INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

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Jayram
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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Jayram » 03 Oct 2017 22:48

May explain why we are leasing another Chakra as well

Austin
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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 03 Oct 2017 23:02

Rakesh wrote:India's only nuclear submarine damaged in accident
https://theprint.in/2017/10/03/accident ... onar-dome/

India’s nuclear-powered submarine, INS Chakra, has suffered “some damage” in an accident and could require substantial repair work to get it back in shape. The attack submarine, obtained on a 10-year lease from Russia, has not sailed for a month and is berthed at its home port of Visakhapatnam for repairs.

Sources told The Print that the submarine — currently India’s only operational nuclear-powered vessel — suffered damage to its sonar dome in the accident. The sonar dome is located at the forward portion of the submarine, beneath the torpedo tubes. While details of the incident are yet to emerge, sources said that the damage could be the result of either a collision at sea or accidental scraping while entering the harbour. The Indian Navy refused to comment on the incident.

Repair work on the submarine is likely to be complicated given that the sonar dome is made of titanium, a difficult metal that requires both specialised machinery and manpower to work on. However, the indigenous Arihant nuclear armed submarines are also being made in Visakhapatnam and that could help.


Sounds BS , sonar dome is never made of titanium but made from composite material transparent to sonar sound

Vivek K
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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Vivek K » 04 Oct 2017 00:03

Why is Chakra India's only nuclear submarine? Does the Arihant not count?

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Pratyush » 04 Oct 2017 07:11

Vivek K wrote:Why is Chakra India's only nuclear submarine? Does the Arihant not count?



Unsure why arihant was missed out on. Cause the report does mention arihant class being built in vishakhapattanam.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 04 Oct 2017 10:36

Sub collisions are being experienced in every major navy,particularly the two s'powers.RN subs regularly get entangled in trawler nets,etc. Vizag seems to be problematic as if I remember right,there was an earlier case of a vessel scraping the bottom,whatever while entering exiting the channel.It's why the dedicated N-sub base is being built elsewhere on the same coast.If it was only the dome,the damage would be slight,but "some damage" indicates a possibility that the sub's sonar may have also been damaged. That would be a major issue as replacing/repairing the sonar would be laborious and expensive too.If there's some titanium work to be done,then perhaps some part of the hull/bows affected also. We'll never know the full extent being such a classified asset,perhaps some years down the line,or unless some firang def. mag does some snooping!

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2017 19:50

Vizag harbor is problematic since colonial times. the Outer harbor is what made it a port.
Vishweshwariyya had recommended regular dredging to deepen the approach.
Looks like it was never done by the ever frugal and scam ridden governments.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby sum » 08 Oct 2017 14:15

FWIW Bharat Karnad postulates that the N sub lease is in trouble due to GoI not acting on Russian demands to keep few pro US IN officers off the Chakra ( which is their crown jewel Akula class and which demands Russian officer on board at all times)since MMS times.

The 2nd sub lease is also held up due to these and the issue of sub repair might lead to Chakra being taken back to Russia but never returning due to "extensive repairs"(until we act on Russian demands)

All this in his blog

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 09 Oct 2017 03:57

How have such pro-US submariners been detected? I agree that in a lease arrangement the req. for an RuN officer/s aboard is fine.However,it is a fact that given the bum-chumming in recent times by the IN,with apparent ambitions to be a USN lackey ,like OZ,Japan,etc., in an anti-China clique,Russian fears about the IN/IN personnel divulging critical info to the Yanquis with the poss. of IN assets being networked into the USN battleplans alarms Russia.These are legitimate concerns which the GOI/IN should resolve asap.Our entire N-Sub prog. is dependent upon Russia to a large degree.No other nation is providing us with such key tech.,esp. master-puppeteer Uncle Sam.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2017 02:10

ramana wrote:Vizag harbor is problematic since colonial times. the Outer harbor is what made it a port.
Vishweshwariyya had recommended regular dredging to deepen the approach.
Looks like it was never done by the ever frugal and scam ridden governments.


Philip, More I think about it the approach channel got silted as a result of the annual cyclones with storm surges.

Bet the dredging hasn't been done after Cyclone Hudhud which caused massive flooding and destroyed the airport.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 11 Oct 2017 14:41

Irrespective of what BK says it should be dangerous for any country penetrating any of our Subs program ATV, Akula or conventional ones that would be first threat to us.

There was news some weeks back of Center was banning foreign funded courses as officers were getting cultivated by foreign countries.

