Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

India Border Watch: Security and Operations

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 303
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Iyersan » 03 Jul 2017 22:41

DrRatnadip wrote:meeting-on-cards-amid-border-face-off/articleshow/59427845.cms

BEIJING: Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese president Xi Jinping are expected to meet on Friday at an informal leaders' meeting of BRICS countries during the upcoming G20 Summit in Hamburg, Chinese vice foreign minister Li Baodong said.

De escalation will happen on Friday this week when NaMo meets Eleven in Germany

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3526
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Jul 2017 22:58

It is telling that India has not called off the meeting.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 03 Jul 2017 23:56

Modiji should deny meeting pingpong till construction of road is stopped..

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9526
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 04 Jul 2017 00:08

The same can be said about the Chinese not calling off the meeting.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 04 Jul 2017 00:12

https://www.dawn.com/news/1342973/isola ... artaj-aziz

Isolated India reaching out to US to pressurise China: Sartaj Aziz

India offering its services to the US to pressurise China is evidence of its isolation in the region, Prime Minister's Adviser on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz said Monday.

Faithful dog coming to help master .. I always wonder where this old man gets such high quality weed..

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3526
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Jul 2017 00:19

Even the Pakis must be laughing at this buzzard.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9526
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 04 Jul 2017 00:20

One has to remember that branding Salaudding as global terrorist was a public slap for Bakis and Kasmmiri *azadi* gang. This was neither a private message nor in coded language of *do more*. It was as public a humiliation as possible. The mirchi is still causing discomfort and hence the vomit.

How does the Baki establishment explain such a PUBLIC loss of H&D to the mango apduls? Bhell paint India a the lapdog of US. Ezy.

YashG
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby YashG » 04 Jul 2017 01:32

Aditya_V wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Fail to understand why do we want to show ourselves as the 100th descendant of gandhiji. With all his love for peace, in these matters we should demonstrate more firmness with words. If we dont have words to back up our actions what strength will be attributed to us.


There is no point in repeating 1962 where we went in unprepared. Here is it is better we equip ourselves properly first while keeping the pressure on the Chinese. It will be foolish for us to push for a war right now. The Chinese right now are testing all their neighbors to see who is the weakest and will attack them first. in 1962 we were the weakest and unprepared. They have tried to push South Korea and Japan, or attacking Taiwan- all options which bring US MIC and hence they have back stepped, the saw a weakness in us after 10 years of utter mismanagement but now realize that this is also becoming risky for them, Central Asian states and Russia are someone whom they don't want to take on as they dependent on weaponry from them. Vietnam understands the nature of the Chinese and is slowly arming themselves. Myanmmar is actign partly friendly while buying stuff from India and Russia to Hedge their bets. I somehow feel after testing all these nations they will feel Phillipines which has rebuffed the US as the least riskiest option and will show thier miltary might against them. We are right now target no.2.

Make no mistake the Chinese are itching for a fight to show their military powers and technology and bolster the average Chinese faith in the Communist party. They will take the least riskiest option. If the miltary balance was in thier favour Japan would have been the target.


Chinese aim is Asian hegemony. Their behavior can be somewhat explained by this.
The Chinese are currently truly confused about their Indian strategy. Whichever way you look at there is no way an Asian hegemony is possible with India contending China. Neither a war nor letting India its political space will solve that problem. Among all Chinese neighbours ( barring Russia) India has the largest landmass, Geographical depth & Military buildup that any war with India will be a foolish option. It will take them far far away not close to the aim of Asian hegemony. Islandic Japan, Korea or taiwan are geographically small countries. Supply chain of a war machinery, Strategic encirclements - all these bode better for smaller landmasses.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9103
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Jul 2017 12:07

True but Taiwan, S Korea and Japan have US umbrealla and the war will leave Shanghai and Beijing vulnerable, same problem with Vietnam. Thats why if our miltary capability is strong enough the Chinese will probably end of with a small ffight with the Philipines taking any island west of Philipine main island s.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 04 Jul 2017 15:09

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... im/748369/

China will have no choice but resort to “military” option if India “refuses to listen”, a Chinese expert has warned over the festering border row. “China is trying its best to use historical lessons to reason with India and show sincerity in peacefully solving the problem, but if India refuses to listen, then China would have no other choice than to use a military way of solving the problem,” Hu Zhiyong, a research fellow at the Shanghai Academy of Social Science, was quoted as saying by Global Times.
The state-run newspaper, on Monday, carried a report quoting “observers” that “there could be a chance of war if the recent conflict between China and India is not handled properly”. “India is provoking China because it wants to prove to the US it could contain China while Prime Minister Narendra Modi was in the US,” Hu said.

