CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 03 Jan 2017 22:46

Rakesh wrote:I believe the objective is COIN and tackling Cross Border Terrorism. At least that is what I see in the appointment of Lt Gen Bipin Rawat. Like I said earlier, I do believe there will be more surgical strikes. Pakistan only understands the stick.

FWIW....Do listen to the interview...

Army Chief Rawat Does Not Rule Out More Surgical Strikes Against Pak
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/more-surgical-strikes-against-pak-possible-says-army-chief-rawat-to-ndtv-1644658

The surgical strikes of September 29 were very "well planned," said General Rawat, who, as the Vice-Chief of Army Staff, had personally monitored the operation.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jan 2017 02:50

Defence Ministry to brief PM on new 'chairman of chiefs' post for India's armed forces
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-4100006/Modi-s-military-matters-Defence-Ministry-brief-PM-new-chairman-chiefs-post-India-s-armed-forces.html

The meeting is expected to be held at the campus of the illustrious Indian Military Academy in Dehradoon which is the training institution of all permanent commission officers in the force. This is the second time that the meeting is being held outside the confines of the South Block on the advice of Modi who wanted to hold the annual conference at operational assets or military bases and not just Delhi.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jan 2017 22:25

Whoa...this is huge....

Malicious campaign, deep rooted conspiracy, men in the shadows: Lt General Praveen Bakshi
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/lt-general-praveen-bakshi-new-year-eve-eastern-army-commander-general-bipin-rawat-kolkata/1/855122.html

In his New Year eve address the eastern army commander said he was not resigning because he wanted to expose a conspiracy against him. The army commander began by wishing the new army chief all the very best and, three times in his address, termed the decision to appoint the new chief a 'political decision' which he abided by.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 22:27


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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ShauryaT » 14 Jan 2017 01:20


This is just sad. Whatever the truths of the matter are, they should not be laundered in public in this way. If GoI has some compromising information on the person, they why just the COAS, how is leading one of the 5 commands under this person any safe. This is where the seniority system is best broken. There is a feeling of entitlement created and all kinds of subterfuge and jealousies that are normal for ANY large organization come to the fore. Do not mean to question Lt. Gen Bakshi or the Army or GoI but this public washing of laundry cannot be good for the Army/Nation.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ShauryaT » 21 Jan 2017 03:20

It is quite peculiar that every government committee so far has not wavered from another "four" star position only. Starting with Kargil Review committee headed by K. Subramanyam, the empowered Group of Ministers, the Arun Singh committee and now the Shekatkar committee - none want to "impede" on the existing functions of the current chiefs and do not want to create a single point advisor. No one wants integrated commands. Not to my liking but something to take note of.

Not fully empowered chief of defence staff is a bad idea

The committee has reportedly recommended the new post should be a four-star appointment – equivalent to those of the service chiefs. This top four-star officer is envisaged as a coordinator, who will not impinge on the operation or administrative functions of the military chiefs. The creation of such a post should be accompanied by the integration of the service headquarters with the Ministry of Defence. However, the committee has apparently recommended against integrating the three services into joint commands. This is seen as an American model tailored for expeditionary role rather than homeland defence and hence unsuitable for the Indian context....

Any institutional solution along these lines is unlikely to deliver the necessary levels of integration. If the CDS does not outrank the service chiefs, then his ability to function as the single-point military adviser to the government will be undoubtedly circumscribed. At best, it will amount to an incremental improvement on the existing HQ IDS. Worse still, it will yet again create the illusion of progress and delay real reforms for years at end. The idea that such reforms should be imposed gradually or piecemeal is seriously mistaken. In most countries that have achieved institutional integration, the process has been driven politically from on high.

The CDS must be empowered fully. There should be no doubt about his being superior in the chain of command to the service chiefs. The appointment should be followed by the setting up of integrated theatre commands. For starters, the supply and logistics commands could be integrated. The claim that such theatre commands is only required for expeditionary forces is specious. It is an indispensable prerequisite for ensuring “jointness” in war fighting. Simultaneously, the service chiefs should prepare to relinquish operational control over the services and become what their titles suggest: chiefs of staff, primarily responsible for raising, equipping and training of the forces. The chain of operational command should run from the Defence Minister through the CDS to the integrated theatre commanders.