No more foreign govt-funded courses for Indian military officers: Centre

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 11 Oct 2017 17:12

Yes Ramana,I think you're quite right,Vizag appears to be as problematic as the Hooghly! IN fact an annual dredging of the channel should be done but as usual,"maintenance" is a dirty word in India. Until the dedicated N-sub base is completed and commissioned further down the coast,our subs traversing Vizag have to be very careful.

A v.good decision by the govt.,no funding for foreign courses.It is v.easy to indoctrinate some of our officers,esp. those who have a weakness for women.There was a case of an officer who had a relationship with a Russian girl who suffered. In the days of yore,every army had its trailing crowd of "courtesans" to give them a more honourable description, to entertain the troops.In most nations around the world today,both west and east, casual
relationships when abroad are par for the course,provided that they are acknowledged.In Britain just now,two sub officers were removed after it as found that they had liaisons /relationships with their female colleagues! After that action,the rest of the officers have threatened to esign if further action was being considered!

Given our very traditional attitudes over here,it would be v.easy to trap Indian mil. officers indulging in some horseplay
when abroad. One never knows how many have already been subject to such temptations.

Philip
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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 14 Oct 2017 17:06

Enjoy this good piece on the Akula class .Also gives for the first time a USN assessment of the Akula in comparison with an LA class US sub.

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-t ... 1819380681
How The Soviet Akula Changed Submarine Warfare
Gary Wetzel

An Akula-class Russian submarine of the Northern Fleet on the surface. Russian MoD.
In late 1984, when the first Akula submarine of the Soviet Navy put to sea, it immediately changed the way anti-submarine warfare would be conducted. With the Akula’s arrival the American submarine fleet would no longer enjoy the dramatic undersea advantages they had possessed since the end of the World War II. The Akula, which is Russian for shark, stunned NATO with its high-level of stealth, especially compared to any Soviet submarine before it.

That’s because in the battle for undersea supremacy, silence is the key to survival and victory. Prior to the Akula, the Soviets had already been making huge strides, making their submarines faster, deeper diving, and more heavily armed than American submarines. One submarine, the lone Papa SSGN, a nuclear-powered guided-missile sub, is still the world’s fastest after reaching 44.7 knots (around 51 mph) in 1970.

But the ability to make their submarines as quiet, or nearly as quiet, as American subs had long eluded them. The Akula dramatically changed that. Or, as William Perry—who would later become Secretary of Defense—told a House Armed Services Committee in 1989, “The free lunch was over.”

That free lunch had been the ability of American submarines, combined with other sensors, to locate and track Soviet subs, especially their ballistic missile submarines, seemingly at will. In one acknowledged account from a 1978 mission, the USS Batfish tracked a Soviet Yankee-class sub for 50 consecutive days. The Batfish began tracking the submarine above the Arctic Circle in the Norwegian Sea and trailed the Yankee for nearly 9,000 miles, maintaining contact for the duration of the Yankee’s deployment to the Western Atlantic, where it could launch missiles at the U.S.

But as the Batfish was making full use of the acoustic advantage American submarines enjoyed, the Soviets had begun to design and build a third generation of nuclear subs. These submarines would become the quietest subs the Soviets had ever constructed, having benefited from information passed along by John Walker, a U.S. Navy communications specialist who began spying for the Soviets in 1968. Among other things, Walker gave them information about a system of underwater hydrophone arrays on American subs that were strategically located to detect Soviet submarines.

Something else that helped? By the mid-’80s, the Japanese company Toshiba and the Norwegian firm Köngsberg Vaapenfabrikk was selling equipment to the Soviets that would allow them to make their submarines even quieter. Toshiba transferred sophisticated milling equipment while Köngsberg provided advanced computers to run that equipment, which would allow the Soviets a higher-degree of precision when it came to making propellers more muted.

But that was all before the third generation, and the Akula-class, whose name was given to it by NATO. (Previously, NATO had used the phonetic alphabet to name Soviet submarine classes, but the prolific Soviets had exhausted the alphabet with numerous designs.)

For their part, the Soviets called their newest class of nuclear-powered attack submarine Project 971, and also Shchuka-B, or pike, an aggressive species of fish. It would emerge an impressive machine, as beautiful as it was capable. With its streamlined sail, the submarine looks as though it belongs in the ocean’s depths.

Soviet shipyards would complete 15 Akulas between 1984 and 2009 in four sub-classes: seven Akula I (Project 971), six Improved Akulas (Project 971I), one Akula II (Project 971U) and one Akula III (Project 971M).


