India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 09 Nov 2018 21:58

There is a sniper detection kit developed which pin points direction using the sound of the round fired. Obviously it may still be in testing and not all units can be equipped.

Having said that, all these are defensive kit. We open up on a across a large area, is when PA will learn. All these bombing one two post will not cut it.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Kakkaji » 11 Nov 2018 09:46

Do the Pakis have some advantage in the number/ training/ equipment of their snipers at present, which they are pressing so hard? I understand our Dragunov sniper rifles were bought quite some time ago. Is theer a gap currently that the Pakis are exploiting with these relentless sniper attacks?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Nov 2018 11:22

Kakkaji wrote:Do the Pakis have some advantage in the number/ training/ equipment of their snipers at present, which they are pressing so hard? I understand our Dragunov sniper rifles were bought quite some time ago. Is theer a gap currently that the Pakis are exploiting with these relentless sniper attacks?

Pakis have had this plan since 2012 when they were scouting for best available sniper rifles. As usual we fail to understand that as long as Pakistan exists it will attack us. While waiting to develop sniper tactics we should use whatever we got to develop body bags for the PA for a temporary lull while we eliminate thier snipers. This is where weapons like anti material rifles can take these guys out at long range which the GOI decided against in 2005.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rkhanna » 12 Nov 2018 17:58

Aditya_V wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:Do the Pakis have some advantage in the number/ training/ equipment of their snipers at present, which they are pressing so hard? I understand our Dragunov sniper rifles were bought quite some time ago. Is theer a gap currently that the Pakis are exploiting with these relentless sniper attacks?

Pakis have had this plan since 2012 when they were scouting for best available sniper rifles. As usual we fail to understand that as long as Pakistan exists it will attack us. While waiting to develop sniper tactics we should use whatever we got to develop body bags for the PA for a temporary lull while we eliminate thier snipers. This is where weapons like anti material rifles can take these guys out at long range which the GOI decided against in 2005.


Pakistan has a proper Sniper Program in place for some time. It was built up and helped set up by US SFGs as part of their FID program. A sniper program is miles away and apples to organges as compared to a DMR capability. For the most part we in India train designated Marksmen (even in SF). A "Sniper" programs are rudimentary at best.

A ghillie suit doesnt make a sniper.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 12 Nov 2018 19:16

Frankly no one cares if Pak has better sniper or sniper kit. The solution is not to create our exclusive sniper school and import kit, there by "equaling Pak". This complain about "lack of snipers" is frankly nonsense.

There are enough bullets and targets on LoC, where both sides can keep this sniper game going on decades.

Deterrent to sniper tactics is not to apply our sniper tactics. Deterrent is applying disproportional force on PA in LoC.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Zynda » 12 Nov 2018 21:24

I believe we have lost 3 of our jawans to Paki sniper fire in the last week alone. I don't know what the best way to counter Paki sniper fire...by our snipers (difficult to locate most of snipers along LoC)...perhaps it is to escalate the situation to make it unaffordable by TSP to continue to use sniper attacks. But we know that TSP does treat it soldiers as extremely expendable resource. Unless we hit the points which cause extreme pain to TSPA (read officer level corps & higher etc), not sure if it matters much.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 12 Nov 2018 22:15

We have to do hammer the Pak frontline post and use tech to locate and neutralize Pak artillery position. Once their artillery & mortar teams start getting neutralized, Paks can only use small arms.

Find ways to locate these positions on reverse slope( like highflying UAV /SU30 with powerful optics ) and use PGM to hit them. Unfortunately we don't seem to invest in such tech, despite decades of LoC static warfare.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshhan » 12 Nov 2018 23:57

Zynda wrote:I believe we have lost 3 of our jawans to Paki sniper fire in the last week alone. I don't know what the best way to counter Paki sniper fire...by our snipers (difficult to locate most of snipers along LoC)...perhaps it is to escalate the situation to make it unaffordable by TSP to continue to use sniper attacks. But we know that TSP does treat it soldiers as extremely expendable resource. Unless we hit the points which cause extreme pain to TSPA (read officer level corps & higher etc), not sure if it matters much.


The only way it can be prevented is by stopping manned patrolling altogether. And that would mean handing dominance on LOC terrain to pakis on a platter. Indian Army being an aggressive army will never agree to it. Till the time we finally destroy Pakistan we will have to bear our losses. Many more are going to fall in line of duty for their Fatherland. That is it. Cut and dried.

