India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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tsarkar
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby tsarkar » 22 Nov 2016 12:45

krishna_krishna wrote:Sources :

1) Massa replaced P3C destroyed in terror attack for free :
http://www.dawn.com/news/637216

2) Sandeep Unnithan citing naval sources that it was similar to 209 used by IN :
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/paki ... 14350.html


How do 1 & 2 add up to your conclusion?

The mast has EO sensors to detect MPA and the submarine will still be at periscope to snort?

Lalmohan
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Lalmohan » 22 Nov 2016 14:00

we are used to watching big fiery balls of black smoke in fillums... most HE explosions are small puffs without a lot of smoke and dust but with a huge shock wave that does all the damage

the incendiary orange ball is I believe far less damaging

Aditya G
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 22 Nov 2016 14:04

RCL attack on bop fortified with concrete.

Image

Please disseminate thru social media etc

Note: these gifs are 6 mb+ so give few seconds to load

Manish_P
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_P » 22 Nov 2016 14:19

One possibility is that is nothing much inflammable or explosive inside. Another is that Posts usually have good amounts of sand bagging to protect against small arms fire and this could be a factor as well for the muted explosions. And like Lalmohan mentioned, most actual artillery and grenade explosions are much less spectacular than those shown in the movies...

Sid wrote:^^ Just a noob question, why these artillery rounds caused just a small puff. Specially the one which landed on top of roof.

Is that because of using smaller caliber (mortar rounds) or there is something else to it?

shiv
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shiv » 22 Nov 2016 15:38

Lalmohan wrote:we are used to watching big fiery balls of black smoke in fillums... most HE explosions are small puffs without a lot of smoke and dust but with a huge shock wave that does all the damage

the incendiary orange ball is I believe far less damaging

Yeah true. The other thing is that movie explosions are visibly "slow" the plume grows very slowly but looks spectacular. Sometimes bombs weighing 100s of kg give only a short flash and a "puff of dust". Hi velocity explosives burn so fast that the flash may not appear on a film that is recording at 25 fps. No good for movies - you need a slow burn

Eg - a 500 kg bomb (KAB 500) - maybe 200-300 kg HE. Here the orange glow lasts 11 frames out of 25 fps - ie less than 1/2 second
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrE2EMzN4Y


And here is a fake Bollywood style explosion for Rajiv Gandhi PBUH entertainment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHV_I47uSHQ


Another thing is rounds/bombs that bury themselves raise mainly dust like this
https://youtu.be/KfwUxnjPQeI?t=46

As an aside I tried to record a diwali atom bomb at 1000 fps. Will upload sometime - but the flash itself lasted just 3 frames @ 1000 fps

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VKumar » 22 Nov 2016 16:39

Three soldiers martyred in MACHIL sector. Body of one mutilated. Army promises heavy retribution. Just now on DD news.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby anchal » 22 Nov 2016 17:55

^ Decapitation, no less. Surely PA is a barbarian gang of criminals and should be shamed publicaly for their criminality

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sudhan » 22 Nov 2016 18:09

Anchal ji, they have no shame.. Their shamelessness is legendary..

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby anupmisra » 22 Nov 2016 18:55

How do you shame the shameless?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby anupmisra » 22 Nov 2016 18:57

About those new 2000 Rupee notes found with the terrorists, is there a way to retrace those currency notes to the ATM or bank and the person who converted his/her old notes into these new ones?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shiv » 22 Nov 2016 20:07

anupmisra wrote:About those new 2000 Rupee notes found with the terrorists, is there a way to retrace those currency notes to the ATM or bank and the person who converted his/her old notes into these new ones?

jingle jingle jingle..
Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sid » 22 Nov 2016 22:22

Soldier Beheaded, 2 Killed In Kashmir; Second Mutilation By Pak In Weeks
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/body-of- ... eststories

An Indian soldier in Kashmir was beheaded and two others killed by Pakistani commandos who crossed the Line of Control at Machil. Just three weeks ago, Sepoy Mandeep Singh was beheaded not far from the spot; the army has, just like then, vowed revenge. "Retribution will be heavy for this cowardly act," the army said in a statement.


Is this becoming the new "normal"? How long will this continue before the next big escalation?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RohitAM » 23 Nov 2016 00:47

We might eventually be looking at the Army unleashing massive cross-border fire using the MBRL's, targeting the senior HQ's which are usually located outside the range of artillery guns. Any guru has an idea if Prahaar might have been inducted and can be used for this kind of long range precision targeting of Brigade HQ's and beyond?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 23 Nov 2016 01:50

For records;

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 41495.html

By Express News Service | Published: 22nd November 2016 08:58 PM |
Last Updated: 22nd November 2016 08:58 PM | A+A A- |

NEW DELHI: Total 18 Indian soldiers have been killed in the Line of Control by multiple acts carried out the Pakistani army, since Indian army’s cross border surgical strike on terror launch pads situated in the Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

Reacting to Tuesday’s killing of three soldiers, defence minister Manohar Parrikar told security forces to retaliate in strongest manner after he was briefed by the vice chief of army Lt. Gen Bipin Rawat on the incident.

