INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2012 07:10

>> I just wonder if its big to carry all 85 crew and just break out and surface.

it has anyways been confirmed in article above. dont think of it as a "room" in which people can move around. think of it as we do a lift - 13 people can fit into a smallish lift and 20 inside a typical office lift. it will be tightly packed but nobody expects to be in there for hours. there are 3 "storeys" of seats/standing spots there arranged around a central atrium probably.
there's probably some depth limit beyond which such devices cannot be deployed.

khan subs dont have it probably because they didnt operate in shallow littoral waters earlier. neither did they practice the escape suit drills while the british and we did. now having to move into the seas near china they are doing the drills though nothing can be done about the virginia design at this stage.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Apr 2012 08:24

Navy to operate five nuclear submarines by end of decade

Indian Navy is all set to operate five nuclear submarines by the end of this decade, including two leased from Russia and three built indigenously.

India is considering a proposal to induct another nuclear submarine built in Russia and has plans of indigenously building two more Arihant Class underwater vessels to guard its maritime boundaries, Defence Minister A K Antony said.

The Navy yesterday formally commissioned the Akula-II Class INS Chakra in Vishakhapatnam and is set to launch the INS Arihant for sea trials soon.

On India's plans to expand its nuclear submarine fleet, Antony said the government was considering a proposal in this regard and the country can afford to buy another such vessel.

"There is a proposal...Cost is not necessary. India can afford it... In the next few years, the Navy will get more submarines," the Defence Minister said at the commissioning of INS Chakra.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2012 10:53

prolly second akuka will be a refurbished akula1 from rus active service then

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Apr 2012 11:17

Any new Akula-2 purchase will be new built ones , the Russian operate older Akula which is not worth buying as they have very less hull life left and needs extensive upgrades.

New Akula-2 will be faster to build as what ever IN wanted in Chakra class was tested via Nerpa standard and its easy to mass produce a subs as they dont need to go through extensive testing and validate stuff again as the first of class has to.

Singha fine with Rescue capsule , they are just suppose to gather in that capsule when the subs gets stranded deep in sea and cannot surface , the rescue capsule will just leave the sub with all crew and surface up , to be then rescued by surface ship. Khan uses DSRV for such purpose.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2012 11:55

new build akula2 means 6 yrs to delivery if they start today.
refurb would cost less nd last 15 yrs...giving us time to get local ssn line up

Will · Post by **Will** » 06 Apr 2012 12:10

A nice spanking new Yasen class boat would be like the cats whiskers

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2012 12:22

i dont think rus will have space nd people to build a one off new akula. they r busy with yasen and borei lines. they need boreis badly to retire deltas.
nd yasen to supplement the akulas. force disparity with khan is huge.

so refurb Akula is prolly only biskoot on the table...

member_23061 · Post by **member_23061** » 06 Apr 2012 13:09

nachiket wrote:
SagarAg wrote:^At the Commissioning ceremony.
LOL. I think you confused BRF's Dr. Shiv with Shiv Aroor.

ROFL

Boudhayan · Post by **Boudhayan** » 06 Apr 2012 13:51

LOL. I think you confused BRF's Dr. Shiv with Shiv Aroor

OMG !!! and all these years I thought they both are the same person ... realized my mistake today

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 06 Apr 2012 17:03

Prasobh wrote:
nachiket wrote: LOL. I think you confused BRF's Dr. Shiv with Shiv Aroor.
ROFL

Tell me a good hiding place for some time. Totally

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 06 Apr 2012 20:07

SagarAg wrote:
nachiket wrote: LOL. I think you confused BRF's Dr. Shiv with Shiv Aroor.
ROFL

Tell me a good hiding place for some time. Totally

Chinese sub pens on Hainan island

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Apr 2012 20:34

SagarAg wrote:
Tell me a good hiding place for some time. Totally

No need. Till yesterday even I thought I must be shiv aroor until someone came and spoiled it all by telling me the reality. Maybe I should report that guy to the CIAdmins.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 06 Apr 2012 20:49

Singha wrote:i dont think rus will have space nd people to build a one off new akula. they r busy with yasen and borei lines. they need boreis badly to retire deltas.
nd yasen to supplement the akulas. force disparity with khan is huge.

so refurb Akula is prolly only biskoot on the table...

