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India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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pankajs
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 27 Jun 2017 14:47

^
Agree. Indians have started showing up and that is causing khujli. The Chinese want India to de-facto accept a boundary as per their wish even before the settlement.

ashthor
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ashthor » 27 Jun 2017 16:27

Did we do a chinese checker on the chinese... :eek:

Varoon Shekhar
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 27 Jun 2017 16:49

India must counter the regimented, brainwashed, expansionist, imperialistic behaviour of China which is polluting the area and culture around the international border. Bhutan, Nepal and the Indian states in the NE must never fall under its sway.

sivab
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sivab » 27 Jun 2017 22:25

https://twitter.com/PTI_News/status/879718433180352513

Press Trust of India‏Verified account @PTI_News

After #Dokala area skirmish, Centre reviews situation along #SinoIndia border; Army, ITBP, home ministry officials in attendance

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 27 Jun 2017 23:58

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/pilgrim ... 340834.cms

BEIJING: China's foreign ministry on Tuesday held India responsible for the border stand-off in Sikkim , saying it was caused because "Indian border personnel trespassed the Chinese border to obstruct construction, so we have taken necessary action".
The ministry went a step further saying it would not allow pilgrims from India to visit Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, if the situation is not resolved.

Khalsa
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 28 Jun 2017 01:22

shiv wrote:Looks like we are going to see more and more incidents because the Chinese had got used to patrolling huge uncontrolled areas and seeing no Indians. Now they are seeing more and more. That is a good sign. After 70 years we seem to be putting men on the borders in some numbers. It is necessary.



BINGO
there lies Gentlemen, the bare bones strategy of countering chinese.
You have never patrolled, settled your people in that area.

For the Chinese its unoccupied land, they will encroach inch by inch.
Watch as they have nothing else to do but to blame us.

ArjunPandit
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 28 Jun 2017 01:44

Our action this time will define our determination and strength.
In all the earlier cases China had not so openly struck at our interests so openly: NSG, Masood Azhar, CPEC/OBOR(Ok it was always there). No matter whatever the conclusion is, we must put up a strong fight or double down and not blink. China is taking too many things for granted. How about we keep the weapons of their soldiers or just take their belts. That itself will eb a loss of face for these insects

krishna_krishna
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jun 2017 09:14

Gurkha Johnny after killing terrorists, warning graphic content :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXvp8HfUgPg

A Deshmukh
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby A Deshmukh » 28 Jun 2017 09:56

Hindustan Times - Army Chief
The army chief shrugged off reports of a recent skirmish between the Chinese People’s Liberation Army and Indian troops in Sikkim. “There was no incursion into our territory. I don’t know where the visuals are from, but they are not from Sikkim,” he said.

ashthor
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ashthor » 28 Jun 2017 10:12

standforindia.com/indian-army-pushed-chinese-army-back/

Indian Army pushed Chinese Army back & blocked 6 Chinese Spy spots, also captured 3 km of Chinese land too !!

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shiv » 28 Jun 2017 10:36

^^ "Chinese land?" wtf

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 28 Jun 2017 13:09

:evil: http://m.timesofindia.com/india/china-j ... 349072.cms

BEIJING: China has justified the construction of a road in the Sikkim sector, saying the area "undoubtedly" is located on its side of the border as per the 1890 Sino-British Treaty.
"According to the treaty, 'zhe' is the ancient name of Sikkim," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said in a statement.

According to chinese logic anything that has "ancient" chinese name or mention in some obscure text it belongs to china..soon they will claim moon as it was known by ancient name ding dong or something like that..

JTull
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby JTull » 28 Jun 2017 19:04

ashthor wrote:standforindia.com/indian-army-pushed-chinese-army-back/

Indian Army pushed Chinese Army back & blocked 6 Chinese Spy spots, also captured 3 km of Chinese land too !!


This website is useless. There's a news about 16 israeli planes being posted to Saudi last week to help the new crown prince prevent any trouble from the cousin who was kicked out.

