India Border Watch: Security and Operations

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 06 Jun 2017 02:44

The Chinese border just might hot up.
the Chinese are defending their helis violation of our airspace as a routine patrol operations and showing their sheer recklessness.

Best way to counter another Heli patrol is to light up its flight path with ack ack guns. As 'warning' ofcourse.

'taking it up' with Beijing like Sh.Sushma Swaraj stated might only embolden these haramis. She was right in declaring the airspace violation as 'unacceptable'.
We must set our redlines and nip this right away before this becomes the norm.
A shooting down might be warranted if they do not pay heed to warning shots.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Jun 2017 02:46

No need to get violent, patrol for Aksai Chin with 15 Su 30s.

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 06 Jun 2017 03:45

manjgu wrote:as per TOI ..... NaPaki DGMO calling Indian DGMO...bhai bhahut ho gaya..itni g...d mat maro !!!!

Perhaps this is why...

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/commen ... 18105.html

It seems like the paki DGMO call was a pre-emptive move. Just goes to show the laser like focus they have on what goes on in India. Definitely must have felt intimidated not knowing what the IA top brass was up to in J&K.

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 06 Jun 2017 04:20

On our 500 and 2000 INR notes we should print"the whole of Kashmir belongs to india," It will be fun to see if they make fake notes, Or maybe they will, Sabse bada rupaya.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 06 Jun 2017 05:26

manjgu wrote:as per TOI ..... NaPaki DGMO calling Indian DGMO...bhai bhahut ho gaya..itni g...d mat maro !!!!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Jun 2017 06:40

sanjaykumar wrote:No need to get violent, patrol for Aksai Chin with 15 Su 30s.

15 Rambas and 15 Katarina.PHir Maanegi Haseena.

Chinese Heli violation trying 2 tell us not take reverse Kargil to logical conclusion? Gathering Army Brass in J & K and PM Modi's Daurra e 4 Mulaq
look so 71 ish.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jun 2017 07:01

I need to know which Chinese helo was spotted in Barahoti. Gives an idea of Chinese helo capability

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 06 Jun 2017 08:36

Bara Hoti is at an altitude of around 15000 feet.

A Deshmukh · Post by **A Deshmukh** » 06 Jun 2017 18:00

"40 years no bullet" might have emboldened them.
should shoot one down. past != future.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jun 2017 20:39

A Deshmukh wrote:"40 years no bullet" might have emboldened them.
should shoot one down. past != future.

No. This is by agreement. The agreement was reached during the Narasimha Rao days - and t currently planning the idea is to maintain the LAC as it is. If there are transgressions they will be settled by negotiation. As far as can be seen - China is not planning an invasion or a salami slicing. Neither Modi nor the army are stupid.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 07 Jun 2017 07:53

Chalo, what we always believed in is official now. https://www.dawn.com/news/1337974/numbe ... enate-told

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Jun 2017 11:42

X Post from the STFUP thread supplementing the above post by Yensoy.

Going by news that the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi Dominated Army of the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomentig Islamic Republic of Pakistan at the Line of Control (LoC) are refusing to disclose the extent of casualities inflicted by India to their own Parliament, our Indian Army iseems to be certainly delivering a very good pasting to the Uniformed Jihad’s at the Line of Control (LoC)

.

The the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomentig Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Minister of State for Power Abid Sher Ali, speaking on behalf of Defence Minister Khawaja Asif, said :

“Pakistan Army wants to withhold the information about the losses suffered by its troops due to security reasons’”

And went on to say;

“We have written to the GHQ for the details of our soldiers who have lost their lives serving along the LoC. However, the military authorities refused to share the details citing security concerns”

Bravo Indian Army for inflicting heavy casualities on the LoC pricking the aura of Mohammadden invicibility built up on hot air delusions by the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi Dominated Army of the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomentig Islamic Republic of Pakistan and therby forcing the Uniformed Jihadi’s to triggering a cover up.:

Army’s refusal to share LoC casualty stats irks Rabbani

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Jun 2017 12:20

my guess this question must have come from the relatives and villages who are seeing an unusual number of funerals taking place.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 07 Jun 2017 12:38

a) Pak Army refuses Parliament...and porkies tell us Pakistan is a democracy !!! b) maybe Pak Army cant count in excess of 2 digits? c) a true Mujahid does not die..he gets 72 virgins. d) someone told me a joke..Major Abdul gets killed at LOC and reaches heaven. he rings his frnd Lt Col. Mohammed Bin Quasim.. Abdul : Qasim bhai here we all are naked and we can have sex anytime.. no one stops us..Quasim: arey bhai ..this is so good..the koran was right about 72 virgins always available for sex .. tell me more about heaven Abdul : heaven..what heaven..i am a dog on karachi streets. Ameen

