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Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Aditya G
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Aditya G » 19 Mar 2017 03:25

Austin wrote:....From Dr Samar interview and in past they have mentioned that TNW would be used against military formation of IA crosses deep into Pakistan and pakistan conventional forces cannot stop them , they would use TNW against our troops.


Some debate here are there on Indian nuclear strategy - but I have hardly seen any of Pakistani strategy. Are TNWs effective against an armour thrust? If there are multiple armour thrusts, will you launch at multiple places? If your forces are entangled with the opposing forces, will you kill them? What if the situation on ground is muddled - with your forces are succeeding in some and destroyed in some? What if IA penetrates only 5-10 clicks in each area and holds the ground?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 19 Mar 2017 03:58

on a related note, off late I have been thinking after S400 and ABM, which are pretty much within 5 year horizon; how will pakistan NOOK us (implying our
main cities or centers e.g. Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore?

Firstly the reliability of their ballistic/cruise missiles is highly suspect, even if they do the missile defence can neutralize some of them.
Secondly, as for their fighter jets with AWACs/AEWS, Su30s and IADS it can be taken care of
Not sure of the evolution of their naval capabilities in the next 5 years. There are only two avenues left for them 1. saturation BM/Cruise attacks 2. is use tactical nuclear weapons advancing IA columns or in the ingress they make in our territory.

May be I am turning into a fanboy

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 22 Mar 2017 23:41

Image

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 24 Mar 2017 11:06

WikiLeaks Retweeted https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/statu ... 5480631297
omar r quraishi‏Verified account @omar_quraishi 12h12 hours ago

CIA officers in a list circulated in 2010 by the Pakistan Govt to its embassies - asking visas not be issued to them


Image

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 24 Mar 2017 11:07

Pakistan Day Parade 2017 | 23 March 2017 Parade Full Show


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 24 Mar 2017 11:07

More Pictures of Pakistan Day Parade http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2506941.html

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby rohitvats » 24 Mar 2017 11:15

^^^Austin, thanks for posting this. Was searching for it.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby nam » 24 Mar 2017 15:39

No acrobats by the great JF17? only F16s.

Two different TELs for the missiles. Either the Chinese have stopped producing this variant of TELs or it getting expensive to have more of them.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby nam » 24 Mar 2017 15:55

MRSAM have desert camouflage, while other vehicles are green.

What is this kit behind the motharma's, BFSR?
Image
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17425066_10154749853612663_8687415998973376978_n.jpgoh=fd7a5bd5d87056fb712c3017a3267dff&oe=596755A3

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sudhan » 24 Mar 2017 16:29

Austin wrote:WikiLeaks Retweeted https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/statu ... 5480631297
omar r quraishi‏Verified account @omar_quraishi 12h12 hours ago


It looks like a wish list to me. Asking for three months single entry visa. Do the ticks next to the serial numbers mean they were deemed not CIA?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2017 19:54

er wotzis :D
Image

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2017 23:59

Pay $7.85 mn Outstanding Membership Fees for 7 Years or Get Out - SAARC Countries to Pakistan
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=251140

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 25 Mar 2017 00:00


Austin
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 25 Mar 2017 00:01

shiv wrote:er wotzis :D
Image


Sharp Pair of Eyes you got :lol: :lol:

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 25 Mar 2017 00:41

Image

Are those slippers these guys are wearing!?!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rakesh » 25 Mar 2017 00:46

yes, to beat themselves and their fellow soldiers when they lose.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Aditya G » 25 Mar 2017 03:44

Raad II?

Image

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby SSridhar » 25 Mar 2017 15:25

‘Strategy needed against emerging challenges in Indian Ocean Region’ - DT
Emerging challenges in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) pose a serious threat to Pakistan’s security and interests, and a comprehensive strategy is required for addressing them.

This was the conclusion of a roundtable on maritime security hosted by the Centre for Pakistan and Gulf Studies (CPGS) in collaboration with a German foundation Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung (KAS). {What has a distant Germany got to do with IOR and that too in collaboration with a Pakistani think-tank?} The deliberations at the roundtable would feed into a daylong national conference being organised by the CPGS and the KAS on ‘Maritime Security in the Indian Ocean: Challenges and Prospects for Pakistan’ on Monday.

The roundtable had concluded that challenges to peace in IOR were mainly emanating from its nuclearisation and power projection by states maintaining presence in the area and emerging alliances in the region.