.....


One more GIF (unrelated to recent incidents):

Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Hitesh » 23 Nov 2016 07:37

That's not smithereens. The building is still there.

sum
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 23 Nov 2016 08:14

^^ Loosing 18 soldiers over these 1.5 months ( since Sep end as per the news report linked in other dhaaga) seems a huge number of losses from our end too. Wonder how it is the other side?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 23 Nov 2016 08:41

We have discussed this .... Raheel Shareef is ending his tenure and they wanted to give him a good send off before he left.
This was expected as we had knocked them in the teeth by killing their seven army (not rangers/ not civvies) but seven army men.

Now the good news is that he officially does not leave till Friday.
So 3 days to unleash hell all across the border.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bheeshma » 23 Nov 2016 08:52

Pakis have lost more than 200+ PA and rangers by now. They will always try to hide there losses and pretend they are not getting decimated. If you want any hint of how badly pakis are getting mauled just look at the number of demarches that the pakis are giving Indian ambassador.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rkhanna » 23 Nov 2016 11:00

Morning News Flash: Army Launches Massive Counter Assault.


"^ Decapitation, no less. Surely PA is a barbarian gang of criminals and should be shamed publicaly for their criminality"

Truth be told we ourselves have done it a number of times

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby suryag » 23 Nov 2016 11:27

What's so great about the BATs that we always get ambushed by them of course, those guys need to be lucky only once

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 23 Nov 2016 12:27

Surprise mostly. The Pakis are the one who choose the time and the place. Some of their effort will succeed just for that reason. That is just the nature of the game.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rishi Verma » 23 Nov 2016 13:37

anupmisra wrote:How do you shame the shameless?


By Navy destroying ships in Karachi
By opening new fronts in Kutch, Rajasthan, and Punjab,
By mining the 4-cranes in Gwadar

Even a mentally retarded gets sober with a 4KV jolt treatment

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rkhanna » 23 Nov 2016 13:44

>>What's so great about the BATs that we always get ambushed by them of course, those guys need to be lucky only once
<<

IMO BATS is a loose formation made up of SSG and Pak Irregular/Jihadis.

PS. Setting an ambush in this terrain is not rocket science. Surviving / evading such ambush however is going to be extremely Hard. Anybody on the higher ground Targetting a "killzone" with limited field to maneuver (tight spaces between creveses/rocks etc) is going to have a turkey shoot.

And Patrols of 3-4 men are too small to spread them out over a larger footprint.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bart S » 23 Nov 2016 13:57

pankajs wrote:Surprise mostly. The Pakis are the one who choose the time and the place. Some of their effort will succeed just for that reason. That is just the nature of the game.


Which is why out approach needs to change from being reactive to proactive. We need to reconcile with the fact that they will never see us as anything but the enemy and will never stop attacking us. Any momentary pause is just taqiyya. The sooner that we (especially the political class) internalize that, the better we can protect ourselves.

We need to be the first mover with this, preemptively keep attacking them, and keep them on edge and unbalanced always. And of course, flatly deny stuff, like they do.

It's hard to make that adjustment coming from a culture of honour and decency, but these are the rules of the game and we must figure out a way to play it and win, while insulating our core values and ethos from the TSP levels of depravity.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby jamwal » 23 Nov 2016 18:16

http://www.timesnow.tv/india/video/indi ... orce/52209
#IndiaStrikesBack With Full Force
A day after Pakistan Army’s brutality at the border where three jawans were martyred and a jawan’s body was mutilated, sources have told TIMES NOW that the Indian Army has begun a massive counter assault along the LoC.

The counter assault began at around 9 am today and Pakistani posts along the LoC are being targeted.

On Tuesday, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had instructed the Army to “retaliate in the strongest possible manner.”

Meanwhile, Pakistan has resorted to violating ceasefire in Bhimbergali, KG Sector and Naushera Sector of Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistani troops targeted Indian posts in Balakot sector of Poonch district as well.

Sources have told TIMES NOW that earlier today, Defence minister Manohar Parrikar met with Prime Minister Narendra Modi today morning and briefed him about the latest developments at the LoC.

Sources add that a clear line was given that no stone was to be left unturned and Pakistani provocations need to be retaliated with the same vigour.


120 mm and 80 mm mortars used, no heavy artillery guns yet.