The advocates of compromise solutions miss the point that something is not always better than nothing. As the case of HQ IDS shows the half-life of such institutional short-cuts tends to be very long. More worryingly, it helps anaesthetise the system and masks need for real reform. Enhancing the combat capability and effectiveness requires full-blooded measures. It would be sad if the government perpetuates or aggravates the problem by using palliatives. It would sadder still, if the government were forced to consider real reform by another external crisis.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 21 Jan 2017 04:44

ShauryaT, The behavior of Gen J.N. Chaudhari in 1965 war have left a lot of bad taste in IAF and IN.
What did he do?
- Kept IAF out of Operation Riddle planning so that IAF had to do emergency catch-up.
- Called IAF just hours before disaster in Chaamb. IAF had to send Vampires which got shot down.
- Never told IN chief who was on inspection in East coast and had to hitchhike his way to Delhi when war broke out.

ACM P.C. Lal writes in his memoirs his misgivings despite the adequate coordination in 1971.

Having said that one has to take into account the need for secrecy when planning bold moves as Delhi was leaking like a sieve even now.
After the POKII tests there is a need for a CDS period.

The CIDS has shown half done is not done.
In the military no one listens to an equal. Hence the need for a CDS.

As Army has the largest resources and experience in commanding large manpower it will be from them.
Its just the way that is.

The first CDS has to be wise as Field Marshal Cariappa and bold as Gen Sunderji without the baggage of Gen J.N. Chaudhri


Each CDS should be by selection and not by seniority only. It can be one of the criteria.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 21 Jan 2017 07:11

For starters, a CDS who has command of the trip service commands, especially the SFC, is good enough reason to implement it.

Once created, I expect CDS to push for and implement stuck reforms such as SOD.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Prem » 21 Jan 2017 08:37

