Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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RoyG
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby RoyG » 20 Oct 2012 10:55

MediaCrooks ‏@mediacrooks
FIR regd agt Lt.Gen Tejinder Singh in GenVK bribery case.. This should open a can of worms for VK haters in the media.. StratforGupta incl


http://twitter.com/mediacrooks

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ASPuar » 20 Oct 2012 11:50

In the words of Markandeya Katju, J., chairman of Press Trust of India, "yeh choron ka mulk ban chuka hai".

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 20 Oct 2012 12:35

And finally CBI registers a case against Lt Gen (Retd) Tejinder Khanna under section 12 of Prevention of Corruption Act on the basis of complaint against him for trying to offer bribe in now (in)famous Tatra Scam. This shows that Antony really goofed up first time when reported by Gen. VKS. However what CBI would finally do , we have to wait and see.

Hats off to Gen VKS for standing his ground like a true Armyman.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 20 Oct 2012 12:52

Nation pays homage to martyrs of 1962 India-China war for first time


NEW DELHI: Paying homage to soldiers who fought in the 1962 Indo-China war, Defence Minister A K Antony today ruled out any possibility of the repeat of the war and said armed forces were confident of protecting the country against any such threat.

This is the first time that the Indian defence establishment has honoured the dead and participants of the 1962 war officially.


"I would like to assure the nation that India of today is not the India of 1962. Over the years, successive governments learning lessons from the past strengthened our capabilities and modernised our armed forces... we are confident armed forces will be able to protect the border in event of any threat," he said on the sidelines of an event to honour the soldiers of the 1962 war on its 50th anniversary.


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Antony also noted that India was holding dialogue with China to find a solution to the long-pending border dispute and has established a mechanism to "immediately settle" any tensions on the border.

Asked why did it take 50 years for the Government to honour the soldiers and martyrs of the 1962 war, the Defence Minister said, "Nothing changed. This is the 50th year and we thought this is the time the whole nation must pay our homage to the officers and jawans who lost lives to protect our border."

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby VinodTK » 20 Oct 2012 19:25

Deadly attack on Kashmir military convoy
Police in Indian-controlled Kashmir say gunmen have opened fire on a military convey and at a hotel. At least one person was killed and two were wounded.

An officer said the group attacked the convoy on the outskirts of Srinigar on Friday, then entered the grounds of the Silver Star hotel and continued firing. The three victims were hotel employees.

The officer said a search operation was under way.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 21 Oct 2012 00:47

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cbi-b ... s/1019783/

Six months after a preliminary enquiry (PE) into former Army chief V K Singh’s allegation that he was offered a Rs 14-crore bribe, CBI Saturday seized over Rs 98 lakh from the bedroom of pharma tycoon Gautam Thadani, believed to have close business links with Vectra chief Ravi Rishi.

Thadani is MD of Global Healthline Pvt Ltd, which has a chain of retail pharmacies in Delhi and NCR.

Gen (retd) V K Singh alleged in March this year that the then retired Lt Gen Tejinder Singh met him on September 22, 2010, and offered him Rs 14 crore at the behest of Ravi Rishi to clear 1,676 “substandard’’ Tatra trucks for the Army.
In April, Defence Minister A K Antony asked CBI to probe the matter.

CBI Saturday registered FIRs under Sec 12 of the Prevention of Corruption Act against both Tejinder Singh and Rishi.


It found property papers in the name of Tejinder Singh in the house of the retired Lt Gen. It searched the home of Rishi in Delhi’s Kailash Colony, and that of Thadani’s brother-in-law Rajan Madhu, the director of F Bar and Lounge at The Ashok hotel in the capital.

Raids were also carried out at the homes of Rishi’s employees Anil Mansaramani in Noida, and Vikram Kakia in Mumbai. The agency will summon the suspects for questioning soon.

Over the past six months, CBI has corroborated V K Singh’s statement, and collected evidence to establish its veracity. The “movement of procurement file of Tatra trucks”, “objections raised by then Army Chief”, and retired Lt Gen “Tejinder’s approach to Army chief” point to a “nexus” between Rishi and Tejinder, a CBI officer said.

CBI is learnt to have established that Tejinder met V K Singh on September 22, 2010. An entry made by the then Army chief in his diary on Tejinder’s bribe offer has emerged as the “clinching evidence”, sources said. Gen (retd) Singh is understood to have shown this diary to CBI investigators who visited him in the defence ministry.


The FIR was registered after CBI gathered sufficient evidence to back the allegations made by the former Army chief. Following a difference of opinion among its senior officers, the probe team sought the opinion of Director of Prosecution (DoP) Abdul Aziz, who is understood to have been in favour of filing an FIR. CBI director A P Singh then signed off on the file.