Paki link:
h$$p://www.dawn.com/news/1298159/3-pakistan-army-soldiers-killed-in-exchange-of-fire-with-indian-troops-near-loc-ispr

3 Pakistan Army soldiers killed in exchange of fire with Indian troops near LoC: ISPR

Three Pakistan Army soldiers were killed in an exchange of fire with Indian troops near the Line of Control (LoC) on Wednesday, Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said.

"Three Pakistani soldiers valiantly embraced shahadat at the Line of Control while responding to Indian unprovoked firing," the ISPR said.

The army's media wing identified the soldiers as Captain Taimoor Ali Khan, Havaldar Mushtaq Hussain and Lance Naik Ghulam Hussain.

An ISPR statement also said that seven Indian soldiers confirmed dead in retaliatory fire.

The ISPR added that the exchange of fire between Pakistani and Indian troops is ongoing.

"It may be mentioned here that in order to distract attention from the real issue of atrocities in India-held Kashmir by Indian troops, they are now targeting civilians population across the LoC towards the Pakistan side," the ISPR claimed.

Earlier today, Indian troops targeted a passenger bus near the LoC, killing nine people and injuring 11 others in Lawat.

In a separate incident of Indian shelling in Nakyal and Tatta Pani, one person was killed and seven others injured.

The latest incident of cross-border firing comes just a day after the Indian army claimed three of its soldiers were killed along the LoC and threatened Pakistani forces of retribution.

The Indian army also claimed that the body of one of the dead soldiers had been "mutilated."

The Foreign Office however rejected the claim, saying that the "reports are a fabrication and a blatant attempt to malign Pakistan".

Cross-border firing a new normal
Tensions between Pakistan and India have been running high following an alleged 'surgical strike', unrest in Kashmir and the Uri army base attack in September.

Since then there have been repeated outbreaks of cross-border firing in Kashmir, with both sides reporting deaths and injuries including of civilians.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi stepped up a drive to isolate Pakistan diplomatically after the Uri army base attack in which 19 Indian soldiers were killed. Hours after the attack occurred, Indian Home Minister Rajnath Singh termed Pakistan a 'terrorist state' and accused Pakistan of involvement.

The Uri attack occurred days before Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif was set to address the United Nations General Assembly regarding Indian human rights violations in held Kashmir.

Following the attack, India claimed it had conducted a cross-border 'surgical strike' against 'launch pads of terror' in Azad Jammu and Kashmir — a claim Pakistan has strongly rejected.

Pakistan maintains that India is attempting to divert the world's attention away from atrocities committed by government forces in India-held Kashmir.

Pakistan and India have, most recently, locked horns over Kashmir since Indian forces stepped up a crackdown against protesters after Hizbul Mujahideen commander Burhan Wani was killed by government forces in July.

krishna_krishna
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishna_krishna » 23 Nov 2016 18:45

we should start catching those BAT teams and start exhuminating remains since terror has no religion and these are terrorist who do these acts.

No more 72, see what happens

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby putnanja » 23 Nov 2016 20:05

White flag being raised by pakis.

Doordarshan News ‏@DDNewsLive 7m7 minutes ago
#Pakistan requests for DGMO-level talks: Indian Army
0 replies 11 retweets 17 likes
Reply Retweet 11
Like 17
More

habal
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 23 Nov 2016 20:11

8 is not enough. Yeh dil maange more, much much more.

80 or 800 more like would be more appropriate lesson to these sub-humans. We need to do much much more before calling it a day and before we settle scores as even.

how about introducing 155mm on LOC for a change and keeping them on fire mode for a week at a stretch. It's not about combating fire with fire, it is about hitting vital interests so that enemy doesn't have any means to hold on to aggression.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ranjan.rao » 23 Nov 2016 20:12

At what point in the escalation ladder does the airpower come in? Can't we bring that in early to incinerate these pigs.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sid » 23 Nov 2016 20:17

This is much more like it, if they do a small hit job light up the whole border. They don't appreciate quality of "thappad", they appreciate quantity of "thappads".

And next time call for air support as well, it's not Army vs Army thing :)

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bheeshma » 23 Nov 2016 20:48

Why air power? First introduce Bofors and Pinaka.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby manjgu » 23 Nov 2016 20:57

a country 1/7 of our size is making problems for us...shame on us. i hate the word 'befitting reply' ..it should be 'disproportionate reply' or ' devastating reply" ...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby parshuram » 23 Nov 2016 21:37

manjgu wrote:a country 1/7 of our size is making problems for us...shame on us. i hate the word 'befitting reply' ..it should be 'disproportionate reply' or ' devastating reply" ...


Jeez what would Saudis, Iranis and Egyptian's should think of Israel Then.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ranjan.rao » 23 Nov 2016 21:45

^^^It's the size of right muscle/piece of flesh that matters

arun
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby arun » 23 Nov 2016 22:01

X Posted.