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... by-an-ant/

No more committees

In 2012, former Indian defence minister, Jaswant Singh, had reportedly told American journalist Tom Hundley, “There is no Cold Start doctrine… It was an off-the-cuff remark from a former chief of staff. I have been defence minister of the country; I should know.” India’s new army chief, by boldly shattering the wall of silence that surrounded the “Cold Start” concept for over a decade, and articulating his views regarding some other sensitive issues, may have triggered an era of “glasnost” in India’s defence discourse leading, hopefully, to a “national security renaissance” in the form of overdue reforms.The year 2015 saw China issue a National Military Strategy, Australia putting out a Defence White Paper and the US delivering a Military Strategy as well as a Maritime Strategy. Amidst all this glasnost, India’s national security establishment has maintained a deafening silence for 70 years. This inexplicable reticence is ascribed, by some, to India’s pacifist tradition that has now mutated into “strategic restraint”, and by others, to political disinterest and bureaucratic indifference.
A facile excuse offered for this caginess is that open public discussion may compromise national security. In actual fact, it is obsessive secrecy, coupled with the accretion of power, that leads to what is known as a “security dilemma”. In this phenomenon, actions by one state, intended to heighten its own security, lead other states to respond with similar measures, resulting in heightened tensions and possibility of conflict. The perilous India-China-Pakistan triangular rivalry is rooted in many security dilemmas that have arisen from the unstated arms race — conventional as well as nuclear — currently underway. As a status-quoist power sandwiched between two revisionist neighbours, it is in India’s vital interest to initiate a bilateral or triangular security dialogue that will encourage transparency, build confidence and cool temperatures, especially in the nuclear domain.
The Cold Start issue, apart from its own salience, has implications for the long-awaited reforms in India’s national security arena that call for reflection at this juncture. Th
e provenance of this concept goes back to the December 2001 terror assault on the Indian Parliament. In an uncharacteristic show of resolve and muscle, the government of the day ordered the mobilisation of its million-strong armed forces in the hope of coercing or compelling a recalcitrant Pakistan to behave. However, a three-week delay in positioning the Indian army’s “strike corps” at their launch pads not only revealed the ponderous nature of India’s mobilisation plans, but also permitted Pakistan to counter-mobilise, draw international attention to the South Asian “hotspot” and thwart an angry India.Subsequently, army planners came up with an innovative concept that would forward-locate key units and enable full mobilisation within 48-72 hours from a “cold start”. At the heart of this concept was restructuring the strike corps into smaller “integrated battle groups” (IBGs) — compact, highly mobile formations with their own armour,
artillery and aviation support — that could respond swiftly to Pakistani provocations without crossing the “nuclear threshold”.
Apart from the political resistance that it evokes, the Cold Start concept will make gut-wrenching demands on an army still steeped in World War II paradigms of attrition warfare, hamstrung by an antiquated higher defence organisation. The IBGs will employ “manoeuvre warfare”, whose essence is agility and flexibility in planning as well as execution. This will demand dynamic leadership at all levels, as well as radical changes and the shattering of many shibboleths within our conservative army. Perhaps it is in acknowledgment of these challenges that the army had, so far, remained coy about taking ownership of this concept. In this regard, the new army chief seems to have taken the bull by the horns and may be contemplating a fresh start for Cold Start.Cold Start represents a compellence strategy, meant to deter Pakistan from continued violations of Indian sovereignty by sponsoring cross-border terrorism. However, it has been deliberately misinterpreted by wily Pakistani generals, who now brandish tactical nuclear weapons, such as the Hatf IX missile — a dangerous stratagem, discredited and discarded by the nuclear powers during the Cold War.As the Indian army’s September 2016 cross-border raids proved, Cold Start remains a practical proposition that needs to be adopted wholeheartedly, even as we acquire the complete wherewithal for its implementation. While more Indian glasnost about Cold Start would bolster deterrence and dissuasion, the formation of IBGs would transform our large armoured and mechanised forces and keep them in an offensive frame of mind. However, the political establishment needs to clearly understand that Cold Start could lead to full-scale war and contains the possibility of “deterrence breakdown” — contingencies they must acknowledge and prepare for, in all seriousness.
This discussion takes place at a juncture when India’s security faces grave perils — both internally and externally. The discourse will, however, remain purely academic unless India’s national security structure — anachronistic in the context of Cold Start — undergoes a virtual renaissance in three crucial areas.
Firstly, decision-making in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) continues to be languid and capricious, mainly because it is manned exclusively by an itinerant, generalist bureaucracy, unqualified to manage the complex issues of defence and security. The answer lies in integrating the three armed forces HQs with the MoD, so that expertise is pooled and civil servants and uniformed personnel work harmoniously, side by side. Decision-making will, automatically, see a dramatic transformation.Secondly, the three armed forces badly need integration with each other, not just to enable implementation of modern warfare concepts like Cold Start, but to engender commonality in training, planning and equipment, as well as synergy or “jointness” in war-fighting. As experienced worldwide, the essential prerequisite for initiating jointness is the institution of a functionary — Chairman Chiefs of Staff or Chief of Defence Staff — who will, in consultation with the three service chiefs, provide military advice to the Raksha Mantri (RM) and PM. He will work alongside his co-equal, the defence secretary, who will constitute the source of advice on defence policy and finance to the RM and PM.The third area that needs to be addressed is India’s half-empty arsenal, which calls for a drastic restructuring of India’s military-industrial complex. The feckless bureaucrats and scientists, entrusted for 70 years with defence production and defence R&D, have reduced the nation to the status of a supplicant where military hardware is concerned. Neither grandiose-sounding schemes, nor tinkering with procurement procedures will help — major surgery is the need of the day.Interests of national security demand the urgent creation of an overarching “Ministry of Defence Technology & Industrial Production”, consisting of three departments (headed by a junior minister) charged with the development and production of land systems, maritime systems and aerospace systems. Each department should oversee many “clusters” composed of research laboratories (re-assigned from DRDO) coupled with appropriate production units (ordnance factories as well as defence PSUs). Each cluster should represent a “public-private partnership”, with FDI being sought wherever necessary.The time for committees and task forces is long past because the way ahead is quite clear. A resolute political leadership should be able to overcome resistance from entrenched bureaucracies — civilian and military — and push through the renaissance that will place India’s national security on a sound footing and justify our colossal defence expenditure.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Kakarat » 21 Jan 2017 11:40

India also needs a new expanded Integrated Defence HQ to bring all Service HQ and Ministry of Defence under one roof and i am sure that south block doesn't have enough space. The Defence Minister can have a ceremonial office in south block and move all functional ones to the New HQ

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Ankit Desai » 22 Jan 2017 08:51

Another confession by "Source". Only thing poking me is "may" word in headline.