Chinese are giving not so subtle dhamki..I think Chinese were very sure that they will construct road in Bhutanese teritory without any problem.. Unexpected stiff resistance from IA is causing so much convulsions ..

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_66 ... 5054.shtml

official website of chini foreign ministry statement on issue
Q:: First, India's Ministry of External Affairs on Friday released a long statement on recent developments in the Doklam area, which is different from what was told by China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Statement said that India and China reached an understanding in 2012 that the boundary at the Sikkim section had not been finalized, and they reconfirmed their mutual agreement on the basis of the alignment. Further discussion on finalizing the boundary will take place under the Special Representatives framework. How do you respond to that? Second, Bhutan's Foreign Ministry also said that China had violated the Sino-Bhutanese Agreement on the Maintenance of Peace and Tranquility in the Border Areas (1998), accusing China of changing the status quo by constructing a road in the relevant area. I was just wondering if you have a response to that.

A: On your first question, since the Indian troops illegally trespassed the boundary, the Chinese foreign ministry and defense ministry have stated China's solemn stance on many occasions and lodged solemn representations with the Indian side. The truth is very clear. The Sikkim section of the China-India boundary has been defined by the Convention Between Great Britain and China Relating to Sikkim and Tibet (1890), and the Doklam area is located on the Chinese side north and east of the eastern end of the Sikkim sector. The Indian troops crossed the mutually recognized boundary into China's territory and obstructed Chinese border garrisons' normal activities. India's act has violated the historical convention on the boundary, breached international law and the basic norms governing international relations and severely damaged peace and tranquility along the border. We demand that the Indian side pull back the troops that crossed the boundary and created necessary conditions for the recovery of peace and tranquility in relevant areas.

As to the statement issued by India's Ministry of External Affairs last Friday, we have noted that this statement completely left out the Convention Between Great Britain and China Relating to Sikkim and Tibet (1890), none other than which clearly defined the China-India boundary alignment in areas where the incident happened. The agreement is a boundary convention jointly embraced by China and India, and the successive Indian administrations have confirmed it in writing on many occasions. As I just said, Prime Minister Nehru also confirmed this in his letters to Premier Zhou Enlai.
The current Indian administration even dares not mention this convention. No matter how the Indian side tries to evade, observing convention is a basic principle of international law, and abiding by the boundary convention is an international obligation India must fulfill.

At present, the Indian troops still illegally stay on China's territory and continuously infringe on China's territorial sovereignty. The Chinese side again demands that the Indian side bring back those border personnel who trespassed the boundary and conduct a thorough investigation into the case, respect the historical boundary convention and China's territorial sovereignty so as to uphold peace and tranquility in the Sikkim section of the China-India boundary.

On your second question, we have stressed many times that it is an indisputable fact that Doklam has always been part of China's territory and under its effective jurisdiction. China and Bhutan have held 24 rounds of boundary negotiations since they launched such talks in the 1980s. Though the boundary is yet to be demarcated officially, the two sides have basic consensus on the situation on the ground in the border areas and the boundary alignment. There is no disagreement on the fact that Doklam belongs to China.

China has strictly observed the mutual agreement between the two sides all along. The status quo of the boundary in the Doklam area is clear-cut and the area has always been under China's effective jurisdiction. There is no breach of agreement or damage to status quo by the Chinese side, which I believe is clear to the Bhutanese side. To conceal its illegal trespass, the Indian side has tried to distort the facts and even at the cost of Bhutan's independence and sovereignty in a bid to confound the right with the wrong, yet what it did is futile. China stands ready to work with the Bhutanese side to settle the boundary question through friendly negotiation without external interference and uphold peace and tranquility in the border areas.

Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1588
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 04 Jul 2017 18:12

What a bunch of pompous asses, and liars. Third rate Chinese government and Chinese media hectoring India.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2117
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby tsarkar » 04 Jul 2017 20:00

Why dont they start referring to the Simla Agreement of 1914?

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 04 Jul 2017 20:18

Chinese never agreed to Simla accord..They tend to agree with history favourable to them.. Historical mistakes by great Nehruji is going to haunt us for long it seems..

