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INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Ajit.C » 12 Apr 2012 08:13

New article in today's Times of India
Man attempts to steal INS Chakra documents
VISAKHAPATNAM: Exactly a week after the 8,140-tonne nuclear-powered attack submarine INS Chakra was inducted into the Indian Navy on a 10-year lease from Russia, a brazen attempt was made to steal key documents pertaining to the submarine from a star hotel here on Wednesday.

Police are trying to trace the unidentified assailant with the help of the video footage. Speculation is rife that the accused fled The spot by taking away some important documents on security matters. The attempt to steal the secret documents was made in Novotel Hotel room (No. 534) of a high- ranked Russian officer T Alexander when he was away. Alexander, who is a vice admiral rank officer, was shocked to see his room lock broken when he returned around 2.30 pm. He immediately called the police.

He had kept 80,000 worth Russian currency, a laptop, some electronic gadgets and Rs 2,000 Indian currency in the room which were intact.

A senior police official said the accused had tried in vain to break open the secret locker in the room. But unconfirmed reports said he walked away with some documents from the locker. It remains a mystery as to how the accused could easily make his way to the top ranking official's room in a high-profile star hotel where security is fool-proof. A Clues team and fingerprint experts were rushed to the hotel soon after the Russian's complaint.

Sources said Alexander had come to Vizag on March 30 to train the sailors of INS Chakra. "He would be camping here for nearly a month. Several Russian officers are also staying in star hotels like Park, Taj Gateway and Novotel," sources said.

When contacted, city police commissioner Purnachandra Rao said that an attempt was made to burgle the room. "We would track the accused with the help of the video footage and arrest him. No document has been stolen," he said. He refused to divulge any further details. Naval authorities refused to comment on the matter.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SagarAg » 12 Apr 2012 08:46

A senior police official said the accused had tried in vain to break open the secret locker in the room. But unconfirmed reports said he walked away with some documents from the locker.

Why this ToI trying to add spice to the failed attempt. :evil:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 12 Apr 2012 09:21

Very interesting that some one would just know where the admiral is and would try to steal information pertaining to Chakra , hopefully nothing was stolen , next time they need to be more alert on possible espionage activity may increase.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SagarAg » 12 Apr 2012 09:36

At first I thought I was reading a script of some spy movie. The spy knew the hotel, room, even the time Admiral was not there, even door key(or he broke). His luck ran out at the locker.
Still the whole incident was very dramatic and :shock:ing

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Singha » 12 Apr 2012 09:41

probably a sino-pak effort. no money was taken which is a sure sign.

visiting personnel on such missions must take care to deposit their valuables inside the high security military bases right after they land up and not keep in hotels.

hopefully all they got was a menu card for the chakra kitchen for the russian thecrew helping the chakra crew on the initial ramp up.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby member_23061 » 12 Apr 2012 10:42

Maybe its a reverse psy ops by RAA!

Tantalizing the Chipakis with all the info to get to the cheese, then stumping them with the locker :D

D'OH!

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby adityadange » 12 Apr 2012 10:58

is there practice to place spies and/or guards near rooms of such high profile persons during their absence by either host or guest country?

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Singha » 12 Apr 2012 11:00

they should be housed imo inside the base in visitors hostel. if someone can get in & out of their room, a targeted assassination is possible right?

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 12 Apr 2012 11:24

The primarily responsibility of protecting/physical security of these Russian Admirals and other staff in the hotel rest with the IB in co-ordination local police. It would reflect very poorly on these security staff if some one could just break-in a marked target room who is of the rank of Vice Admiral and just search of exactly what they want.

The responsibility of protecting vital document rest with the individual , it might just be his own confidential document that he would wish to keep it with himself , so he must have kept it in secure safe which we are told could not be broken into hope thats true.

Lets hope they catch hold of this guy and he simply does not vanish away and the hotel in which they are staying is provided with better perimeter security and high ranking visitiors with better physical security.

Remember the Agosta incident where terrorist killed French men in bus they travelled hope some thing like that does not happen.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 12 Apr 2012 11:28

Singha wrote:they should be housed imo inside the base in visitors hostel. if someone can get in & out of their room, a targeted assassination is possible right?


Generally high ranking office like Vice Admirals wont stay in hostel , that is fine for sailors and other NCO staff ...they would either stay in hotel appropriate for their rank or local embassy/consulate if that were available ...... hopefully IN has some staff quarters available for high ranking staff and they could be shifted out there.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby tsarkar » 12 Apr 2012 14:40

There is ample accomodation for visiting Executive National Leadership / Visiting State Dignitaries at major bases. The hotel must have been booked by the Russian Embassy. Any arrangement made by IN would have had the relevant security measures in place.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby shiv » 12 Apr 2012 14:49

Ajit.C wrote:New article in today's Times of India
Man attempts to steal INS Chakra documents
Speculation is rife that the accused fled The spot by taking away some important documents on security matters. The attempt to steal the secret documents was made in Novotel Hotel room (No. 534) of a high- ranked Russian officer T Alexander when he was away. Alexander, who is a vice admiral rank officer, was shocked to see his room lock broken when he returned around 2.30 pm. He immediately called the police.