The major problem is that most of us are unable to see the big picture. For example while counting our losses, we are unable to factor the losses we are inflicting on Pakis. One thing is very clear, since 2014 the amount of Paki blood that has been shed has risen manifold and not just on LOC. Yes there is tremendous scope for improvement. More Pakistani Army Officers have to be murdered in their safe areas. Their critical infrastructure has to be targetted. The resistance groups in Pakistan have to be armed to Manpads and anti armor missiles. All this is yet to be done. but somewhere a start has been made and Pakis are definitely rattled.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby brvarsh » 13 Nov 2018 09:57

Though tracking a sniper may be technologically possible but it makes it harder in a terrain like LoC. But, there is no reply better than a retaliation. We do not have to use snipers in response to their snipers. We have other folks in sight too, if they kill one, we kill the ones in sight with a mortar attack.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 13 Nov 2018 10:05

^^ Why do you think this isn't happening already?

Already, there was a rally in PoK yesterday by school kids demanding end of Indian shelling. One can imagine the volume being put across if it has come to such a pass

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Nov 2018 16:04

Hope this is not a pathankot redux. 4 men have hijacked a taxi at gunpoint near pathankot. Taxi driver they were speaking a Paki dialect of Punjabi

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 25 Dec 2018 19:00

Of 2,061 border fencing light poles, only 616 functional along Gujarat-Pakistan border.

Out of the 2,061 Border Fencing Light poles along the international border in Gujarat's Bhuj and Gandhinagar Sector, only 616 are "functional", the BSF has told the CPWD, according to the minutes of an inter-departmental co-ordination meeting held in November.

Border Security Force officers also informed the CPWD that out of 82 diesel gensets, only 38 are "functional", "affecting operational duties" by the troops on the sensitive international border, the minutes stated.

The meeting was held at BSF Headquarters in New Delhi, during which senior officers of BSF and CPWD, the government's largest construction agency, discussed several projects.

BSF Director General Rajni Kant Mishra and Central Public Works Department DG Prabhakar Singh also attended the November 16 meeting.
India's border with Pakistan runs through four states, Jammu and Kashmir (1,225 km,which includes 740 km of Line of Control), Rajasthan (1,037 km), Punjab (553 km) and Gujarat (508 km).

"Out of 2,061 BFL poles, only 616 BFL poles are functional (along the international border in Bhuj and Gandhinagar Sector). Out of 82 DG sets, only 38 are functonal.

There have been several attempts of infiltration by terrorists who cut the border fences to enter India from the Pakistani side. BFLs are maintained by CPWD in Bhuj and Gandhi Nagar Sector.

According to the minutes of meeting, the CPWD intimated that work of repairing of BFLs and DG sets in Bhuj and Gandhi Nagar Sector are in progress and will be handed over to BSF after proper rectifications.

It also stated that in Jammu, out of the 28 command posts in non-composite Border Output Posts, so far only three command posts have been completed and 17 are under-construction with "very slow progress" while work on eight have not yet started.

It added that out of the 43 High Mast Lights in river-line gaps, so far work on 25 HML has been completed while three are under construction with "very slow progress" and 15 HML work has not started yet.


Just imagine this is the state of affairs of our border with our sworn enemy when we have a semi nationalist govt which is more defence oriented at the helm of affairs. It is a miracle that Bharat Varsh survives.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishna_krishna » 03 Jan 2019 11:13

Guys two good news at beginning of the new year :

1)

Storm Leader @airassault71
18h18 hours ago
More
For the first time since 2001, Indian army has pushed the LoC by a couple of hundred metres into POK in Mandhala area of Poonch (Hajira sector).

2) On India Today, Lt.General Hasnain revealed that the reason for Paki's attempting BAT action comprising of only SSG personnel in Naugam sector (Dec 30-31) was because during recent LoC firing, a serving Brigadier of Paki army was injured badly.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 03 Jan 2019 12:01

Excellent news... and we have Hallaled 2 pigs already in the new year.. that too SSG pigs... great way to start the year.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 03 Jan 2019 12:58

What does pushed LoC mean? We have captured their border posts?