Sources in the agency confirmed to The Indian Express that while the alleged nexus between Tejinder and Rishi would be the subject matter of investigations, the fact that Defence Minister Antony named the retired lieutenant general in Parliament and complained to the CBI was important.

“We have not done anything in a hurry. We took over six months to make an assessment of the officer’s (Tejinder)reputation and links with various arms dealers and middlemen,” a CBI officer said.


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 21 Oct 2012 12:28

Victor wrote:This connectivity is still on paper and there is no road running E-W across Arunachal. Besides, what good will the IA do running from E to W when the front is in the North and the supply line in the South? A usable E-W roadway would provide much needed intra-state connectivity to Arunachalis but is just the usual Delhi bakwaas meant to fool the locals. <SNIP>.


That E-W connectivity is must and it is exactly on this lateral connectivity that Chinese score over us.

Presently, the road network represents the ribs of a Japanese fan...roads emanating from a central point (in Assam Valley) and radiating outwards and going towards various points on the border. What this means that adjacent sectors cannot support each other. And each sector needs to be treated as a stand alone entity requiring overcompensation in terms of men, material and supplies.

Any routing of men/material from one sector needs to first go south and then again move north from the hub - not an ideal situation. This way, PLA can mount overwhelming pressure against one sector w/o the fear of other sector attacking its flank or reinforcing the attacked sector.

This is where the lateral connectivity is very important.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_20067 » 21 Oct 2012 12:53

[youtube]65LAXCPRsF4&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

Sikkim

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sum » 22 Oct 2012 08:56

And once again we go backwards:
Setback for private defence industry. The future of the Future ICV project looks gloomy

The private sector’s much tom-tommed opening into defence production, via the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV), intended to replace the army’s 2,600 BMP-2s at an estimated cost of Rs 50,000 crore, faces an uncertain future. The defence ministry (MoD) is contemplating scrapping the current tender and restarting anew. This comes after sitting for two years on the FICV proposals from three private sector consortia and one public sector entity.

In early 2010, the MoD invited Tata Motors, the Mahindra Group, Larsen & Toubro and the MoD-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to submit proposals to develop an FICV, a lightly armoured vehicle that carries infantry into battle alongside tank columns. After evaluating the four proposals, the MoD was to short-list two “development partners” who would then compete to develop a prototype each. The better of the two would be selected for the army.

But the MoD’s Acquisitions Wing, which must make the short list, now complains that the tender (called an Expression of Interest, or EoI) did not define the criteria by which the winners would be selected. It wants a fresh EoI to be issued, with the criteria specified.
:-?
The wing cites the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) of 2008, where Para 22 of the “Make” category, covering the FICV project, says: “The EoI should also lay down the broad parameters of the evaluation process and acceptance criterion for the system under development.”

But the MoD brass realises that cancelling the EoI (drawn up in the ministry) and going back to 2010 would involve a serious loss of credibility. Besides, the “Make” category itself outlines the acceptance criteria, specifying that, “the contribution of the Indian industry in the critical technology areas should be the key criterion in assessment of various proposals.”

The three private sector companies worry that restarting afresh would result in the loss of at least 18 months to two years, as the MoD prepares a new EoI and then goes through a fresh evaluation process. Meanwhile, the project teams the proposed vendors have set up for the project would continue to bleed money.

And e wonder why the pvt industries dont want to come ahead in numbers


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 24 Oct 2012 12:26

sum wrote:And once again we go backwards:
Setback for private defence industry. The future of the Future ICV project looks gloomy

The private sector’s much tom-tommed opening into defence production, via the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV), intended to replace the army’s 2,600 BMP-2s at an estimated cost of Rs 50,000 crore, faces an uncertain future. The defence ministry (MoD) is contemplating scrapping the current tender and restarting anew. This comes after sitting for two years on the FICV proposals from three private sector consortia and one public sector entity.

In early 2010, the MoD invited Tata Motors, the Mahindra Group, Larsen & Toubro and the MoD-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to submit proposals to develop an FICV, a lightly armoured vehicle that carries infantry into battle alongside tank columns. After evaluating the four proposals, the MoD was to short-list two “development partners” who would then compete to develop a prototype each. The better of the two would be selected for the army.

But the MoD’s Acquisitions Wing, which must make the short list, now complains that the tender (called an Expression of Interest, or EoI) did not define the criteria by which the winners would be selected. It wants a fresh EoI to be issued, with the criteria specified.
:-?
The wing cites the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) of 2008, where Para 22 of the “Make” category, covering the FICV project, says: “The EoI should also lay down the broad parameters of the evaluation process and acceptance criterion for the system under development.”

But the MoD brass realises that cancelling the EoI (drawn up in the ministry) and going back to 2010 would involve a serious loss of credibility. Besides, the “Make” category itself outlines the acceptance criteria, specifying that, “the contribution of the Indian industry in the critical technology areas should be the key criterion in assessment of various proposals.”