He had kept 80,000 worth Russian currency, a laptop, some electronic gadgets and Rs 2,000 Indian currency in the room which were intact.


So this Russian told the police that the locker has important documents relating to the Chakra?

"Ahem. There's been a burglary in my room . Some important top secret papers relating to the INS Chakra have been stolen? " And police told the reporter this?

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Altair » 12 Apr 2012 16:12

shiv wrote:So this Russian told the police that the locker has important documents relating to the Chakra?

"Ahem. There's been a burglary in my room . Some important top secret papers relating to the INS Chakra have been stolen? " And police told the reporter this?

Good catch! A Russian would never divulge it to press. It was probably a made up story of the Hotel staff or some dumbass reporter of a local daily.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SagarAg » 12 Apr 2012 16:20

^The news is covered by only ToI. There goes the local daily. :lol:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Singha » 12 Apr 2012 16:56

thinking about it, we cannot take it lightly.

1. the chakra was arriving, but nobody had made it known that a bunch of russian higher ups would fly in landside - how did they come to know?
2. among the many hotels in vizag, how did they home in on this hotel ?
3. in the hotel how did they know this persons name to figure out his room number , how did they know his room number?
4. does the russian embassy use a commerical travel agent to make its bookings india-wide and this agent has a mole? ..after all nothing better to track the comings and goings of top russians into the country sometimes on secretive inter-govt missions.
5. were computers in russian embassy hacked or have rootkits to periodically leak the info?

the stealing was the easy part, being in right place at right time was harder. points a "cell" and a good humint network around this major base built by the sino-pak duo.
Mil int and RAW should look to roll up and take this cell out before further damage is done.

the way things were they could easily have killed this guy and nobody would have prevented it.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SagarAg » 12 Apr 2012 17:19

the way things were they could easily have killed this guy and nobody would have prevented it.

That would have made it a international news of prime importance and would have demanded a stricter and a quick reaction by the GoI or the concerned authorities than what it has been now.(with CCTV footage and finger prints I don't think its difficult to catch anyone or at least identify anyone by now).

(P.S. what i have learnt from spy movies as such is that spy's work is swift without giving the task much limelight amongst a larger audience. Like in this case nothing was stolen according to the report. Maybe his task was something else. Maybe he bugged the Russian Admiral's belongings. As we know now he is on a mission for a month to train IN men to operate INS Chakra. Maybe be he has placed some kind of a satellite based transmitter on Admiral's belongings to check his movements (on a larger scale INS Chakra's movements). Or may be some documents were stolen which cannot be revealed in media or to a larger public(I hope not, whatever he got I hope it might be the mileage documents of Chakra). )
I think I should apply for RAW after this thought. :rotfl:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SaiK » 12 Apr 2012 20:54

Had fun reading the ToI comments on the stealing episode.

so we have:
1. petty criminal
2. paki spy
3. mptp spy
4. russian conspiracy
5. baboodom show on how to make or avoid certain things to be public
6. IN show
7. raw show
8. security is bad
9. unkill spy
10 mutu spy

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Prem Kumar » 12 Apr 2012 21:22

Ajit.C wrote:New article in today's Times of India
Man attempts to steal INS Chakra documents

It remains a mystery as to how the accused could easily make his way to the top ranking official's room in a high-profile star hotel where security is fool-proof.



Man - those Hotels, I tell you. Nothing comes close with regards to security. Those warnings you see in rooms: "Dont leave valuable items in your room. Hotel Management is not responsible" are all Chanakian techniques to fool thieves into thinking that the security is weak - so that they can be caught in the act!!

Going forward, I am going to ask the ladies in my family to store their jewellery in hotel rooms onlee

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 12 Apr 2012 22:58

It is child's play to find out where a foreign delegate is staying for a professional intel agency,as well as opening a hotel room.Years ago we had a Paki naval officer saying at the Taj in a room with a grandstand view of the naval base when the Rajput was inducted.The CNS of the day was not amused!

If the above incident took place,and there would be little use in inventing the story,it would have been only one of two agencies.The ISI or the CIA.The Chinese specialise in other methods by outsourcing intel gathering to every Chinese citizen who goes abroad,who bring in every scrap of info that they can steal,military,economic,industrial,etc.,hacking into websites,etc.Today,there is nothing to match the PRC's espionage ,the very scale of it is simply staggering.A couple of years ago,A German co. reported that a Chinese on a two week visit to the co. stole all its technical secrets it had during his short stay! This is how the PRC has managed in such a short time to bridge the huge technological gap with the west esp. in military weapon systems.

