India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 09 Nov 2018 21:58

There is a sniper detection kit developed which pin points direction using the sound of the round fired. Obviously it may still be in testing and not all units can be equipped.

Having said that, all these are defensive kit. We open up on a across a large area, is when PA will learn. All these bombing one two post will not cut it.

Kakkaji
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Kakkaji » 11 Nov 2018 09:46

Do the Pakis have some advantage in the number/ training/ equipment of their snipers at present, which they are pressing so hard? I understand our Dragunov sniper rifles were bought quite some time ago. Is theer a gap currently that the Pakis are exploiting with these relentless sniper attacks?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Nov 2018 11:22

Kakkaji wrote:Do the Pakis have some advantage in the number/ training/ equipment of their snipers at present, which they are pressing so hard? I understand our Dragunov sniper rifles were bought quite some time ago. Is theer a gap currently that the Pakis are exploiting with these relentless sniper attacks?

Pakis have had this plan since 2012 when they were scouting for best available sniper rifles. As usual we fail to understand that as long as Pakistan exists it will attack us. While waiting to develop sniper tactics we should use whatever we got to develop body bags for the PA for a temporary lull while we eliminate thier snipers. This is where weapons like anti material rifles can take these guys out at long range which the GOI decided against in 2005.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rkhanna » 12 Nov 2018 17:58

Aditya_V wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:Do the Pakis have some advantage in the number/ training/ equipment of their snipers at present, which they are pressing so hard? I understand our Dragunov sniper rifles were bought quite some time ago. Is theer a gap currently that the Pakis are exploiting with these relentless sniper attacks?

Pakis have had this plan since 2012 when they were scouting for best available sniper rifles. As usual we fail to understand that as long as Pakistan exists it will attack us. While waiting to develop sniper tactics we should use whatever we got to develop body bags for the PA for a temporary lull while we eliminate thier snipers. This is where weapons like anti material rifles can take these guys out at long range which the GOI decided against in 2005.


Pakistan has a proper Sniper Program in place for some time. It was built up and helped set up by US SFGs as part of their FID program. A sniper program is miles away and apples to organges as compared to a DMR capability. For the most part we in India train designated Marksmen (even in SF). A "Sniper" programs are rudimentary at best.

A ghillie suit doesnt make a sniper.

nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 12 Nov 2018 19:16

Frankly no one cares if Pak has better sniper or sniper kit. The solution is not to create our exclusive sniper school and import kit, there by "equaling Pak". This complain about "lack of snipers" is frankly nonsense.

There are enough bullets and targets on LoC, where both sides can keep this sniper game going on decades.

Deterrent to sniper tactics is not to apply our sniper tactics. Deterrent is applying disproportional force on PA in LoC.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Zynda » 12 Nov 2018 21:24

I believe we have lost 3 of our jawans to Paki sniper fire in the last week alone. I don't know what the best way to counter Paki sniper fire...by our snipers (difficult to locate most of snipers along LoC)...perhaps it is to escalate the situation to make it unaffordable by TSP to continue to use sniper attacks. But we know that TSP does treat it soldiers as extremely expendable resource. Unless we hit the points which cause extreme pain to TSPA (read officer level corps & higher etc), not sure if it matters much.

nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 12 Nov 2018 22:15

We have to do hammer the Pak frontline post and use tech to locate and neutralize Pak artillery position. Once their artillery & mortar teams start getting neutralized, Paks can only use small arms.

Find ways to locate these positions on reverse slope( like highflying UAV /SU30 with powerful optics ) and use PGM to hit them. Unfortunately we don't seem to invest in such tech, despite decades of LoC static warfare.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshhan » 12 Nov 2018 23:57

Zynda wrote:I believe we have lost 3 of our jawans to Paki sniper fire in the last week alone. I don't know what the best way to counter Paki sniper fire...by our snipers (difficult to locate most of snipers along LoC)...perhaps it is to escalate the situation to make it unaffordable by TSP to continue to use sniper attacks. But we know that TSP does treat it soldiers as extremely expendable resource. Unless we hit the points which cause extreme pain to TSPA (read officer level corps & higher etc), not sure if it matters much.