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 07 Jun 2017 12:44

i dont think this question is coming from relatives...why would a relative care how many are dying? its political... tussle between Nawaz and Army. the Army is being cornered by nawaz and co. because they do get to know the truth. There is Paki IB, local police all along the border/loc

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Jun 2017 13:16

The very fact that this question came up in Pak Parliament means that the damage caused on the other side has been too much for Pak army to control.

Secondly, if the casualties were say in the low double digits then Pak army would not have hesitated to publish the figures.

Clearly they have taken big hits since 2016. That's what compelled their dgmo to pick up the phone twice in 6ish months!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 07 Jun 2017 13:21

It means that the numbers are appreciably high for folks, political or otherwise, to notice .. and high enough to create a H&D problem for the Baki pigs.

Good job IA! and I am happy that the current GOI has given them a *freeier* hand in dealing with the pigs both internal and external.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 07 Jun 2017 19:42

FLOODLIGHTS INSTALLED ALONG BORDERS WITH PAKISTAN, BANGLADESH.

The government has floodlit 647 kilometers of the borders with Pakistan and Bangladesh to prevent terrorists and immigrants from infiltrating into Indian territory. The floodlighting of the 647-km-long stretches of the two international borders was completed in last one year, a Home Ministry official said.

It will help border guarding forces keep strict vigil in the forward areas and check attempts of infiltration by terrorists and illegal immigrants.

Projects worth Rs 5,188 crore were sanctioned by the central government in the last three years of which Rs 2,138 crore has been released for the Indo-Bangladesh and Indo-Pak border projects. These include erecting a fence in a 200-km area, constructing 430-km-long border roads, 110 composite border outposts and floodlighting the 647-km-long areas.

"A major push has been given by the government to border infrastructure and developmental works," the official said.

The total length of the Indo-Pak border is 3,323 km, including the Line of Control and the Actual Ground Position Line, while the Indo-Bangladesh border is 4,096 km long. The India-China border is 3,488 km long.

As regards to the India-China border, out of 27 border roads sanctioned in 2008, the construction of first eight roads was completed during 2014-16, while another nine roads are due to be completed by the end of the year.

The Home Ministry has also undertaken a new initiative for creation of model villages in border areas. More than Rs 92 crore has been released to seven states for development of 41 model villages, including 24 in Jammu and Kashmir.

To facilitate the border trade and passenger movement at land border crossings, the government has been promoting the setting up Integrated Check Posts (ICPs).

The ICP at Raxaul (Indo-Nepal border) was operationalised in June 2016 and at Jogbani in November. While the cargo terminal at the ICP, Petrapole (Indo-Bangladesh border) was inaugurated by prime ministers of India and Bangladesh in July last year, foundation stone for an ICP at Dawki in Meghalaya (Indo-Bangladesh border) was laid in January 2017.

In 2009, the central government had approved a proposal to construct additional 509 border out posts (BOPs) along the Indo-Pak and the Indo-Bangladesh borders at an estimated cost of Rs 1,832 crore.

In 2016, the scope of the project was revised by the Cabinet Committee on Security from 509 BOPs to 422 BOPs.

At present, there are 609 BOPs along the Indo-Pak border and an additional 126 BOPs are to be constructed to reduce the inter-BOP distance to 3.5 km.

There are 802 BOPs along the Indo-Bangladesh border where the additional 383 BOPs were to be constructed.

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Jun 2017 06:25

Bure din are here to stay for the TSP-ians:
Army Field Comdrs get powers to take decisions, go for kill

Significantly, sources said, the Army has empowered its Field Commanders deployed in forward locations along LoC to take decision on retaliation by heavy weapons to tackle infiltration attempts and ceasefire violations by Pakistan army and the militants.

Earlier, the powers to use heavy weapons were vested with top brass of the Army. However, as part of Central Government’s strategy to give free hand to Army, these powers have been vested with the Field Commanders, sources said, adding this would empower the Commanders and benefit Army a lot in taking on spot decisions to tackle infiltration by the militants, facilitated by Pakistan army, and ceasefire violations in the form of mortar shelling and firing.