Tigr has been offered.

And this is the escape pod.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Apr 2012 21:02

a noble beast indeed. 4th of the 5 Akula1-I series: there are only 3 newer boats, samara of same class and vepr and gepard akula2.

K-154 971 Tigr Akula I Improved Sevmash 10 September 1989 26 June 1993 29 December 1993

obviously we should take up the offer. with a good 2 yr refurb and reactor refueling, it will last us 15 more years for sure.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 06 Apr 2012 21:11

Are the Akula 1 and II's very different ?

Perhaps even an outright purchase of three yasen class boats would be awesome. One joining IN every 2-3 years.

srai · Post by **srai** » 06 Apr 2012 21:46

Dharma R wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
Well Two Akulas ( another being negotiated) and Five more Arihant Class ( excluding One already undergoing trial). Two in construction stages and three in various drawing stages. Thats a total of eight.
And dont forget adding the SSN group. IN is contemplating for a 6 to 9 SSN in its armada.

Here's my calculations on how many SSN the IN will need in the next 10-15 years:

2 x SSNs for protecting IN's 2 aircraft carrier battle groups
3 x SSNs for protecting IN's 3 ATV SSBNs
6 x SSNs for shadowing enemy's carrier battle groups and SSBNs
1 x SSNs for reserve

Total: ideal -> 12 SSNs required;
at the minimum -> 5 SSNs (for protection duties of carriers and SSBNs).

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Apr 2012 21:52

According to wiki, Kuguar, Rys and a third hull were reused to construct the three Borei SSBNs. However there's a fourth hull Irbis lying 80% complete. It appears to be an Akula 1 Improved standard as opposed to Akula II.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 06 Apr 2012 22:37

shiv wrote:
SagarAg wrote:
Tell me a good hiding place for some time. Totally
No need. Till yesterday even I thought I must be shiv aroor until someone came and spoiled it all by telling me the reality. Maybe I should report that guy to the CIAdmins.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Apr 2012 23:06

Russia Delivers Nerpa Submarine to India, Plans More Deliveries for 2012

The Project 971 nuclear-powered attack submarine K-152 Nerpa was delivered to the Indian Navy on Wednesday. But it is not the only Russian naval system to be exported to India this year. Russia and India plan to complete several other naval contracts, which could make 2012 “the year of the navy” in bilateral military technical cooperation.

Nerpa aka Chakra

Construction of the Nerpa, re-commissioned as the INS Chakra II, was launched in 1991 and completed in the 2000s for lease to India.

Initially, it was to be delivered in 2007, but the adjustment of its equipment took longer than expected. In 2008, the submarine’s fire safety system accidentally activated during trials in the Sea of Japan, killing 20 people. Among the dead, 17 were civilian technical specialists.

Some blame the accident on the modifications made to the Molibden-I central command console at India’s request.

There were other accidents on the Nerpa though none of them as serious the one in 2008. For example, the system started to fill and empty ballast tanks without operator's input and had to be switched off. Many of them were connected with the Molibden system, which is alarming because it is supplied to the Project 955 Borei class missile submarines.

At any rate, the Nerpa has been commissioned and leased to India for 10 years for nearly $1 billion. But this is only the first naval delivery this year.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 07 Apr 2012 00:17

ome blame the accident on the modifications made to the Molibden-I central command console at India’s request.

Nicely done!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Apr 2012 00:40

BTW there is a distict possibility that Nerpa like Gepard has all 8 x 533 mm TT , some of the TT cover/opening on Nerpa appear slightly larger because they are on the side.

Here is a picture of Gepard with 8 x 533 mm TT , the TT on side has larger covering compared to that on center.