The only way it can be prevented is by stopping manned patrolling altogether. And that would mean handing dominance on LOC terrain to pakis on a platter. Indian Army being an aggressive army will never agree to it. Till the time we finally destroy Pakistan we will have to bear our losses. Many more are going to fall in line of duty for their Fatherland. That is it. Cut and dried.

The major problem is that most of us are unable to see the big picture. For example while counting our losses, we are unable to factor the losses we are inflicting on Pakis. One thing is very clear, since 2014 the amount of Paki blood that has been shed has risen manifold and not just on LOC. Yes there is tremendous scope for improvement. More Pakistani Army Officers have to be murdered in their safe areas. Their critical infrastructure has to be targetted. The resistance groups in Pakistan have to be armed to Manpads and anti armor missiles. All this is yet to be done. but somewhere a start has been made and Pakis are definitely rattled.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby brvarsh » 13 Nov 2018 09:57

Though tracking a sniper may be technologically possible but it makes it harder in a terrain like LoC. But, there is no reply better than a retaliation. We do not have to use snipers in response to their snipers. We have other folks in sight too, if they kill one, we kill the ones in sight with a mortar attack.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 13 Nov 2018 10:05

^^ Why do you think this isn't happening already?

Already, there was a rally in PoK yesterday by school kids demanding end of Indian shelling. One can imagine the volume being put across if it has come to such a pass

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Nov 2018 16:04

Hope this is not a pathankot redux. 4 men have hijacked a taxi at gunpoint near pathankot. Taxi driver they were speaking a Paki dialect of Punjabi

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 25 Dec 2018 19:00

Of 2,061 border fencing light poles, only 616 functional along Gujarat-Pakistan border.

Out of the 2,061 Border Fencing Light poles along the international border in Gujarat's Bhuj and Gandhinagar Sector, only 616 are "functional", the BSF has told the CPWD, according to the minutes of an inter-departmental co-ordination meeting held in November.

Border Security Force officers also informed the CPWD that out of 82 diesel gensets, only 38 are "functional", "affecting operational duties" by the troops on the sensitive international border, the minutes stated.

The meeting was held at BSF Headquarters in New Delhi, during which senior officers of BSF and CPWD, the government's largest construction agency, discussed several projects.

BSF Director General Rajni Kant Mishra and Central Public Works Department DG Prabhakar Singh also attended the November 16 meeting.
India's border with Pakistan runs through four states, Jammu and Kashmir (1,225 km,which includes 740 km of Line of Control), Rajasthan (1,037 km), Punjab (553 km) and Gujarat (508 km).

"Out of 2,061 BFL poles, only 616 BFL poles are functional (along the international border in Bhuj and Gandhinagar Sector). Out of 82 DG sets, only 38 are functonal.

There have been several attempts of infiltration by terrorists who cut the border fences to enter India from the Pakistani side. BFLs are maintained by CPWD in Bhuj and Gandhi Nagar Sector.

According to the minutes of meeting, the CPWD intimated that work of repairing of BFLs and DG sets in Bhuj and Gandhi Nagar Sector are in progress and will be handed over to BSF after proper rectifications.

It also stated that in Jammu, out of the 28 command posts in non-composite Border Output Posts, so far only three command posts have been completed and 17 are under-construction with "very slow progress" while work on eight have not yet started.

It added that out of the 43 High Mast Lights in river-line gaps, so far work on 25 HML has been completed while three are under construction with "very slow progress" and 15 HML work has not started yet.


Just imagine this is the state of affairs of our border with our sworn enemy when we have a semi nationalist govt which is more defence oriented at the helm of affairs. It is a miracle that Bharat Varsh survives.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishna_krishna » 03 Jan 2019 11:13

Guys two good news at beginning of the new year :

1)

Storm Leader @airassault71
18h18 hours ago
More
For the first time since 2001, Indian army has pushed the LoC by a couple of hundred metres into POK in Mandhala area of Poonch (Hajira sector).

