India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 26 May 2020 00:57

The current situation is a perfect example how our procurement, combined with IA's never ending trail process causes operational hole.

Paks are raving on SM about the current standoff. I am pretty sure PA jokers & politicans will get over excited and carry out a terror attack or increasing infiltration or artillery CF.

Now with the Chinese standoff, our artillery assets need to be in two places, specially the critical one: 155MM.

What is the number of 155MM guns we have? Specially towed that can be used in the mountains? Must be around 400
, if not less.

Our local producers are waiting, while IA & GoI take their own sweet time. OFB is producing them like ISRO rockets. 10 per year. If they have now time from their strike.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Philip » 26 May 2020 10:50

One report says that both sides are moving back their AVs. Some reduction in immediate tension may be happening at the locsl level,but the Chin strategy will not change at all. We have no alternative but to take immediate milware acquisitions, increase the defence budget hugely so that critical items can be bought,leased or ordered in the interim before our DPSUs deliver...at their usual pace.The second LCA sqd. will br inaugurated today.The first was with 2 aircraft! I wonder how many for the second.A former chief I think has said that HAL's production rate of 6/yr. was simply " unacceptable" to the IAF.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby yensoy » 26 May 2020 11:18

^^^^ Is that in Galwan river or Pangong Tso or north Sikkim or ...?

If it's Galwan river then it's a good thing for us because we will continue construction of the bridge as planned (we would have done so anyway, escalation or otherwise). In Pangong Tso we will back down to the ridge to the east of the ITBP sign and they will park on the west. I believe we needed them to stay there so they couldn't look directly into the northern end of the lake where we park our boats.

Yes their strategy will not change. We need to first and foremost build roads and fortifications till the end of our land, and man them credibly, so they can't do any more salami slicing. This is an even higher priority than any arms acquisitions. Better fences make better neighbours. There should not be a single border point where we are not looking into their eyes. The old style "no man's land" which could be visited by both and shared in time and space like electron orbits is no longer applicable.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sajaym » 26 May 2020 12:16

Philip wrote:One report says that both sides are moving back their AVs. Some reduction in immediate tension may be happening at the locsl level


Good to know. BRF members had been camped at the LAC for many days now, ready to attack into China. So hopefully we can also go back to other issues. :rotfl:

nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 26 May 2020 12:54

Our man has now increased the Chini force level to 10K. The goras are now very "concerned".

Looks like someone has been reading my suggestion to add masala and increase the count to 10K :rotfl:

Now our media will make more noise and hope the US ambassador in Delhi is watching the news. Few words from Trump about evil commies attacking "the free world" countries would spice up things.

We would be all set for being the victim, who has full right of self defence.

3000+ KM of LAC. Lot of places for India to improve it's "perception".

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby naruto » 26 May 2020 15:49

“ Enlightening piece by P Stobdan where he asserts Chinese Aim is to:
1. Push Indian control to west of Shyok river & south of Indus river, forcing India to accept both rivers as natural boundaries
2. Gain access to Chumar to threaten the Leh-Manali highway”

https://twitter.com/rahul_dhammi/status ... 16672?s=20

https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... ssion=true

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Yagnasri » 26 May 2020 17:32

If the neat uniforms and colourful parades are any indications then Chinese can beat the entire world with few of their female soldiers (models). :mrgreen:

Jokes apart - Wars were started many times before due to miscalculation of the leaderships. Somehow I seriously doubt Winne the Poo will miscalculate NM. Not after Doklam. But anyone makes some idiotic mistake when they are intoxicated with power. Further external war is an excellent way of diverting the issues at home. So war can not be ruled out.

If at all war happens, then it will be end of Chinese "peaceful rise". Almost everyone in Asia will start arming themselves to the teeth. Even Russia also. She knows that Chinese with their huge population and hunger for natural resources will come for their lands one day soon. So the war will be a major strategic defeat for China irrespective of the result.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 May 2020 17:48

TWITTER

@bhootnath
If what @ajaishukla is saying is correct then Chinese troops inside India would have consumed 150 tonnes of food and cooking fuel and around 100,000 litres of water, and I am only considering his initial count of 5000 soldiers. Can he corroborate this with images of logistics?


https://twitter.com/bhootnath/status/12 ... 16134?s=19

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Deans » 26 May 2020 18:07

manjgu wrote:
Philip wrote:According to media reports,70 of our troops were injured,some.v.seriously requiring medevac . This is not a friendly WWE "rumble and tumble",but a vicious criminal show of aggression by the Chinks, to overcome resistance to their relentless strategy of pushing back the borders in their favour.
.


the point is not if 70 of our boys got injured but how many did we injure... for me breaking of PLA majors nose was cool.. they must have gone back as badly battered / bruised... the story is still unfolding with more heresay than anything concrete....