The three private sector companies worry that restarting afresh would result in the loss of at least 18 months to two years, as the MoD prepares a new EoI and then goes through a fresh evaluation process. Meanwhile, the project teams the proposed vendors have set up for the project would continue to bleed money.

And e wonder why the pvt industries dont want to come ahead in numbers



Undoubtedly there are some back room shenanigans.

Such situations usually mean that some losing entity has pressed (or paid heavily to press) the reset button.

only a powerful Indian backed foreign entity can do this. :wink:

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Shrinivasan » 24 Oct 2012 22:12

^^^ see my post on this subject, this is all a tool to fleece the pvt players... Things will move forward as we get closer to the election.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby karan_mc » 25 Oct 2012 22:00

CCS clears 10,000 Russian anti-tank missiles for Indian Army

We are buying French Milan ATGM and Now orders for Russian Konkurs-M ATGM , will be getting Nag too , so why we wanted Javelin atgm in first place ?? :-? :-?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 25 Oct 2012 22:02

boss we are a boooooming economy onlee

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nakul » 25 Oct 2012 22:06

Interesting. We wanted Javelins first. Now there are som ToT issues. The experts said that ToT doesn't apply to FMS orders. So is it the end of Javelin?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 25 Oct 2012 23:04

karan_mc wrote:CCS clears 10,000 Russian anti-tank missiles for Indian Army

We are buying French Milan ATGM and Now orders for Russian Konkurs-M ATGM , will be getting Nag too , so why we wanted Javelin atgm in first place ?? :-? :-?


Need to see the things in perspective -

1. Milan ATGM is the standard Infantry man-portable ATGM of the Army. Milan-2T was bought from BEL because it has a tandem warhead and the same is considered as necessary in the era of tanks equipped with ERA tiles. But AFAIK, Milan-2T forms only fraction of the overall Milan ATGM holding of the IA and entered service only some years back.

2. Konkur-M ATGM are there to equip the BMP-2 platform of the Mechanized Infantry. This is a welcome development from using AT-4/5. From what I understand, there is an upgrade package for BMP-2 (by DRDO) where it will get 2 x Konkur-M mounted externally in a ready to fire mode. There will be further 2 externally mounted canisters either equipped with Konkur-M missiles or some sort of thermobaric missiles. Konkur is not used by the Infantry, AFAIK. However, installing Konkur on BP-2 will require modification to its targeting system as well.

(modification is something like this -
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Engineering-Technologies-2012/i-QdRr4gr/0/O/TVM2012ch2p2photo033.jpg)


3. INVAR ATGM is fired from the main gun of T-90. Again, no other use.

4. JAVELIN is the replacement for Milan ATGMs in the Indian Army. However, this is an expensive missile and I don't know whether we will see one-on-one replacement.

5. NAG is in a class of its own...it is our version of American Hellfire and in true meaning, the larger cousin of JAVELIN. Apart from NAMICA, there is no other platform which I see it employing - or, capable of employing.

What the above ATGM soup tells you quite emphatically is the need for indigenous production. Look at Spike family from Israel - from man-portable ATGM for infantry to 25 kms NLOS missile with two way data link to take out targets in deep.

Hopefully, NAG will do the same for us. As I said earlier, JAVELIN is quite expensive. I hope while it allows for transition within IA to 3rd gen F&F ATGM missile, DRDO in the interim can develop a man-portable ATGM derived from NAG for larger infantry use. Similarly, DRDO should partner with the company chosen to develop FICV to develop a customized ATGM solution derived from NAG. That way, the entire Army can transition to home grown family of ATGM.
Last edited by rohitvats on 25 Oct 2012 23:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 25 Oct 2012 23:06

What the above ATGM soup tells you quite emphatically is the need for indigenous production.


and the numbers

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby karan_mc » 25 Oct 2012 23:07

Army placed an order for 4,100 Milan-2T ATGM recently, and then 10000 Konkurs-M ATGM and 15,000 Konkurs-M ordered 5 years back and whatever which remains of old stock of 30000 Milan ATGM we have Manufactured in India , Sure very Big number of ATGM , and how many Tanks are there with neighbours ???

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 25 Oct 2012 23:13

karan_mc wrote:Army placed an order for 4,100 Milan-2T ATGM recently, and then 10000 Konkurs-M ATGM and 15,000 Konkurs-M ordered 5 years back and whatever which remains of old stock of 30000 Milan ATGM we have Manufactured in India , Sure very Big number of ATGM , and how many Tanks are there with neighbours ???



karam_mc, the requirement for various types of ATGMs adds upto almost ~100,000 and we are short of this number by a wide margin.

For example, we have ~2,600 BMP-2 in service. Now, if you equip each with 1 x ready to fire + 4 x reloads, you're talking about 13,000 first line ammunition. Now, add 5 missiles in reserve for each BMP-2. What number do you get?

