PLA-AF Airborne Early Warning & Control ProgramsSingha wrote:why exactly have the pakis been fobbed off with the round dish thing while PLAAF is presumably going to use KJ200 as their std low end solution?
The purpose of this thread is provide some job opportunities to Chinese posters. This is part of our trade agreement with China. They need to earn their 50cents/post. Please be kind Rakshaks.D Roy wrote:Okay I have a question,
does this thread serve any other purpose apart from the following:
1. give chicom drones free bandwidth for jpeg chicomgiri. because all I see is pictures of chicom hardware being posted without any real discussion on their purported capabilities, impact, numbers etc.
2. Threats by chicom drones against India.
3. Occasional Snake oil about the Chinese economy.
Ka-32 helicopters to resurrect in China
26.09.2012
Beijing will begin the production of Russian multipurpose Ka-32 helicopters, Chinese media say. This aircraft has long been a pride of the national aviation industry. It is often used for solve specific problems under extreme conditions. Spokespeople for the Russian Helicopters confirmed the fact of negotiations with China on the subject.
Ka-32A11BC is a modernization of the multipurpose helicopter Ka-32, which is used for transporting people and cargoes, as well as for construction works, loading and unloading vessels. The chopper can also be used in the forest industry. The aircraft of this type are used in fire fighting, search, rescue and patrol operations.
Noteworthy, the aircraft is based on the technological platform used for the Russian military helicopter for the Navy, as the Ka-32 is a civil version of the military anti-submarine deck-based Ka-27PL helicopter. The forerunner of the Ka-32 was the Ka-22 rotorcraft, which, the USSR declined to develop after two air crashes.
According to Chinese publication People's Daily, the first major project for the production of Russian helicopters in China will kick off in Beijing. The sides implement four programs within the scope of the project: airport expansion, sales, service and training of crew.
Print version Font Size Send to friendThe main manufacturer of helicopters of this type is JSC Kumertau Aircraft Production Enterprise. Spokespeople for holding company Russian Helicopters deny the existence of agreements to open a factory to assemble Ka-32 helicopters in China. Likewise, the Chinese do not say that they are going to build the Russian helicopters already tomorrow. The construction period will take about two years, the amount of investments - 4 billion yuan. According to estimates of the business community, the company's turnover in five years will make up 65 billion yuan a year.
In early September, at ILA-2012 air show in Berlin, General Director of Russian Helicopters Holding, Dmitry Petrov, said that the holding was studying the possibility to organize the licensed assembly of helicopters in China. "If we, together with our Chinese partners, come to believe that assembling a model in the People's Republic of China will be more profitable than export shipments, then we will start working on the organization of the assembly production there." The official stressed out that it was more profitable for companies to create their own assembly lines at the order of not less than 50 medium-class helicopters.
According to the Chinese publication, the first phase of the project will produce 30 large helicopters. The annual production output will make up about 30 billion yuan. At the same time, the project includes the establishment of structures for design, research and development works.
During five or seven years, the Chinese intend to fully master the technology and localize the production of parts on the level of more than 60 percent. The delivery of the license for the production of the aircraft is a common condition of the Chinese Government to enter the Chinese market.
The Ka-32A11BC is the only Russian helicopter that was certified by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) in 2009. The aircraft is certified in North and South Americas as well as in Asia. Technically, it can be sold in the markets of most countries of the world. It is also the most popular model of Kamov Design Bureau abroad. There were large deliveries made to South Korea, where the fleet of Ka-32 exceeds 60 aircraft. There were more than 140 aircraft built in total, which operate in more than 30 countries worldwide.
Thus, Russian Helicopters may help China establish the production of one of its best aircraft to enter the market with this model. According to the recently published new edition of the state program for the development of domestic aircraft industry, Russia's share on the market of helicopters in 2025 is expected to make up 13.9 percent in civil and 15 percent in the military segment. In 2010, the index was 6 and 12 percent, respectively. The previous version of the program had the goal to increase the share of Russia in the civil helicopter market to 27 percent. According to Russian Helicopters, the share of the enterprise on the world market in 2011 made up 14 percent in money terms.