2) On India Today, Lt.General Hasnain revealed that the reason for Paki's attempting BAT action comprising of only SSG personnel in Naugam sector (Dec 30-31) was because during recent LoC firing, a serving Brigadier of Paki army was injured badly.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 03 Jan 2019 12:01

Excellent news... and we have Hallaled 2 pigs already in the new year.. that too SSG pigs... great way to start the year.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 03 Jan 2019 12:58

What does pushed LoC mean? We have captured their border posts?

This fits with the oft-repeated BRF formula of grabbing some small chunks after every major terror event

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 03 Jan 2019 18:43

krishna_krishna wrote:Guys two good news at beginning of the new year :

1)

Storm Leader @airassault71
18h18 hours ago
More
For the first time since 2001, Indian army has pushed the LoC by a couple of hundred metres into POK in Mandhala area of Poonch (Hajira sector).

2) On India Today, Lt.General Hasnain revealed that the reason for Paki's attempting BAT action comprising of only SSG personnel in Naugam sector (Dec 30-31) was because during recent LoC firing, a serving Brigadier of Paki army was injured badly.



While it is excellent I believe we are failing to examine the complete picture.

BAT action did not comprise of SSG commandos.
These were hard core militants that form part of the BAT Team.
Gen Hasnain and many others refuted that they were SSG commandos. I think we were a bit premature on the Indian media calling them SSG, I believe at best one of them wast.

The action to severely injure the Brigadier was taken to avenge the death of two our brave JCOs, Till I do not see 5 dead JCOs or jawans. I believe the score is against us.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 03 Jan 2019 18:52

Unfortunately PA does not value it's JCO or jawans. We need to hit their officer corp, where ever possible along with ones on the frontline. That is the only deterrent.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 04 Jan 2019 05:52

Agreed, but at the moment we have not even killed two jawans of theirs.
lets be patient. IA takes care of its own.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 12 Jan 2019 05:20

Army goes for emergency purchase of some advanced sniper rifles for troops deployed at LOC.

The Army has gone in for an emergency purchase of a very small number of advanced sniper rifles, with longer ranges as well as modern telescopic sights, for troops deployed along the Line of Control with Pakistan.

The new sniper rifles, Beretta’s .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT and Barrett’s .50-calibre M95 guns, which have an effective kill range from
1,500 to 1,800 metres, are being purchased under the Northern Army Command chief’s emergency financial powers
. “The rifles should arrive soon,”said an officer.

The larger “capital procurement” of 5,719 new 8.6mm sniper rifles to equip all the 382 infantry battalions in the over 12-lakh strong Army – each unit is authorized 10 sniper rifles – will however take another couple of years.

Sniping is posing a major operational challenge for Indian troops along the 778-km long LoC, with Pakistan Army soldiers equipped with modern Remington modular sniper rifles as well as better training, as was reported earlier by TOI.

Indian infantry soldiers, in contrast, are saddled with Russian-origin 7.62mm Dragunov semi-automatic sniper rifles, which have a “limited” kill range of 800-metre and a design vintage of the 1960s. In the absence of Picatinny rails, the Dragunov rifles are also incompatible with several modern essential accessories like magnification and sight systems.

The Army’s Para-Special Forces units, already equipped with advanced sniper rifles like Israeli Galil rifles, are now also getting some long-range Finnish Sako sniper rifles, which have a kill range of around 2,400-metre.

But it’s the infantry soldiers deployed along the LoC who desperately need new weapons, ranging from assault and sniper rifles to close-combat carbines and light machine guns.

Much more than the use of heavier weapons like mortars, light artillery and anti-tank guided missiles, effective sniper operations have a greater demoralizing effect on rival troops in the continuing hostilities and ceasefire violations along the LoC.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RKumar » 12 Jan 2019 13:51

I would have not alerted the otherside and would have let guns do the talking by taking out 10s of their officers to avenge the killings of our soldiers


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