means picking your battles.

Jagat Guru Sri Sri 1008 Raj Ji with his divine vision has made a prophecy that Chinese will leave on their own provided we don't give up anything. What that means ?? Only jagat guru can explain that !!
Also please do explain when was the last time India picked its own battle against China !!

I am referring your post to Oxford and Merriam Webster so that they can update the meaning of "Oxymoron" ! Never seen so many contradiction in a single post .



:rotfl: :rotfl:

You are a tax payer so therefore you have the right to send the Army off to war. Wow amazing argument.

Forget oxymoron, you have the moron part covered in spades.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 03 May 2013 21:25

^+1
:D

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Y I Patel » 03 May 2013 22:48

If we take the current information at face value, then the Chinese incursion is more about sending a message than with any escalatory military intent. This is no Kargil, based on facts presented:

- All we know is that the incursion is in one specific location, 19 km on Indian side of LAC. So does this mean that there are no supporting posts within 19 km of this one particular bunch of tents? What about arty support? What do the other deployments in the area indicate? I am sure that by now Indian forces have every available asset scanning the area for telltale signs of supporting deployments; if there were any, we would have heard.

- The position is not in a geographically dominating location. It is across from a nallah, in a valley, and in plain sight and firing range of Indian forces. It is close to an ALG, but does not seem like it overlooks or threatens DBO ALG. A really threatening position would be like what the Pakis did in Kargil, at the several locations where they intruded.

So this is no Kargil, and it plainly intended to not serve a threatening military purpose. It is exposed and can be cut off by a threatening patrol from IA, or by a counter position by IA between it and the LAC.

So what gives? Are they deliberatly baiting India, to see if India will escalate and aggravate the situation? Or is it along the lines the press is saying; to wit, a means of signalling their unhappiness about Indian developments close to the LAC?

Either way, it really serves no purpose to indulge in a frenzy of breastbeating. We need to learn from the disastrous forward policy that led up to 1962. At that time, something very similar happened, but from the Indian side! India put up such posts in militarily indefensible areas, and the posts were promptly surrounded by PLA leading to severe escalations. IMHO the Indian government is striking the right balance in its media management, with the right mix of articles that express concern and signial conciliation at the same time. One just hopes that the oppposition is also part of this game plan, and is not playing the role of a loose cannon.
Last edited by Y I Patel on 03 May 2013 22:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Prem » 03 May 2013 22:54

Chinese checking Massa's intention, preparedness and intention by needling all of their neighbors?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 03 May 2013 23:31

:rotfl: :rotfl:

You are a tax payer so therefore you have the right to send the Army off to war. Wow amazing argument.

Forget oxymoron, you have the moron part covered in spades.


If you really want LOL , read ur previous post again (slowly and loudly).
U know what amazing is ?
Ur power of deducing ur own meanings from someone responses.
U r the gifted one, U must be having an IQ of a Domestic Turkey ( with due respect to Turkeys ).
And for the argument part, nothing comes close to ur "China is weakest at the moment" "They will leave on their own" prophecy.
oh man, u r a talking dictionary. Ur above response can be referred to Webster so that they can update "Moron" definition !

@Shiv feel free to -1 :)
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Reason: One, do not use SMS language on BRF. It is You not U, "are" not "r". Two, do not indulge in personal attacks. Report when you are a victim.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby NRao » 04 May 2013 04:34

UAVs Images Show Chinese Troops Intruding into India

Chinese soldiers had come forward in the three adjoining areas of Daulat Beg Oldi at the time when one of its platoons intruded there 19 km into the Indian territory on April 15 in Eastern Ladakh.

Images taken by the UAVs deployed in Eastern Ladakh have suggested that Chinese platoons had come forward inside the Indian territory in three adjoining areas around the same time the intrusion in Eastern Ladakh took place, sources said here.

However, the Chinese troops went back later from those areas perhaps due to the increasing pressure on the issue, they said.

Chinese soldiers had come 19 km into the Indian territory on April 15 and have pitched five tents on the Raki Nala face-off site and an Indian camp has been positioned opposite to their's at a distance of around 100 metres.

After the incursion, India had halted the patrolling by its troops in the DBO area, which falls under the 3 Division of the Army.

The particular area in which the incursion has taken place falls under the Indo-Tibetan Border Police which used to patrol there, sources said.

The two sides have held three flag meetings since April 15 to resolve the issue but the stand-off is continuing and Chinese have rejected Indian demands for an unconditional withdrawal from there.

In the meetings, the PLA has demanded that India dismantle its key infrastructure development work there including the Daulat Beg Oldi air field and roads built in forward areas near the Line of Actual Control.