Sources said this would help the troops to take pre-emptive measures like Krishna Ghati and Nowshera sectors, where they had destroyed Pakistani army’s posts and bunkers which were being used to facilitate infiltration attempts by the militants. They added that the Army would now target the forward posts and bunkers of Pakistan army from where intrusion bids by the militants were expected or the posts which target civilian areas with mortar shelling and firing during ceasefire violations.

Asserting that the Centre has given the Army a free hand to deal with the situation, sources said it has been made clear to the troops that they had to thwart infiltration attempts by the militants supported by Pakistan army at any cost.

“The tempo is up and the Army is going for the kill. There is no other way to deal with terrorists, who have gathered in large numbers at launching pads on Pakistan side of the LoC waiting for the infiltrations attempts. The approach is more aggressive and while engaging with terrorists, the latter have to be gunned down,” sources said.

While on one hand the Army is dealing with the militants in the Valley on the other it is hitting Pakistan posts by carrying out punitive fire assaults. These strikes have ensured that a number of terrorists have been wiped out. More importantly the posts that are hit strategically were the ones aiding infiltration of terrorists by providing cover fire.

“There is only one way to deal with the problem and that is with an iron hand. Army will now show Pakistan that it means business and that infiltration attempts by the militants, backed by Pakistani troops and mortar shelling on the civilians will no longer be tolerated,” sources said.
Union Finance Minister Arun Jaitley, who holds charge of the Defence Ministry had recently emphasized that the Indian Army was not only dominating the LoC but also applying pressure on militant cadres.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Jun 2017 07:27

Earlier, the powers to use heavy weapons were vested with top brass of the Army. However, as part of Central Government’s strategy to give free hand to Army, these powers have been vested with the Field Commanders, sources said, adding this would empower the Commanders and benefit Army a lot in taking on spot decisions to tackle infiltration by the militants, facilitated by Pakistan army, and ceasefire violations in the form of mortar shelling and firing.

Better late than never. But why did it take so long? I mean why were GoI and presumably the army top brass hesitant to grant this leeway to the field commanders until now?

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Jun 2017 07:41

^^ I guess it was some sort of uncontrolled escalation avoidance method( and in a way falling for the TSP-ian bluff and bully tactics) ?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 08 Jun 2017 08:48

More than that, we have given peace multiple chances, after swearing in ceremony, and pathankot. Pakis being pakis didnt get that MMS days are over and they can't get away with anything and everything. Now accounting is done dilligently and accounts are settled and on time.
if they dont mend their ways, prep for next is happening for long term

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Jun 2017 09:02

This is great news! Shows how much UPA castrated the Indian Army. Kudos to Modi & Jaitley!

That being said, Pakis are good at taqiyya. All it takes is for 1 peace overture from their side for us to take away this "delegation of authority". Hope Modi sarkar doesn't fall prey. I hope they are working towards an end-game (dismemberment) which should be carried out irrespective of what Pakistan does or does-not do.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 08 Jun 2017 09:40

Kashi ..this is been happening since times of Prithvi Raj Chauhan !! always allowed enemy to escape. Modi ji and Doval ji ..the great pragmatists should have implemented this from the day they were in the saddle...anyway better late then never. lets see how it pans out...

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Jun 2017 09:43

I can only assume that the delay in implementation may also be related to the state of preparedness of the forces and troops in the region. After all, what good is an aggressive posture without proper and adequate equipment and ammunition.

Edit: The article appears to have been removed from the website.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Jun 2017 11:00

Republic‏@republic
#BREAKING Infiltration bid foiled by Indian Army in Naugam sector. One Jawan martyred and three terrorists killed. Operations in progress.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 08 Jun 2017 11:23

manjgu wrote:Kashi ..this is been happening since times of Prithvi Raj Chauhan !! always allowed enemy to escape. Modi ji and Doval ji ..the great pragmatists should have implemented this from the day they were in the saddle...anyway better late then never. lets see how it pans out...

Yes civilisational lack of strategic clarity, very defensive govt policy and creeping defensiveness into the army because of this.

I have been asking for this for a long time. On the pak side coy commanders and Bn commanders can authorise heavy mortar fire and we had to go to GOC for permission. GOC has. 1 year stint (since 90s) due to the ravages of pay and position issues of armed forces so quite a few want to keep their head down and get out. If they authorise fire and things go wrong they are screwed and now since mid 2000 media was also going crazy. And then MMS PMO very explicitly gave guidelines not to do petty much anything. So many keep their head down and follow the mantra 'ek saal command Karo or niklo'.

