India Border Watch: Security and Operations

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
member_28911
BRFite
Posts: 537
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28911 » 31 Dec 2014 18:11

@Gaurav Sawant:
Pak Rangers report the death of 4 of their personnel. Atleast 5 injured, several observation posts, bunkers destroyed in BSF punitive strike

:twisted:

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1658
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vasu raya » 01 Jan 2015 09:31

BSF should have Pak's local commanding officers wave the white flag next time and not them soldiers, take a video of the same.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3399
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 01 Jan 2015 18:17

No first use :wink:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 717474.cms

Asked whether there were instructions from the Centre to give befitting reply to Pakistan, the IG said, "There were already clear instructions in the past as also this time and will continue in future too."

"But we never open fire on Pakistan first. You have seen that we have never fired first on the Pakistan on IB. If we are being fired upon, we will not sit silent...we will retaliate," the IG said.

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3888
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby deejay » 01 Jan 2015 18:53

^^^No first use only on IB as per above.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9966
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 02 Jan 2015 04:30

^^ One of the news reports had mentioned about a terrorist pad also being targetted and destroyed but 20-25 turds within the launch pad amnaged to escape before the pounding.

Seems lot of cleaning up is on at the border

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18657
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karan M » 02 Jan 2015 05:51

Until and unless our SF guys routinely go across and do what needs to be done, all the above is of little use. Upto 25 km across the border should be open game for our SF guys. They can and will mix in and cause a heck of a lot of pain to all these terrorists. Its just political will which is lacking. The Pak Army ba$tards keep coming across and infiltrating on our side. Why can't we hit back? The Pakistan National Congress is no longer in power in India either. High time the rules of the game were changed.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9966
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 02 Jan 2015 06:11

^^ 400% no doubt that we will hear these kind of SF stories in a few years time since i believe political will wont be a problem with Shri Doval at the helm

member_28539
BRFite
Posts: 136
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28539 » 02 Jan 2015 15:49

Pak Rangers report the death of 4 of their personnel. Atleast 5 injured, several observation posts, bunkers destroyed in BSF punitive strike

Indeed a happy new year!! :wink:

sum wrote:^^ 400% no doubt that we will hear these kind of SF stories in a few years time since i believe political will wont be a problem with Shri Doval at the helm

+n to the that Sir! We need to cut some more flesh out of these buggers! Jai Hind!

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2505
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshhan » 02 Jan 2015 16:02

Karan M wrote:Until and unless our SF guys routinely go across and do what needs to be done, all the above is of little use. Upto 25 km across the border should be open game for our SF guys. They can and will mix in and cause a heck of a lot of pain to all these terrorists. Its just political will which is lacking. The Pak Army ba$tards keep coming across and infiltrating on our side. Why can't we hit back? The Pakistan National Congress is no longer in power in India either. High time the rules of the game were changed.


The ultimate objective should be to set Rawalpindi ablaze(sabotage,Assasinations etc). This includes neutralizing Senior Pakistani Army/Intelligence officials along with their loved ones.

member_27581
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_27581 » 02 Jan 2015 17:04

OT Note:

In between J&K elections and the peshawar attack, there were statements by Mr Parrikar speaking something like below
1. India will respond in 6 months
2. We have to turn the barrel of guns to the other side

Who knows what Modi/Parrikar/Doval have on cards for Mian Saheb

pushkar.bhat
BRFite
Posts: 276
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pushkar.bhat » 02 Jan 2015 17:11

Karan M wrote:Until and unless our SF guys routinely go across and do what needs to be done, all the above is of little use. Upto 25 km across the border should be open game for our SF guys. They can and will mix in and cause a heck of a lot of pain to all these terrorists. Its just political will which is lacking. The Pak Army ba$tards keep coming across and infiltrating on our side. Why can't we hit back? The Pakistan National Congress is no longer in power in India either. High time the rules of the game were changed.

25 KM will get you to lahore or sialkot.. R u serious..

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3888
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby deejay » 02 Jan 2015 17:26

^^^ I think he is and why not?

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5095
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby jamwal » 02 Jan 2015 18:40

Going by unreliable chaiwaallah gossip, regulat jhapads are indeed paid to our pissfool neighbours. Those were quite common before the artillery ceasefire on borders was declared

shravanp
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2372
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shravanp » 02 Jan 2015 19:24

BSF's 4x retaliation not only displays firm resolve, but it's also a psychological advantage for our jawans.