India may soon get a tri-service chief

The country may soon get a new tri-service chief— a four-star general like the Army, IAF and Navy chiefs— to ensure synergy in training, logistics, planning and procurements among the forces.
In the longer run, the country will have theatre commands to integrate its air, land and sea assets under single operational commanders for a greater military punch from limited budgetary resources. These were among the major takeaways from the combined commanders' conference at Dehradun's Indian Military Academy, which had PM Modi and defence minister Manohar Parrikar brainstorming with the military brass.
There was no official word on the military deliberations in the backdrop of the Election Commission warning to the government that the conference should not be used as a platform to make any public speech or announcement that may "affect" the electoral process in poll-bound Uttarakhand.
But sources said the PM received a series of presentations on Saturday on issues ranging from operational preparedness and infrastructure development along the borders with China and Pakistan as well as the long pending reforms in the country's higher defence management.
Admiral Sunil Lanba, General Bipin Rawat and Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa attended the huddle. The proposed reforms range from creating the post of the fourth four-star general and theatre commands to re-energizing joint training and doctrines.

"Unified structures, first in the shape of tri-service organisations or agencies and then full-fledged commands to handle space, cyberspace and special operations, are also on the anvil," said a source. The NDA government acknowledges the crucial reform to have a chief of defence staff (CDS) or a permanent chairman of the chiefs of staff committee (CoSC), in addition to the three existing chiefs, cannot be delayed any longer. "The post of a permanent chairman of CoSC (which currently comprises the three service chiefs, with the senior most acting as the head) or CDS is likely to be created within this year," said the source.
"Issues about how he will relate to the government as well as the three chiefs, who will continue to operationally run their forces, have been fine-tuned. The Cabinet, however, will take the final decision," said the source.


-Ankit

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 22 Jan 2017 18:16

I recall Parrikar saying in initial days that CDS will be decided in 2-3 months. He is obviously wiser now on pace of the decision making in MoD. Why is it so difficult for government to take a decision? My guess is that the creation of this post will take powers away from others, and hence there are more obstacles to it rather than support.

2017 is the best chance CDS has in over a decade. If this government cannot take a decision I doubt any body else can.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 22 Jan 2017 21:35

Waiting for consensus over what is a political decision is like waiting for Godot. Both US and UK services resisted the creation of JCS or CDS.
The govt needs single point of advice. In four wars, services showed they are pulling in different directions. After POK II it's not tenable.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ShauryaT » 22 Jan 2017 23:58

ramana wrote:Waiting for consensus over what is a political decision is like waiting for Godot. Both US and UK services resisted the creation of JCS or CDS.
The govt needs single point of advice. In four wars, services showed they are pulling in different directions. After POK II it's not tenable.
Add Operation Pawan to that list. We lost 200+ soldiers (some say more) in that operation, at least I believe neither sufficient air power or naval gun power was used in that operation. The gunships were introduced after many days. The guns of INS Mysore could have been used. Apart from other issues of intelligence failures coordinated fire power could have changed the game.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 24 Jan 2017 03:17

Even though the article is about the viability of an Airbase in Car Nocbar it describes the FORTAN command which is a tri-service command

Link: http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... ability/0/

....

Free from any external military threat or conflict of any kind, the Andaman and Nicobar Islands had since independence remained a very small part of the Indian defence architecture. However, after the conflict with China in 1962, somewhat wary of Chinese intentions, the Government of India tasked the Indian Navy with the responsibility of the defence of the Island. Pursuant to this aim, in the early 1960s, the Government of India sanctioned the establishment of a naval base.

While the Tri-Service Andaman and Nicobar Command is currently weighted heavily in favour of Naval forces and rightly so as, there is certainly a need to beef up both the Indian Army and the IAF components, especially, the offensive capability of the latter. This has acquired a degree of urgency in view of the increasing activities by China not only in the South China Sea but also in the Indian Ocean Region. Reports in the past have suggested that the PLA Navy has been operating close to the ..



Read more at:
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... ability/0/




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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 24 Jan 2017 03:24

The crux of the matter is the Decmeber 2004 tsunami swamped the Car Nicobar airfield.
The argument is should the IAF deploy combat aircraft to Car Nicobar?
The airfield has been upgraded. I don't know how far Port Blair field Utkorsh is from Car Nicobar?
If feasible its should be the home field for the combat aircraft and let the Car Nicobar filed be the forward field with POL and ammo stores..
Looking at the forces being deployed 15 IN naval ships and IA and IAF, Coastguard looks like its a major command and the military thinks its an important area to deploy the services.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 24 Jan 2017 04:06

Ok Car Nicobar is 5 feet above sea level.
Its 260 km form Post Blair which is at 52 feet above sea level.
May be best option is to locate the squadron at Port Blair and use Car Nicobar as a staging airfield.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 23:34

The Edge of The Sword - By Major Gaurav Arya (Retd)
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/the- ... the-sword/

What we can do immediately is appoint a Chief of Defence Staff, a five star ranking general officer to whom all the three Chiefs (Army, Navy and Air Force) will report. Let the CDS advise the Prime Minister on all matters military. There will be dissonance within the services regarding this, and that’s all right. We win wars when the Army, Navy and Air Force fight together. The office of the CDS must have teeth. It cannot be a ceremonial appointment.