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9383 ... f2f565.jpg

Another picture of Nerpa taken in Russia

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9789/971akula01.jpg

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 07 Apr 2012 00:50

srai wrote:Here's my calculations on how many SSN the IN will need in the next 10-15 years:

2 x SSNs for protecting IN's 2 aircraft carrier battle groups

3 x SSNs for protecting IN's 3 ATV SSBNs

6 x SSNs for shadowing enemy's carrier battle groups and SSBNs

1 x SSNs for reserve
Total: ideal -> 12 SSNs required;
at the minimum -> 5 SSNs (for protection duties of carriers and SSBNs).

Could someone please correct me. I always understood SSBN's never has escorts. Am i misinformed?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Apr 2012 01:09

It would be worth picking up the improved Ak-1 sub supposedly "80%" complete,if the sub can be built to Chakra std.I wonder whether it really is that advanced in construction as the RN would've seen to its fast completion/induction given its need for new subs.The internal eqpt.,reactor,weapons,sensors and C&C package is the key,as hull wise ,apart from the Gepard's subtle differences and the smaller TAS pod,they all Ak-2/3 look similar.

Russia now builds N-subs within 4 years! So it shouldn't be too difficult to finish an incomplete Ak-1/2 before 2015 if the decision to acquire a second sub is taken now.Perhaps it already has in principle,and we are being mentally prepared for the second.Until at leats 3 ATV/SSBNs are commissioned into the IN,we cannot build our own smaller sized SSGNs.In fact the full number of SSBNs sshlould be first built at home before we add indigenous SSGNs.Acquiring 2-3 Akulas would be the most cost-effective option .One reason for the "lease" and not outright purchase is that the lease probably a "dry lease",without a crew,comes with a full warranty on maintenance,etc.,where any technical malfunction,spares required,etc., would be looked after by the supplier.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 07 Apr 2012 01:13

More Chakra videos via Aroor.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 07 Apr 2012 01:19

Lisa wrote:
Could someone please correct me. I always understood SSBN's never has escorts. Am i misinformed?

Lisa, I am afraid that you are wrong. SSBNs are escorted by more than one SSN. To remain undetectable the SSBN need restrict its speed around 4-8 knots and also it has limited capabilities to defend itself after BM launch(es).

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 07 Apr 2012 02:23

Rakesh wrote:By the way, Captain Asokan is actually Commodore Asokan...

Traditionally, Commodores never held sea command. If a Commodore held a sea command, he reverted back to a Captain's rank.

Convoy Commodore is a military officer commanding all civilian ships in a convoy, but Convoy Commodore is a role agnostic to the rank of the person holding the role.

Snehashis wrote:
Lisa wrote:Could someone please correct me. I always understood SSBN's never has escorts. Am i misinformed?
Lisa, I am afraid that you are wrong. SSBNs are escorted by more than one SSN. To remain undetectable the SSBN need restrict its speed around 4-8 knots and also it has limited capabilities to defend itself after BM launch(es).

This is not correct.

A submarines greatest asset is freedom of movement in three dimensions. Operating in packs restricts flexibility.

(Only exception is a pack with a single mission responsibility - team up against a surface convoy where the number of targets and threats is too high for a single submarine. But this mission doesnt require any flexibility.)

All US, UK, French and Soviet SSBNs operate(d) solo.

Only exception were USSR Delta class, with boxy missile launchers to accomodate larger missiles that could reach continental US. The Delta class missile hump was grossly hydrodynamically inefficient, and hence they operated at slow speed. The operated in Soviet territorial waters. And their escorts patrolled those territorial waters. The Delta class were more like self-propelled-missile-pontoons rather than submarines.

The concept of SSBN escorted by SSN is BS. Two submarines operating in tandem at close range will need to communicate, for navigation and safety purposes, and this communication can be easily picked up by the enemy.

Submarines, missile carrying or attack, have well defined operating sectors, and other submarines stay away. Identification-of-Friend-or-Foe amd short range traffic awareness is still a major headache for all submarines.

US Navy Carrier groups include an attack submarine, but that submarine does not "escort" the carrier like a SPG around Mayawati. It is usually many miles away patroling a particular sector, like a sniper on a roof, or a scout deployed ahead. A submarine's silence makes it an ideal scout/sniper.