India has rejected the Chinese demands in this regard and has rejected the allegations that the present situation was its creation.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby shiv » 04 May 2013 08:09

PrithviRajChauhan wrote:

<worthless content deleted>

@Shiv feel free to -1 :)



Thank you for your permission your exalted highness. Your unquestioning agreement with my estimate of the true value of your own post is heartening.

But this one was a -2
:D

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 04 May 2013 13:43

AW&ST: China developing four high-bypass turbofans,major turboshaft and an engine for a medium-large helo (pg 24 )

http://in.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416263496&e=true

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby archan » 04 May 2013 15:44

Please avoid referring to each other in person. Disagree, laugh, enjoy, kindly stay away from questioning anyone's intelligence.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby sourab_c » 05 May 2013 08:14

Was this posted? from NYtimes

In China-India Border Battle, Some Echoes of Run-Up to 1962 War

So everyone thinks that Congress has its head under the sand except the Congress. Notice how Nehru tried to defend his strategy in 1962 by making false bold statements while doing nothing on the ground, as MMS is doing now.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_23455 » 05 May 2013 09:46

sourab_c wrote:Was this posted? from NYtimes

In China-India Border Battle, Some Echoes of Run-Up to 1962 War

So everyone thinks that Congress has its head under the sand except the Congress. Notice how Nehru tried to defend his strategy in 1962 by making false bold statements while doing nothing on the ground, as MMS is doing now.


It's more newsworthy to draw parallels from 1962 than to actually treat the situation - both the local and big picture one on its own merits - NYT has fallen into the same trap, not for the first time.

The big picture is that China is doing this not only to India right now but across the board. The big picture response from us also has to be in those "New Cold War" terms.

In local terms, if a parallel has to be drawn at all it is with 1986/Sumdorong Chu. The differences in the kind of people you had in key decision making positions then and now is why there is a markedly different response and flogging just MMS is just an oversimplification of the way these things work.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby svinayak » 05 May 2013 10:25

The 1962 war from the Chinese perspective had one goal: to annex more formally a region in Eastern Ladakh, called Aksai Chin, through which they had quietly built a road in the late 1950s connecting Tibet to Xinjiang. The region was needed because the Kunling mountains immediately north and the Takla Makan desert farther north, came in the way of a route entirely within Chinese territory. See the region and road here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_2004.jpg

Aksai Chin, though putatively in Indian territory (per an agreement between the British and China in 1914, which the Chinese initialed but did not quite ratify, and which the Chinese communists after 1949 denounced as imperialist) was not actively patrolled by the Indian army.

Another disputed region with similar history was "Outer Tibet," which the British, and later India called, "North East Frontier Agency" (NEFA), now the Indian state, Arunachal Pradesh. This lay hundreds of miles southeast.

In 1962, the Chinese conducted a swift offensive in NEFA overrunning the poorly prepared Indian troops in weeks and then paradoxically withdrew just as quickly. Overtly, as the NY Times stories from that period show, they didn't gloat, almost gave the impression of magnanimity.

But that was because the NEFA action was a diversionary move to solidify their defenses in Aksai Chin, which they've kept since.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_23455 » 05 May 2013 11:56

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wow! If Freudian proof was ever needed as to how deeply 1962 has scarred our pysche!

However,

http://www.fandm.edu/politics/politically-uncorrected-column/2002-politically-uncorrected/fighting-the-last-war

Sadly enough, fighting the last war, is often a losing proposition. Conditions change. Objectives change. Strategies change. And you must change. If you don't, you lose.

Ironically, those that believe this is "just like 1962 all over again" are giving an implicit thumbs up to the current govt. , whose entire strategy right now seems to be to avoid a Nehru-like Forward Policy, and avoid giving the Chinese a casus belli

One should respect one's enemy. China is not Pakistan, with dreams of "territorial revenge" that will be gained by engineering an incident. Even Pakistan in Kargil had tactical surprise. The Chinese don't have that here or on in their island disputes.

Gauging the enemy's intent is the hardest part of this job and the reason why the journalists have it mostly wrong.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby P Chitkara » 05 May 2013 14:06

Why don't we do a similar act with them and then see their response?

Hey! I just woke up and realized what am I asking from the current regime is waaaay beyond the current regime which is a band of criminals without any b@@ls. :evil:

JE Menon - Poster warned

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Samay » 05 May 2013 15:36

Whole bunch of inept people with absolutely no patriotism inside had been waiting and they got their chance when UPA came into power.
Their main strategy in politics had always been to let the dacoits steal and not do anything unless they are made sure by the people that they will be rewarded through votes.
In view of this , there are hundreds of examples . one such example is keeping the economy at hindu rate of growth for decades until it became urgent to do something else.
If we expect them to be proactive, then we are at fault.
They have made all components of the govt. machinery impotent and shaky with no accountability at all.
On the other hand China always liked these people and nothing better can happen in their policy towards India if such people come to power.
When they rule everything rots and the chinese wait and watch until the whole system becomes so rotten that it can't protect the country even from smallest of threats, and then they cash their chance .
If china doest cash such an opportunity then they must be sleeping , and if they do so, then it is this lesson they teach us again and again.
Its time we develop a habit of prolonged hatred towards such politicians,their system of governing and everything that supports them,strengthens them.
If we do not do so then we will keep pointing fingers on everything except ourselves. People must take a vow not to cast even a single vote for CONgrez for the next 15-20 yrs and never vote any politian of any party who cannot deliver when it is required.