The lone Akula III, or Project 971M transits out of port. The modified towed array housing can be seen atop the rudder. Wikipedia Common
The Akula is a large submarine, with the earlier boats measuring 362 feet in length, along with a 45-foot beam that accommodates a double hull system common on Soviet subs. Later designs of the Akula II and Akula III would see the submarines increase eight feet, with the extra length designed to provide additional quieting measures.

At 12,770 tons submerged (the Akula II and III were larger, displacing 13,400 tons) the Akula was significantly bigger than the American Los Angeles-class, which was less than 7,000 tons submerged. Despite not being made of titanium, the Akula had a reported test depth of 1,970 feet. Of the Akulas built, all but one carried a large pod atop the rudder for a passive towed array sonar that the submarine would trail behind.


The size of the Akula’s towed array pod is evident here. Wikipedia Common
Built to carry a large number of weapons, the Akula was equipped with eight torpedo tubes arranged in two horizontal rows of four in the bow and could carry 40 torpedo launched weapons. Additionally, six tubes are visible in the bow of later built Akulas that house the MG-74 system, which launches very large decoys.

One thing the Akula lacked? A modern sonar suite that could truly exploit the submarine’s capabilities. The MGK-540 sonar is an advanced system, but still no match for the latest American systems, with their advanced processing power combined with a higher level of training.

Meanwhile, as the Cold War ended and the Russian economy began to falter, funds for continuing the production—or even finishing Akulas—started to evaporate. Many hulls would lay unfinished in a shipyard on the White Sea. Two Akulas that remained dormant, Rhys and Kuguar, would contribute significantly to the construction of the new Borei-class SSBN. The bow and stern of the unfinished Akulas were used to bookend the Yuri Dolgoruky and Aleksandr Nevsky, the first two Borei SSBNs.

The Akula’s Beginnings

For much of the Cold War’s early years, the American Navy saw the threat of Soviet submarines as two-fold: hunting for large groups of surface ships, like carrier battle groups or amphibious forces, and disrupting the Atlantic’s lines of communication. If the balloon went up in Western Europe and hordes of Soviet tanks rolled through the Iron Curtain, it would be a battle for survival, and to keep the fight going supplies would be needed from America. It was expected that American sub forces would have to battle swarms of Soviet submarines across the Atlantic as material and troops were convoyed to European ports, and much of the American effort was directed to accomplishing this goal.

The Soviets, however, had closely watched the battle in the Atlantic during World War II, when American and British aircraft and warships fought German U-boats of the Kriegsmarine in a bitter contest of wills that cost nearly 100,000 lives. For these reasons, the USSR had no interest in being part of a new battle in the Atlantic. Instead, the Soviets planned their submarines to be held closer to shore, attempting to disrupt the ports where the war supplies would be delivered. By attacking these merchant ships with torpedoes and mines, or by attacking the ports directly with nuclear weapons, the Soviet strategy was to not become entangled in war of attrition across the Atlantic Ocean.


A US Navy P-3 flies over a Victor II-class submarine in the Atlantic. US Navy photo
The Soviets also tried to keep close tabs on their American counterparts, deploying nuclear fast-attack subs to hunt down American submarines in case war broke out. These Soviet subs would loiter along the coast of submarine bases hoping to catch the trail of an elusive American boomer. Soviet subs also stalked the waters outside the American naval base at Holy Loch, Scotland hoping to find a submarine departing on patrol. In November 1974, the USS James Madison was departing Holy Loch when a Soviet Victor-class submarine found it the hard way after the James Madison submerged on top of it. Both subs were damaged and each returned to their respective ports unassisted.

Indeed, the problem for the Soviets was that they had terrible luck at finding the American boomers. Realizing this, the Soviets re-tasked some of their attack boats to guard their own subs, which were beginning to patrol close to the USSR as the range of their submarine launched ballistic missiles increased.

The Soviets made their largest gains in submarine construction in 1980 with the commissioning of the first Oscar-class sub. The U.S., as ever was already ahead, with 62 Los Angeles-class units entering service between 1976 and 1996. But the Oscar-class, which the Soviets called Project 949, was a true leap in technology from previous designs. A very large submarine, the Oscar would have a greater displacement than the American Ohio-class of ballistic missile submarines.

Four years later, the Soviets commissioned the Sierra and the Akula, the Sierra being built with a titanium hull while the Akula’s was constructed with steel, though the cost and complexity of producing titanium limited the Sierra program to just four submarines. The Akula, though, would be eventually be built in two separate locations: Komsomol’sk in the Pacific and Severodvinsk on the Kola Peninsula, in northwest Russia. It was, for thirty years, Russia’s best sub, before the first Yasen-class subs were commissioned in 2013, 20 years after construction of them began.