Similarly, there are more than 400 infantry battalions. Hypothetically speaking, even if battalion has 10 x ATGM launcher with 1+4 missiles per launcher, you have first line requirement for 16,000 missiles. And mind you, the holding per battalion is likely to be higher.

And missiles have shelf life plus you need missiles for training of the crew and annual validation exercises. So, while those numbers look pretty large, they are IMO just about what the army needs. The requirement for tank fired ATGM pushes up the numbers but the main requirement is still for Infantry/Mechanized Infantry.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 25 Oct 2012 23:15

Surya wrote:
What the above ATGM soup tells you quite emphatically is the need for indigenous production.


and the numbers


Quite easily in the range of 40,000 to 50,000 between Infantry and Mech Infantry guys.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 25 Oct 2012 23:58

Also they are not for anti-tank role only.
Javelin was to test the US waters.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nakul » 26 Oct 2012 00:03

^^^

How did they fare?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby D Roy » 26 Oct 2012 11:44

81,206

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Shrinivasan » 26 Oct 2012 11:52

karan_mc wrote:Army placed an order for 4,100 Milan-2T ATGM recently, and then 10000 Konkurs-M ATGM and 15,000 Konkurs-M ordered 5 years back and whatever which remains of old stock of 30000 Milan ATGM we have Manufactured in India , Sure very Big number of ATGM , and how many Tanks are there with neighbours ???

IA has approx 60K Anti-Tank missiles (guided or otherwise), the problem is vintage of these... atleast half of these would be nearing the end of their shelf life soon, hence the clarion call to stock up. another issue is the rapid usage during a conflict (as highlighted by Gen VKS in his now leaked letter to the PM).
to answer your question, between the PLA and the PA, they should have a grand total of 10k tanks.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby darshhan » 26 Oct 2012 15:56

nakul wrote:^^^

How did they fare?


Pathetic.(In terms of full ToT and stopping aid to Pakistan). Basically even after India has awarded so many high value defence contracts to American firms( P-8, C-130, C-17 etc ) , America still remains India's enemy.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nakul » 26 Oct 2012 16:14

USA won't give up Pakistan in return for any deal. It is their island in the subcontinent. All the other countries are either neutral or opposed to US. I thought that the China pivot would have changed something, but nothing happened -- same old. As things grow old, they become stiff and brittle. Time will take care of the rest.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby VinodTK » 27 Oct 2012 08:01

Troops from India to train at Fort Bragg with 82nd Airborne
WASHINGTON - The Indian army will send about 400 soldiers to Fort Bragg in May for the first time for a military exercise with the 82nd Airborne Division, Army officials said Tuesday.

About 400 U.S. soldiers will be involved in the Yudh Abhyas exercise May 3-17, U.S. Army Pacific officials said.

"We started Yudh Abhyas several years ago," Lt. Gen. Francis J. Wiercinski, the commanding general of U.S. Army Pacific in Hawaii, said in an interview with The Fayetteville Observer. "It's an exchange of combat units. One year, we spent it in India. The next year, we spend it in the United States."

Wiercisnski said he has discussed the exercise with Maj. Gen. John W. Nicholson, the commanding general of the 82nd Airborne Division.

"He's excited about it," said Wiercinski. a master parachutist who made a combat parachute jump into Panama in 1989 with the Rangers but was never assigned to Fort Bragg. "I appreciate his total support on this."

Wiercinski was in Washington for the 2012 Association of the U.S. Army Annual Meeting and Exposition. He participated in panels on the "rebalancing" of Army forces in the Pacific after a decade of warfare in the Middle East. Army officials also discussed the increasing importance of aligning units to specific regions of the world such as the Pacific and Middle East.

"Most of the time, we've been doing it in the Pacific," Wiercinski said. "We wanted to give them a different flavor and a different location, and Fort Bragg was kind enough to offer it up."

Soldiers from the 18th Airborne Corps and California National Guard also will participate, Army Pacific officials said.

Indian and U.S. planners are working out the details of the exercise, but few details are available, said Lt. Col. Virginia McCabe, an 82nd Airborne Division spokeswoman.

In 2010, soldiers of U.S. Army Alaska participated in the exercise with the Indian army. An airborne unit from the 4th Airborne Brigade Combat Team of the 25th Infantry Division conducted a parachute assault. It was too early to say on Tuesday whether the Fort Bragg exercise will involve a parachute jump and exchange of parachutist badges between the soldiers of the two countries.

The purpose of the exercise will be bilateral operations, the exchange of ideas and developing the ability to work side by side, Wiercinski said.

"Last year, we had a Stryker unit in India with the Indians," he said. The U.S. soldiers worked with an Indian mounted cavalry unit.