Another improvement could also be to actually have defence people in the Defence Ministry. If you have a senior IAS officer who joins as Defence Secretary, who till a week back was Secretary Tourism, and before that Secretary Animal Husbandry, India has a serious problem on its hands. Speak to army officers and they will tell you horror stories as to how the redoubtable babu has the power, intent and capability to stop files and delay critical procurement. The Defence Ministry is virtually run by faceless bureaucrats and their whims.


A portion of a post I made in the Indian Army New & Discussion Thread...back in Oct 2016...

Rakesh wrote:You can take an Agriculture Secretary and appoint him as the Defence Secretary tomorrow. So while yesterday he was poring over details in the Agriculture Ministry on the cost effectiveness of genetically modified wheat...today he is poring over details on Arjun Mk.2 production. To him, both are viewed in the same prism of thought. For the life of him, he does not know the difference because he has not been trained to do so. He only sees acquisitions through the rules and regulations of Babudom.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 23:44

The Time For Enforcing Jointness Is Now
http://bharatshakti.in/the-time-for-enf ... ss-is-now/

By Lt General A K Singh, PVSM, AVSM, SM, VSM (Retd) - ajaycambell@hotmail.com

The fact that our forces lack jointness is a handicap that requires a great deal of dynamism in approach to overcome the resistance that could well be faced. The General, in his article, establishes the necessity of jointness, the ultimate creation of an appointment of CDS, and a step by step transition to joint theatre commands. The endeavour will require political will and perhaps even legislation to overcome the hurdles that would require to be negotiated.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2017 02:56

Akshay Kapoor Is Field Marshal Alan Brooke studied in Indian Army?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Broo ... Alanbrooke

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4261 ... r-ego.html



'ON no account must the contents of this book be published," wrote Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke on the opening page of his wartime diary, and it is easy to understand why. As the "Master of Strategy", the man Churchill had implored to become Britain's senior soldier, Alanbrooke was the repository of all the most important wartime secrets. Even when they were published in 1957 the diaries were heavily censored both on grounds of national security and for fear of antagonising powerful figures such as the then American President Dwight Eisenhower and the past and serving prime ministers Winston Churchill, Anthony Eden and Harold Macmillan.


Later this month they are to be published unexpurgated for the first time (extracts appear in today's Review) and although we have long known that Alanbrooke did not always see eye to eye with Churchill, it is only now clear that for much of the war they could hardly stand one another.


Alanbrooke's influence on global strategy cannot be overestimated. It was he, more even than Churchill, Roosevelt or Stalin, who set out the stages by which Nazi Germany was going to be defeated in the West. It was he who laid down the crucial sequence of North Africa, Italy and Normandy, as the path to Berlin. Once thought of as a typically tough, humourless, Ulster-born "brass hat", it is now clear that Alanbrooke was a passionate man given to bouts of depression and elation, and also of fury against many of those with whom he had to work, especially Generals Marshall, Eisenhower, Patton and much of the British political establishment.


His cautious, painstaking approach often clashed with that of Churchill. Yet Churchill never once overruled his Chiefs of Staff Committee, which Alanbrooke headed, however much he might have disagreed with them. The shadow of the Great War disaster at Gallipoli still hung over him, and he knew better than to trust his own impulsive genius more than Alanbrooke's logical arguments. In his turn, Alanbrooke considered it his duty to stop Churchill getting Britain into another Gallipoli, as when he quashed Churchill's plans for attacking in the Balkans in 1943.


Although the minutes of the Chiefs of Staff Committee in the Public Records Office give the bare, factual outlines of what was discussed and agreed in the meetings, these new diaries flesh out the story and record the often volcanic rows which developed between the key players. Far from being impassive, olympian figures, Churchill and the High Command were often despairing of what to do next, and at bitter loggerheads over the way the war should be fought.


Where Churchill was romantic, boisterous, inspirational and occasionally, so Alanbrooke suspected, drunk, the Chief of the Imperial General Staff was cautious, pessimistic, sober and adamant. Both men were combative, wilful, driven; the tension between them eventually worked in Britain's favour, ensuring that grand strategy combined a mixture of Churchill's genius and Alanbrooke's professionalism. It was a pained, often exasperated relationship that none the less helped win the war, even if it collapsed soon afterwards.