Most submariners find Tom Clancy's stories akin to those from our very own Chorgupta.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 07 Apr 2012 02:55

tsarkar wrote:All US, UK, French and Soviet SSBNs operate(d) solo.

Only exception were USSR Delta class, with boxy missile launchers to accomodate larger missiles that could reach continental US. The Delta class missile hump was grossly hydrodynamically inefficient, and hence they operated at slow speed. The operated in Soviet territorial waters. And their escorts patrolled those territorial waters. The Delta class were more like self-propelled-missile-pontoons rather than submarines.

Doesn't that also apply to the Xia (Type 092) and Jin (Type 094) classes in PLAN ? They both look hunchbacked. Granted, they've probably never done a true deterrence patrol either, with the sole Xia essentially being a drydock queen and its sister ship at the bottom of the Yellow Sea.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Apr 2012 03:04

simply put, navies that employ the bastion doctrine have need of sanitizing waters, whether with SSNs, warships or MPA's. soviets used a combo of bastion and deterrence patrols. US solely deterrence patrols. china, till date a limited version of bastion doctrine.

partha · Post by **partha** » 07 Apr 2012 03:45

He is handsome. A pic of Chakra on its way to Vishakapatnam, painted golden by the sun rays is my wallpaper now

Kanchana-Chakra.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 07 Apr 2012 03:57

INS Chakra 10 facts

Unlike conventional submarines that India operates which need to surface to charge their batteries often - sometimes as frequently as 24 hours - INS Chakra can stay under as long as it wants. Its ability to stay underwater is restrained only by human endurance to stay underwater. Also, another problem that the submarine could face is acidity. This is because of a lack of exercise inside due to prolonged deployments.

can anyone please explain
acidity problem and human endurance staying in a sub.

TIA.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 07 Apr 2012 04:16

http://indrus.in/assets/images/2012-02/ ... nf_720.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDYrV8H8 ... r_embedded

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 07 Apr 2012 05:36

^Was that submarine shown at the dock in the video really the Chakra?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Apr 2012 05:45

krisna wrote: can anyone please explain
acidity problem and human endurance staying in a sub.

TIA.

Sounds like DDM.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 07 Apr 2012 08:10

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 07 Apr 2012 09:52

Looking at the stats above Reactor OP 190 mw, turbine power 43k hp, efficiency (of this part of cycle) 31%
a propulsive steam plant is very efficient if it is 30%.+

Say (Vessel) at 10 kts 24x7 she has a range of 100days = 24x7x100=16,800 nmiles
It is less than 8000nm fm vizag to shangai , you could go to the northern russia on this range, So maybe we start playing cat and mouse in the yellow sea??

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Apr 2012 10:24

There is another incomplete Hull Irbis that 60 % complete , this would be the second Akula that can be leased.
source

2008-2009, - In the Russian Navy submarine pr.971 12, 6 pc on the SF and PF. - 2009 May 11 - during the visit of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at the Amur CVD was examined by an unfinished chassis serial number 519 ("Irbis ").

Housing and screw submarine pr.971I factory № 519 in the shop number 19 in the North Amur Komsomolsk-na-Amur, May 11, 2009

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Apr 2012 10:42

Dragon Slayer - India's first nuclear-powered submarine INS Chakra all set to hit seas

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Apr 2012 11:08

How much is the imbalance

IS the Chinese NAVY capable to defend far away from the shores. Can it project power beyond few thousand miles from its shores

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Apr 2012 13:01

khan ssbn have treadmills in gym room with hydraulic isolated supports to control motor noise. i think all nuke subs would have a gym given their three month patrols.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 07 Apr 2012 13:08

Austin wrote:There is another incomplete Hull Irbis that 60 % complete , this would be the second Akula that can be leased.
source

Housing and screw submarine pr.971I factory № 519 in the shop number 19 in the North Amur Komsomolsk-na-Amur, May 11, 2009
[delinked-img]http://militaryrussia.ru/i/284/273/1jaaw.jpg[/delinked-img]

Funny that no one bothered to hide the propeller in the above picture.