The INS Chakra seen during delivery to the Indian Navy. Indian Navy photo
Indian Navy Akula Lease

In 2004, India signed an agreement with Russia to lease one Akula submarine for 10 years. At a cost of nearly $1 billion, it was the second nuclear submarine the Indians had leased. Between 1988 and 1991 the nation rented a Charlie-class sub from the USSR, mainly for the Indian Navy to obtain experience operating a nuclear submarine.

The new sub began life as the Nerpa, an Akula II design that was laid down in 1993. Due to a lack of funds following the collapse of the USSR, Nerpa lay unfinished in a shipyard in Russia’s Pacific until the agreement with India was signed in 2001. Originally the Nerpa was to be completed and delivered by 2007 but did not undergo sea trials until October 2008.



One month later, on November 8, disaster struck, when the Nerpa was conducting sea trials in the Sea of Japan and it suffered a mechanical failure of its chemical-fire suppression system, killing 20 and injuring many others. It could’ve been worse: The boat was reportedly carrying 208 people during what was a test of the submarine’s systems. But with the ship full of workers overseeing the trials, there wasn’t enough emergency breathing options to counter the effects of Freon gas.

Still, on January 23, 2012 the Akula finally joined the Indian Navy as the INS Chakra, and has spent the first five years patrolling the Indian Ocean, providing India a modern nuclear-powered fast-attack submarine that is among the best in the world. With half the lease remaining, India is pursuing another Akula to lease from Russia beginning around 2022.

Last week, it was reported by Indian news outlets that Chakra suffered an accident, most likely in August of this year, that damaged the submarines sonar dome. The damage is expected to require substantial repair work before the submarine could return to sea duty. No definitive account of the incident has been released by the Indian Navy, however, it seems likely that the submarine was either involved in a collision at sea or was damaged returning to its homeport of Visakhapatnam through a grounding event.


Two Akulas aboard a heavy-life vessel being transported from the Pacific for repairs. The Bratsk is on the left with Samara on the right. The size of the Akula is evidenced by the man in the lower right.
In 1989, just two years before the Soviet Union would cease to exist, eight classes of submarines (Delta IV SSBN, Typhoon SSBN, Kilo SS, Victor III SSN, Sierra II SSN, Akula SSN, Oscar II SSGN, and Paltus SSAN) were under construction. The Soviet Union had invested heavily in its submarine force toward the end of the Cold War and the Akula was going to be the USSR’s rock star of its undersea fleet. However, less than five years later the USSR was gone and Russia was struggling to find itself amongst upheaval. The proud submarine fleet fell to ruin and sat tied to piers rusting away.

Of the 15 Akulas built, only 11 are considered active, but that number is inflated with boats undergoing modernization and refit. At best, it is estimated that as few as four Akulas are operational with the Russian fleet, and as many as six may be awaiting overhaul. But with the delays of the Yasen-class, the Russian Navy may be looking to invest more in the overhaul of the neglected Akulas, as the price to refurbish is significantly less than the estimated $3.5 billion for the Yasen-class.

The operational Akulas, meanwhile, have remained active, with a pair detected off the East Coast in 2009. The subs were no doubt hoping to catch an Ohio-class American sub leaving Kings Bay, Georgia, for a deterrent patrol.

In early 1995 then Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jeremy Boorda was speaking to the Senate Armed Services Committee regarding the 1996 Defense Budget and the subject of the Akula came up. Boorda said then, “At tactical speeds (less than six or seven knots) the Akula is quieter than the 688 (Los Angeles-class) and is very difficult for us to detect. Our people are better and that’s why we do adequately—and I would say adequately ... There are six Russian improved Akulas that are a match—better than a match—for our 688-I’s.”

The context of the statements has to be taken into consideration, as Boorda was looking to secure his budget, especially funding for the troubled Seawolf-class that was over budget and delayed. Yes, the Akula was the quietest submarine the Soviets built, up until the Yasen sailed, and it did change how American submarines operated, especially up north in the Russian backyards.

But experience has proven that the sub could be detected and tracked; American boats, now, just have to get a whole lot closer than ever before.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby fanne » 14 Oct 2017 17:58

when we are not getting any more Akulas, and the Akula that we have is damaged and if sent to mother Russia, it may never get returned, what is the use of this article? Abhishek B wife is very beautiful, well it does not do anything for my marriage, sorry

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 16 Oct 2017 11:02

Fear not.Unlikely that the Chakra will be sent to Russia to receive its pension. It's a relatively new boat .It shouldn't be beyond the capacity of the sub facility there to undertake any repairs reqd. since the same facility is building a series of at least 4 SSBNs for the IN.There is as yet no official info that A-2 is not coming,only the last bit of welcome info that another A-3 is being sought by us.There may be some byzantine bargaining or packaging it with other deals,whatever,but since this is the most sensitive of all def. systems,expect very,very,little off. info coming out and any that one gets to know somehow,bury it in the deepest depths of the mind,pun intended!

