India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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pankajs
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 20 Oct 2019 20:34

One area of action perhaps

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1185796897765642240
Indian Army has launched attacks on terrorist camps situated inside Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) opposite the Tangdhar sector. This is in retaliation to the support provided by Pakistan Army to push terrorists into Indian territory.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sudeepj » 20 Oct 2019 21:11

Chief is saying "we had the coordinates of the terror camps", perhaps they used Excalibur type guided shells?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 20 Oct 2019 21:12

Photus inside

https://twitter.com/rashidg56152938/sta ... 3817551872
Rashid Rabbani @rashidg56152938

Shame for you pakistani Media you with not tell about what happened in neelum Valley last night #NeelumValley

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby YashG » 20 Oct 2019 21:26

Deans wrote:Now for the usual suspects (already started with a Congi politician in Maharashtra) questioning the timing / asking for proof of strikes /saying Modiji is a warmonger / diverting attention from economy etc.


Whenever such thing happens, there is a lot of political noise and much debate. But I wonder if political noises shud be even the scope of BR threads. Political parties, what they say, what they boast or allege is so OT.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Deans » 20 Oct 2019 21:34

sudeepj wrote:Chief is saying "we had the coordinates of the terror camps", perhaps they used Excalibur type guided shells?


My understanding is that Excalibur can only be used on the M-777 howitzer.
IA does not need exact coordinates. Anyone in the vicinity of a terrorist launch pad in an almost uninhabited area is a legitimate target.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Deans » 20 Oct 2019 21:37

pankajs wrote:Photus inside

https://twitter.com/rashidg56152938/sta ... 3817551872
Rashid Rabbani @rashidg56152938

Shame for you pakistani Media you with not tell about what happened in neelum Valley last night #NeelumValley


Photos look like damage from a mortar shell, not a heavier caliber shell. May be part of Pak Psy-ops saying civilian areas were targeted.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Cain Marko » 20 Oct 2019 22:13

Mort Walker wrote:Baba is saying 3000 shells from Bofors 155mm artillery were fired. He also claims Pak will attempt to retaliate by artillery attack on IA Brigade HQ in Poonch district. That should happen tonight.

Can someone here please put a map or link of the area of concern?

Wonder if they will try something more drastic/belligerent - like an airstrike?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sudeepj » 20 Oct 2019 22:37

Deans wrote:
sudeepj wrote:Chief is saying "we had the coordinates of the terror camps", perhaps they used Excalibur type guided shells?


My understanding is that Excalibur can only be used on the M-777 howitzer.
IA does not need exact coordinates. Anyone in the vicinity of a terrorist launch pad in an almost uninhabited area is a legitimate target.


That does not make sense to me.. Once the projectile is programmed to go, there isnt any other communication between the shell and the gun. Its true that some 'qualification' of the electronics may be needed.. but fundamentally, it shouldnt be restricted to just one type of tube. Its possible the US would not sell us the shell unless we also bought the tube..

The next step for PakMil will be locate these camps in small villages, away from the larger cities but close enough to hold some civilian life as hostages. If they put the camps in larger cities, they will be exposed to FATF, and if in the middle of nowhere, they will be exposed to all kinds of strikes from the IA/IAF.. Wonder when IN will get into the game! :twisted:

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby mmasand » 20 Oct 2019 22:44

Deans wrote:


Photos look like damage from a mortar shell, not a heavier caliber shell. May be part of Pak Psy-ops saying civilian areas were targeted.


One of the other pics shared by a similar handle showed a mortar shell with POF markings :rotfl: . Now PA is firing on its own civilians.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem Kumar » 20 Oct 2019 23:43

I don't think Excalibur rounds were used. They can be used only with M777 & K9 - those regiments haven't been raised yet.

SS 3.0 is clearly the newfound confidence of the IA, given that they have MAD's full backing to hit the enemy hard. What a sea-change from mouse-mohan days when they had to go up the chain to even retaliate to beheadings.

The confidence also comes from the fact that we are getting our artillery story together finally. If the inductions go as scheduled, we will soon have a serious overmatch vis-a-vis the Pakis.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rohitvats » 21 Oct 2019 00:57

Read some claims that Pinaka has been used. Won't be surprised if it has been actually used.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Oct 2019 01:02

rohitvats wrote:Read some claims that Pinaka has been used. Won't be surprised if it has been actually used.


Where please? If true PA must be seriously hurt.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 21 Oct 2019 02:13

https://twitter.com/AMISHDEVGAN/status/ ... 6452318208
Amish Devgan @AMISHDEVGAN

भारत ने POK में कई आतंकी Launch Pad किये तबाह । भारतीय सेना ने 35 जैश और हिज़्बुल आतंकी मारे है । सबूत ‘Gang’ यह sources के हवाले से है ,35 या 30 पर मरें हैं आतंकी । जय हिंद
Image
Image
Image
Image

The image seem to suggest the location of the launch pads destroyed.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Oct 2019 02:29

Mort Walker wrote:
rohitvats wrote:Read some claims that Pinaka has been used. Won't be surprised if it has been actually used.