"In any case, any manufacturer considers expansion in the global or regional markets as an important element of the development strategy. In this respect, Russia should not be a mere supplier of natural resources, but it should also export sophisticated high-tech equipment. In this regard, our helicopter industry that has a powerful holding to effectively promote its products on the world market, has chosen the right strategy. Today the market is getting globalized, and one must be present in all segments. The holding produces quite competitive products and in this respect one should do everything to try various forms of cooperation and conquer new markets," chief editor of National Defense Journal, Igor Korotchenko believes.
During the APEC summit, President Vladimir Putin also spoke about the cooperation with Chinese partners in the field of aviation in two directions. "The first one is the creation of a large state-of-the-art helicopter on the basis of a Russian helicopter," he said. The second direction is the development of a wide-body aircraft, Putin added.
Not that long ago, it was reported that the talks between the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and the Chinese state-run concern Comac about the creation of a joint venture to develop a new long-range wide-body aircraft on the basis of IL-96 were close to completion.
In 2011, Russia launched the budget funding of the program of the high-speed helicopter. The range of the aircraft will make up 1,500 kilometers, whereas the cruising speed will reach 450 miles per hour. Russian Helicopters was also developing Mi-X1 and Ka-92 choppers, hoping to get the funding from the federal budget on the base of 50x50 scheme. In 2011, the federal budget allocated 400 million rubles for the project, and in 2012 - 700 million rubles.
It was planned that the first experimental models would appear from 2015 to 2017. The deadline was then pushed back to 2018.
Vitaly Salnik
Pravda.Ru
This plane is so ugly it can scare the dhoti off any Indian. My ISP froze while loading those pics. In general we are already scared of China - but this one should be banned for vulgarity.Don wrote:I love you guys.
krishnan wrote:no serial no count just sea of photos and talk of big quantity but in actully it just single flyingsarabpal.s wrote:...prototypephototype.
What is the detection range for these planes? Can they distinguish between Sukhois & Chengdus?Chinese KJ 2OOO
^^nitinr wrote:In the first few pics posted by Don on top of page, There are 2 wires going from top of cockpit to that white cylinder like thing on top of vertical stablizer.
1. what are these wires for ??
2. what is that white cylinder rlike thing
knockoff called Y-8.AN-12 transport a/c from Russia.
One of them is on display at Air force museum, palam. Magnificent bird.rohitvats wrote:I don't know how many here were able to figure this out but the air frame for these ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT aircraft is the venerable AN-12 transport a/c from Russia. Before the advent of IL-76 in IAF inventory, these were the heavies in the Indian service...starting from 1962 onward, these birds did yeoman service for the nation.
Good catch Singha, but the system is not Israeli its British. China purchased 6~8 Skymaster airborne surveillance radar systems from British electronics manufacturer Racal (now Thales) in the 1990s. This is one of the oldest maritime surveillance system in the PLA Navy but I agree with Shiv its very ugly.Singha wrote:that huge nose reminds me of the first phalcon system sold to Chile.
US also has/had a bunch of C-135 type with that huge nose for some intel mission(cant remember the exact role now)
with modern beam steering and high azimuth radars , plus the T shaped MESA array possible, noses can be more normal now.
Thanks DavidD for that update. But it is still interesting for India to see the massive hike in transport capability being intended. I am sure the russians will want to serve that piece of the neo-IL76 pie that PLAAF is asking for. sooner or later.DavidD wrote:Well, that's one way to put it...after the Russians opened up the second production line, they doubled the prices, and even though China was willing to pay the newly imposed prices they STILL could not deliver them on time (sounds familiar?) The deal is dead now, as China has decided to buy some used Belarussian IL-76's refurbished in Russia as a stop-gap measure, and focus on the domestic development of Y-20 instead.
that looks like a plane sitting on a missile.Singha wrote:while that nose is not pretty, the Nimrod AEW had a uglier nose and one in the back as well. only the british could come up with that.
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/wp-content/ ... aew3_1.jpg
the wingtips are ESM pods, which the PLAAF bird has atop the tailfin.
China to Shoot more powerful anti-satellite weapon: Dong Neng-2
2012-10-16 — (by Bill Gertz) China’s military is set to conduct a test of a new and more capable anti-satellite missile that United States intelligence agencies say can knock out strategic satellites in high-earth orbit, according to U.S. officials.