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2505
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshhan » 02 Jan 2015 21:26

pushkar.bhat wrote:
Karan M wrote:Until and unless our SF guys routinely go across and do what needs to be done, all the above is of little use. Upto 25 km across the border should be open game for our SF guys. They can and will mix in and cause a heck of a lot of pain to all these terrorists. Its just political will which is lacking. The Pak Army ba$tards keep coming across and infiltrating on our side. Why can't we hit back? The Pakistan National Congress is no longer in power in India either. High time the rules of the game were changed.

25 KM will get you to lahore or sialkot.. R u serious..


Pushkar ji, You bet he is and why not.


ritesh
BRFite
Posts: 244
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 17:48
Location: Mumbai

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ritesh » 02 Jan 2015 21:38

darshhan wrote:Pushkar ji, You bet he is and why not.

But Why :shock:
Why threaten lives of our valiant soldiers? Dont we know, how those barbaric bakis treat PoWs, have we forgotten Saurabh Kalia & other fallen heroes? :cry:

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishnan » 02 Jan 2015 21:41

A ship is safe in harbour, but that’s not what ships are for.

ritesh
BRFite
Posts: 244
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 17:48
Location: Mumbai

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ritesh » 02 Jan 2015 21:48

Are we equip for surgical strikes????
Can we do Bin Laden type Ops???
Why should we risk our Sf guys in risky situations?

Can't this wait till a full fledged war is declared?

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3888
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby deejay » 02 Jan 2015 21:50

ritesh wrote:
darshhan wrote:Pushkar ji, You bet he is and why not.

But Why :shock:
Why threaten lives of our valiant soldiers? Dont we know, how those barbaric bakis treat PoWs, have we forgotten Saurabh Kalia & other fallen heroes? :cry:


A valiant soldier at home will use his valour on (Simulators)? Or are we first going to think of failure and not of success?

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5556
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishvak » 02 Jan 2015 22:30

pushkar.bhat wrote:
Karan M wrote:Until and unless our SF guys routinely go across and do what needs to be done, all the above is of little use. Upto 25 km across the border should be open game for our SF guys. They can and will mix in and cause a heck of a lot of pain to all these terrorists. Its just political will which is lacking. The Pak Army ba$tards keep coming across and infiltrating on our side. Why can't we hit back? The Pakistan National Congress is no longer in power in India either. High time the rules of the game were changed.

25 KM will get you to lahore or sialkot.. R u serious..

I am not sure if jihadis across the border have to care about 25 km range or city limits.

The pakis have declared policy situation of not able to control terrorists at border (but not near Afghan border).

In such a scenario, we should have many many options open - from multiple UAV raids across the border to outright attack on PA headquarters to free our jawans to targeted artillery shelling etc etc. We can not waste time bothering about what local American/Paki embassy tells about caring for jihadis.

Sonugn
BRFite
Posts: 294
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 12:03
Location: DeceptyKon Workshop

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sonugn » 03 Jan 2015 20:34


Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7914
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Jan 2015 11:13

ritesh wrote:Are we equip for surgical strikes????
Can we do Bin Laden type Ops???
Why should we risk our Sf guys in risky situations?

Can't this wait till a full fledged war is declared?


They certainly can because Pakistan for the most part is really a narrow country. It is just the political will to do so. Maybe send teams of snipers in to kill off Pak military leadership.
Nothing would please me more than to kill Pak military by the bushels.

uddu
BRFite
Posts: 1847
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby uddu » 04 Jan 2015 14:18



What's the response? Two Indian Army Jawans got killed. Were there a response from the IA in which around 200 or 300 Terroristanis got killed?
The Dhanush guns will give great capability in retaliating and eliminating all Pakis upto 50 kms from border. Until then we still can unleash the Pinaka.

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4000
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby partha » 04 Jan 2015 14:26


Highly placed sources have informed me exclusively that AK-47 firing in the air during a wedding celebration in a border village on the Pakistani side of LoC caused panic on the Indian side of LoC leading to indiscriminate firing which resulted in these deaths. The failure in recovering Pakistan made bullets has cast doubts over Indian army's claim that Pakistan's firing killed 2 army jawans.