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 23 Oct 2017 14:17

Some good news if accurate.

http://defenceupdate.in/indias-planned- ... rate-2023/
India’s Planned Third Russian Nuclear Attack Submarine To Operate By 2023
BY DEFENCEUPDATE · OCTOBER 23, 2017


India has decided to go ahead with its plan to lease a third nuclear attack submarine from Russia. Sources said a Project 971 SSN hull classification general-purpose attack submarine has been picked out from among many options and that the boat would undergo massive repairs and modernization at a Russian shipyard before being handed over to India.

As per a TASS report, India is pushing for a plan to station a technical team at a Russian shipyard to witness the complex refitting and modernization process of nuclear attack submarines. The refit will be carried out at the Russian shipyard in Severodvinsk and the refitted boat will be named ‘INS Chakra-III.’ The entire process will be completed over an estimated six-year time frame.

Acquiring another nuclear attack submarine (SSN) from Russia in not only prudent but also exigent for India’s national security. An SSN is required to influence events in distant areas of the country’s maritime interest, where conventional surface and integral aviation cannot operate due to whatever reason.

The Indian Ocean is becoming increasingly important to China’s economic and security interests as a strategic waterway which helps keep its economy going. Therefore, China’s military presence there will keep growing. However, the struggle for the strategic maritime routes is only one of the reasons India is modernising and augmenting its attack submarine force.

Indian Navy is also awaiting the delivery of a second Project 971 (Akula-Class) SNN which it had leased from Russia a year ago. The Indian Navy (IN) currently operates two SNNs; the oldest of which is the INS Chakra, formerly the Russian Navy’s K-152 Nerpa, commissioned into the Indian Navy in April 2012. India’s second SSN, INS Arihant, is the indigenously built nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine commissioned in August 2016.

At present, negotiations are underway to accommodate India’s desire to send a delegation of shipbuilders to the Severodvinsk yard to witness and assist in the refitting and modernization of the third SSN India intends to lease. The hands on experience would be of significant help to Indian shipbuilders who are being tasked with the responsibility of constructing at least six nuclear-powered submarines, locally at an estimated cost of over $12 billion.


From the last bit,it appears to be that the 6 SSNs to be built indigenously will have significant Ru sub tech input as why else send them to Russia for studying N-sub building?

Other sub news:
http://defenceupdate.in/ins-karanj-indi ... or-launch/
INS Karanj :- India’s Third Scorpene Class Submarine ready for launch
BY DEFENCEUPDATE · SEPTEMBER 23, 2017

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 27 Oct 2017 11:32

From the report below,it appears that the damage is limited to the sonar dome only,where a piece has broken off ,most likely after colliding with something.Pieces do not fall off just like that! If the edges are jagged,sharp,etc.definitely a collision with some object,or the channel bed. If the "hole" is at the lowest part of the sonar dome then most likely it scraped the bottom of the channel while transiting it ,or hit some object lying in the channel which could've come off some merchantman,etc. If a "panel" has fallen off,it may be another matter.What must be ckd. is whether there is any damage to the sonar.Externally,it does not seem likely as it would've been visible and reported,tests should easily confirm whether it is unaffected by the incident.No reports of any hull damage either.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... 927554.ece
Russian team in Vizag to inspect damaged submarine
Dinakar Peri Josy Joseph NEW DELHI , OCTOBER 27, 2017 00:21 IST

Help soon: Russia leased INS Chakra to India for a 10-year period from 2011.
Sources say nuclear reactor on INS Chakra is intact; Russia not fully convinced of Indian findings

A Russian technical team is in Vizag for a joint investigation into the mysterious damage suffered by INS Chakra, the nuclear submarine leased to India in 2011, a diplomatic source has confirmed.

Details available from an official Indian inquiry show that the damage to the submarine is far bigger than what has been known in public. The sonar dome in the forward portion has suffered an almost five-feet by five-feet hole, according to reliable information from the Ministry of Defence sources. Two separate sources, from the Russian and Indian side, separately confirmed to The Hindu that the damage to the submarine was not very serious, and did not impact the nuclear reactor, because it was all contained to the outer hull.