"Brookie wants to have it both ways," commented Clementine Churchill when his biography was published in 1957, after he had written a fulsome (if somewhat hypocritical) dedication in the copy he sent Churchill. As Montgomery told the book's author, the historian Sir Arthur Bryant, Churchill was "very angry indeed" at this, the first crack in the edifice of his wartime reputation. He would have been apoplectic if he had read what Alanbrooke and Bryant had excised from the diaries, and which we publish today.

Yet Alanbrooke was often generous to Churchill in the diaries, and he frequently pointed out that they were written at times of tremendous stress, often late at night, and as a way of letting off steam and thus preventing his irritation with his colleagues becoming apparent to them. They therefore probably averted as many rows as they documented.

In the major strategic debates of the war - especially in delaying the Second Front until June 1944 when the Allies were properly ready, Alanbrooke was right; it was fortunate that among the many Yes men surrounding Churchill, there was one man who could say "No".

These diaries were a psychological safety-valve for a soldier who laboured under as great a weight of political and military pressure as any in history. As he snapped yet another pencil in half, saying "Prime Minister, I flatly disagree," Alanbrooke was doing a duty as valuable as any Allied general on active service. Part of Churchill's greatness lay in the fact that he appointed Alanbrooke, and, albeit often grudgingly, always accepted his advice.



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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby SaiK » 27 Jan 2017 01:25

Preparing For Battles Of The Future: Chief Of Defence Staff Can’t Just Be A Ceremonial Position
Maj Gen Rajiv Narayanan - Jan 26, 2017, 5:10 pm

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/prepari ... l-position

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Kakkaji » 27 Jan 2017 04:58

Superseded Generals Bakshi and Hariz have been awarded AVSM on this Republic Day.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 784168.cms

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ShauryaT » 01 Feb 2017 21:03

I do not know where to put higher defense management issues. Hence posting here.

Defence Budget Up Over 6% At Rs. 2.74 Lakh Crore In 2017-18
Overall defence budget saw a 6.2 per cent increase for the next fiscal year at Rs. 2.74 lakh crore from the current Rs. 2.58 lakh crore, with the capital outlay to cover the modernisation programmes getting a hike of 10.05 per cent.

The defence outlay amounted to 12.77 per cent of the total budget.

The capital outlay for the three defence services for the purchase of new equipment, weapons, aircraft, warships and other military vehicles stood at Rs. 86,488 crore for 2016-17 as compared to Rs. 78,586 crore for this fiscal year.

Budget documents show that revised capital budget for this fiscal year is Rs. 71,700 crores, but it is not clear whether the Defence Ministry was unable to spend the remaining amount (Rs. 6,886 crore) or whether any savings were done.

The money allocated for defence pensions was Rs. 85,737 crore as compared to revised estimate of Rs. 85,624 crore this fiscal year.

"Rs. 2,74,114 crore is allocated for defence expenditure, excluding pension. This includes Rs. 86,000 crores for defence capital," Finance Minister Arun Jaitley said while presenting the Union Budget 2017-18 in Parliament on Wednesday.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 11 Feb 2017 04:06

one more rumour ... :x

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 79902.html

Seeking to bring in major reforms in the country's defence forces, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has asked the Ministry of Defence to initiate steps towards creating theatre commands for the military.

Under a theatre commands, all the troops and resources of the three forces - Army, Navy and Air Force - would be combined and put under the command of one officer, who would be from either of the three serivces and who would determine their use.

At the combined commanders conference headed by the prime minister, the Integrated Defence Staff under the Defence Ministry was asked to prepare a roadmap for theatre commands and new initiatives would be taken by this year-end, senior Defence Ministry sources told India Today.

APPOINTMENT OF NEW FOUR STAR GEN ALSO BEING CONSIDERED

The three services had made a detailed presentation to the prime minister at the conference, which was held recently. As part of defence reforms, the government is also appointing a new four star general to looking after the issues related to three services.
All these structures of proposed command would be provided in the roadmap by the military officers under the guidance of political leadership the sources stated.