ArjunPandit
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Jun 2017 02:33

DrRatnadip wrote:soon they will claim moon as it was known by ancient name ding dong or something like that..

As i said earlier, how we deal with this "standoff" will be very critical in determining if china will back off or will continue to needle us. For all we know, after waiting for action in NoKo, and Qatar, we might be seeing some action closer to home.

krishna_krishna
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishna_krishna » 29 Jun 2017 03:13

JTull wrote:
ashthor wrote:standforindia.com/indian-army-pushed-chinese-army-back/



This website is useless. There's a news about 16 israeli planes being posted to Saudi last week to help the new crown prince prevent any trouble from the cousin who was kicked out.


There might be some truth to it based on reports


DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 29 Jun 2017 08:22

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/chinas- ... 360027.cms

NEW DELHI: The Indian defence establishment is opposed to China's attempts to construct a road on the Doklam plateau leading right up to the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction, which has emerged as the major flashpoint in the ongoing face-off between the two armies in the remote border region.

the continuing stand-off has seen the two sides reinforce their positions with around 1,000 troops each. Senior Indian Army officers, including the general officer commanding of the 17 Division, are also camping in the region, with Army headquarters keeping a close watch on the "tense but under control situation".
Army chief Gen Bipin Rawat is himself slated to visit Sikkim on Thursday


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby g.sarkar » 29 Jun 2017 13:18

http://www.newsweek.com/china-accuses-i ... ion-629246
CHINA AND INDIA BORDER DISPUTE RAISES FEARS OF NEW ASIAN WAR
China has accused Indian border guards of crossing into its territory from the state of Sikkim on India's northeastern border with Tibet, the Chinese foreign and defence ministries have said, complicating an already difficult relationship.
Geng Shuang, a spokesman with China's foreign ministry, said Indian guards "obstructed normal activities" by Chinese forces on the border and called on India to withdraw immediately, according to a ministry statement late on Monday.
He urged India to respect China's territorial integrity and the border treaties signed by the two countries, and said China had already suspended official pilgrimages at the Nathu La Pass, which lies on the frontier between Sikkim state and Tibet.
A spokesman for the Indian Army declined to comment but said the army would issue a statement on Tuesday. India's defence ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Nathu La connects India to Hindu and Buddhist sites in the region and was the site of a fierce border clash between Chinese and Indian troops in 1967. China's Defence Ministry said in a separate statement India's military had obstructed work on a road, a move it described as seriously threatening peace on the border. "China is dedicated to developing bilateral relations, and will staunchly defend its legitimate rights," it said.
"China hopes India will meet it halfway, not do anything to complicate the border issues and jointly maintain the good momentum of relations," the defence ministry said. Ties between China and India have long been frosty as a result of long-term territorial disputes, as well as Beijing's support of Pakistan, and Indian leaders declined to attend China's "Belt and Road" summit aimed at boosting regional economic and political ties last month.
.....

Gautam

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 29 Jun 2017 14:28

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054029.shtml

The Doklam area belongs to China, not Bhutan and India, which has been proven by history and legal principle, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Lu Kang told a regular conference on Wednesday"China's road construction in Doklam area, which is our territory, is legitimate, and any other party has no right to interfere," Lu said.

Chinese are shouting their claim from bottom of scrotum.. We are trying to downplay it ..What might be reason behind it?

Aditya_V
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jun 2017 16:58

BRF gurus, is the area circled in red in Bhutan which is disputed as the chinese are trying to build a road through there like in 1959 through Askai Chin

Image

pankajs
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 29 Jun 2017 17:36

Same map but without the sat image

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@27.54758 ... 534196,12z

The Chinese road S204 makes a small incursion into Bhutanese territory as it comes down towards India. Seems likely a result of the terrain. Perhaps there is NO other sufficiently *stable* route and that makes the area highly prized by the Chinese.