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6807
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby JE Menon » 04 Jul 2017 21:55

>>>There is no breach of agreement or damage to status quo by the Chinese side, which I believe is clear to the Bhutanese side. To conceal its illegal trespass, the Indian side has tried to distort the facts and even at the cost of Bhutan's independence and sovereignty in a bid to confound the right with the wrong, yet what it did is futile. China stands ready to work with the Bhutanese side to settle the boundary question through friendly negotiation without external interference and uphold peace and tranquility in the border areas.

The paragraph above exposes the Chinese situation. They did try to build a road into the area, but are fudging hence "which I believe is clear to the Bhutanese side"... Clearly it was not, which is why Bhutan has spoken in favour of India

"To conceal it's illegal trespass...at the cost of Bhutan's independence and sovereignty" ... a weird formulation, again considering that Bhutan has very clearly supported the Indian position

"China stands ready to work with the Bhutanese side to settle the boundary question through friendly negotiation without external interference"... in other words, the bilateral guidance agreement with Bhutan notwithstanding, the little country should accept the Chinese action without getting India involved in it, so that the salami slicing can continue.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 04 Jul 2017 22:01

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/ball-is ... 443611.cms

'Ball is in India's court': China says Doklam situation 'grave', rules out compromise

NEW DELHI: China on Tuesday ruled out a compromise in the military standoff with India in the Sikkim section, and put the onus on New Delhi to resolve the "grave" situation.
In unusually blunt remarks, China's ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui said "the ball is in India's court" and it was for the Indian government to decide what options could be on the table to resolve the standoff.

Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 303
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Iyersan » 04 Jul 2017 22:28

DrRatnadip wrote:http://m.timesofindia.com/india/ball-is-in-indias-court-china-says-doklam-situation-grave-rules-out-compromise/articleshow/59443611.cms

'Ball is in India's court': China says Doklam situation 'grave', rules out compromise

NEW DELHI: China on Tuesday ruled out a compromise in the military standoff with India in the Sikkim section, and put the onus on New Delhi to resolve the "grave" situation.
In unusually blunt remarks, China's ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui said "the ball is in India's court" and it was for the Indian government to decide what options could be on the table to resolve the standoff.

Let's prepare for a border war.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3526
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Jul 2017 23:14

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll........

YashG
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby YashG » 05 Jul 2017 01:08

China has great reality distortion lens!
Their international positions are most hypocritical among all major superpowers. They invoke a 'rule based' international order selectively (rule based for Indian candidature at NSG; Against 'rule based' UNCLOS in south china sea), treaty based (1890 accord but not 1914), free trade ( for their exports, not for foreign companies doing busines sin China).

I think we need some new ideas in Indial strategic space when dealing with China. The more we confuse them ( because they continually try to do that themselves - like the laddakh standoff right when Chinese premier was in India. Indian press was confused what does that mean? )
The more we confuse them, the more the inchonerency of Chinese foreign policy can be exposed. They will not go to war with us. If Indians stop their dhoti-shiver, they will stop invoking war threats - because they cant impose one.

In a war with India - there is good chance that India may come on top - unless Pakis play spoil-sport. But post a war with India - there is every chance that China's neighbours would want to finish of Chinese. Imagine a war reconstruction market of the size of India & China - that Japan or SKorea can supply to!

While it may sound counter-intuitive but if a war was planned - Russia may still be a greater friend of India than US. When Russia occupied crimea - India was among the only two superpowers who didnt criticise Russia. In a global order ( Russia still doesnt trust China.Yes they have that trust problem, Putin knows that well) Russia still has a friend in India other than China. The Russia - China - Pakistan axis is a marriage of convenience not of choice.

The fact is that a powerful China is no one's choice while a powerful India will be no one's headache.

pattnayak
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pattnayak » 05 Jul 2017 01:28

Reading all these editorials from Global Times and other Chinese mouth-pieces, I am astonished at the level of Chinese scholars' understanding of India. "If we push on sensitive border, India will join CPEC/OBOR", "India did this to show US it can contain India', "India is not on the same level as China, so it will not stand up to us, we will teach them a lesson". Is this really what they think? Do they really think India is trying to curry favors with India and not securing its on territorial integrity?

I am really confused. I hope there are some Chinese policy experts who know why India is doing what its doing.