Additionally, challenges like terrorism, piracy and environmental concerns were further complicating the scenario. Pakistan’s participation in China’s One Belt, One Road initiative, meanwhile, adds to the urgency for developing a strategy for dealing with threats to peace. {This is being parroted in order to justify handing over Gwadar to PLAN, acquiring new sea-based weapons, possibly Chinese SSN etc}

Pakistan has already taken several steps, including the raising of a special maritime force Task Force-88 (TF-88), for protection of Gwadar Port and its sea-lanes. But the CPGS believes a bigger effort is required.

Speaking on the occasion, CPGS President Senator Sehar Kamran said, “Pakistan's stakes in the maritime arena are extremely high, which are directly impacted by multifaceted threats and challenges, both traditional and non-traditional threats, but more importantly the emerging Indo-US strategic partnership, an increased Chinese interest and presence in the region, Indo-Iran and Indo-Gulf cooperation, Indian ambitions and the nuclearisation of the ocean.

The national conference is, therefore, being held to deliberate on the complex environment, intertwined interests and strategic concerns, and propose the future course of action and responses.

Federal Minister for Defence Production Rana Tanveer Hussain would be the chief guest at the conference that would feature key note speeches by National Security Adviser Lt Gen (r) Nasser Janjua and former chief of naval staff Admiral (r) Asif Sandila. A number of maritime experts would also present their papers on the occasion.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Paul » 25 Mar 2017 20:25

Frontier corpsmen wear sort of sandals since pre 47 days

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Karan M » 26 Mar 2017 02:25

durbans at dilli restaurants are dressed better and look more martial than that sad sack bunch of potbellued guardsmen

also the entire parade shows increasing radicalization imho. many unshaved types.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Khalsa » 27 Mar 2017 05:35

Kartik wrote:Image

Are those slippers these guys are wearing!?!


HOLY KEY RAAP
now I have seen everything.

Seriously Seriously
WTF and Mega LOL

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 27 Mar 2017 11:58

Arvind Kejriwal would definitely approve of such chappals being worn on a ceremonial parade. Very Aam Aadmi type soldiers.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 31 Mar 2017 14:00

Pakistan’s (Non-Nuclear) Plan to Counter ‘Cold Start’

http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/pakistan ... old-start/
Tactical nuclear weapons get most of the attention, but Islamabad is also building up conventional capabilities.
By Meenakshi Sood
March 25, 2017

While the details of India’s Cold Start Doctrine (CSD) have been kept ambiguous, its existence has been the worst-kept secret since its inception in 2004. The term “cold start” is of colloquial origin and was not used in the 2004 publication Indian Army Doctrine, with the Army itself preferring the term “Pro-Active Doctrine.” Hence, until this January, when the new Chief of Army Staff General Bipin Rawat called the doctrine by its better known name, its existence was unconfirmed. With the naming ceremony coming to an end, it is perhaps time to move on to the larger question of how Pakistan has responded to CSD, about which there has been precious little debate in the public forum in India. Slowly but surely, Pakistan has devised a conventional response to CSD, even as India’s myopic threat assessment remains focused on the nuclear developments.

The genesis of CSD lies in the squandered hope for peace that overt nuclearization in the subcontinent had ignited. Despite India and Pakistan testing nuclear weapons in 1998, the Kargil War in 1999 and the attack on the Indian parliament in 2001 showed that nuclear weapons could not stabilize the region — quite the contrary. In the wake of the attack on the parliament, India launched Operation Parakram, which entailed military mobilization along the Line of Control (LOC) and the International Border. However, the operation could not achieve its objective as it took a month for Indian troops to mobilize, by which time Pakistan had counter-mobilized and international pressure had built to de-escalate. Learning its lesson, the Indian military changed its doctrine from a defensive one to a more offensive posture by adopting the Cold Start Doctrine, with the objective of finding space for a limited conventional war under the nuclear umbrella. By bringing about structural and organizational changes in line with CSD, Indian army planned to mount an attack within a short time frame in case of grave provocation.

Pakistan’s response to CSD has been two-fold — the induction of tactical nuclear weapons in a bid to lower its nuclear redlines, while shoring up its conventional capabilities. Its view of CSD is informed by the golden rule: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. On the one hand, Pakistan asserts Cold Start is an unviable plan as India lacks the capability and initiative to implement it; on the other hand, Islamabad eyes with suspicion Indian military spending and military modernization, arguing that such actions threaten to fuel an arms race between the two neighbors.
Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

While Pakistan’s nuclear response to CSD has dominated the narrative, it is the conventional response that was devised first. In the last few years of General Musharraf’s presidency, especially between 2004 and 2007, India and Pakistan were engaged in backchannel negotiations and came tantalizingly close to finding a solution to the Kashmir issue. Then the 2007 Lawyers’ Movement forced Musharraf out of power and a new leadership took charge. With General Kayani as the new chief of army staff, the threat from India came back into focus, and so did the perceived risk of CSD. Given India’s military capability and its declared Cold Start Doctrine, Kayani believed that Pakistan could not afford to let its guard down as the country prepared according to “adversaries’ capabilities, not intentions.” He went on to give his assessment of the timeline by which India would be able to operationalize CSD — two years for partial implementation and five years for full — betraying the urgency he attached to a counter-response.