"It was almost seamless, like they had been working together for years," Wiercinski said. "They've done competitions - squad, platoon. It's a pretty good exercise. It's evolving every year. Now at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, with the 82nd Airborne Division, I think it will be a tremendous opportunity."

The U.S. has a "budding relationship" with India, Wiercisnki said. "For years, we did not work together. Now, we are re-establishing a relationship. It's a very good relationship. They have a tremendously professional army, a lot of the same equipment."

The two armies could be called upon to work together in the future, he said.
:
:

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Oct 2012 08:19

The two armies could be called upon to work together in the future, he said.



hehehe

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ashish raval » 27 Oct 2012 13:16

^^ U.S. has advanced battlefield technology and India has boots. A combination of these two is a battlefield multiplier and can be decisive in any war. By 2025 I believe there will be only a handful of countries where Russian and Chinese influence will be present. Russia seem to be inward looking since 1990 and china seem to be busy printing U.S $$$ which they will never pay back as there is no collateral against the money they print. So chill they do what they do the best, make more allies around the world.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby JE Menon » 27 Oct 2012 20:11

And both countries have tens of thousands of combat-hardened soldiers...

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 28 Oct 2012 17:16

Received by email


Culpability for Wastage of Funds by the Army Commanders

Major General Mrinal Suman


Elements inimical to the services are at it once again. Senior army commanders are being accused of wasting crores of rupees through improper purchases made under Special Financial Powers of the Army Commanders. As per the press reports, a post-audit has been carried out of 55 transactions pertaining to financial years 2009-10 and 2010-11 by the Controller of Defence Accounts. The audit report has estimated the total loss to be to the tune of Rupees 103.11 crores. It is a serious indictment and deserves elaboration. With a view to impart enhanced autonomy in administrative and operational functioning, various financial powers have been delegated to the Army Commanders. As per the recommendations of the Committee on Defence Expenditure, the Ministry of Defence decided in November 1991 that exercise of such delegated financial powers should be with the concurrence of local financial advisors. It implies that such delegated financial powers are neither absolute nor discretionary, and can be exercised by the Army Commanders only with the prior consent of their Integrated Financial Advisor (IFA). The system of IFA aims to reduce delays and provide pre-contract expert advice to the executives for ensuring financial prudence and prevent irregularities. Role of Financial AdvisorsCommanders have to obtain prior financial concurrence of their IFA before incurring any expenditure as there is no provision for ex-post facto acquiescence.IFAs are tasked to carry out a careful and intelligent scrutiny of all proposals involving expenditure from the public funds to ensure economy, efficiency and propriety in public finance. Before according financial concurrence, it is their duty to seek complete and comprehensive justification for the proposals. They are authorised to even challenge the necessity for incurring projected expenditure for a given purchase.Unless IFA accords Acceptance of Necessity and approves the quantity to be procured, no proposal can be progressed. He questions the proposed mode of tendering and checks the list of prospective vendors. All tender documents are vetted by IFA prior to their issuance.Most importantly, IFA is always a member of the Commercial Negotiation Committee and participates in the following functions:- · Appraisal of bids as regards commercial terms, delivery schedule, performance warranty, guarantee terms and acceptance criteria. · Determination of fair and reasonable price of the product.Preparation of a ‘Comparative Statement of Tenders’ to determine lowest bidder.Undertaking negotiations with the lowest bidder to obtain best possible terms.Diligent drafting of contract to safeguard Government’s interests. Post-contract management to monitor adherence to the terms of the deal and timely invocation of penalty provisions in case of default. As is obvious, IFA exercises total and all-encompassing oversight over the complete procurement process. He can stall any procurement proposal if not convinced of its financial propriety. The Question of Culpability The said audit report faults the Army Commanders for disregarding guideline while buying foreign equipment, procuring equipment from Indian agents, accepting equipment rejected by another army entity and purchase of Chinese products which may have been embedded with malignant software. As seen above, IFAs guide commanders at every stage of the procurement process and keep a close oversight. If that be so, onus for rendering faulty financial advice or clearing faulty cases rests on them. They should be asked to explain alleged irregularities and infirmities. How can an Army Commander be blamed for adhering to the advice of his IFA? If that be so, why have IFAs at all?Most outrageously, the audit report states that the local financial advisors are
intimidated by military officers in command. One has not come across a more preposterous and bizarre statement. No IFA ever gets intimidated. On the contrary, they are overbearing, domineering and suffer from an acute ‘rank-equivalence-complex’. They keep comparing their pay scales with those of the service officers to draw equations with different ranks. This complex manifests itself in their condescending attitude as they tend to assume the role of dispenser of favours while according financial concurrence. Therefore, the question of their getting intimidated is all baloney. Inadequacies of the Current DispensationIt is incongruous that a duly pre-audited procurement process is found to be flawed in post-audit. Interestingly, both pre-audit and post-audit are carried out by the officials of the Defence Finance and their roles are inter-changeable. Unfortunately, the prime reason for the current weakness of the system is the failure of the Defence Finance officials to deliver. They are expected to act as defence financial advisors but are ill-equipped for the task. They know nothing about the armed forces, their equipment and functioning. Worse, most are equally ignorant of financial management tools. During a survey of the educational qualifications of the top 50 Defence Finance officers, it was seen that most of them did not possess even elementary knowledge of finance/economics – only 8 percent had studied economics at the post-graduate level. Most were post-graduates in subjects like Political Science, English, Sociology and Sanskrit. Such officials cannot be expected to grasp minutiae of financial imperatives and perform defence economic advisory functions. Finally Let us look at the unenviable position of the Army Commanders. They have been asked to follow the advice of their IFAs while exercising their delegated financial powers. They are justified in assuming that all procurement proposals vetted and cleared by IFAs are in consonance with the Government rules and regulations. Therefore, it is absurd that the Army Commanders be held responsible for any alleged irregularities or omissions.It should be for IFAs to justify the procedure followed. They and they alone should be held accountable for faulty advice and oversight. Quite appallingly, IFAs disown any responsibility under the plea that decision making is the prerogative of the executives and they cannot be held accountable for the same. It is a most ludicrous excuse.The fact of the matter is that the armed forces are a soft target. The said audit report is a part of the well-orchestrated campaign to denigrate them through planted selective leaks.