This is again a guesswork given the lack of details. Someone, with access to Google Earth, can perhaps go into the land feature in this general area that make this place important for the Chinese. Why did the Chinese choose the Bhutanese side of the valley?

tsarkar
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby tsarkar » 29 Jun 2017 17:53

Typically militaries try to gain strategic advantage all the time - whether India at Saltoro Ridge in 1984 and Hathung La ridge in 1987

Eternal Vigilance is the price of liberty. Here is a previous incident where a show of resolve helped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Sino-Indian_skirmish

http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/Current ... ngh_260413

The 4057 km long Line of Actual Control (LAC) is the largest undemarcated and disputed land border in the world. It has the unique distinction of being the most 'peaceful' border with not a shot being fired over the last 46 years, save a standoff at Nathu La in 1967, when a display of resolve by the Indian Army prevented further escalation. However, there have been some serious incidents of escalation of tension between the two nuclear powered neighbours which were successfully diffused by a combination of adroit diplomacy, ‘show of force’ and political statesmanship. The most notable among these was the Somdurong Chu incident, sometimes called the Wangdung incident, in 1986-87 in the state of Arunachal Pradesh on the LAC.

On 26 June, 1986, the Government of India (GOI) lodged a formal protest with the Chinese government that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) had intruded in the Thandrong pasture on the banks of the Somdurong Chu (river) under the Zimithang circle of Tawang district. This was days before the seventh round of border talks which was due between the two countries. The area of intrusion, in the vicinity of the Thag La ridge, had seen bloody conflict in 1962. Considered neutral since 1962-63, it was not monitored till 1980. Patrolling resumed in 1981 and by the summer of 1984, India established a post in the area manned by the Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB), a para-military force , which was vacated in winters. On 16 June 1986, a patrol of 12 ASSAM regiment of the Indian Army noticed Chinese presence in the area and construction of a few permanent structures. The Chinese soldiers were initially identified to be 40 and were soon reinforced by 200 more troops. They were being maintained by mules along a seven km mule track. By August, they had constructed a helipad and were being air supplied.1

The GOI, made an offer to China to withdraw from the area with an understanding that India would not reoccupy the vacated area, the following summer. This was rejected by the Chinese. At the Seventh round of border talks that were held from 21-23 July 1986, despite the standoff, the issue was discussed “intensively” with no solution, resulting in acrimony and tension.2 Meanwhile, the Chinese 'dug in' to prepare to stay through the winter of 1986. The Indian Army then air lifted a Brigade from 5 Mountain Division to Zimithang and occupied the ridges dominating the Somdurong Chu. Deng Xiaoping took a tough stand and said that it was time to "teach India a lesson”, a message conveyed through the visiting US Secretary of Defence, Caspar Weinberger during a stopover at New Delhi from Beijing. Simultaneously, the PLA moved 20,000 troops of the 53 Group Army and 13 Group Army along with guns and helicopters. There were reports that unemployed Tibetan youth were recruited at RMB 300 per month, essentially for administrative duties.3 Tibetans also reported movement and mobilisation of PLA in the areas around Lhasa and parts of the Tibetan plateau. The Indian Army moved up to three divisions into the positions around Wangdung, maintaining them by air. In addition as many as ten divisions were mobilised to the Eastern sector with almost 50,000 troops in Arunachal Pradesh alone with substantial assets from the Indian Air Force. Simultaneously, the Indian Army conducted a massive air- land exercise called 'Chequerboard ' which commenced in October, 1986 and continued till March 1987. This was in conjunction with another major military exercise called ‘Brasstacks’ on the western borders. These exercises demonstrated the will and capability of the Indian armed forces to fight a war on both fronts.