Where please? If true PA must be seriously hurt.


Vishnu Som is saying no Pinakas used.
https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 1540955136

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 21 Oct 2019 02:51

This is as it should have been from the very beginning i.e. A weaker power protesting the onslaught of the bigger power BUT CONgress had kept the natural order reversed against India!

Law and order or Rules are meant to protect the weak from the strong and not the reverse.

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1185864906270269440
Sidhant Sibal @sidhant
Pakistan summons acting Indian high commissioner
On CFV ...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vimal » 21 Oct 2019 04:15

Indian Army attacks terrorist Camps in Pok near LoC | NewsX
Seems like this attack was carried using mortars as the camps were pretty close to LOC.


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Oct 2019 04:49

^^^The images are from Pak and can’t be verified. All we know is that the Pinaka was not used and rumors of 155mm guns firing some 3000 rounds.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Anujan » 21 Oct 2019 05:03

3000 rounds seem to be off, no?

3000 rounds = 300 rounds per hour for 10 hours

If 10 guns were employed, they shot 30 rounds each, per hour, continuously for 10 hours, which is about

1 round every 2 minutes from 10 guns for 10 hours.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby morem » 21 Oct 2019 05:10

why assume only 10 guns though?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 21 Oct 2019 05:58

pankajs wrote:This is as it should have been from the very beginning i.e. A weaker power protesting the onslaught of the bigger power BUT CONgress had kept the natural order reversed against India!

Law and order or Rules are meant to protect the weak from the strong and not the reverse.

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1185864906270269440
Sidhant Sibal @sidhant
Pakistan summons acting Indian high commissioner
On CFV ...

Now things are in their natural order ... as they should have been from the very beginning.
https://twitter.com/MoIB_Official/statu ... 5842227201
Information Ministry @MoIB_Official

Prime Minister Imran Khan has strongly condemned the unprovoked firing by Indian security forces on the civilian population along the Line of Control.
Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Anujan » 21 Oct 2019 06:13

Most probably enough piglets gathered in forward posts, timing it to push jihadis in after FATF meeting was over and when mobiles etc beginning to have restrictions removed. On top of that block development elections are on 25th and the Jihadis are waging a concerted campaign to economically shutter the valley, by killing apple farmers and transporters.

So sensing the opportunities, piglets probably gathered in the launchpads.

Sensing that opportunity, IA probably went and gave them their 72 raisins

Hence all the squealing from the Pakis. This we can say for sure.

How many guns were used, what caliber etc etc trusting a anonymous twitter handle seems to be a bit of a stretch. All we can know for sure is that enough guns were used to generously distribute 72 raisins to everyone

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Philip » 21 Oct 2019 06:14

NewsX is giving a v.good live coverage of the attacks and ground situation with experts and former sr. IA officers who've served in the region.Maj.Gen.Bakshi too.

What appears to be our new policy is pro-active taking out of Paki launchpads unlike in earlier situs following up infiltrators. The Pakis are using their heavy arty too and are causing casualties on our side.The next level of neutralising Paki arty must be planned for using whatever weapon systems suit the purpose. If it also means snapping up POK territory to gain the ground advantage. The Paki gameplan is to locate these launcpads amidst civilian zones on their side and we are trying to take them out with the least collateral damage.

Gen.Bakshi is saying that 500 terrorists are waiting to infiltrate before winter sets in . They have also suffered
heavy casualties in the exchange of firing. Drones are being used in supplying arms , fake currency, etc. to elements in the Punjab. This is a disturbing development which needs to be countered at the earliest opportunity.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Oct 2019 08:26

Anujan wrote:3000 rounds seem to be off, no?

3000 rounds = 300 rounds per hour for 10 hours

If 10 guns were employed, they shot 30 rounds each, per hour, continuously for 10 hours, which is about

1 round every 2 minutes from 10 guns for 10 hours.


The 145 M777 from BAE Systems was concluded in mid 2016, and in 2017 some 25 were delivered to India and the rest are part of the Make In India initiative. That was 2 years ago and I'm sure those 120 remaining have been delivered. There is suppose to be a follow on order for 500 more as of late 2015, but I don't know if that option was exercised.

The Dhanush has an order by the IA for 114 guns. 18 in 2017, 36 in 2018, and 60 in 2019.

So there may well be nearly 250 new 155mm guns that IA has since 2015. . The IA needs at least 1000 more Dhanush in the next 3 years.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Kashi » 21 Oct 2019 08:46

Mort Walker wrote:Vishnu Som is saying no Pinakas used.
https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 1540955136


Based on his "sources". That does not constitute definitive knowledge.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 21 Oct 2019 11:04

Kashi wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Vishnu Som is saying no Pinakas used.
https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 1540955136


Based on his "sources". That does not constitute definitive knowledge.