However, a recent intelligence assessment said the test of the Dong Neng-2 direct ascent anti-satellite (ASAT) weapon is being delayed in an apparent effort to avoid upsetting President Barack Obama’s reelection bid, said officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Intelligence reports from September and this month revealed China will test fire the new DN-2 missile from a ground base sometime in early to mid November.
The missile is described by intelligence agencies as a high-earth orbit interceptor designed to destroy satellites by ramming them at high speeds. The intelligence reports called the new missile a strategically significant counterspace weapon, said the officials familiar with the reports.
Testing a high-earth orbit anti-satellite missile would represent a major advance in China’s satellite-killing capability, which has been underway for more than a decade. High-earth orbit, also known as geosynchronous orbit, is the location of major communications and navigation satellites, which orbit at a distance of between 12,000 miles and 22,236 miles from earth.
China’s last ASAT test in 2007 destroyed a low-earth orbit weather satellite about 558 miles in space, causing an orbiting debris field of tens of thousands of pieces of metal that U.S. officials say will threaten orbiting satellites and human space travelers for 100 years.
U.S. officials said it is unlikely China will conduct an impact test of a kinetic kill vehicle against an aging weather satellite as occurred in 2007, although the possibility of a second, major debris-causing test cannot be ruled out.
Instead, officials said the test most likely will be a demonstration of a precision-guided direct ascent missile flying out tens of thousands of miles.
“If the United States loses the strategic high ground of high-earth orbit [from a Chinese high-altitude ASAT missile], we are in real trouble,” said one U.S. official.
U.S. Global Positioning System satellites, used for both navigation and precision missile guidance, are located in medium-earth orbit, or about 12,000 miles, and thus would be vulnerable to the new DN-2.
Whether or not the test is successful, development of the new high-altitude DN-2 ASAT reveals that China’s military is planning for future high-orbit space warfare despite seeking international agreements banning weapons in space.
China’s January 2007 ASAT test drew protests from the United States and other spacefaring nations, who saw it as a major threat to satellites used for both military and civilian purposes. That test also produced tens of thousands of pieces of space debris which threaten satellites.
A second possibility is the DN-2 missile test will be fired against a target missile, as occurred in 2010 as part of a joint Chinese ASAT-missile defense test.
Pentagon spokesmen declined to comment on the DN-2 ASAT program.
Michael Pillsbury, a former Reagan administration defense policymaker, stated in a 2007 report to Congress that Chinese military writers advocated covert deployment of sophisticated anti-satellite weapons system like the kind now being developed by the People’s Liberation Army for use against the United States “in a surprise manner without warning.”
“Even a small scale anti-satellite attack in a crisis against 50 U.S. satellites—assuming a mix of targeted military reconnaissance, navigation satellites, and communication satellites—could have a catastrophic effect not only on U.S. military forces, but on the U.S. civilian economy,” said Pillsbury, currently with the Hudson Institute. Chinese military writings also have discussed attacks on GPS satellites that are located in high-earth orbit, he stated.
ASAT a top-secret program
China’s anti-satellite missile system is a key element of the communist state’s growing arsenal of asymmetric warfare weapons, and remains one of Beijing’s most closely guarded military secrets.
Defense officials have said that with as few as 24 ASAT missiles, China could severely weaken U.S. military operations by disrupting global communications and military logistics, as well as by limiting celestial navigation systems used by high-technology weapons. Such an attack also would severely degrade U.S. intelligence gathering efforts against global targets, a key strategic military advantage.
A U.S. official familiar with reports of the ASAT test said China’s delay in conducting the test until after the Nov. 6 election is a sign Beijing wants to help President Obama’s reelection campaign. “It implies they’d rather have him reelected,” said the official.
The Obama administration has adopted conciliatory policies toward China’s military buildup and its large-scale human rights abuses. Critics say the administration also failed to hold Beijing accountable for its unfair trade practices and currency manipulation.
The administration’s questionable policies were revealed by a 2009 State Department cable that quoted Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as saying, “How do you deal toughly with your banker?”—a reference to China’s potentially coercive leverage over the United States through its large holdings of U.S. debt securities.
Richard Fisher, a Chinese military affairs specialist, said little is known publicly of the DN-2 missile. However, the DN-2 may be China’s designation for an ASAT missile and kill vehicle combination mounted on launchers dubbed KT-2, or KT-2A. This ASAT weapon is based on DF-31 or DF-31A road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missiles, respectively.