I'm not sure if any of these so called media sources, have gone anywhere near the LAC, or can spend a day at Ultra high altitude. Unless the army confirms it, I would not believe any of these reports. Having seen Indian and Chinese soldiers on the LAC - ours look physically tougher, I'm sure the Chinese would not want to get physical, especially after the short dark rice eating Lt. literally gave a bloody nose to the PLA major.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby AdityaM » 26 May 2020 18:16

I wonder if the indian soldiers who have scuffled with the chinese have been screened for Covid.

wont be surprised if chinese purposely engineer a melee between infected patients in fatigues and our frontline troops

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Deans » 26 May 2020 18:32

Manish_Sharma wrote:TWITTER

@bhootnath
If what @ajaishukla is saying is correct then Chinese troops inside India would have consumed 150 tonnes of food and cooking fuel and around 100,000 litres of water, and I am only considering his initial count of 5000 soldiers. Can he corroborate this with images of logistics?


https://twitter.com/bhootnath/status/12 ... 16134?s=19


I'm surprised Ajay Shukla is being given so much coverage here. His agenda is known. Let's try to get the real facts.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 May 2020 18:56

^ all these facts collected here and read; gives ammunition to fight not only shukla but other leftist media crusaders too.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby schinnas » 26 May 2020 18:59

AdityaM wrote:I wonder if the indian soldiers who have scuffled with the chinese have been screened for Covid.

wont be surprised if chinese purposely engineer a melee between infected patients in fatigues and our frontline troops


Well two can play the game and we have enough supply of CRPF from Maharastra but it exposed our soldiers to the risk and is I'll advised.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 26 May 2020 19:10

^^^ Lol. Judging by how scared the chinis are of the second wave -- they are a trading nation but are now blocking flights from everywhere -- I should we can recruit a special caravan of some patriotic (but infected) rakshaks to wrestle with the chinis.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 26 May 2020 19:24

Deans wrote:I'm surprised Ajay Shukla is being given so much coverage here. His agenda is known. Let's try to get the real facts.


He is been feed with the numbers. Curiously enough IA/MoD has not denied his story, compared to the soldiers getting detained.

His masala is what has "highlighted" the incident quite a lot among the gora SM crowd.

No harm in showing the Chinis as aggressors..

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshan » 26 May 2020 19:43

For the record, Chinese are always aggressors. India's not showing them as such.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ldev » 26 May 2020 19:56

Nathan Ruser


@Nrg8000
Follow Follow @Nrg8000
More
In the last 2 days Ajai Shukla has increased his estimate of PLA soldiers on Indian soil by 5,000.
As of Friday, this was contradicted by satellite evidence. This is the current position of forces in the Galwan valley, with the LAC shown here from India's Ministry of Environment.

Image


@Nrg8000
Follow Follow @Nrg8000
More
As per the Indian Government's definition of the LAC, in the Galwan valley, China's most advanced position is right on the line. To be fair, the roughly platoon of PLA soldiers probably cross the line to pee, or walking around, but there are categorically not 10k soldiers there.*


Nathan Ruser

@Nrg8000
5h5 hours ago
More
When I say right on the line, I mean RIGHT ON THE LINE.

But you know the rules in Tennis...

Image

Manish_Sharma
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 May 2020 20:39

TWITTER
@Sjha1618

Since 2017, the PLAGF has been working to mitigate whatever positional disadvantages it has along the LAC (e.g Chumbi). Once infra is complete, new axes may open up for India in Ladakh. China can't move on Arunachal as long as India can mount a serious riposte elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/126 ... 25409?s=19
______________________

China is not acting to strengthen its bargaining position prior to the next round of special representative talks on boundary settlement. It has already moved to strengthen its *actual *position on the ground and is clearly digging in to consolidate gains.
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/126 ... 43200?s=19

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby suryag » 26 May 2020 21:48

Baba's latest tweets are ominous, kya faaltu neighbours we have ack thooo!! things are getting to a precarious point

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sankum » 26 May 2020 22:02

Both Pakistan and China have de facto autocratic dictatorship. India will never start a war. If China does Pakistan will sure join it. It will be holding operation against China and Pakistan will loose border territory. India will have to be ready with well defined objectives to be achieved with full force.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Cain Marko » 26 May 2020 22:05

nam wrote:[

Out primary air objective should to knock off the tankers & AWACS. We need very long range A2A or SAM. Hope someone has thought about a very long range version of NGARM or a Ramjet powered version.
.