I remember an incident a few years ago when a Corps Commander who up for posting as GOC n C was telling my dad that 'sir no one wants to go to Northern Command (as GOC n C).'

We have become too defensive and that will only change when we regularly make forays across LC with a clear end game in mind.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 08 Jun 2017 12:39

Kashi wrote:I can only assume that the delay in implementation may also be related to the state of preparedness of the forces and troops in the region. After all, what good is an aggressive posture without proper and adequate equipment and ammunition.

Edit: The article appears to have been removed from the website.

Emergency shopping for all sorts of things over the first two years anyone? Can't escalate without preparation.

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 08 Jun 2017 14:21

^^ Also the new regime needed to plant its roots into the system before they can do anything drastic. The existing system was totally hostile to the ideology of new the regime. Winning election and becoming PM takes only so far. You still need to infuse your own supportive staff, convert non-cooperative staff into cooperative as much as you can, remove totally non-cooperating entities, change the course of MSM significantly, make progress to show to aam junta, mark a good impression in the people's mind to even stand a chance to win the next election.

I would be wary of a man coming into the power and straightaway risks a war. That is the recipe for disaster.

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Jun 2017 15:20

I would be wary of a man coming into the power and straightaway risks a war. That is the recipe for disaster.

^^^++100

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 08 Jun 2017 16:37

Also, GOI and Army combine are progressively ramping up their response and consolidating before moving on:

2015: we will respond at time and place of choosing
2016: we will retaliate disproportionately
2017: we are dominating the LC and will be proactive

It is a gradual change in approach which requires stakeholders from PM down to MoD to command to company level be aligned and work in cohesion.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 08 Jun 2017 19:31

Seven militants killed as four Pakistan-aided infiltration bids foiled in 48 hours: Army

According to the statement, three militants were killed in the Naugam sector today, while four were killed in the Machhil sector yesterday.

The statement said that an anti-infiltration operation was in progress in Uri sector, while in Gurez, armed intruders ran back leaving rucksacks behind.

The Army statement said the intruders were being provided active support, including covering fire (heavy calibre artillery) by Pakistani army posts on the LoC to assist them to enter the Kashmir valley.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 08 Jun 2017 19:54

Pakis are so desperate that they are sending terrorists everyday only to die.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 08 Jun 2017 20:02

^^^

some of their posts are still talking...

Army deploys through-the-wall radar to spot terrorists

On more than one occasion, the army and the Special Operations Group of Jammu and Kashmir Police have had to return without engaging with terrorists despite specific intelligence inputs. Local informers later conveyed that the terrorists were hiding in a specially created false ceiling or an underground cavity in the same house that had been raided, said a senior official involved in the anti-militancy drive.

Progress considering that previously only NSG had these

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 09 Jun 2017 18:20

Infiltration bid foiled, 2 terrorists killed in Uri

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 09 Jun 2017 20:18

Republic‏@republic
Group of six terrorists recently infiltrated, killed by security forces at Gwalta area of Uri, Kashmir: SP Vaid, DGP, J&K

Count gone upto 6 now.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 09 Jun 2017 20:33

Though the neutralization of infiltrators appears to be operationally efficient, it may not enough at the strategic level.

If we just kill groups of 3, 4, or 6 terrorists at the time they are trying to infiltrate, we are still reacting to their control of the initiative.

For every 6 Pakis we dispatch during an infiltration attempt or BAT op at the LOC, we have to dispatch 18 or 24 uniformed Pakis sitting in camps several kms behind the LOC.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 09 Jun 2017 21:00

^^^ +1000

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 09 Jun 2017 21:26

Any Pakistani post in the vicinity of infiltration point should be destroyed by direct artillery fire.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 09 Jun 2017 22:51

Rudradev wrote:Though the neutralization of infiltrators appears to be operationally efficient, it may not enough at the strategic level.

If we just kill groups of 3, 4, or 6 terrorists at the time they are trying to infiltrate, we are still reacting to their control of the initiative.

For every 6 Pakis we dispatch during an infiltration attempt or BAT op at the LOC, we have to dispatch 18 or 24 uniformed Pakis sitting in camps several kms behind the LOC.

Inshiallah ! That is the only way. Wrest the initiative.