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Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ranjan.rao
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 24 Jan 2017 22:42

one less dainted and painted missile for us to destroy in war time..

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby LokeshC » 24 Jan 2017 23:02

Have there ever been failures of any test firing by the Bakis.

I mean atleast one of their WuDu DingDongs or DungFans or whatever it is they are testing must have "Phuc Dup" atleast one time no? A cursory search on Chacha gives no satisfactory answer.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jan 2017 23:03

No failures are publicly acknowledged in the Land of the Pure. All their missiles have a 100% success rate because they are imported directly from China. They are only involved in painting it.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby venug » 25 Jan 2017 01:00

Pakistan Tests Ballistic Missile Capable of Carrying Multiple Nuclear Warheads

Tuesday’s maiden flight test of the Ababeel missile was announced by military spokesman Major General Asif Ghafoor. He said it “has the capability to engage multiple targets with high precision, defeating the enemy’s hostile radars.”

shameless in their claims :
Earlier this month, Pakistan successfully tested for the first time a submarine-launched, nuclear-capable cruise missile with a range of 450 kilometers.


:) with this launch they have proved :
1. MIRV capability
2. Ability to Miniature their nukes

All in one stroke, take you kafurs.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 01:12

Are they drinking a special magic potion? How do we get access to that potion?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 25 Jan 2017 01:14

underestimating Pakistani DTTI Djinn Tech training institutes?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Khalsa » 25 Jan 2017 01:17

Dhoti Shivering is ON Baby
:D

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Sid » 25 Jan 2017 03:10

This Alibaba-beel and Barber launches are China's response to India's Agni V.

They just made sure that India will reveal its MIRV model launched from a submarine, thank you China :)

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Bheeshma » 25 Jan 2017 03:16

Only ones shivering will the poor pakis that have to carry this chinese tech around. Never know where it will go off. As per standard paki practice the tested range seems very small < 1200 km?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby disha » 25 Jan 2017 05:52

The new missile is called "Abey-Bill"., in direct challenge to Bill Clinton who had to implement the pressler amendment on Bakistan. The word is Hyderabadi, K'taka - as in "Abey" is a start of a slur meant to challenge.

Additionally, the 1st stage has big strong TFTA fins., SDRE missiles do not have any fins. That indicates that the rocket has complete control while it is going up in atmosphere while SDRE missiles are without any control laws.

Do not understand why B'gluru, Keralites are doing lungi dance!!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shiv » 25 Jan 2017 08:54

From the image it appears that Abeybull is about 13 meters/40 feet tall and has a "head" (cone base) diameter of nearly 3 meters (2.5 plus meters). Assuming that the single storey building by the side is 3 meters in height.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 25 Jan 2017 09:10

Got it on fb
How Missile tests are conducted in Rest of the world

1. Research

2. Theoretical models

3. Experimental validation

4. Prototype

5. Manufacturing

6. Testing

How Missile tests are conducted in Pakistan

1. Nawaz Sharif goes to US with begging bowl

2. Loan sanctioned from US for fighting Taliban

3. Nawaz Sharif goes to China

4. China supplies 10 missiles

5. Pakistan paints it green

6. Changes name from ShinXi to Shaheen

7. Waits for 8 months since Chinese forgot to supply Missile manual

8. Test conducted in 9th month

9. "We will see India now" tweets from Pakistanis for next one year.

The end.

Credit: Vashi Sharma

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 25 Jan 2017 09:53

^^ Whatever be the case, fact is TSP has the mizziles in the end and it is a headache we have to deal with ( just like it doesn't matter if the TSP-ians have designed 100% or 400% of their nukes but they finally have something which causes us to spend lots to counter-measure)

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby schinnas » 25 Jan 2017 09:54

China makes good on its warning after Agni V and Agni IV tests. No surprises. Need to induct Agni V with MIRV capabilities in double quick speed.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shiv » 25 Jan 2017 10:01

schinnas wrote:China makes good on its warning after Agni V and Agni IV tests. No surprises. Need to induct Agni V with MIRV capabilities in double quick speed.

That reaction means that China can provoke India to change its course and that Indian actions are unplanned and dictated by how India can be made to dance by China playing Pakistan. I don't think we need to react to this at all by showing "We also have MIRVs". China wants us to point mijjies at Pakistan. If we react at all we must react by pointing more mijjiles at China

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Yagnasri » 25 Jan 2017 10:42

@Ranjan Raoji - You mean people are out there who belive that they can paint it :rotfl: :rotfl: and read the manual? Really? :mrgreen:

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Jan 2017 10:48

The new Ababeel does have some resemblance to DF 21 missile.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 25 Jan 2017 11:17

Ababeel , looks like a 3 stage missile , The first 2 stage has vented interstage like Agni-2

The 3rd stage or what appears to be like a third stage is very interesting , Instead of maintaining a uniform circular stage , it broadens up like a Satellite Launch Vehical , which is to say the payload section looks broader then the second stage one.