At the conference, the IAF had raised questions over the command structure and equipment integration under the theatre commands but everybody recognised the need for creating new military structures.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby negi » 11 Feb 2017 09:35

In my experience with organization re-org and such shit all 'unification' exercises only increase beurocracy and layers ; superficial integration by just nominating a CDS will not achieve anything except making chai-biskoot for def secretay and netas easy as now they will take status from 1 person.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 11 Feb 2017 21:12

CDS, in it's PCCOS guise is - imho - the minimum viable product form of CDS. This CDS will not be the single point of all defence advise. However, it is the 4-star head of all tri-service staff such as IDS and also tri service commands.

I feel for now this is the way ahead for CDS. With Navy acquiring second strike capability, we have to ensure that SFC is fully controlled by military through CDS and not via NSA's office as it is the case at the moment.

negi wrote:In my experience with organization re-org and such shit all 'unification' exercises only increase beurocracy and layers ; superficial integration by just nominating a CDS will not achieve anything except making chai-biskoot for def secretay and netas easy as now they will take status from 1 person.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 16 Feb 2017 01:32

Unnamed sources continue feed:

http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ ... kWVZP.html



Updated: Feb 15, 2017 11:45 IST
By Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times, New Delhi

The Modi government is all set to initiate independent India’s greatest military reforms with the creation of Integrated Theatre Commands based on geographical areas of operation or functionality and a single-point military advisor designated as Chief of Defence Staff (CDS). The post of CDS, who will be responsible for acquisition and logistics, was recommended by the Kargil Review Committee headed by K Subrahmanyam after the war of 1999.

South Block sources told Hindustan Times that a discussion on the subject has already taken place between Prime Minister Modi and Defence minister Manohar Parrikar. Another meeting is expected after the ongoing round of Assembly elections to fine-tune the structured proposal.

In the meantime, the Ministry of Defence is preparing a note on the envisaged structure of the integrated commands which are broadly based on the US military command structure, and proposed division of assets. Once cleared by Parrikar, the comprehensive note will be put up to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for final approval and implementation.

The US has seven geographical and two functional commands, China has seven military area commands with Lanzhou and Chengdu MACs looking after the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with India. The Indian military structure is largely derived from the colonial past with the Army and Air Force having seven commands each and Navy three commands apart from the Andamans and Nicobar Command that was created last decade.

Although the theatre command concept is still work in progress, there are strong indications that each command with dedicated military resources will have a geographical area of responsibility with the commander reporting to the defence minister and ultimately the prime minister.

For instance, Western Command facing Pakistan will stretch from Karakoram pass in Jammu and Kashmir to Kanyakumari with complements of Army, Air Force and Navy meshed together and military objectives defined. On the anvil is a Northern Command that will take care of the military duties on LAC with Nepal and Bhutan. Similarly, Eastern Command will look after the border with Bangladesh and Myanmar. The Strategic Command and Transport Command could be based on functionality with pooled resources.

South Block sources said the defence ministry is toying with the idea of creating an Indian Ocean Command, responsible for the western, eastern and southern seaboards as well protecting Indian influence from Gulf of Aden to Malacca Straits at the mouth of the South China Sea.

As each theatre command headed by a four-star general or admiral will have dedicated rather than shared assets, India would have to go in for serious materiel purchases through the Make in India route to equip the geographical formations. “Even though there is a green signal for the proposal, the implementation will take some years before it starts functioning on ground,” said a senior official.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 19 Feb 2017 07:16

I had suggested South Indian Ocean Command based at Cochin in mid 90s to control all Indian Ocean appurtenant areas.
Western Naval Command for Arabian Sea and Persian Gulf.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 19 Feb 2017 14:33

Isn't IOR already covered off by Western and Eastern fleets respectively. And why a tri-service command as Nausena alone has assets to deploy their?

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rahul M » 19 Feb 2017 14:41

re-plugging my own thoughts on the issue.

http://brfrahulm.blogspot.in/2013/10/un ... s-v01.html

I would like to see all of India's potential theater of operations divided into 'combined commands' with a mix & match of unified forces, as required.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 19 Feb 2017 21:32

Rahul: nice article! Were'nt you the one who wrote that article about theatre commands for the then BR Monitor? If so, do you still have it? I loved that piece.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rahul M » 19 Feb 2017 21:45

thx Admiral.

must be someone else, the only one I wrote for BRM/SRR was the one on the soviet afg campaign.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 24 Feb 2017 06:20

The Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) must be Empowered
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... empowered/

By Air Marshal RS Bedi (Retd) who served as the Director General Defence Planning Staff.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2017 09:24

“Soon See The Three Service Chiefs Watch Movies Together,” Army Chief Gen Bipin Rawat
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250687

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 02 Mar 2017 02:50

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... s?from=mdr

.....There is, however, still no progress in establishing the desperately-needed Special Operations Command to bring together the disparate Special Forces of the Army, Navy, IAF, Cabinet Secretariat and home ministry under a unified command and control structure for larger strategic objectives. With no service as yet ready to part with its Special Forces, the defence ministry is contemplating a tri-service Special Operations Division as the first step towards having a full-fledged command, as earlier reported by TOI.