chetak
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 28 Oct 2012 17:25

THE MEN WHO SAVED THE KASHMIR VALLEY

Lt-Gen (Retd) Harwant Singh
Chandigarh, 27 Oct 2012






Oct 27 is celebrated as ‘Infantry Day’ in the Indian Army. On this day, Indian troops were air lifted from Delhi and landed at Srinagar to protect the airfield and save the town of Srinagar from falling into the hands of raiders. Pakistan had let loose the tribal hordes along with its military personnel to capture the valley and then later the whole of J & K. Indian Government for various reasons delayed the dispatch of troops to J & K and the information regarding the location of raiders was scanty. The status of the airfield at Srinagar was not clear and the possibility of it having already fallen to the raiders was very much on the cards.



In the early hours of 27 October 1947, Lt-Col Ranjit Rai, commanding officer of 1 Sikh along with his C and D companies took off in IAF Dakotas from Delhi on a mission to save the town of Srinagar and it's airfield from falling into the hands of Tribal Lashkars. This invasion of J & K was under the overall command of Maj Gen Akbar Khan of Pak army and had been code named, 'General Tariq.' No one in Delhi knew that the town of Baramullah, the gateway to the valley had already fallen to the enemy on the evening of 26 Oct. From Baramullah, Srinagar and the airfield were just over an hour’s drive and there was no opposition en-route. The task given to Ranjit Rai and his troops of 1 Sikh had all the ingredients of a ‘Mission Impossible’.



Maharaja Hari Singh of J & K had been dreaming of an independent Kashmir, till he was suddenly and unexpectedly jolted out of his reverie on the evening of Oct 22, by the invasion of his state at many points. The state forces though ill equipped and widely dispersed put up a gallant fight everywhere but at each point they were being over-whelmed by sheer numbers. Hari Singh was left with no choice but to seek India's help. However, India was concerned about the legality of the issue and would not extend any help till Hari Singh signed the Instrument of Accession. He dithered and dilly-dallied and all this while, the raiders were making deep inroads into the state at various entry points. He finally signed the document on 26 Oct.



Had the government of India acted in anticipation, troops and air craft could have been assembled on 24 or 25 Oct and the first unit flown out to Srinagar on the afternoon of 26 Oct itself. Be that as it may, but once the decision to go to the aid of J & K was taken everything moved rather fast. Indian troops were dispersed all over Punjab and UP to quell communal riots. Only 1 Madras was available in Delhi.



However the unit nominated to fly to Srinagar first was 1 Sikh, which was deployed all over Gurgaon district. It was only by late evening of 26 Oct that Battalion HQ and C and D companies could be assembled at Delhi. Next morning at 5.30 AM, Lt Col Ranjit Rai with his two companies took-off for Srinagar in IAF Dakotas. Just before take-off he was given one set of maps and the operational order from Army HQ. This order did not mention about the fall of Baramullah or the strength of the raiders but noted the chaos and panic in Srinagar. Elsewhere the instructions read that, 'If radio communication with the airfield at Srinagar is not established and you are not given permission to land there then you will return to Jammu and disembark. At Jammu you will requisition civil transport and send reconnaissance party by road to Srinagar.......... '



Ranjit Rai and his two companies landed at Srinagar at 9.30 AM and after getting hold of whatever transport he could lay his hands on, dispatched C company under Capt Kamaljit Singh to Baramullah to defend that town. D company under Maj Harwant Singh, MC, was sent to Srinagar to carry out a flag march to restore order and confidence amongst the population. He himself decided to stay on at the airfield and await the arrival of his remaining two companies and take them to Baramullah. Capt Kamaljit on approaching Baramullah, saw smoke columns rising from the town and realised that it had fallen to the invaders. He, therefore, decided to take up defences at Mile 32; a few miles short of Baramullah. There were no mines or defence stores and digging tools were few but the defenders were stout of heart.