YashG
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby YashG » 05 Jul 2017 01:33

pattnayak wrote:Reading all these editorials from Global Times and other Chinese mouth-pieces, I am astonished at the level of Chinese scholars' understanding of India. "If we push on sensitive border, India will join CPEC/OBOR", "India did this to show US it can contain India', "India is not on the same level as China, so it will not stand up to us, we will teach them a lesson". Is this really what they think? Do they really think India is trying to curry favors with India and not securing its on territorial integrity?

I am really confused. I hope there are some Chinese policy experts who know why India is doing what its doing.


Well thats exactly what I think they do - create a confusing smokescreen about their real intentions. And thats what I suggested in my last post. If we confuse them too - creative ideas in strategic space - they will pull out their hairs too. :D that would be funny.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 472
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Jul 2017 02:18

China is playing on three directions
1. Indian border
2. Hong Kong
3. NoKo with missiles
I see three possibilities
1. It will engage US/SoKo and Japan through NoKo and take some action on Indian front while using pakistan too
2. While keeping everyone guessing making a stride on Hong Kong(seems very unlikely)
3. Currying favor with Trumpanzee by curtailing NoKo and getting concessions on Indian border post some action

Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 743
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bart S » 05 Jul 2017 02:24

pattnayak wrote:Reading all these editorials from Global Times and other Chinese mouth-pieces, I am astonished at the level of Chinese scholars' understanding of India. "If we push on sensitive border, India will join CPEC/OBOR", "India did this to show US it can contain India', "India is not on the same level as China, so it will not stand up to us, we will teach them a lesson". Is this really what they think? Do they really think India is trying to curry favors with India and not securing its on territorial integrity?

I am really confused. I hope there are some Chinese policy experts who know why India is doing what its doing.


They are basically just projecting their own behavior on to us, much like the Pakis. For example, Pakis have a hard time realizing that Indians do not treat them as their sworn enemy (unless really pushed) and do not try to undermine Pakistan just because it exists, for the simple reason that it is their behavior and they expect others to be the same.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 472
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Jul 2017 02:40

sanjaykumar wrote:It is telling that India has not called off the meeting.

1. It will be interesting to hear who brings this topic if this meeting happens in the first place.
2. So till the meeting less likely anything will happen

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4331
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby putnanja » 05 Jul 2017 07:17

China claiming sizeable Bhutan territory, Nehru told Zhu Enlai in letter

"It is not clear to us what exactly is the implication of your statement that the boundaries of Sikkim and Bhutan do not fall within the scope of the present discussion," Nehru wrote in a letter to his then Chinese counterpart Zhou Enlai on September 26, 1959.

"In fact, Chinese maps show sizable areas of Bhutan as part of Tibet," Nehru said in the letter accessed by PTI here.

In the lengthy letter highlighting India's stand on the boundary dispute, Nehru wrote that under treaty relationships with Bhutan, the Government of India is the only competent authority to take up with other Governments matters concerning Bhutan's external relations, and in fact it has taken up with China a number of matters on behalf of the Bhutan Government.

"The rectification of errors in Chinese maps regarding the boundary of Bhutan with Tibet is therefore a matter which has to be discussed along with the boundary of India with the Tibet region of China in the same sector," he wrote.
...
...
At the same time, he pointed out that "it is wrong to say that the frontier east of Bhutan as shown on Chinese maps is the traditional frontier. On the contrary, it is the McMahon Line which correctly represents the customary boundary in this area. The water-parting formed by the crest of the Himalayas is the natural frontier which was accepted for centuries as the boundary by the peoples on both sides."

...

brvarsh
BRFite
Posts: 123
Joined: 03 Mar 2011 20:29

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby brvarsh » 05 Jul 2017 08:14

If we follow this whole episode India has done really well and it played Chinese game fairly well that has taken China by surprise. China tried its yin/yan and thought India will fall for it, that it did not. Whoever is at the helm of this episode is well advised. It may not be 1962 or may be India or China are two different nations today but what China should be worried about before making irresponsible comment baazi that India is not under Nehru neither Nehrivian policies.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3526
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sanjaykumar » 05 Jul 2017 08:25

To me it looks like India has broken some unspoken rules. Very measuredly, witness Modi in travels whilst the Chinese are apoplectic. I believe this cannot be a de novo development and that India has got away with it previously and that is what China fears.