That is where the MIRV claim looks to be the broader third stage like a satellite launch vehical can carry multiple payloads else there is no reason to make it larger dia compared to second stage unless you are carrying a bigger ( in size ) payload.

I am not sure if between second and third stage there is interstage seperation or ullage motor like we used in older agni.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby nirav » 25 Jan 2017 11:21

Rakesh wrote:Are they drinking a special magic potion? How do we get access to that potion?


Acquire Halal virgin goat blood, snackbar it 72 times.

Potions ready to use, 100% success rate @ mijjiles guaranteed.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 25 Jan 2017 11:26

To me Ababeel BM looks something like this based on Low Resolution pics available

Image

[*]Sorry for poor paint job
Last edited by Austin on 25 Jan 2017 11:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 25 Jan 2017 11:28

See no reason why it cant do a 3000-3500 km range based on number of stages unless it has low fuel mass fraction due to non use of composites stages or it is politically correct to say it is just 2,200 km

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby nirav » 25 Jan 2017 13:15

I support bakis acquiring longer ranged mijjiles.

About time the gora pakis in londonistan and their cousins have nightmares of the isloo nuclear mijjiles.

Won't mind them having a twu ICBM too, capable of hitting their erstwhile mai baap.

Helps establish terrorist country credentials.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Aditya G » 25 Jan 2017 14:30

The first 2 stage are from shaheen2 missile

Image


Austin wrote:Ababeel , looks like a 3 stage missile , The first 2 stage has vented interstage like Agni-2

The 3rd stage or what appears to be like a third stage is very interesting , Instead of maintaining a uniform circular stage , it broadens up like a Satellite Launch Vehical , which is to say the payload section looks broader then the second stage one.

That is where the MIRV claim looks to be the broader third stage like a satellite launch vehical can carry multiple payloads else there is no reason to make it larger dia compared to second stage unless you are carrying a bigger ( in size ) payload.

I am not sure if between second and third stage there is interstage seperation or ullage motor like we used in older agni.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 25 Jan 2017 14:51

Aditya , You are right it is only after interstage 2 & 3 that we see something new a short rocket booster which looks like a 3rd stage motor and then a broader/larger diameter PBV which likely holds the MIRV covered by payload fairing.

I am just thinking if the large dia is a proper bus with liquid engine or the 3rd stage is used to fly the MIRV , both cases are possible.

Any ways an interesting configuration for missile never seen such configuration except for SLV.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 25 Jan 2017 21:45

Yagnasri wrote:@Ranjan Raoji - You mean people are out there who belive that they can paint it :rotfl: :rotfl: and read the manual? Really? :mrgreen:

yagnasri ji you completely ignored my prior comment on DTTI:Djinn Tech Training institutes. Aaam abduls and gernails will not do such menial work, that is left to us SDRE's originals from the land (hindi) of pure

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 23:56

India already has an effective missile defence shield to intercept Pakistan's 'Ababeel' missile
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250099

Well this is a first (AFAIK)....guess even bullshit has a limit....

Meanwhile, tall claims made by Pakistan have again raised doubt within Indian science community. Dr Chander wonders if Pakistan's claim regarding MIRV technology in a short-range missile with a range of just 2,200km is true. According to veteran missile scientist, use of such technologies in a short range missile is difficult. Primarily, it is used in long range missile. So we need to wait for more substantial inputs to verify Pakistan's claims.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby LokeshC » 26 Jan 2017 11:14

Confused, why would a short range missile NOT be mirved?

Even 1000km trajectory gives enough time to coast and release the payloads.

I am pretty sure i am missing something (noobie here)

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jan 2017 20:46

Pakistan’s interest in buying Shenyang J-31 from China is a Red-Flag for India
http://www.defenceaviation.com/2014/12/ ... india.html

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jan 2017 20:55

Ex Pak Army Chief Raheel allotted 90 acres land as farewell gift...
https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 2311630849

Gen Raheel gets 90 acres for agriculture
http://www.dawn.com/news/1310568/gen-raheel-gets-90-acres-for-agriculture

The allotment of 90 acres of prime land here to former army chief Gen Raheel Sharif sparks a lot of debate despite security establishment’s explanation that there was nothing out of the ordinary about it.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jan 2017 23:34

Ababeel means "flock of birds" in Arabic. Pakistan just fired a Chinese missile with an Arabic name.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 0927537153

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jan 2017 23:43

Here we go again....cannot afford the Rafale, so they will go begging to the UAE for their Dash-9s and ask to provide them as baksheesh. This is to achieve some level of parity vis-à-vis the Rafale. Being saying this for the longest time. We should get the Dash-5s from Qatar and the Dash-9s from the UAE. Way cheaper than buying another 36 Rafales.