Well, his claim is that it is the IA?

My army sources tell me no Pinaka rockets used in this attack at all ...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Kashi » 21 Oct 2019 12:36

Mort Walker wrote:
My army sources tell me no Pinaka rockets used in this attack at all ...


No evidence that the "source" is truly IA, only his word.

I am not claiming that Pinaka was deployed or otherwise, just that a journalist's tweet does not constitute definitive proof.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Guddu » 21 Oct 2019 17:42

Dainik Jagran newspaper says Pinaka used, photo at babas Twitter

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 21 Oct 2019 18:15

and pakis have set themselves for a trap..we can keep on pummeling them and they will say nothing happened..india can't do anything just saying random reverse things....

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SSridhar » 21 Oct 2019 18:40

One thing is for certain, though. They are getting a pasting.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Atmavik » 22 Oct 2019 00:33

ArjunPandit wrote:and pakis have set themselves for a trap..we can keep on pummeling them and they will say nothing happened..india can't do anything just saying random reverse things....


this is their political reality. TSPA can never publicly admit to any defeat or else amm abduls will make them eat grass. after Siachen Benazir showed bangles to Zia.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby YashG » 22 Oct 2019 01:47

Guddu wrote:Dainik Jagran newspaper says Pinaka used, photo at babas Twitter

MBRL are like the middle ground between the Shell based artillery and missile attacks. MBRL in that sense are escalatory and I would be hard pressed to believe that we would do that. Without a strong evidence, its very speculative and a wishful one at that.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 22 Oct 2019 02:10

More than being escalatory, MBRL not accurate as artillery shell. It is a large area weapon. Artillery shell can explode next to each other in the horizontal plane, MBRL fall more vertical, further away.

Moreover if the target is on mountain reverse slope, it is even more bad than artillery shell.

If Pinaka was used, it would been the guided rockets.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 Oct 2019 07:10

Atmavik wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:and pakis have set themselves for a trap..we can keep on pummeling them and they will say nothing happened..india can't do anything just saying random reverse things....


this is their political reality. TSPA can never publicly admit to any defeat or else amm abduls will make them eat grass. after Siachen Benazir showed bangles to Zia.
didn't she also asked him to wear vurqa

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Arun.prabhu » 22 Oct 2019 17:51

nam wrote:More than being escalatory, MBRL not accurate as artillery shell. It is a large area weapon. Artillery shell can explode next to each other in the horizontal plane, MBRL fall more vertical, further away.

Moreover if the target is on mountain reverse slope, it is even more bad than artillery shell.

If Pinaka was used, it would been the guided rockets.


Field testing is required to validate and refine doctrine. And since we'd already escalated to air strikes once, I don't think rocket artillery would be all the big an escalation and we do need to validate and refine doctrine...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby TushS » 22 Oct 2019 19:11


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sajaym » 22 Oct 2019 19:39

If this govt is serious about taking back POK then this is the way to do it...by keeping the LOC in turmoil, treating it just as a line which is not fixed but ever fluid.

For years India has adopted a Dharamraj Yudhistra policy of 'respecting the LOC' and adhereing to ceasefire agreements. Pakis have exploited this policy by disrespecting the LOC, violating ceasefire agreements and keeping it porous to foment terrorism in Kashmir & thereby increasing our cost of holding onto Kashmir. We gave them the chappal to hit our head with.

Now finally, we are doing it back to them. By hitting the chappal on their head at a time and place of our choice, we are now increasing their cost of holding onto POK. And eventually, they will give up -- they lack the resources & the average Pakjabi cares two hoots for the ethnic Kashmiri.

We need to keep up this pressure and keep violating the LOC as per our wish. The constant fire & counter fire will have the added benefit that civilians on both sides will move away from the LOC, this in turn will give us a bigger playground to play on and set the stage for the final game... takeover of POK!!

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Iyersan » 22 Oct 2019 20:36

The Government wont take over PoK soon. Its a multi pronged strat. Pakistan has to be forced to implode then take over. Economic warfare too

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby manoj_niketa » 22 Oct 2019 20:39

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 3640300555

What's reason for visit by Mr Kissinger

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby kit » 22 Oct 2019 21:19

Atmavik wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:and pakis have set themselves for a trap..we can keep on pummeling them and they will say nothing happened..india can't do anything just saying random reverse things....


this is their political reality. TSPA can never publicly admit to any defeat or else amm abduls will make them eat grass. after Siachen Benazir showed bangles to Zia.


at some point the offensives should be made to change the LOC in Indias favour ..some specific sites i think , the "militant launch pad" offensives need to be made into a tactical addvantage

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby JTull » 22 Oct 2019 22:36

manoj_niketa wrote:https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1186651593640300555 What's reason for visit by Mr Kissinger


PM Modi met members of JP Morgan International Council in New Delhi

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1186651373544173579?s=20


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