This fits with the oft-repeated BRF formula of grabbing some small chunks after every major terror event

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 03 Jan 2019 18:43

krishna_krishna wrote:Guys two good news at beginning of the new year :

1)

Storm Leader @airassault71
18h18 hours ago
More
For the first time since 2001, Indian army has pushed the LoC by a couple of hundred metres into POK in Mandhala area of Poonch (Hajira sector).

2) On India Today, Lt.General Hasnain revealed that the reason for Paki's attempting BAT action comprising of only SSG personnel in Naugam sector (Dec 30-31) was because during recent LoC firing, a serving Brigadier of Paki army was injured badly.



While it is excellent I believe we are failing to examine the complete picture.

BAT action did not comprise of SSG commandos.
These were hard core militants that form part of the BAT Team.
Gen Hasnain and many others refuted that they were SSG commandos. I think we were a bit premature on the Indian media calling them SSG, I believe at best one of them wast.

The action to severely injure the Brigadier was taken to avenge the death of two our brave JCOs, Till I do not see 5 dead JCOs or jawans. I believe the score is against us.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 03 Jan 2019 18:52

Unfortunately PA does not value it's JCO or jawans. We need to hit their officer corp, where ever possible along with ones on the frontline. That is the only deterrent.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 04 Jan 2019 05:52

Agreed, but at the moment we have not even killed two jawans of theirs.
lets be patient. IA takes care of its own.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 12 Jan 2019 05:20

Army goes for emergency purchase of some advanced sniper rifles for troops deployed at LOC.

The Army has gone in for an emergency purchase of a very small number of advanced sniper rifles, with longer ranges as well as modern telescopic sights, for troops deployed along the Line of Control with Pakistan.

The new sniper rifles, Beretta’s .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT and Barrett’s .50-calibre M95 guns, which have an effective kill range from
1,500 to 1,800 metres, are being purchased under the Northern Army Command chief’s emergency financial powers
. “The rifles should arrive soon,”said an officer.

The larger “capital procurement” of 5,719 new 8.6mm sniper rifles to equip all the 382 infantry battalions in the over 12-lakh strong Army – each unit is authorized 10 sniper rifles – will however take another couple of years.

Sniping is posing a major operational challenge for Indian troops along the 778-km long LoC, with Pakistan Army soldiers equipped with modern Remington modular sniper rifles as well as better training, as was reported earlier by TOI.

Indian infantry soldiers, in contrast, are saddled with Russian-origin 7.62mm Dragunov semi-automatic sniper rifles, which have a “limited” kill range of 800-metre and a design vintage of the 1960s. In the absence of Picatinny rails, the Dragunov rifles are also incompatible with several modern essential accessories like magnification and sight systems.

The Army’s Para-Special Forces units, already equipped with advanced sniper rifles like Israeli Galil rifles, are now also getting some long-range Finnish Sako sniper rifles, which have a kill range of around 2,400-metre.

But it’s the infantry soldiers deployed along the LoC who desperately need new weapons, ranging from assault and sniper rifles to close-combat carbines and light machine guns.

Much more than the use of heavier weapons like mortars, light artillery and anti-tank guided missiles, effective sniper operations have a greater demoralizing effect on rival troops in the continuing hostilities and ceasefire violations along the LoC.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RKumar » 12 Jan 2019 13:51

I would have not alerted the otherside and would have let guns do the talking by taking out 10s of their officers to avenge the killings of our soldiers

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby la.khan » 21 Jan 2019 08:05

9/11 derailed Army plan to capture Pakistani posts along LoC

So, what's with Operation Kabaddi? As per Chindu frontpage news headline (Mon., 21st Jan. 2019), Indian army planned to capture 25 paki posts on LoC to prevent infiltration of t*rds from across the border. This plan was allegedly interrupted by 11 Sep. 2001 terrorist attacks in US.

I wonder how true is this. While the idea of taking over 25 LoC paki posts to prevent infiltration is admirable, in the intervening 17+ years, no other opportunity was available to carry out Operation Kabaddi?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby anupmisra » 21 Jan 2019 10:15

Wrong thread...
Last edited by anupmisra on 21 Jan 2019 10:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 12 Feb 2019 20:17

Indian Army’s new sniper rifle paired with old improvisation tactics will turn tables at LoC: Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain.