The Russian team arrived in India after they refused to be satisfied with the findings of a three-member Indian team’s official inquiry. Sources said the team had placed the damage primarily on technical issues. There has been speculation that the damage was caused by a minor accident while INS Chakra was on the move.

Russia, which leased the submarine to India for a 10-year period in 2011 for over $600 million, sent a formal message a few days ago to New Delhi that it was not fully convinced with the Indian findings.

Russia then suggested that technical experts from their side be allowed access to examine the submarine which had been docked for the past several weeks in the submarine base INS Virbahu in Visakhapatnam.

Sources said the investigations by the joint team would be filed to both New Delhi and Moscow. For now, Russian sources indicate that the damage is not serious. “But we will have to wait for the final report before moving forward,” one Russian official said.

India is already engaged in negotiations for the second nuclear submarine from Russia, which could join service when INS Chakra returns after its 10-year lease.

Speculation on accident

There have been much speculation surrounding the accident suffered by the submarine, with some reports saying it may have met with an accident while negotiating the narrow channel to enter the harbour. The submarine had suffered a major accident in 2008, while undergoing sea trials.

The Akula class submarine is an SSN, and is to provide escort to INS Arihant, the indigenously constructed ballistic missile submarine that would carry nuclear missiles.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Oct 2017 13:00

Just a Hunch, any chance that the INS Chakra might have bumped into the wreakage of PNS GHAZI will entering Vizag Harbour. I think its high time we lift the PNS Ghazi. It is probable that the damage could have been to INS chakra from the Ghazi conning tower lying at 17°41'00.0"N 83°21'05.0"E.

The sea depth is about 99 foot and right at the entry to Vizag harbour.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby sum » 27 Oct 2017 16:14

Wonder if this is just a pretext for a Russian team to " repair "a SSN just when we are starting manufacturing ours?

Just like how the other kilo lay in Vizag all these years getting overhauled(with Russians coming and going to fix it) and suddenly got fixed when Arihant was launched

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 28 Oct 2017 13:00

Most unlikely.There has been an incident and the sub has to be repaired.A all. team of IN naval constructors is going to Run to study the deep upgrade of an Akula for us and build subs back home.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby arvin » 28 Oct 2017 14:30

Aditya_V wrote: ..
I think its high time we lift the PNS Ghazi.
The sea depth is about 99 foot and right at the entry to Vizag harbour.


This should be lifted and installed as war trophy on vizag beach. Its sister PNS hangor is a war meuseum in karachi. Dont thiink it would be difficult since we recently lifted a kilo out at mumbai. Will also make the harbor channel safer.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 28 Oct 2017 15:44

Usually sunken wrecks are teft where they are as war graves.Unless there is serious danger to navigation they remain where they are.The Ghazi's final resting place is well known and would be marked on charts.Perhaps something that the currents brought in or dropped off a merchantman.We have not been told where the incident took place.The sub's logs should clearly indicate where it happened.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 28 Oct 2017 15:59

Details available from an official Indian inquiry show that the damage to the submarine is far bigger than what has been known in public. The sonar dome in the forward portion has suffered an almost five-feet by five-feet hole, according to reliable information from the Ministry of Defence sources. Two separate sources, from the Russian and Indian side, separately confirmed to The Hindu that the damage to the submarine was not very serious, and did not impact the nuclear reactor, because it was all contained to the outer hull.


The Sonar Dome is a certain Frequency Transparent composite material structure , They are not made of metals for obvious reason hence any structure hitting it would cause it to rupture.

If the Submarine was not fully submerged and the hit it limited to dome with a 5x5 feet hole with no water seepages inside the sonar then they can replace it quicker compared to a a submerged submarine where the sea water would go seep inside and Sonar area flooded and other electronics protected by sonar dome then it would take a longer time to clean that up and replace the damaged dome structure.

Such accidents have happened in past too with many countries with captain loosing the command and its not unusual or first of its kind either but then submarine will have to be towed back and go for repairs probably at the same place where Arhiant class it getting built.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 01 Dec 2017 12:12

Navy chief Adm Sunil Lanba on damage to INS Chakra, rumors of US personnel

https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan/sta ... 7114042368

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2017 16:55

This photo is of 1998, in Murmansk (Russia) with then CNS Adm V Bhagwat & I (then a 2 star ACNS Submarines &'FOSM) being received on a RuN Akula SSN. I am stepping on board from the gangway. Photo from Dec 2017 issue of Force magazine.

Image

https://twitter.com/subnut

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 31 Dec 2017 08:32

Great pic! Didn't know that some Ak-1s had the sensors seen mostly on later A-2s seen on the sail .