There is little doubt that Vizag has agents from these two entities active,as the ATV is also being built there.The sooner the N-base is shifted to its planned,destined location the better.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SaiK » 12 Apr 2012 23:05

may be it could be a story implanted to chase on a lead. ;)

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby negi » 13 Apr 2012 08:25

Well in all probability the thief might be cursing his luck for only having managed to steal cyclostyled copies of ToT agreement for nuts and bolts signed in triplicate with a big blob of ink from the gobermund rubber stamp, and yeah some rust on the corner from the paper clip which might give away anytime. :rotfl:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby g.sarkar » 13 Apr 2012 09:38

SaiK wrote:Had fun reading the ToI comments on the stealing episode.
so we have:
1. petty criminal
2. paki spy
3. mptp spy
4. russian conspiracy
5. baboodom show on how to make or avoid certain things to be public
6. IN show
7. raw show
8. security is bad
9. unkill spy
10 mutu spy

Missing in action is the Chinese Spy and the blond Olga. There is always Olga in Spy vs Spy stories. Goes to show TOI did not get the whole picture as usual.
Gautam

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Singha » 13 Apr 2012 09:50

the electronic hotel room safes can likely be taken apart by a trained burglar in under a minute.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby tsarkar » 13 Apr 2012 13:17

Maybe it was an exasperated Indian who wanted the maintenance procedures or something similar, that the Ruskies promised to transfer but didn't and were charging hefty consulting fees for their chap to come down and do the work :wink:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Singha » 13 Apr 2012 14:00

nice theory.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 13 Apr 2012 16:12


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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SNaik » 13 Apr 2012 17:12

Russian Pacific Fleet HQ have released information that the person mentioned in the TOI news has no relation to the RuNavy and is a civilian employee of the Amur Shipyard (builder of Chakra). There were no documents of RuNavy matters in his posession.

Which doesn't necessarily mean that he was not in posession of certain documents regarding Chakra. :) The message is just "Hey, he is not one of ours!" :)

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SaiK » 14 Apr 2012 01:29

I am willing to work with tsarkar's theory. Perhaps a valid theory in the sense many agreements have been faultered by the russkies - from MKI docs to brahmos.

But, after confirming from russkies that those are not important, now we have to look for the stolen docs, what it really contained.

Since the fear is not on the figures.. and could show a large % gone into baboo pockets, so everything seems dying out on the calm sea.

Had it been containing some money facts, I am sure mod babooze will create a tsunami.

All big tickets are having documents either stolen or lost! mrca did lose important documents on the streets of delhi.

so, we have some doc dakkus!-- looking out for trade imbalances, and validating gains by actually stealing and verifying correctness of % cut.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby member_20067 » 14 Apr 2012 08:41

interesting video on scrapping of two Akulas

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Austin » 15 Apr 2012 11:34

STRATFOR Dispatch : India Launches Nuclear Submarine


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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SNaik » 15 Apr 2012 15:24

BTW, there is a person who matches very well the Aleksander T. from TOI story. Aleksander Ivanovich Terenov, Russian commander of the first Chakra.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby D Roy » 18 Apr 2012 14:26

When I first read this article, I was a little surprised. It seemed rather accurate for something released on India by an American publication.

But then I checked the name of the author ...

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stor ... submarine/

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby rajsunder » 22 Apr 2012 00:02

Is it true that we can use this Sub for only 60 days of a year, as per our agreement with Russia??

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Altair » 22 Apr 2012 00:10

rajsunder wrote:Is it true that we can use this Sub for only 60 days of a year, as per our agreement with Russia??


Source please!

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby tejas » 22 Apr 2012 07:25

Not sure about any time limit. But I do know we paid $2.7 billion to complete building and then lease this sub. An exorbitant amount of money for a 10 year lease. This had to be a pay off for Russian "assistance" in building Arihant which I suspect was much more massive than is being publicly acknowledged.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Philip » 23 Apr 2012 04:03

Raj,I think that the media quote you have seen has mistaken the "60 days" standard patrol time,which can extend to 90 days if needed,with that of the sub's usable time each year.A conventional diesel sub has a "30 day" endurance,which can go upto 45-60 days with AIP.A nuclear powered sub can stay operational infinitely as far as the power source is concerned,but is limited by the crew's endurance capability and the amount of human logistic support (victuals,supplies,etc.) that can be carried per patrol.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2012 07:21

I assume a Fwd operating sub base will come up in A&N islands, with space for a few subs and submarine tenders to operate from. replacement crews can be flown to A&N, and food and weapons reloaded there, with minor servicing of eqpt also. this will save the trips to east and west coast for our submarines operating in east asia. eg a kilo not having to run all the way to karwar or mumbai will save 2 weeks of time.

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby rajsunder » 23 Apr 2012 20:44

Altair wrote:
rajsunder wrote:Is it true that we can use this Sub for only 60 days of a year, as per our agreement with Russia??


Source please!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cDP9iEbYLUw/T ... /NEWS2.jpg

from
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2012/04/i ... ce_05.html

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby SagarAg » 23 Apr 2012 20:45

^ That is pure DDM at its best. :rotfl:

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Re: INS Chakra joins IN - Where is the Mithai?

Postby shiv » 23 Apr 2012 20:52

Chintits blog is not necessarily the most accurate source of information in the world, but the article tells me that the MTCR disallows the transfer of missiles that have a range of over 50 nautical miles, and that Russia has never exceeded that limit.

I guess we should be thankful for our cooperation with Bechuanaland which helped us produce Brahmos missiles


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