See how I found out exactly what happened using my sources (Look ma, my connections) without any display of jingosim and provided a unique take on the event. Am I not awesome?

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5556
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishvak » 04 Jan 2015 16:00

Partha ji, your comments may sound sarcastic but proof can be obtained regularly for decades when paki army regularly fires (like it has for decades) to push terrorists or for just to be murderous.There is no clear demand of a retaliation against a clearly murderous firing by paki jihadi state actors aka fauj. There is no clarity and no enthusiasm, except a few reports here and there.

More importantly, there seems to be statue quo wrt we should do to rabid dogs across the border that is doing this for decades. The situation - to keep on defending the borders as usual while pakis fire at will and line up terrorists to infiltrate - all this seem to be part of LoC situation only. A country has to declare a neighbor 'kufr' to attack it, then it is like that only, what to do only.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20155
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2015 20:47

Iteresting report.The PLAN's ability field hundreds of tactical BMs is the most dangerous threat to the IA and IAF's forward airtsips/bases.It is imperative that we increase the number of BMs as well as any PLA offensive will begin with a massive missile /cyberwarfare strike.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 0103000132
India has 'partial advantages' over China's Chengdu Military Region

CNA 2015-01-03 17:30 (GMT+8)

PLA's soldiers patrol the Qinghai-Tibet highway in Golmud, Qinghai province, Nov. 2008. (File photo/CNS)

India enjoys "partial advantages" over the Chengdu Military Region of China, in the event that a conflict were to break out in the two nations' border areas, Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television reported Friday.

The People's Liberation Army's Chengdu Military Region has recently staged a series of military drills, with India as its proposed target.

According to post-drill reviews conducted by officers in the Chengdu Military Region, which is tasked with guarding China against Vietnam and India, the China-India border area, located mainly in the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, has two geographic characteristics–high altitude and cold weather–both of which are equally unfavorable to India and China.

The Qinghai-Tibet Plateau has an average altitude of 4,500 meters above sea-level.

However, India enjoys "partial advantages" in battle preparedness, especially in the transportation and supply of military personnel and materials in high-altitude mountainous areas, the report said.

Besides, India has largely enhanced its skills in electronic warfare in the surveillance, interference and paralysis of its enemy as a result of military cooperation with the United States, Russia and Israel.

But, the PLA said, its greatest advantage against India is its deployment of the high-accuracy mid-range Dongfeng-16 missiles in Yunnan and Guizhou provinces.

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishnan » 04 Jan 2015 22:18

Directly naming us , shows where we stand too. Shows they are now scared. Its a PSYOP aimed at readers

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1815
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby srin » 05 Jan 2015 09:06

Philip wrote:Iteresting report.The PLAN's ability field hundreds of tactical BMs is the most dangerous threat to the IA and IAF's forward airtsips/bases.It is imperative that we increase the number of BMs as well as any PLA offensive will begin with a massive missile /cyberwarfare strike.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 0103000132


The correct answer to the BMs is SAMs and radars. Operationalize the ABMs, MRSAMs and deploy them in hundreds. Also, caves and tunnels inside the mountains to serve as hangars and munitions dump.

Then, think about the counter offensive capabilities - and that may not be BMs alone. It may be to have thousands of Nirbhays, hundreds of tanks (where feasible).

member_28840
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28840 » 05 Jan 2015 12:26

^^ It wont come to a full scale war with tactical battlefield missiles. Both countries have too much to lose.

Besides, they don't have enough troops to quell their internal unrest , guard the border with Vietnam, guard the coastal regions, and also fight and win a conventional war against India. Their troop concentrations along the Indian Border are relatively low.

China is like a bully who pretends to be tough and macho to divert attention from real issues.