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Thakur_B » 31 Dec 2017 10:34

Aditya_V wrote:Just a Hunch, any chance that the INS Chakra might have bumped into the wreakage of PNS GHAZI will entering Vizag Harbour. I think its high time we lift the PNS Ghazi. It is probable that the damage could have been to INS chakra from the Ghazi conning tower lying at 17°41'00.0"N 83°21'05.0"E.

The sea depth is about 99 foot and right at the entry to Vizag harbour.


Pakis will claim their sailors are hunting the yindoos even in their afterlife :rotfl:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 02 Jan 2018 11:31

Unlikely as she will be well marked on charts.More likely that the C scraped her bow while in the channel.Inner channel is fine supposedly for a draught of 8/9m,depth 18m. Or perhaps she suffered damage while coming alongside,may have hit the side of the dock while entering her berth.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 25 Mar 2018 19:07

Part 1 of 2 Part Series on Sevmash: Inside the Akula [ use English Subtitles ]


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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 25 Mar 2018 19:10

some loose translation of the above video

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content ... 9-4ye9.htm

Perfection: how the submarines of the 971 project became a nightmare for NATO


Submarines of project 971 "Pike-B" (according to the NATO classification - Akula) in our fleet are named personal. "Panther", "Tiger", "Cheetah", "Vepr" - a division of the Northern Fleet, where these ships are in service, even jokingly nicknamed "bestial."

Boats of this class became the main type of multipurpose atomic submarines in the Russian Navy: they possess a set of advantages - primarily low noise level and the possibility of using a whole range of weapons - they successfully perform a wide range of tasks in different regions of the World Ocean.

In the next issue of the program "Military Acceptance" , published on the "Zvezda" TV channel, journalist Aleksey Egorov will continue the story about these unique ships. The audience will learn about some of their daring campaigns, when our sailors deprived NATO of the invulnerability, see how the submariners live and serve, how their life is arranged and what it takes to become a true conqueror of the depths.

On a visit "in a quiet"


This operation was carried out in 1987. Then a whole group of submarines from the junction of the underwater forces of our navy suddenly appeared on the shores of one of the foreign states. Photographs taken through a periscope are preserved, where the coastline of the country on the opposite side of the planet is visible as in the palm of your hand. Our boats managed not only to get unnoticed to the North Atlantic, but also to go directly to one of NATO's naval bases. And this despite the fact that on the way of the submarines an anti-submarine line was displayed in the form of ships and aircraft flying around the areas patrolling, using hydroacoustic retrieval equipment. However, NATO embarrassed: Soviet submarines slipped through their "sieve", as if invisible.

And after all, that campaign was conducted on boats not yet the most perfect project. The submarines of the next, 971 series were much quieter, more powerful, more armed. The general designer of the project laureate of the State Prize of Russia Yuri Farafontov recalls how during the tests of the first ship of this project the boats of foreign countries tried to approach ours in order to determine its characteristics. However, the search tools immediately detected uninvited guests, without betraying themselves.

Another horse of the ships of the project "Pike-B" - their impressive arsenal. For example, only torpedoes here can load four dozen pieces, including a caliber of 650 millimeters, and these are the most powerful torpedoes in the world. One shot can sink an aircraft carrier. It is no accident, when in the West we learned about the existence of such weapons, we instantly changed the logic of building a marching warrant, placing destroyers on the wake. Their functions are prosaic: these ships will simply have to take a hit on themselves, because there is simply no defense against such torpedoes.

In addition to torpedo weapons, in the arsenal of our submarines there is also missile armament. In fact, as the commander of the submarine division of the Northern Fleet, Captain 1st Rank Sergei Starshinov, admits, this task will also be solved if the enemy is tasked with destroying the enemy located in the given area on the shore.

Perfection algorithms

The Russian design bureau "Malakhit" is one of the main centers engaged in the design of ships for the domestic submarine fleet. It was here that the first nuclear submarine was developed here. As the director general of Malakhita, Vladimir Dorofeyev, recalls, the boat was equipped with one torpedo tube and was designed to destroy coastal infrastructure facilities. Then came the ships of the second generation, the third, the fourth. Boats 885-th series (the project "Ash-M", the fourth generation) serve as a strategic deterrent, they have the opportunity to use cruise missiles from vertical launchers.

With the latest technology, even the process of designing such ships is organized: in it, for example, 3D technologies are actively used, when it is possible to more fully evaluate the parameters of the product. By the way, thanks to this technology, the crew members can make a virtual tour of their future ship along with the designers.