UAE - 32 new build Mirage 2000-9s and 30 older Mirage 2000s upgraded to the Dash 9 standard.
Qatar - 12 Mirage 2000-5s

UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s
http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_news ... 00-9s/5264

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Lalmohan » 26 Jan 2017 23:47

the gift of prime agricultural land to Punjabi muslim officers is a time honoured tradition started by the al-bartania mai baap to buy the service of that class of men. therein lies the focus on the life giving rivers and therein lies the obsession with the jaguar vein of cashmere (where the headwaters lie)

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby RoyG » 27 Jan 2017 00:55

Rakesh wrote:India already has an effective missile defence shield to intercept Pakistan's 'Ababeel' missile
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250099

Well this is a first (AFAIK)....guess even bullshit has a limit....

Meanwhile, tall claims made by Pakistan have again raised doubt within Indian science community. Dr Chander wonders if Pakistan's claim regarding MIRV technology in a short-range missile with a range of just 2,200km is true. According to veteran missile scientist, use of such technologies in a short range missile is difficult. Primarily, it is used in long range missile. So we need to wait for more substantial inputs to verify Pakistan's claims.


I have reason to believe that it is MRV capable like the Polaris. They are clustered to hit a common target but they are NOT independently targeted (MIRV) which require sufficient midcourse glide and maneuvering bus. This missile is revealing for the following reasons:

* SPD has come to the logical conclusion that it CANNOT expect a graduated response up the escalation ladder due to SFC massive retaliation protocol thereby limiting any chance of deescalation.

* India's maturing capability to counter force along w/ development of ABMs and emerging sea borne deterrent has prompted SPD to place a premium on w/e remaining deterrent left after a first strike perform adequate counter value for a given target. Given that they face yield limitations it makes sense to cluster the warheads to do this.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jan 2017 21:58

Zia-ul-Haq told Ronald Reagan Pakistan wouldn’t acquire nuclear bomb, reveal documents :rotfl:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 806923.cms

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 01 Feb 2017 06:13

TAI to upgrade Pakistan's F-16 MLUs with night time capability

The Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) fleet of 45 F-16A/B Block-15 Mid-Life Update (MLU)s will be upgraded by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) with improved nighttime capabilities, C4Defence reports.

As per C4Defence, TAI is optimizing “the aircraft’s cockpit for night flights.” Part of this program, TAI will install night-vision goggles. Thus far, two PAF F-16 Block-15s have been upgraded, with the work taking place in Shahbaz Air Base. In tandem with training, TAI will provide the PAF with 43 upgrade kits, enabling the PAF to carry out the upgrade in Pakistan.

..


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2017 21:40

Myanmar in advanced negotiations to licence-build JF-17 fighter

http://www.janes.com/article/67387/myan ... 17-fighter
After deciding to purchase 16 JF-17 Thunder multi-role combat aircraft in 2015, Myanmar is now in advanced negotiations with Pakistan to also licence-build the third-generation fighter, defence industry sources in Yangon and sources close to the Myanmar Air Force (MAF) told Jane's in mid-January.

If an agreement is reached, Myanmar's bid to manufacture the single-engine combat aircraft - co-developed by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) - could mark a significant step forward in the country's efforts to expand its local defence industry.

As the MAF phases out its obsolete fleet of F-7M Airguard and A-5C 'Fantan' combat aircraft purchased from China in the 1990s, licensed production of the JF-17 Thunder would also mean that the aircraft will likely become the MAF's workhorse over the coming decades in much the same way as it has moved to prominence within the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

At least 70 of the fighters are in service with the PAF, with the first ones having entered service in 2009. Expectations are that the PAF will induct up to 150 JF-17 Thunder fighters in the coming years.

The first of 16 imported JF-17s ordered by Myanmar are expected to go into service with the MAF later this year. Speaking on condition of anonymity, sources told Jane's that these aircraft will be of the Block II variant, which was first rolled out from the PAC's Kamra plant in 2015 and which, unlike the Block I variant, features an air-to-air refuelling capability and improved avionics and electronics.

It is unclear whether later deliveries to the MAF will include the far more advanced Block III variant being produced at Kamra since last year. Sources told Jane's that in the context of ongoing negotiations on licensed production, Myanmar is seeking to produce the aircraft's Block III variant.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 02 Feb 2017 04:03

India should pay to pilots of one of these air forces to defect with these junk fighters to assess their true capability and do some TFTA analysis of LCA v/s JF17 to dent paki H&D

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 02 Feb 2017 06:23

Civilian Rule is Repugnant to Pakistan
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... -pakistan/

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Gagan » 07 Feb 2017 22:20

Someone's deterrence just went up in smoke!
Sandeep ‏@SandeepUnnithan 10h10 hours ago

'Yield of Pak N tests couple of KTs...their (tactical N) doctrine born out of necessity?' Dr Anil Kakodkar @FINSHQ
Image

Pakis have been trying to make virtue out of failure.
All they have are fizzles. They call them "tactical warheads"
:rotfl:

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 03:09

Fulfiling A Terrible Destiny: Why Pakistan Is A Failed State By Design And Not Accident
https://swarajyamag.com/books/fulfiling ... t-accident


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