What is different now is a three front war - terrorism in J&K - but we also have RR & CRPF coin grid in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chequerboard

The exercise involved 10 divisions of the Indian Army and several squadrons of the IAF and a redeployment of troops at several places in North East India. The Indian Army moved 3 divisions to positions around Wangdung, where they were supplied and maintained solely by air. These troop reinforcements were over and above the 50,000 troops already present across Arunachal Pradesh.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sid » 29 Jun 2017 17:55

In all of this halla gulla, India must not loose sight of protection for Bhutan's royal family. There is a high chance tactics similar to what were employed in Nepal or Maldives will be used in this region as well.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Philip » 29 Jun 2017 19:52

https://sputniknews.com/europe/20170629 ... na-border/
Xcpt:
India Beefs Up Military Presence Along Border With China
29.06.2017
Amid the stand-off with Chinese troops, the Indian Army has planned a massive build-up in Sikkim to counter any misadventures of Beijing. Sources said the Army will open several helicopter bases in Sikkim and nearby areas for housing Dhruv and Rudra helicopters to boost military strength in the region.

New Delhi (Sputnik) — Apart from the helicopter bases, the Indian Army has recently increased the number of troops in the region which is marked by Chinese authorities and experts for the ongoing stand-off. Indian Army chief General Bipin Rawat has reviewed the military preparedness in the areas for the second time in the last fortnight. On Thursday, General Rawat arrived in Sikkim to take stock of operations and interacted with top commanders in formation headquarters in the border state.

Troops of both the countries have been engaged in a major stand-off for a month at Doka La as China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) brought in construction equipment and set up labor camps for road construction. India sent reinforcements and deployed more troops in the region. In retaliation, the PLA destroyed two Indian bunkers in the Lalten area of Doka La sector.
"The incident is (part of) a policy continuum. China ensures that there is stability at the strategic level and keeps India engaged politically, diplomatically and militarily at the tactical level. It will be resolved in two weeks," Gurmeet Kanwal, distinguished fellow at the Delhi-based Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses, told Sputnik. :eek:

Meanwhile, China termed General Rawat's remarks that India is ready for a two-and-a-half front war "irresponsible". "Such rhetoric is extremely irresponsible. We hope that the particular person in the Indian Army could learn from history lessons and stop such clamoring for war," Col Wu Qian, the PLA spokesman, said on Thursday. General Rawat said that India is prepared for security threats posed by China, Pakistan as well as internal threats.


Yes,India has learnt from history lessons how the Viets thrashed the PLA when it invaded Vietnam,trying to be a "teacher"!

ArjunPandit
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Jun 2017 02:25

India China Deploy 3k troops: Popcorn time


sources said though there had been other troop standoffs at the tri-junction over the years, the latest one at the Doka La general area was clearly the most serious.


Undeterred by Beijing's aggressive posturing, India has made it clear that it will not allow China to construct a motorable road till the tri-junction through the Bhutanese territory of Doklam plateau


Good show by GoI and Army. Proactive of Rawat Sir to visit right on time

nam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 30 Jun 2017 03:08

From the photo give out by the chinees looks like they were trying to built a road to/on the ridgeline. Must be a plan to dig in on the ridge and force Bhutan to compromise.

It must be overlooking something important for us.

IA promptly moved on to the ridge. Now India needs to put out a press conference about Chinese salami tactics and India will guard Bhutans interest.

So now after making so much hula gula by the chinese, if they back down, there is a major loss of face. If India stands firm, then it will create an important impression of India coming to the aide of an ally.

The chinese had the option of quietly resolving it, but they choose to bully using PR. Either ways one of the country will be recipient of "teaching a lesson".


Iyersan
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Iyersan » 30 Jun 2017 11:05

Will there be a war? All scenarios point to Bhutan being the flashpoint

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jun 2017 11:37



From the article:

Modi, for example, has allowed China’s trade surplus with India to double on his watch to almost $60 billion.


Many people have been saying this repeatedly, we need to put a check on the trade with Cheen. As rididulous as our shrine bells are M.I.C. This has to stop, and the govt should promote Indian products, this will not only check our funding of Cheen but also help our SMEs. It's frustrating at lack of such strategic steps.

Aditya_V
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jun 2017 13:30

Well this cant be done overnight after 10 years of UPA buy China policies, it will take a few years before we catch up on electronics etc. The CHinese are also in short term stuff like bribing Indian shopkeepers to keep buying CHinese. They can do this for a few years but as long we begin to start getting our manufacturing in place we can get this in place.