Indian Army press release via PIB on DGMO level talks with the Uniformed Jihadi's of Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Aftermath of Indian Army’s Punitive Fire Assaults: Pak DGMO Requests for Unscheduled Talks on Hotline


In an unscheduled Hot Line interaction requested for by Pakistan, Indian Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) Lt Gen Ranbir Singh spoke to his counterpart this evening. Pak DGMO informed of civilian casualties on Pak side by Indian firing along the Line of Control. Lt Gen Ranbir Singh expressed grief at Pak civilian casualties but emphatically stated that retaliatory firing by Indian troops has only been carried out targeting locations from where Pakistan has initiated cease fire violations on Indian Posts. Lt Gen Ranbir Singh expressed his concerns to Pak DGMO on casualties caused to Indian civilians and soldiers due to unprovoked Pak firing.

Indian DGMO further raised the issue of infiltration attempts by terrorists from Pak side into J&K and the un-ethical act of mutilation of the body of Indian soldiers close to the Line of Control by terrorists infiltrating from Pakistan. Pak DGMO was exhorted to exercise strict control on their troops to refrain from any nefarious activities. This would lead to return of normalcy along Line of Control. However, he was categorically informed that if any cease fire violations were initiated by Pak troops or any infiltration attempts were made by terrorists from Pak Occupied Kashmir or territory under its control, it would invite an appropriate response by Indian Army.

Col Rohan Anand, SM
PRO (Army)
(Release ID :154207)


From here:

Clicky

Aditya G
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 23 Nov 2016 22:27

^they may fire the first bullet but we will fire the last.

Mimics our official stance viz nuclear war

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem » 24 Nov 2016 00:41

http://www.dawn.com/news/1298130/9-kill ... s-near-loc
Indian troops resumed heavy shelling on Wednesday after a day-long lull and targeted a passenger bus in Azad Jammu and Kashmir's Lawat area, killing nine people and injuring 11 others. Indian troops also fired at an ambulance which went into the area for evacuation, Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said.A total of 10 people have been killed today, and 18 others wounded in Indian shelling.SP Mir said shelling in Neelum valley had begun at about 3:00am, but intensified in the morning. Officials from other areas had similar stories.Chief of Army Staff General Raheel Sharif held a special meeting at the Corps Headquarters Rawalpindi to review the situation along the Line of Control (LoC), with emphasis on the attack by Indian troops on a civilian bus, said a statement released by the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR).In a separate incident of Indian shelling in Nakyal, one person was killed and six others injured.Sardar Zeeshan Nisar, assistant commissioner of Nakyal, in the southern Kotli district said, "Shelling in my area has started at about 8:40 am, and it has been indiscriminate."Tatta Pani sector of district Kotli was also receiving shells. According to an official at the office of the deputy commissioner Kotli, one person was injured in the area.Locals in Battal, Madarpur sectors of district Poonch said their areas were also hit by heavy shelling."There were unconfirmed reports about some people having been injured, but we are awaiting confirmation," a police official told Dawn from MadarpurAJK Legislative Assembly Speaker Shah Ghulam Qadir who has returned from Neelum valley said the situation was critical all along the LoC."I call upon the government of Pakistan to raise the unprovoked shelling of civilian populations as an issue in the UN Security Council to build pressure on India," he told journalists in Muzaffarabad.He said since Neelum valley was highly vulnerable to Indian guns, "a great trial had begun for its nearly 250,000 residents."He claimed that Indian troops were not even allowing transportation of injured persons to Muzaffarabad.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ranjan.rao » 24 Nov 2016 02:47

^^ what "Tatta Pani sector of district Kotli was also receiving shells." thats truly breaking their balls

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby milano » 24 Nov 2016 02:47

If ToI article is to be believed (and no reason not to as it seems to corroborate what Prem posted from the Dawn article) , it is encouraging to see that we are continuing to fulfill our promise of imposing heavy costs and swiftly.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/To-avenge-beheading-Army-pounds-Pakistan-posts-in-5-sectors/articleshow/55589894.cms


Noteworthy snippets:

"The ferocity of the fire assaults, which saw 15 to 16 Pakistan army posts being targeted with heavy-calibre weapons in five sectors spread along the line of control, was such that the Pakistan DGMO was forced to call his Indian counterpart, Lt Gen Ranbir Singh, over the hotline for "unscheduled talks" at 6.30pm."

"The fire assaults, with 120mm heavy mortars and anti-tank guided missiles as well as artillery and air defence guns in "a direct firing mode" from different locations, targeted 15-16 posts of the Pakistan army with destructive precision."

Jai Hind.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SwamyG » 24 Nov 2016 03:10

anupmisra wrote:How do you shame the shameless?

You don't. You increase their rage, and cause them to self-destruct.


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