Between 2009 and 2013, the Pakistan Army conducted military exercises codenamed Azm-e-Nau to formalize and operationalize a conventional response to CSD. At its conclusion, Pakistan adopted a “new concept of war fighting” (NCWF) that aims to improve mobilization time of troops and enhance inter-services coordination, especially between the Army and the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). To this end, Pakistan Air Force’s aerial exercise High Mark was conducted alongside Azm-e-Nau III in 2010, which saw the participation of over 20,000 troops from all services in areas of southern Punjab, Sialkot, and Sindh along Pakistan’s eastern border with India. The 2010 exercises were the largest conducted by the Army since 1989. PAF’s exercise High Mark, conducted every five years, synchronizes the Air Force’s response with Army maneuvers, covering a vast area from Skardu in the north to the Arabian Sea in the south. As per military sources, with the implementation of the NCFW, the Pakistan Army will be able to mobilize even faster than India. This should worry India as CSD’s raison d’etre lies in the short reaction time it requires to launch an offensive. If Pakistan is indeed able to mount a counter-offensive even before India fires the first shot, literally and figuratively, it blunts the effectiveness of the Indian military doctrine.

The seriousness with which Pakistan is pursuing its conventional force build-up can be inferred from the military acquisitions made since it initiated the military exercises to validate NCWF. As per SIPRI data, there has been a sharp increase in military expenditures by Pakistan to acquire armaments, with 2010 being the peak year. In the seven year period between 2010 and 2016, there was a 58 percent increase in total expenditures compared to the years from 2003 to 2009. The categories that saw the sharpest increase were aircraft, armored vehicles, and missiles, all of which enhance conventional war fighting capability, as opposed to counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operations. While expenditures on armored vehicles went up 76 percent, purchases of aircraft and missiles saw a whopping increase of 114 percent and 127 percent, respectively.

The security community in India should re-assess the efficacy of CSD in the face of developments across the border. By taking into account both the conventional and nuclear response by Pakistan, India needs to ponder whether course-correction would suffice or whether its time to go back to the drawing-board.

Meenakshi Sood is a researcher with the Center for Land Warfare Studies (the Indian Army’s think tank) in New Delhi, India. She holds an MPhil and MA in International Relations from Jawaharlal Nehru University.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby rohitvats » 31 Mar 2017 15:19

^^^What an absolutely bull-sh1t article from someone who is supposed to be a researcher with CLAWS and has some fancy degrees from JNU. If people like her are sample of those who work in our think tank, don't expect any genuine or in-depth research on anything.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby deejay » 31 Mar 2017 15:35

rohitvats wrote:^^^What an absolutely bull-sh1t article from someone who is supposed to be a researcher with CLAWS and has some fancy degrees from JNU. If people like her are sample of those who work in our think tank, don't expect any genuine or in-depth research on anything.


She says our view on Paki counter to Cold Start is myopic. I guess her views are Hypermetropic. Rest is a free for all in the world of free speech.

And RV you would do a much better job in the thinking tank business. Honest.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby rohitvats » 31 Mar 2017 17:59

deejay wrote: She says our view on Paki counter to Cold Start is myopic. I guess her views are Hypermetropic. Rest is a free for all in the world of free speech.


I don't think she would even know what a division or a brigade means. But has written a whole article on PA counter to CSD. And the main reason this is true is because - hold your breath - they conducted some large scale exercise after decades! Never mind that IA has been conducting one complex and large scale exercise one after another for decade plus now.

And RV you would do a much better job in the thinking tank business. Honest.


My think tank business is limited to my blog. And BRF. Which reminds me I've to complete my paper on Pakistan Army Armored Corps which has got sidetracked because I've started working on two other papers.... :rotfl:

On a serious note, I discovered that PA might have raised couple of Independent Armored Brigades. Plus, few infantry brigades for protection duties under a new division earmarked for CPEC corridor.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Pratyush » 31 Mar 2017 18:42

rohitvats wrote:^^^What an absolutely bull-sh1t article from someone who is supposed to be a researcher with CLAWS and has some fancy degrees from JNU. If people like her are sample of those who work in our think tank, don't expect any genuine or in-depth research on anything.