Maj Harwant Singh after the flag march in Srinagar, left one platoon for the protection of the bridge over Jhelum at Sopore (7 miles East of Srinagar) and another platoon for the defence of the airfield and himself, with one platoon, joined Kamaljit at mile 32 at 4.30AM on 28 Oct. Thus the total strength at Mile 32 was two company HQs, four platoons, section 3 inch mortars and few personnel of state forces horse cavalry, in all about 140 to 150 men. That is all there was between thousands of raiders and Srinagar.



Unknown to many and not even recorded in the official history of J & K operations, is the destruction of the steel bridge, over Uri Nalla, under the direct supervision of Brigadier Rajinder Singh, C-in-C of J & K forces in the face of advancing enemy. This officer of the J & K state forces, not withstanding his high rank, had joined the forward troops. He was killed in this action and was awarded MVC (posthumous). The destruction of the steel bridge over Uri nala proved crucial, because the enemy spent two days to make an improvised crossing thereby delaying its march on Srinagar.



Ranjit Rai, the commanding officer of 1 Sikh, had no communications with his troops because the aircraft carrying the communication equipment had developed a snag and had en-route force landed at Jammu. When his two other companies did not arrive on the morning of Oct 28, he decided to move forward and join his troops at mile 32 leaving instructions with the adjutant that as soon as the remaining two companies land these be sent forward without delay. Around 11.30 AM, the enemy, a few thousand in number, supported by heavy machine guns and 3 inch mortars attacked the position at mile 32.



This attack was held in check and when the enemy found that it could not dislodge the Sikhs, it started moving around the position with a view to cut them off from the rear. When the remaining two companies did not arrive and the situation at mile 32 had become untenable, Ranjit Rai decided to withdraw troops from mile 32. By now the withdrawal route was nearly cut off by the enemy. It was during this very difficult task of extricating his troops from the enemy cordon that Lt-Col Ranjit Rai fell to an enemy bullet. He was free India’s first officer to lay down his life for the country and also became the first to win the MVC (posthumous). Troops fell back to, ‘spill channel’ a few kms outside Srinagar. Here the remaining two companies of 1 Sikh and Patiala field battery in infantry role joined this position.



The enemy mounted a series of full blooded attacks to the beat of drums, as is the wont of tribals from the NWFP, but they found it impossible to dislodge troops of 1 Sikh. After all Indian army had dispatched one of its finest battalion to defend the Kashmir valley and there was no way the tribals and Pak army personnel, not withstanding their overwhelming numbers, could get the better of these men.



1 Sikh set the stage for the battle of Shallatang where 1 Para (Kumaon ) under Pritam Singh, MC, and other troops including armed car troop under Lieutenant David Sidhu of Deccan Horse also joined. At the battle of Shallatang the enemy was thoroughly beaten and its ambition to capture the valley finally sealed.



Who then really saved the valley? Was it brigadier Rajinder Singh whose action in destroying the bridge over Uri Nallah, imposed a delay of two days on the enemy. Or the enemy itself which wasted two days at Baramullah in arson, looting and rape or was it Lt Col Ranjit Rai whose bold decision to push forward his troops towards Baramullah and himself joining them to keep the enemy at bay, rather than merely defend the airfield, as was the task given to him. Perhaps it were those handful of plucky and resolute lads of 1 Sikh as they held the tribal hordes at bay and are not known, who really saved the Kashmir valley.



Lt Gen (Retd) Harwant Sigh is former Deputy Chief of Army Staff

Singha
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Singha » 28 Oct 2012 18:15

chilling to read. a thin khaki line indeed saved the day. a single Co, with a few MGs and mortars to defend against a tribal horde is a huge risk.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sum » 28 Oct 2012 21:29

^^ A true meaning to the statement "Barbarians at the Gate".

The evry thought that just one line of IA was what separated rest of the state from these barbarians is too chilling to even imagine!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 29 Oct 2012 00:46

Tomb of the Unknown Soldier (US Army)


Jeopardy Question No One Could answer, Do You Know?


ARLINGTON CEMETERY

Jeopardy
Question:

On
Jeopardy the other night, the final question was
"How many steps does the guard take during his
walk across the tomb of the Unknowns" ----
All three contestants missed it! --


This
is really an awesome sight to watch if you've
never had the chance .
Very fascinating.