It should be taken into account that the third-generation boats (and this is just "Pike-B") is not yet supposed to be sent to the reserve. Experts say that the possibilities for upgrading these ships are unlimited. Such procedures are carried out regularly - with the replacement of acoustics systems, communication, the renovation of other elements. At the shipyard "Nerpa", where the boats undergo scheduled maintenance, many mechanisms are tested at much higher loads than they are in fact. Specialists use original technologies, machines, tools, including non-standard ones. All this is needed to ensure that the boat does not fail at a depth.

With the nature of the winners

The commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Korolev, is a professional submariner. He calls his craft a real man's work. "It's been more than a hundred years since it appeared, but nothing has changed in it," Admiral admits. "There are elements of romance, and elements of surprise." Admiral Korolyov considers the character of seamen who serve in the submarine fleet as "the character of the winners". "This is very important for a submariner," the commander-in-chief emphasizes.

In a special situation, which can happen at depth, special algorithms are involved. The commander of the Guards nuclear submarine "Gepard" Guard Captain 1st rank Dmitry Maslov as no one understands their responsibility - both for the life of the crew and for the performance of the task. To find a target, to use weapons on it is one algorithm. Exit from the retaliatory strike is another.

In the underwater duel it is extremely important to detect in time the launch of the enemy's torpedo. The hydroacoustic complex is responsible for this. And if the blow is fixed, then the means of hydro-resistance are involved - something like the heat traps that are used in aviation against MANPADS. "If you hear the sound of a noisy torpedo, you must apply skill and evade, but at the same time hit the enemy's submarine," says the officer. "The sound of the torpedo can not be confused with anything - it screams like a pig: the screws of torpedoes spin very quickly."

A submariner must have a lightning-fast reaction to other sudden circumstances. For example, getting seawater in case of a hole or a sudden fire. To counteract these misfortunes, seamen learn in the struggle for vitality, which are held at intervals of up to two times a week. Equipped training points allow you to recreate the situation of real danger, while the work is carried out in special suits, in sealed masks.

Conquerors of the Depths


A submarine is a device more complex than a spaceship. And this is not a sonorous metaphor: this is how the first cosmonaut of the planet Yuri Gagarin responded to one of our submarines after an excursion for him. Even a set of seamen's outfits here is such that all its elements can not be listed on the sly. The submariner's outfit includes a uniform jacket, a working suit, warm woolen underwear, a warm pea coat (in case of ascent in ice). And a rescue hydroturbine (for passage through the torpedo tube), hydrothermal suits - it is needed to stay on the raft during emergency ascent. We add here a life jacket, an insulating gas mask, a portable breathing apparatus. The set of property and equipment is decent.

In this case, life on the boat is not the most demanding. Although all the essentials are here. There is even a doctor's office, capable of becoming an operating room if necessary. In autonomous navigation, a ship doctor performs the functions of a therapist, infectiologist, surgeon. Can also heal the teeth if someone suddenly grabs. By the way, doctors recognize the benefits of wine, which are given out to the crew on an atomic submarine. In the diet of sailors included also granular caviar, chocolate, prunes, honey. In special conditions and rations should be special.

... The conquerors of the depths do not know the excessive sentiments. With the exception, perhaps, of one thing - thoughts about relatives, about relatives, about the house. In the wardroom of one of the boats posted drawings made by the children of the crew. These touching moments, like pastoral landscapes, which are also decorated with cabins, are perceived here quite differently than on the shore. ■

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 05 Apr 2018 17:14

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... U9CcK.html

A senior GSL official said Russian delegations have been visiting the shipyard and are satisfied with the production facilities. India inked an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) with Russia for the four frigates in 2016.

HT learns that price negotiations are at an advanced stage for leasing out a second Akula-II nuclear-powered attack submarine from Russia. The IGA for the $2-billion deal was inked at a summit-level meeting between Modi and Putin in Goa two years ago.

The Indian Navy is likely to induct the new submarine in 2021 when INS Chakra, also a leased Akula-II submarine, is returned to Russia. INS Chakra was commissioned into the navy in April 2012.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 07 Apr 2018 11:28

Government refuses to divulge info on damage to nuclear submarine INS Arihant

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 93783.html

NEW DELHI: The government today declined to give information on the extent of damage and cost of repairs of the indigenously-built nuclear submarine INS Arihant, stating it cannot be done "in the interest of national security".

There were reports that INS Arihant had suffered major damage due to human error last year.

In a written response to a question in Lok Sabha on the extent of damage INS Arihant has suffered and the estimated cost of its repair, Subhash Bhamre, minister of state in the defence ministry, said: "The information cannot be divulged in the interest of national security".


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