“ASATs derived from the KT-2 and KT-2A space launch vehicles have the potential to reach high earth orbits used by many strategic U.S. surveillance, communication, and navigation satellites,” said Fisher, with the International Assessment and Strategy Center.
Fisher said in 2002, during a military show in China, the KT-2A was touted by Chinese officials as having a 2,000-kilogram payload that could reach high-earth orbits.
“Since its appearance a decade ago, the KT series of space launch vehicles presaged what we now know, that a key Chinese strategic goal has been to deny outer space as a sanctuary to support American military operations,” Fisher said.
A KT-1 microsatellite launcher was displayed at the Zhuhai air show in 2000, and “it was fairly obvious that this could become the basis for an ASAT, and it was used as the basis for the SC-19 ASAT demonstrated successfully in January 2007,” Fisher said.
Because China will not join a verifiable space control agreement, “Washington has little choice, if it is to continue to deter China militarily, but to build far greater redundancy, passive and active defenses for outer space,” he said.
Cables detail PRC’s first ASAT test
According to a classified Jan. 12, 2010, State Department cable made public by Wikileaks, China conducted its most recent ASAT test on Jan. 11 of that year.
According to the cable, an ASAT missile designated SC-19 was fired from China’s Korla Missile Test Complex and successfully intercepted a CSS-X-11 medium-range ballistic missile launched from the Shuangchengzi Space and Missile Center.
The two missiles were tracked by U.S. missile warning satellites to an intercept point at an altitude of about 155 miles in space.
Until then, the SC-19 had been used previously to boost China’s first successful direct-ascent anti-satellite intercept on Jan. 11, 2007, when a missile rammed into China’s FY-1C weather satellite.
“Previous SC-19 DA-ASAT flight-tests were conducted in 2005 and 2006,” the 2010 cable said. “This test is assessed to have furthered both Chinese ASAT and ballistic missile defense [BMD] technologies.”
The cable contained a U.S. protest note to China on the 2010 test seeking an explanation for Chinese officials about the purpose of the test and “what steps were taken to minimize the creation of orbital debris.”
The cable said that since the 2007 ASAT test, the United States had urged China not to conduct further space weapons tests.
An earlier cable revealed that U.S. intelligence agencies had advance word of the 2010 space weapons test, and noted that China was not expected to provide notification in advance of the test, which proved accurate.
Other State Department cables revealed conflicting statements from Chinese officials on whether China planned to conduct future ASAT tests. Chinese Foreign Ministry official He Yafei unequivocally stated to U.S. officials in June 2008 that China would not conduct future ASAT tests. In July, China Lt. Gen. Zhang Qinsheng said there were no plans for an ASAT test in the near future
Why is it perceived? Their all weather friend the Paakis have nothing good to say about their weapons either. The Qing class is a desperate buy after france and germany refused to sell them any subs. The cost aspect also plays a role. The F-22p was a last ditch buy after US refused to provide 5-6 OHP's that PN was hallucinating about. They failed to get the second hand Type-23's and finally settled for F-22p's.Austin wrote:^^ The problem with Chinese arms export is they do not have an established major client bases ( except Pakistan ) and it suffers from the reputation ( either real or perceived ) that its weapons are cheaper and poor quality and many even reversed engineered.
Else Chinese export will be limited to all weather friends and some dozen of aircraft/arms here and there
uh... like a 1970s four-stage SLV?Singha wrote:I like the small 4-stage KT1, kind of like a efficient Shourya to keep mass-fraction low as it goes along.
India should adapt the shourya to this end as well.
Lol, nice one.rajanb wrote: At least it wasn't stolen. It is wong to steal. But then China is full of wongs
And in war, you guys will use a lot of wongs as cannon fodder as you did in 62.
Too many wongs dont make a right.
Well, apparently the J-11B haven't been doing too well. Even though they had PLAAF top end pilots with years of J-11A experience, they lost in combat drills/exercises to J-11A and also to J-10A.DavidD wrote: the few hundred kg's saved by using more composites ala the J-11B, and it should still be a quite capable platform.
Of course it can and has been ruggedized, wasn't it 
Plus we are not talking about reaching escape velocities etc, so they can go a wee bit higher. Anyways, it is pointless to have it, since we have better tech than those cute little SLV motors.