All this claiming land and border incursions is just posturing. I really think they are more scared of us than we are of them. In the end they want us to negotiate the mcmahon line, kick out the dalai lama and probably a few other goodies in their favor. They will continue posturing with their incursions, funding militants in north east, funding the world's favorite jihadist state etc and eventually they will hope to wear us out and negotiate on terms favorable to them.

and P.S. if it does come to a fight, it will be very limited in scale and scope. I just hope that if / when it happens that there is not another dynasty member manning the helm.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3610
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Kashi » 05 Jan 2015 16:16

Another BSF jawaan martyred today. I hope we ARE responding in kind.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9225
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Hari Seldon » 05 Jan 2015 20:32

^should light up the entire IB. In particular take out paki cell towers along the punjab border... coz these are major narco smuggling aids.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18657
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karan M » 05 Jan 2015 21:43

pushkar.bhat wrote:
Karan M wrote:Until and unless our SF guys routinely go across and do what needs to be done, all the above is of little use. Upto 25 km across the border should be open game for our SF guys. They can and will mix in and cause a heck of a lot of pain to all these terrorists. Its just political will which is lacking. The Pak Army ba$tards keep coming across and infiltrating on our side. Why can't we hit back? The Pakistan National Congress is no longer in power in India either. High time the rules of the game were changed.

25 KM will get you to lahore or sialkot.. R u serious..


yes
if US SF can operate w/in Pak, we can as well.. we have huge # of advantages to whit.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1625
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 05 Jan 2015 23:31

Bhat sahab, Karan did not mean we go in 25 km at every pony of the border including where Pak cities are just a few km from IB. I think he meant that an aggressive intent has to be fostered and tasks inside enemy territory should be allowed.

Now we will do that only to achieve some objectives. These will largely be tactical and restricted to inflicting casualties on BAT and their constituents - pak regulars and irregulars. The objective is two fold

- create fear and uncertainty in terrorists minds (army and jihadis). They should not be able to sleep peacefully at night always looking over their shoulders

- relieve pressure from their attacks on our soil. We have to move the battle away from or soil. That is imperative. This will include hitting their staging areas etc.

If political will is there target designation for the odd stand off attack by say glide bombs can be done.

Overall ops cannot be very high tempo and will be few. Pls note we have done the odd op before but it was generally quite close to borders to give tactical Jhapads yo opposing units who were misbehaving. This was almost stopped in the last regime.

We also need to ensure no media coverage and total silence. That will create more fear and Pakis will not be able to accept the casualties are happening to their public and so will keep quiet. This will dampen morale of their forces and reduce their threat to us.

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby abhishek_sharma » 05 Jan 2015 23:34

Yawn reports that 4 Paki civilians killed.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1625
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 06 Jan 2015 00:37

^^ I suggest you read Gen Hasnain's article where he gives example of one his Rajput paltans decimating the enemy across the border. In his words

'In my long years handling the LC from unit to a Corps Commander I always found the threats from BATs as the most challenging and relished countering these. In 2008 a Pakistan Army unit decided to send a 15 man officer led team across the LC to dislodge a small detachment of my brave Rajputs who had temporarily occupied a patrol base to dominate an area of the LC not usually visited or patrolled. In the ensuing clash between four young Rajput soldiers without a senior leader and the 15 Pakistanis the Rajputs lost one soldier and killed 7 Pakistanis. All hell broke loose on the LC in a frontage of about 3 to 4 Km. My orders to the CO were crystal clear “’the night is yours, I do not want the Pakistani bases, from where the soldiers had emerged, to remain standing”. The Rajputs shocked me next morning when they reported the destruction caused to the Pakistan Army posts. The last hurrah was when a Pakistan Army helicopter emerged late the next afternoon and took away the Pakistani Brigade Commander; it was later learnt that he was removed from command; so much for the moral ascendancy achieved by the Rajputs. As the General Officer of the division I asked no one and no one advised me. It was my calling and the risk was also mine.

The above example displays just how Pakistan Army’s proactive and provocative stance on the LC needs to be handled. The offensive response by Indian Army units has to be reflected in their attitude from the moment they step into their area of responsibility.'

Full article http://saisaonline.org/analysis/loc-the ... t-actions/

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3610
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Kashi » 06 Jan 2015 07:52

abhishek_sharma wrote:Yawn reports that 4 Paki civilians killed.


They seem to be hiding the number of ranger/army casualties. Plus Pakis seem to be up to their sleaziness of placing their guns/bunkers amidst the civilian habitation.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21089
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem » 06 Jan 2015 10:06

Akshay Kapoor wrote:- create fear and uncertainty in terrorists minds (army and jihadis). They should not be able to sleep peacefully at night always looking over their shoulders -.