:x

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 02 Mar 2017 23:27

Rahul M wrote:thx Admiral.

must be someone else, the only one I wrote for BRM/SRR was the one on the soviet afg campaign.

I found the article. The author emailed me :)

I will post it later today or get him only to post it.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Rakesh » 03 Mar 2017 08:18

This is the article I was referring to. An excellent piece by Rajiv Lather! Granted it was written in late 1999 and a lot has changed since then, but the model can be fine tuned. Please read when you have a moment and do provide your comments.

https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/tod ... ation.html

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby dinesha » 25 Mar 2017 18:56

Arun Jaitley clears major military reforms proposal
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... M8pGP.html
Union finance minister Arun Jaitley, who got the additional charge of the defence ministry a week ago, has given the green light to widespread military reforms.

The reforms are based on a report by the Lt General (retired) DB Shekatkar committee, which made recommendations on enhancing the combat potential of India’s three armed forces, rationalising the defence budget, and improving the teeth-to-tail ratio.

The committee set up by then defence minister Manohar Parrikar in 2015 submitted its report on December 21 last year.

Sources at the defence ministry headquarters in South Block said Jaitley reviewed on March 18 a presentation on a new strategic partner policy, plans to create a chief of defence staff (CDS) post, and restructuring of higher defence structures along with the Shekatkar committee report.

Two days later, he approved about 90 key recommendations of the Shekatkar committee.

“The Shekatkar committee had apparently exceeded its brief with some 200 recommendations. The defence ministry whittled it down to 120, of which some 90 were approved by Jaitley. The ministry expects all the proposals to be implemented in the next two years,” a senior official said.


Defence secretary G Mohan Kumar has written to the three services headquarters to implement the proposals.

The ball park figure of Rs 25,000 crore is expected to be saved if the committee’s proposals for rebalancing military expenditure are implemented.

The panel wants the military to move out of non-core areas such as the National Cadet Corps (NCC), remove duplicity among the three services, and make institutions such as the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and ordnance factory boards more accountable through project audits and by shelving outdated concepts.

“For instance, an entire Signals unit was tasked to listen to radio broadcasts from the 1962 war. This unit will be disbanded with the troopers redeployed into other tasks. The recommendations are not aimed at cutting jobs but making the military lean and thin,” the official said.

The Narendra Modi government is expected to clear soon the creation of a CDS post and the strategic partner policy, which will boost the “Make in India” campaign in the defence sector.

A major recommendation is that the defence budget should be 2.5% to 3% of the GDP. The committee called for redefining the revenue and capital heads in the budget.


In broad terms, revenue means money required to maintain the military, while capital is spent on acquisition and modernisation.

The army, with 1.3 million personnel, could get the major chunk of the budget — above navy that has around 55,000 men and women, and the air force, which employs around 150,000.

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby Aditya G » 22 Jun 2017 03:11

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... e-4710860/

....

The IAF chief also stated his objections to the proposal to establish Integrated Theatre Commands of the Army, Navy and the IAF: “You could argue that this concept is worth attempting if we had older types of air assets whose reach was limited, for which they would have to be placed in specific locations and concentrate their efforts to achieve the military objectives in a sector.
“But with our modern acquisitions, it is possible now to exploit the agility and reach of our platforms to near simultaneously affect the battles on the two fronts, and meet the objects of war. Air power needs space for manoeuvre to exploit its varied characteristics of surprise, shock and speed. If restricted to one sector, the potential of this arm of the military will not be optimally exploited and thus, the Air Force desires to have independence for execution so that the purpose of conflict is best served.”

The Air Chief, however, came out in support of a Permanent Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee, who “would thus be the fourth four-star officer who would also be responsible for the various Tri-Service Commands. The Service Chiefs however, will continue to exercise operational control and training over their respective Services and have direct access to RM [Raksha Mantri, or Defence Minister].”

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Re: CDS, Tri-Services Issues & Integration Debate

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2017 04:42

The PM has to impose the CDS on the military. No other way.
IAF has the max reluctance.


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