We already have one deployed. At this juncture I'll leave it you to guess... And yes it is very, very long ranged.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 May 2020 22:07

I suspect His account will be taken down soon by twitter, so putting these here for posterity.

TWITTER

DrApr007:

#BREAKING : High level meeting with PM, DM, CDS , NSA & Tri Services Chief. All are mutually agreed to complete pending construction works along the LAC on priority including bridge on Galwan River. Befitting reply will be given to obstructor.
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 59712?s=19

Heavy movement of Pak Army along the LoC and IB in UT J&K. Heavy movement of PLA along the LAC in Ladakh. IA is ready to create a new history on both front.

We must prepare to support our army and repeat 1965, 1971, 1967, 1984 and 1999.

Now time to use ammun¡t¡0n before expiry
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 59555?s=19

Take the screen shot of this tweet. May be at that time I will not be available here.If armed clashes limited till Ladakh & J&K

"Red M0nkeys" will be on knees within 72 hours.

"S|a√es of Red M0nkeys" will be on knees within 48 hours.

Then ceasefire on intervention of UN.
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 00994?s=19

If armed clashes spread on entire Indo-China border & Indo-Pak border (Very rare possibility) than

World - 1 country = New World

....and India & China both in 1970
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 18785?s=19
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 26 May 2020 22:09, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sankum » 26 May 2020 22:08

If China attacks Ladakh India should quickly capture chumbi valley. We should fight to our advantage.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 26 May 2020 22:32

WOW!!!

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sankum » 26 May 2020 22:39

China final aim is Arunachal .Don't underestimate them.

nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 26 May 2020 22:49

Cain Marko wrote:
nam wrote:[

Out primary air objective should to knock off the tankers & AWACS. We need very long range A2A or SAM. Hope someone has thought about a very long range version of NGARM or a Ramjet powered version.
.

We already have one deployed. At this juncture I'll leave it you to guess... And yes it is very, very long ranged.


Brahmos A2A is not tested and required modified Su30 to carry them. The regular ones cannot carry it.

I thought we would have taken the threat from Chinese seriously and doubled down on long range SAM, BVR & artillery. 3 critical items for LAC.

We are exactly where were in 2017. MRSAM is in testing, no Astra deployed fleet wide yet. Artillery everyone knows. 3 years since Doklam.

Our adversaries will not wait for us to complete our programs on our sweet time. I seriously hope we don't another "we did not have long range BVR! when we go up against PL15.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 26 May 2020 22:53

How seriously should we take Dr.APR? Have the Pakis actually made a move?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 26 May 2020 23:11

chola wrote:How seriously should we take Dr.APR? Have the Pakis actually made a move?

Paks won't make any major moves.

A joint Sino Pak attack will first and foremost US sanctions on Pak. US will hardly keep quiet watching US kit being used in a war, supporting it's primary global adversary.

Those beggars fear US sanctions more than anything else.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mollick.R » 26 May 2020 23:11

Twitter


ANI Digital @ani_digital

"Unprofessional" Chinese Army used sticks, clubs with barbed wires and stones in face-off near Pangong Tso

Read @ANI story | https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 526124925/



https://twitter.com/ani_digital/status/1265187140989792256

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rakesh » 26 May 2020 23:19

Is there any particular reason of the Chinese' fascination with sticks and stones? At Doklam, they did the same thing. Do they not have troops trained on how to use their weapons?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 26 May 2020 23:26

Rakesh wrote:Is there any particular reason of the Chinese' fascination with sticks and stones? At Doklam, they did the same thing. Do they not have troops trained on how to use their weapons?

Kung fu. During Boxer Rebellion they charged Sepoys bare-handed (and chested) and going "hi yiiha" with punches and kicks. Hence the term "boxers."