We should emulate NOKO on small scale and keep few hundred long range artillery pieces always in ready mode. There have to be a way where they are forced to spend good % of their annual defence budget just to keep LOC under control. Same on Afghan border .

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3399
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 06 Jan 2015 19:23

Akshay Kapoor wrote:^^ I suggest you read Gen Hasnain's article where he gives example of one his Rajput paltans decimating the enemy across the border. I....

Full article http://saisaonline.org/analysis/loc-the ... t-actions/


Many thanks. Every single article by this man should be mandatory reading.

Posting in full.

LOC: The Downside of BAT Actions
October 5, 2013 by admin2
Filed under Analysis
13 Comments
The recent ongoing Pakistani intrusions on the Line of Control must be understood in the larger perspective of the Pakistan’s philosophy of keeping the LC alive by Border Action Teams(BAT). Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain explains the nuances to clear misconceptions about the LC dynamics.
Editor
Lt Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain

During the 06 Aug 2013 flare up on the LC (LoC) in the Poonch Sector and the beheading incident in Jan 2013 the common string of information was that the targeted killing of Indian Jawans on the LC was executed by BATs. Even in the Army, not many would boast of knowing what BATs are, how do they function (modus operandi), what effects they have and how the Indian Army handles the threat. In the typical lackadaisical way that the public treats matters military not many sought more information on BATs, preferring to leave them to our professional Army to handle.

In a way that is a positive because the world of the LC is the domain of just a few who have had the honour and the ‘sugar high’ of serving in the razor sharp environment that presents itself daily in the ‘border areas’ of Jammu & Kashmir. It may be appropriate to clarify some of the basic ingredients of this high drama environment.

What is the LC?

The LC is different to the LAC (Line of Actual Control), different to the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) and much different to the Working Boundary (a term used only by Pakistan). The LAC alludes to the land boundary between the areas currently held by China and India along the Northern borders and the AGPL refers to the un-demarcated area north east of NJ 9842. To detail these aspects would be to digress from the main issue the LC, which is quite often called LoC by the media but the Army prefers to shorten it to the more colloquial LC.

The LC is an imaginary line running along the current frontier between India and Pakistan in the state of Jammu & Kashmir. Although the Instrument of Accession of 26 Aug 1947 and Joint Resolution of the two Houses of Parliament of Jul 1994 place the whole of Jammu and Kashmir with India, the actual ground position has emerged over the last 65 years commencing with Pakistan’s invasion in 1947 the conflicts of 1965, 1971 and 1999 (Kargil), as also the proxy war launched by Pakistan since 1989. The LC runs well east of the actual International Boundary (IB) and is the alignment along which the operations of 1947-48 came to a halt thus creating Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK-often referred as Azad Kashmir, or AK, by Pakistan). Unlike the IB there are no boundary pillars (BPs) delineating the LC, however, there are a series of mostly unrecognizable landmarks such as boulders, trees and nullahs which have undergone change over years. The Indian and Pakistan Armies are in eyeball contact in their various pillboxes and picquets all along the alignment but at places terrain constraints may separate the two by two or more km.

It is an environment little known to the outside world, where the notion of ‘Grabbers, Keepers’ exists. Translating this into reality it means that any side grabbing a piece of ground for a tactical advantage gets to keep it unless forcibly evicted (recall Kargil 1999).

Events Leading to Current Status

All was well on the LC till 1989 or so except the sporadic shootouts of lower intensity which took place for the sake of ‘moral ascendancy’. A much misunderstood term, ‘moral ascendancy’ remains even today a task for the wily infantrymen and encompasses a range of sub tasks primary being the sanctity of the LC, (no loss of ground) and prevention of rogue actions by Pakistan.

In 1989 things started to change drastically with the belief among the Kashmiri populace that ‘Azadi’ or merger with Pakistan was becoming a reality. The proxy war within the Valley had to be sustained by Pakistan through induction of terrorists, explosives, military hardware and finances. The LC became the obvious conduit through which all this happened. Much against the common belief that the LC is manned metre to metre the ground reality is that there are large gaps dictated by terrain factors, logistics and climatic constraints. It is these gaps which were exploited and converted to ‘highways’ (a terrorist term) for movement of terrorists, potential terrorists(recruits), hardware, explosives and finances.