UPA/ Congress have left us too far behind to solve these problems in 5 years, its 10-15 years timeline before we can fix these issues

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby schinnas » 30 Jun 2017 16:55

Government should make it mandatory to display country of make in all goods and use the government machinery to show its love towards shops that sell only china made products. If there is a concerted effort, there is a way. Most chinese goods sold to India are not electronics where there may not be other good choices.

It needs to be done urgently after GST rollout. It makes no sense to see our shops flooded with candles and diyas for Diwali that are made in China.

Even many sarees sold in India are of China origin, but the people do not know it. If the country of make is clearly called out, most Indians will avoid China made products if there is another reasonable alternative.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby abhik » 30 Jun 2017 17:05

There is no point blaming 10 years UPA rule for every thing, the current dispensation has not taken steps to stop this. There is a powerful lobby supporting Chinese imports including chota/mota bhai who use buy cheap power, telecom and other equipment from them.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby gaurav_w » 30 Jun 2017 17:50

I agree that trade needs to be put on the table as negotiating tool. But we need to selectively target and support own industry against Chinese protectionism.

if dev r forced to buy costly power equip u &I wud bear the cost of electricity not chita/Mota bhai. If u follow the recent renewable auction it's impossible for wind/solar power to be sold tht cheap without cheaper modules/ turbines etc.
We needed Chinese equip to become power surplus. Bhel simply didn't have capacity. And it wasn't even the case like LCA whr thy didn't have orders in numbers. And BTG is nt even some 4++ Gen tech.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rkhanna » 30 Jun 2017 17:51

^^ IMO we are over simplifying something by giving it nefarious overtones.

Alot of Chinese imports (by value) are inputs to our industry - Either Domestic supply cannot be matched on cost/quality basis or There is no domestic substitute and Western imports are just too expensive.

Stopping Chinese (or any for that matter) imports is a double edged sword.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jun 2017 17:58

^^ Oh really? Last I checked Cheen adds value to basic products from its neighboring countries such as Taiwan. There are not many things that Cheen give us that are of state of the art technology. And we are talking about simple products such as toys, bells, etc. Our products had reliability and longevity. For ex, small TN town of Dindigul was famous for its locks. Our people have same level of workmanship as them, as someone said, they have been good at keeping the right people happy to let their products in. Our govt has to be little protectionist just like them.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 30 Jun 2017 19:57

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/not-the ... 387725.cms

NEW DELHI: The India of 2017 is different from what it was in 1962, defence minister Arun Jaitley asserted on Friday, hitting out at China for asking the Indian Army to learn from "historical lessons".

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby williams » 30 Jun 2017 20:40

I think to inflict immediate pain, we should conduct a armored troop exercise in Gurudongmar area. IA has enough assets there to give PLA run for the money. We are being too soft with the Chinese.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SPattath » 30 Jun 2017 21:44

Karthik S wrote:


From the article:

Modi, for example, has allowed China’s trade surplus with India to double on his watch to almost $60 billion.


Many people have been saying this repeatedly, we need to put a check on the trade with Cheen. As rididulous as our shrine bells are M.I.C. This has to stop, and the govt should promote Indian products, this will not only check our funding of Cheen but also help our SMEs. It's frustrating at lack of such strategic steps.

RSS is launching a nationwide campaign to boycott Chinese products from Aug this year.

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 30 Jun 2017 22:22

williams wrote:I think to inflict immediate pain, we should conduct a armored troop exercise in Gurudongmar area. IA has enough assets there to give PLA run for the money. We are being too soft with the Chinese.


It feels very good to see firm responce to chinese nautanki.. It is pretty oppostie to MMS days..Escalating the situation is not going to do any good to chinese as well.. Risk of economic loss risk of loosing H n D is good enough deterent for chinese.. We seem to have clear goal in mind and we are unaffected by chinese psyops ..


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