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby asgkhan » 05 May 2013 20:21

Breaking news on Times of India, both armies to w/d from DBO.

So we need to be watchful on what did the Govt agree as quid pro quo for the withdrawal:

1. Dismantling of existing bunkers.
2. Reduction of patrols.
3. Allow chinese domination on an peaks.
4. Reduce the support for Tibetans.

Hopefully some leaks will start appearing in the press as to what the traitors are upto.

The opposition better not be sleeping with this govt in power.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby asgkhan » 05 May 2013 20:23

China-India stand-off at Ladakh ends, armies withdraw: Press Trust of India

Ladakh: India and China have simultaneously withdrawn their troops from the face-off point at Daulat Beg Oldie near the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, PTI has reported, quoting official sources. Reportedly, the agreement was reached after high-level negotiations from both sides and the withdrawal was completed at 7:30 pm.

This ends the deadlock that began when Chinese troops set up camp 19 kms into Indian territory in the Depsang Valley in Ladakh. Soon after, India has set up its own post just 500 kms away.

Three flag meetings between commanders on both sides had failed to resolve the stand-off. India wanted the Chinese troops to withdraw completely; China denied any incursion.

Not satisfied with the way talks to resolve the issue were proceeding, India had indicated that it would perhaps cancel External Affairs Minister Salman Khursid's upcoming trip to China, sources had told NDTV earlier this week. Mr Khurshid is scheduled to visit Beijing on May 9. The Chinese Premier, Le Keqiang, is scheduled to visit New Delhi on May 20.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/china ... dia-363030

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Thomas Kolarek » 05 May 2013 20:38

Just read in Twitter, which sums up any Patriotic Indians thought in 140 words.
So China withdraws from India, India withdraws from India & the 'standoff is resolved'. Chinese must be having a hearty laugh.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby Austin » 05 May 2013 20:43


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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby skganji » 05 May 2013 21:13

GOI is weak and is run by a puppet MMS and a remote controller PM . It can't take any strong decisions against either China or Pakistan. One should expect this current scenario be handled by Military response rather than through meetings. A country like India can't be militarily weak. Look at Israel. Just a small country and doesn't really care to scare all the Arab neighbours. The country should stop electing the same people again and again. India needs a change in the leadership at the top. MMS must go in asap.
By the way with the so called standoff ending, what happened to all the chinese tents in Ladakh.
Last edited by archan on 05 May 2013 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: You have been told a couple days before but refuse to learn. Second warning.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby subhamoy.das » 05 May 2013 21:51

we need to wait and watch what UPA has given up in return for this withdrawal. BTW, it seems that India has built a port in Iran which is further up the Arabian sea, with good land access to Afganistan, to check mate the Chinese move in Paki port of gwadar. Hard to believe that UPA is capable of doing this...

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby archan » 05 May 2013 22:35

skganji wrote:GOI is weak and is run by a puppet MMS and a remote controller PM . It can't take any strong decisions against either China or Pakistan. One should expect this current scenario be handled by Military response rather than through meetings. A country like India can't be militarily weak. Look at Israel. Just a small country and doesn't really care to scare all the Arab neighbours. The country should stop electing the same people again and again. India needs a change in the leadership at the top. MMS must go in asap.
By the way with the so called standoff ending, what happened to all the chinese tents in Ladakh.

This is a militay watch thread, meant to be a repository of news and articles related to their developments, acquisitions, partnerships etc. Kindly don't whine on GoI here. There is plenty of opportunity in other threads. Less discussion, more news.

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby member_25399 » 06 May 2013 00:01

What are the 'modalities' as indicated by the news report. What were the Chinese aiming for all through this time and what did we ended giving up ?
Can't believe they withdraw without getting anything in return. Something is missing here :-?

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Postby skganji » 06 May 2013 01:05

archan wrote:This is a militay watch thread, meant to be a repository of news and articles related to their developments, acquisitions, partnerships etc. Kindly don't whine on GoI here. There is plenty of opportunity in other threads. Less discussion, more news.

Got it. Will stick to the topic in future. Don't need a warning for this .


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