The Army was forced to redeploy and selectively reinforce at the cost of its counter terrorist operational grid in the Valley floor. This left many of its LC picquets weaker as a new dimension was added to the task of ‘sanctity of the LC’ this was Counter Infiltration. Sensing a great opportunity the Pakistan Army commenced selectively targeting Indian picquets with a mix of regular troops and well trained terrorists (those who had undergone Daura-e-Khas training). The purpose force back Indian Army counter infiltration ambushes, located between picquets and thus create the gaps needed for infiltration. Unprovoked firing by Pakistani posts further forced the creation of gaps. All this occurred in the Nineties and progressive lessons learnt by the Pakistan Army refined the BAT concept.

Characteristics of BATs

Border Action Teams comprise a mix of Pakistan Army regulars, Pakistan Special Forces elements and high profile terrorists (Jihadis) who are trained to cross the LC to execute raids on Indian picquets, ambushes and patrol parties or logistics elements. Strength has mostly been experienced to be 15 to 20. Beheading has been one of the modus operandi adopted by these teams to cause scare and impose immense caution on their targets. The immediate effect of information about concentration of a BAT opposite a particular segment of the LC is an inevitable strengthening of the defensive stance; stronger patrols, more protection for logistics elements such as mule trains which carry advance winter stocking stores; all this at the cost of the counter infiltration grid. The situation can then be exploited for strong infiltration bids through gaps. Quite obviously BAT actions are in the mold of terrorist acts launched with the intent of imposing caution and creating the tactical conditions for terrorist infiltration.

The Coming of the LC Fence

The inevitable question does the Indian Army sit on its haunches waiting to be attacked; far from it. Indian infantry units are known to have wreaked revenge and delivered telling blows on the Pakistan Army and terrorists. In years before the Cease Fire came into place on 26 Nov 2003 exchange of Arty Fire and direct firing heavy weapons was common place. Many an ingenius Indian gunner and infantry commander innovated and caused much destruction on the Pakistan Army. Among others the name of Brigadier Jasbir Lidder (later Lt Gen), Commander of the high profile 12 Infantry Brigade (Uri) is well known for his famous quip “When Uri rumbles, Chakhoti (PoK town opposite Uri) crumbles”. The ingenius LC fence constructed along the 16 & 15 Corps frontages under the outstanding leadership of then COAS Gen Nirmal Vij greatly altered the odds of infiltration. This needs to be understood in the right perspective as the annual reconstruction of the Fence (an expensive exercise in men and material) is very often questioned within the Army and the less informed bureaucratic circles.

The LC Fence

The LC Fence changed much more than just the awe inspiring landscape of the Pir Panjal and Shamshabari ranges. It altered what we call the ‘mathematics of terror’ in Jammu & Kashmir. Prior to 01 Jul 2004 (the date the Fence officially came in existence) Pakistan successfully infiltrated 2000-3000 terrorists across the LC each year. On an average 1400-1500 were killed in engagements with the Indian Army on the LC or in the hinterland. The residual figures were always in favour of Pakistan. Then came General Nirmal Vij who led the construction of the Fence from the plains to the obscene heights of the Shamshabari, flaying the ‘nay sayers’. It altered everything. The Indian Army now had an obstacle to concentrate upon and converted it from a mere line of barbed wire to a system comprising steel, lead, electronics, ether and human beings.
By 2006 the Indian Army had acquired the knowledge and experience of exploiting the LC Fence which was leaking just a few hundred terrorists annually while the Army eliminated double the number in its CI/CT operations. The mathematics were now reversed leading to the situation in 2011-12 when less than 300 terrorists roamed the Valley and 19 top terrorists leaders were eliminated with focused CT operations. The transformational ‘Heart Doctrine’ combined with this approach almost brought Kashmir to the doorstep of conflict stabilization awaiting conflict resolution.

The media and the public have often questioned how BATs can enter 400 500 meters into our side and conduct an operation. There is a simple answer to this. In 2003-4 when the LC Fence was constructed there was no ceasefire for most of the period; hence the Fence had to be constructed well away from the LC at most places. Where ever we were/are in domination the construction was well forward, hugging the LC. The Fence gives natural protection against rogue actions but where it is aligned well inside we per force have picquets/posts/detachments ahead but not necessarily on the LC as long as the area ahead can be dominated by fire. Small patrols are used to dominate this space and these are the patrols which are vulnerable to BAT actions. BATs can therefore enter minefields with considerable risk but no other obstacle prevents them from accessing the Indian Army’s patrol bases or routes of patrolling near (400-500 metres) the LC.