One of my neighbours is an intern with CLAWS and I gave her the same feedback when I learnt that she was an intern that think tank.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ranjan.rao » 31 Mar 2017 19:00

rohitvats wrote:^^^What an absolutely bull-sh1t article from someone who is supposed to be a researcher with CLAWS and has some fancy degrees from JNU. If people like her are sample of those who work in our think tank, don't expect any genuine or in-depth research on anything.
Wait is this an analysis? Perhaps any noob here can do a better job by scanning the pages of BRF

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby arun » 05 Apr 2017 12:16

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Bheeshma wrote:What the hell is a mysterious blast??? I know about vacuum bulb and transformer blasts.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1325024/3-kil ... hore-blast

LIVE
3 killed, several injured in mysterious Lahore blast
ARIF MALIKUPDATED 3 MINUTES AGO
7 COMMENTS EMAIL PRINT

At least three people have been killed in an explosion on Lahore's Bedian Road on Wednesday, police sources said.

The Punjab government tweeted that the exact nature of the blast is being ascertained. Security sources claimed the explosion was a suicide blast.



Mysterious Blast in this case, per Al Jazeera, was neither vacuum bulb nor transformer blasts. It was rather an IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan and had targeted a vehicle belonging to the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Army of the Mohammadden Terrorism fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan that was transporting census takers under Uniformed Jihadi protection by using a motorcycle-borne Un-Uniformed Jihadi as the bomb carrier.:

Suicide bomb blast hits army vehicle in Lahore : Vehicle carrying census team helping officials carry out population survey targeted by suicide bomber on a motorcycle.

Meanwhile Reuters reports that the death toll at Lahore has climbed to 6 including 4 Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Army of the Mohammadden Terrorism fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Blast in Pakistani city of Lahore kills at least six

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 18 Apr 2017 17:11


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 28 Apr 2017 02:08

JF-17B first flight

Image

Image

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 28 Apr 2017 02:11


Kartik
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 28 Apr 2017 03:23

Image


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Khalsa » 08 May 2017 02:31

50 Afghan soldiers killed, 100 injured in retaliatory firing to Chaman cross-border attack: IG FC
https://www.dawn.com/news/1331637/50-afghan-soldiers-killed-100-injured-in-retaliatory-firing-to-chaman-cross-border-attack-ig-fc


Inspector General (IG) Frontier Corps (FC) Balochistan Maj Gen Nadeem Anjum on Sunday claimed that 50 Afghan security personnel were killed and another 100 injured as Pakistani forces retaliated to unprovoked firing by Afghan border forces on security personnel in Balochistan's Chaman area last week.

He added, however, that "we are not happy over their losses since they are our Muslim brothers".

Here lies a fundamental chance to understand the mentality of a nation that has slowly written out its culture and replaced it with religion.
Religion from here on becomes the fundamental looking glass of measuring your near and far surroundings.
You express yourself using religion
You understand or measure others using religion
You judge yourself and your actions using your limited knowledge of religion and because you mentioned god, therefore you must be RIGHT.

Here are few more of my takes on the implications of the General's sentence....

We are not happy over their losses since they are our muslim brothers.
i.e if they were Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Sikhs (or Shias ??) then it would be fine and we would not be so so sorry.

We are not happy over their losses since they are our muslim brothers.
i.e we don't care about a human being getting their gut torn out by bullets but because they are muslims we are sad.

We are not happy over their losses since they are our muslim brothers.
i.e we have no respect for a nation called Afghanistan but since they incidentally happen to be Muslim too, we now are sorry for their losses.





I know some of you might consider to be non-military nature but it is. Psychology is a part of military warfare and we must understand this enemy and their psyche.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Karthik S » 13 May 2017 00:55

Naval Analyses‏ @D__Mitch Naval Analyses Retweeted Ptisi Diastima
Pakistan will purchase four (4) "Made in Turkey" Ada class stealth corvettes.


Image

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Bheeshma » 13 May 2017 01:21

Pakis will not get it with any of the American weapons. They will most likely substitute it with chinese stuff.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 13 May 2017 04:57

Karthik S wrote:
Naval Analyses‏ @D__Mitch Naval Analyses Retweeted Ptisi Diastima
Pakistan will purchase four (4) "Made in Turkey" Ada class

Who provides the $$?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 05:29

Let us welcome the PN's earnest desire to provide the IN a suitable target for the Brahmos.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Khalsa » 14 May 2017 14:49

Karan M wrote:Let us welcome the PN's earnest desire to provide the IN a suitable target for the Brahmos.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


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