The media has repeatedly said over the last few months that sniping is a new modus operandi at the Line of Control between India and Pakistan and the Army is losing this new war due to ageing equipment.

Out dated equipment is a concern, and therefore the Indian Army has just bought new deadly sniper rifles for the Northern Command – .50 Calibre M95 by Barrett and the .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT by Beretta – to replace the Russian Dragunov.

But contrary to media’s claims, sniping is not a new phenomenon, and is in fact a tried-and-tested way of achieving moral ascendancy along the Line of Control (LoC) and the Indian Army hasn’t fared poorly. Improvisation has largely made up for lack of adequate equipment.

The Soviet-era Dragunov sniper rifle has been the mainstay of the Indian Army in conventional operations along the LoC as well in counter-terror missions. However, the 800-metre effective range offered by the Dragunov is now insufficient for modern-day warfare.

Yet, the Indian Army through improvisation, correct training and selection has created an environment wherein sniping has become a force multiplier. The adversary too hasn’t been static on this front.

I recall on the first day of my command at Siachen in 1995, we lost an outstanding young officer, keeping vigil on his post from behind a four-feet wall, to a single shot fired by the enemy. Investigation showed that the shot was fired by a medium machine gun (MMG) from a range of 4,200 metres. It is definitely not a range from which an MMG is fired, but improvisation made it possible.

Sources within the Indian Army say that there is no despair over inadequate sniping equipment because improvisation has made up for it, with even anti-material rifles being used for sniping now. However, improvisation alone cannot ever be a permanent solution to fighting the adversary; soldiers won’t say it but they know it.

The purchase of new sniper rifles, with enhanced range of 1500-1800 metres, was much-needed, but their arrival doesn’t guarantee overnight success. Some degree of improvisation and innovation will again be the key to ensuring optimum utilisation.

How to maximise effectiveness
The effectiveness of a weapon can be maximised when the user is confident about it, its technical characteristics including faults have been well-understood, and the required talent pool has been created for it among the fighting units.

All this can happen fast, given the Indian Army’s penchant to pursue an aim with utmost focus. But it also needs to add institutional weight behind the effort, through reintroduction of the sniper training course and sniper competitions, which stopped several years ago. Those who acquire requisite skills after rigorous training must be suitably rewarded.

Introducing the Sniper Badge is the first such step and only those meeting the stringent standards must earn the right to display it. Shooting ranges of 1,800 metres and beyond are not available along the LoC. There is little scope for the troops deployed to train with the equipment unless select batches are sent for training at the ranges in desert areas or central India. The best training ground, of course, is the LoC itself and there is no doubt that a simultaneous on-the-job training, while fighting the adversary, can continue there.

But we need more than just a gung-ho approach to streamline the creation of a talent pool that once existed in the Infantry units.

Sniping war will continue
It is important to know why sniping is a difficult operation at the LoC and yet easy enough to grab opportunities when they present themselves. Recently, a one-star rank officer of the Pakistan Army was seriously injured in an exchange of fire in the Lipa sector. It led to the Pakistanis targeting two JCOs on our side in the Kupwara sector. Both operations, the Pakistani and ours, involved the use of snipers. Many more exchanges have been reported over the last year. The LoC posts are virtual citadels with a labyrinth of deep communication trenches to afford movement within the post without enemy observation, but there are a number of other places where any movement is under observation.

Terrain domination in some areas give either side the advantage of observation, and vegetation is not available everywhere for cover. A quid pro quo situation exists at most places along the LoC where there are mutual vulnerabilities that prevent risk taking by either side. He who has the ability and confidence to prevent exposure of potential targets becomes the psychological winner, a major contribution to moral ascendancy at the LoC. It forces a lot of movement by night.

At the LoC, the Indian Army will always be forced to offer more targets than the adversary not only because of the higher quantum of deployment, but also due to the nature of it. Deployment in small detachments in tactically unsound positions along the LoC to prevent infiltration is common; tactically unsound may seem strange to older soldiers, but the fact remains that in counter infiltration the aim is to prevent terrorists getting across and not the defence of some real estate. This increases vulnerability especially when the LoC fence is under reconstruction or maintenance.

The idiom ‘two can play this game’ is applicable all along the LoC. While ceasefire will remain on paper, violations will take place. Sniping exchange, however, is largely unreported and therefore remains outside the purview of public gaze.