To expect Pakistan Army to use BATs more extensively after the Indian Army’s successful handling of the situation in J&K in 2011-12, is to state the obvious. We often hear of the phrase ‘keeping the pot boiling’ in Kashmir while Pakistan handles the Afghan border and its internal security threats. To execute this concept Pakistan requires its terrorist foot soldiers (boots on the ground) in J&K; to allow the fast dwindling strength to reduce even further would be a catastrophe for the ISI’s post 2014 strategy in J&K. Hence the necessity to once again force creation of gaps on the LC to facilitate infiltration.

Many veterans of the Army would recall some of the well known BAT actions which were launched against Indian Army units and the counter actions taken by the same units. The Indian Army has foiled many more BAT actions than the ones which have succeeded. Only a year ago 16 PUNJAB foiled a major action in the Tangdhar Sector.

Handling BATs at Different Levels

In my long years handling the LC from unit to a Corps Commander I always found the threats from BATs as the most challenging and relished countering these. In 2008 a Pakistan Army unit decided to send a 15 man officer led team across the LC to dislodge a small detachment of my brave Rajputs who had temporarily occupied a patrol base to dominate an area of the LC not usually visited or patrolled. In the ensuing clash between four young Rajput soldiers without a senior leader and the 15 Pakistanis the Rajputs lost one soldier and killed 7 Pakistanis. All hell broke loose on the LC in a frontage of about 3 to 4 Km. My orders to the CO were crystal clear “’the night is yours, I do not want the Pakistani bases, from where the soldiers had emerged, to remain standing”. The Rajputs shocked me next morning when they reported the destruction caused to the Pakistan Army posts. The last hurrah was when a Pakistan Army helicopter emerged late the next afternoon and took away the Pakistani Brigade Commander; it was later learnt that he was removed from command; so much for the moral ascendancy achieved by the Rajputs. As the General Officer of the division I asked no one and no one advised me. It was my calling and the risk was also mine.

The above example displays just how Pakistan Army’s proactive and provocative stance on the LC needs to be handled. The offensive response by Indian Army units has to be reflected in their attitude from the moment they step into their area of responsibility. Most BAT actions take place during handing/taking over between units when command and control is supposedly loose. Infantry units do not realize that each action of theirs even before they arrive in their AOR is under surveillance. Many units having fearsome reputation will never be tested; others with lesser credentials and poor body language of their troops would get tested early. The first engagement if handled with professional aggression will allow a unit a tenure with little turbulence. Destiny has brought many units of both Armies from the Kargil war once again face to face on the LC.

The reader must not go away with the impression that the Pakistan Army and terrorists rule the roost on the LC, far from it. Yet, it is imperative that our commanders be bold, trust their instinct, train their troops hard and wargame contingencies regularly. This is 24 x 7 soldiering where every movement has to be controlled and reactions kept ready; most important of all — time is the worst enemy of effectiveness on the LC. As a sector cools down so does the vigil and then one fine day it happens; there is only one solution to this constant reminders to all at the oddest time of the day or night. There is no rest on the LC; those who rest seldom live to tell the tales.

About the Author

Besides the optimum combination of ground soldiering, staff work and academics, Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain, the scholar warrior, is best known for his path breaking tenure as Corps Commander of the high profile 15 Corps in the Kashmir Valley, where he employed the most unique methods to stabilise the turbulence that the Valley had experienced giving it the best chance for a return to peace. He remains the only officer of the Army to be decorated six times by the President of India and was recently honoured by the Vice President with the Capital Foundation Society’s award for excellence in the field of military leadership. This article first appeared in South Asia Defence and Strategic Review defstrat.com.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9966
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 07 Jan 2015 11:36

Among others the name of Brigadier Jasbir Lidder (later Lt Gen), Commander of the high profile 12 Infantry Brigade (Uri) is well known for his famous quip “When Uri rumbles, Chakhoti (PoK town opposite Uri) crumbles”.

Love this quote!! :D :D


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 53 guests