Tomb
of the Unknown Soldier


1.
How many steps does the guard take during his
walk across the tomb of the Unknowns
and why?



21
steps:
It
alludes to the twenty-one gun salute which
is the
highest honor given any military or foreign
dignitary.



2.
How long does he hesitate after his about face
to begin his return
walk and why?



21
seconds for the same reason as answer number
1


3.
Why are his gloves wet?


His
gloves are moistened to prevent his losing his
grip on the rifle.



4.
Does he carry his rifle on the same shoulder all
the time
and,if
not, why not?



He
carries the rifle on the shoulder away from the
tomb. After his march across the
path,he
executes an about face and moves the rifle to
the outside shoulder.


5.
How often are the guards changed?


Guards
are changed every thirty minutes,
twenty-four hours a day, 365 days a
year.



6.
What are the physical traits of the guard
limited to?

For
a person to apply for guard duty at the tomb, he
must be
between 5' 10' and 6' 2' tall and
his waist size cannot exceed 30.


They
must commit 2 years of life to guard the tomb,
live in a barracks under the tomb, and cannot
drink any alcohol on or off duty for the rest of
their lives. They cannot swear in public for the
rest of their lives and cannot disgrace the
uniform or the tomb in any way.


After
two years, the guard is given a wreath pin that
is worn on
their lapel signifying they
served as guard of the tomb. There are only
400 presently worn. The guard must obey
these rules for the rest of their
lives or
give up the wreath pin.


The
shoes are specially made with very thick soles
to keep the heat and cold from their feet.
There are metal heel plates that extend to
the top
of the shoe in order to make the loud click as
they come to a halt.

There are no
wrinkles, folds or lint on the uniform. Guards
dress for duty
in front of a full-length
mirror.

The first six months of duty a
guard cannot talk to anyone nor
watch TV.
All off duty time is spent studying the 175
notable people laid
to rest in
Arlington National Cemetery .
A guard must memorize who they are and where
they are interred. Among the notables are:

President Taft,
Joe L ewis {the boxer}
Medal of Honor winner Audie L. Murphy, the most
decorated soldier of WWII and of Hollywood fame.Every guard spends five hours a day getting his uniforms ready for guard duty..

ETERNAL
REST GRANT THEM O LORD AND LET PERPETUAL LIGHT
SHINE UPON THEM.

In
2003 as Hurricane Isabelle was
approaching Washington ,
DC , our
US Senate/House took 2 days
off with anticipation of the storm. On the ABC
evening news, it was reported that because of
the dangers from the
hurricane, the military
members assigned the duty of guarding the Tomb
of
the Unknown Soldier were given permission
to suspend the assignment. They

respectfully declined the offer, "No way,
Sir!" Soaked to the skin,
marching in the
pelting rain of a tropical storm, they said that
guarding
the Tomb was not just an assignment,
it was the highest honor that can be
afforded
to a service person. The tomb has been patrolled
continuously,
24/7, since 1930.

God
Bless and keep them.

I'd be
very proud if this email
reached as many as possible. We can be very
proud of our young men
and women
in the service no matter where they serve.

Singha
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2012 07:44

Wow didnt know it was such a hard monastic order.

rohitvats
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 29 Oct 2012 08:19

^^^^and compare the situation with ours.....India paid homage to those who laid down their lives in 1962 for the first tjme this year...and yet, day after day, night after night, war after war, young men don't hesitate to walk down the path of martyrs...sigh!!!

Surya
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 29 Oct 2012 08:26

Tsk Tsk

Emails like this should always be verified at snopes :)


this one is not that bad - truths and some embellishments

and Singha relax - its not a monastic order - no american kid would ever go for it :)

http://www.snopes.com/military/unknown.asp

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby putnanja » 30 Oct 2012 03:36

Please read in full ...

‘Nobody believed we had killed so many Chinese at Rezang La. Our commander called me crazy and warned that I could be court-martialled’

...
Charlie Company of a battalion called 13 Kumaon was divided in several platoons on one ridge of two kilometres, protecting the airfield of Chushul which was vital if India was to hold Ladakh. It was attacked on the morning of November 18 by maybe 5,000-6,000 Chinese with heavy artillery support. A crest behind this ridge prevented Indian artillery from being able to support these jawans. And what did these jawans do? They fought to last man, last round. That’s an expression you hear in movies and read in war comics, but that is something that actually happened in the battle of Rezang La. Of the 120 men and officers of this Company, 114 died, five were taken prisoners as wounded—they all escaped—and one was sent back to tell the story of the battle to the rest of the world.
...
...
All the names of your comrades are written on the memorial here in Rewari. The list here says that 114 jawans killed 1,300 Chinese enemies that day.
...
...


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