The sniping war, therefore, will continue even as other means of moral domination emerge. The arrival of new sniper weapons, combined with improvisation and a return to the old-world sniper training culture, will definitely help in turning the tables on the adversary to a greater extent.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rakesh » 20 Feb 2019 04:08

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 7297656832 ----> Blighter Surveillance Systems a British designer and manufacturer of electronic-scanning (E-scan) radars and surveillance solutions, is supplying its Blighter B400 series E-scan micro Doppler ground surveillance radar to Dat-Con Defence for deployment along the Indian border.

Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 04 Mar 2019 18:41

Electronic surveillance of Indo-Bangla border to begin Tuesday.

A "highly porous" riverine section of the Indo-Bangladesh border in Assam will be put under electronic surveillance from Tuesday in a bid to check illegal immigration and smuggling of arms, ammunition, drugs and cattle, the Union Home Ministry (MHA) said Monday.

The "smart fencing" will be operationalised in the 61 km riverine section of the international border in Dhubri district of Assam where the Brahmaputra river enters into Bangladesh.

The project, BOLD-QIT (Border Electronically Dominated QRT Interception Technique), under the Comprehensive Integrated Border Management System (CIBMS), will be inaugurated by Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh. It will cover the India-Bangladesh border in the area which consists of 'char' (sand islands) and innumerable river channels, which makes border guarding a daunting task, especially during the rainy season, a
statement by the MHA said.

To overcome this problem, the Ministry of Home Affairs had in 2017 decided to employ a technological solution besides the physical presence of Border Security Force (BSF) personnel.

In January 2018, the information and technology wing of the BSF undertook project BOLD-QIT and completed it in record time with the technical support of various manufacturers and suppliers.

BOLD-QIT is a project aimed to install technical systems under the CIBMS, enabling the BSF to equip the Indo-Bangla border in the unfenced riverine area of the Brahmaputra and its tributaries with various kind of sensors.

Now, the entire span of the Brahmaputra has been covered with the data network generated by Microwave communication, OFC Cables, DMR Communication, day and night surveillance cameras and intrusion detection system, the statement said.

These modern gadgets provide feeds to the BSF control rooms along the border and enable the paramilitary force's quick reaction teams to thwart any possibility of illegal border crossing and crimes.

"The riverine section of Indo-Bangladesh border in Dhubri is considered to be highly porous where movement of illegal immigrants and smuggling of arms, ammunition and other goods are very common. The smart fencing will solve the problem to a great extent," a Home Ministry official said.
The BSF is responsible for safeguarding the 4,096-km-long international border with Bangladesh. At various places, it is not possible to erect border fences due to geographical barriers, the statement said.

The implementation of this project will not only help the BSF curb all types of cross-border crimes, but also provide respite to the troops from round the clock human surveillance it said.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_P » 04 Mar 2019 19:21

Vips wrote:But it also needs to add institutional weight behind the effort, through reintroduction of the sniper training course and sniper competitions, which stopped several years ago.


:shock: Any idea when was this?

This seems unbelievable for an army which lays emphasis on 'Ek Goli, Ek Dushman' and which has faced unending hostilities for decades

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby himanshugoswami » 04 Mar 2019 22:49

There is an RAF Airbus KC2 VOyager MRTT over Balochistan right now per FLight Radar 24. Flight number NAG66OS. This is very interesting. Why would an RAF tanker be over PAk airspace in these times?

EDIT- its seems to have switched its transponder off now....this gets more curious

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem » 05 Mar 2019 00:11

himanshugoswami wrote:There is an RAF Airbus KC2 VOyager MRTT over Balochistan right now per FLight Radar 24. Flight number NAG66OS. This is very interesting. Why would an RAF tanker be over PAk airspace in these times?

EDIT- its seems to have switched its transponder off now....this gets more curious

Paki running low on POL being supplied by RAF ?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 05 Mar 2019 07:10

himanshugoswami wrote:There is an RAF Airbus KC2 VOyager MRTT over Balochistan right now per FLight Radar 24. Flight number NAG66OS. This is very interesting. Why would an RAF tanker be over PAk airspace in these times?

EDIT- its seems to have switched its transponder off now....this gets more curious

Supplying its troops/US troops in Afg?


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