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby madhu » 26 May 2020 23:28

Prepare for war’: China’s Xi Jinping tells army to thwart coronavirus impact on national security

Why dont we junk stupid concept of non alignment and sign a military deal with US to help during 2 front war? Just like indira gandhi did in 1971.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rakesh » 26 May 2020 23:29

chola wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Is there any particular reason of the Chinese' fascination with sticks and stones? At Doklam, they did the same thing. Do they not have troops trained on how to use their weapons?

Kung fu. During Boxer Rebellion they charged Sepoys bare-handed (and chested) and going "hi yiiha" with punches and kicks. Hence the term "boxers."

I meant that question in all seriousness. They "reportedly" have the superior military. What exactly is the hold up?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rakesh » 26 May 2020 23:30

madhu wrote:Prepare for war’: China’s Xi Jinping tells army to thwart coronavirus impact on national security

Why dont we junk stupid concept of non alignment and sign a military deal with US to help during 2 front war? Just like indira gandhi did in 1971.

Not going to happen. That is a bedtime story put forth by some on BRF. Just like the NaPaki bedtime story of how the Arabs are going to come rushing to the aid of Pakistan - in a conflict with India - because of the Muslim Ummah.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sanju » 26 May 2020 23:36

Rakesh wrote:
chola wrote:Kung fu. During Boxer Rebellion they charged Sepoys bare-handed (and chested) and going "hi yiiha" with punches and kicks. Hence the term "boxers."

I meant that question in all seriousness. They "reportedly" have the superior military. What exactly is the hold up?

Maybe the Chines know that they may not be able to deal with the Indian response. Dealing with Uighurs and HK is different from dealing with the Indians. They did the same with the Russians, till they got their musharaffs handed to them.

As Maj. (R) Arya, had said in his youtube discussion posted, since 1967, not one bullet has been fired between the soldiers of India and China. Gen. Sagat Singh taught them a lesson and it seems to have stood the test of time so far.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 26 May 2020 23:43

Rakesh wrote:
chola wrote:Kung fu. During Boxer Rebellion they charged Sepoys bare-handed (and chested) and going "hi yiiha" with punches and kicks. Hence the term "boxers."

I meant that question in all seriousness. They "reportedly" have the superior military. What exactly is the hold up?

They have the superior equipped military which doesn't amount to a whole of lot of beans when it comes to actual fighting.

They know that too which is why they haven't gone to war in four decades. Keeping things to sticks and stones lowers the chance of things turning kinetic.

They're buffaloes. A herbivorous species with scary looking weapons but still a cud-chewing plant eater nonetheless.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 26 May 2020 23:46

nam wrote:The current situation is a perfect example how our procurement, combined with IA's never ending trail process causes operational hole.

Paks are raving on SM about the current standoff. I am pretty sure PA jokers & politicans will get over excited and carry out a terror attack or increasing infiltration or artillery CF.

Now with the Chinese standoff, our artillery assets need to be in two places, specially the critical one: 155MM.

What is the number of 155MM guns we have? Specially towed that can be used in the mountains? Must be around 400
, if not less.

Our local producers are waiting, while IA & GoI take their own sweet time. OFB is producing them like ISRO rockets. 10 per year. If they have now time from their strike.


In the mountains it is the ULH that will play a crucial role. If push comes to shove the Americans have a lot of war surplus M777 so i do not think there is an issue with the number of guns we can/will have. More important will be do we have enough number of trained gunners to operate these?

Is the Kalyani ULH tested yet?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby gauravsh » 27 May 2020 00:14

Deans wrote:
Having seen Indian and Chinese soldiers on the LAC - ours look physically tougher, I'm sure the Chinese would not want to get physical, especially after the short dark rice eating Lt. literally gave a bloody nose to the PLA major.

Well looks do matter. I remember my cousin grew a huge moustache while fist fighting evil chinks in 2017. He told they were asked to grew moustache, apparently it scares them :D

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 27 May 2020 01:15

^^^ I believe we are underestimating their confidence in kung fu.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 27 May 2020 02:10

TWITTER
DrApr007

CDS & Chief of tri services submitted 2 blueprints in front of PM,NSA & Defence Minister in today's meeting over LAC & LoC tension.Both r strategic options.

I can't go in deep but befitting reply will b given to enemy for any misadventure.

..& yes,construction work has started.
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 83648?s=19


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