Further China as it escalates its rhetoric, may become trapped by its own immoderation. Vietnam Philippines Japan the US the security council and yes Pakistan are all watching. India is letting china escalate its crude threats and become itself a prisoner of its words.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 551
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby yensoy » 05 Jul 2017 09:01

Ambassador's intemperate statements seem to indicate that Indians are in control of some part of the disputed area and Chinese are trying to figure out how to revert to the earlier position where possibly they had free run of the territory. I am sure IA is expecting some offensive action from the Chinese, and is fully prepared for a local skirmish. If bullets are fired, that will be the end of the romantic notion of a peaceful border. It is entirely characteristic of the Chinese to fire and blame it on us.

This is a good opportunity for us to remind the Chinese (via well placed editorials) how IA fared in Siachen, Kargil and Sumdurong-chu.

Some threshold has been crossed and the rules of engagements have been realigned.

Prem Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 1985
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem Kumar » 05 Jul 2017 09:21

The Chinese are standing naked. Their false bravado, their "oh so great" Sun Tzu strategies & their "scholars/experts" are all coming to naught.

"Now what?" is the question.

My feel is that the Chinese will mobilize & treat this as an opportunity to play out a realistic war game. Measure their own mobilization times & measure India's. They will hope that, once India also ratchets up, someone (like Unkil or preferably Modi) will call for de-escalation. They will withdraw with their H&D hopefully intact. IOW, they will try an Op Parakram on us. Hopefully mobilization casualties will be minimal.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 05 Jul 2017 10:27

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054925.shtml

India will suffer worse losses than 1962 if it incites border clash
Source:Global Times Published: 2017/7/4 23:53:39

The face-off between Chinese and Indian troops in the Sikkim section of the Sino-Indian border seems to be escalating. The Indian military was quoted by Indian media as saying that more troops have been deployed there in a non-combative mode. Indian Defense Minister Arun Jaitley claimed that the India of 2017 is different from the India of 1962. Chief of Staff of the Indian Army, General Bipin Rawat, even said they are fully ready for a two-and-a-half front war - referring to China, Pakistan and internal security requirements.
Indian troops have trespassed over the China-Sikkim border, which is viewed as having already been demarcated, and is not a line of actual control. The Indian side has changed arguments several times, first claiming that "China intruded onto Indian territory," but later saying "there was no incursion into our territory," followed by the new excuse that India is helping Bhutan safeguard its territory. India is acting shamelessly before the international community.
.
.
.


The Chinese public is infuriated by India's provocation. We believe the Chinese People's Liberation Army is powerful enough to expel Indian troops out of Chinese territory.

We firmly believe that the face-off in the Donglang area will end up with the Indian troops in retreat. The Indian military can choose to return to its territory with dignity, or be kicked out of the area by Chinese soldiers.

Chinese got this wet dreaming virus from their najayaj relation with pakis..

Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 303
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Iyersan » 05 Jul 2017 10:37

DrRatnadip wrote:http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054925.shtml

India will suffer worse losses than 1962 if it incites border clash
Source:Global Times Published: 2017/7/4 23:53:39

The face-off between Chinese and Indian troops in the Sikkim section of the Sino-Indian border seems to be escalating. The Indian military was quoted by Indian media as saying that more troops have been deployed there in a non-combative mode. Indian Defense Minister Arun Jaitley claimed that the India of 2017 is different from the India of 1962. Chief of Staff of the Indian Army, General Bipin Rawat, even said they are fully ready for a two-and-a-half front war - referring to China, Pakistan and internal security requirements.
Indian troops have trespassed over the China-Sikkim border, which is viewed as having already been demarcated, and is not a line of actual control. The Indian side has changed arguments several times, first claiming that "China intruded onto Indian territory," but later saying "there was no incursion into our territory," followed by the new excuse that India is helping Bhutan safeguard its territory. India is acting shamelessly before the international community.
.
.
.


The Chinese public is infuriated by India's provocation. We believe the Chinese People's Liberation Army is powerful enough to expel Indian troops out of Chinese territory.

We firmly believe that the face-off in the Donglang area will end up with the Indian troops in retreat. The Indian military can choose to return to its territory with dignity, or be kicked out of the area by Chinese soldiers.

Chinese got this wet dreaming virus from their najayaj relation with pakis..


Too much time has passed. Even Vietnam kicked the Chinese arse. Indian soldiers are too tough for them. All the single children will be killed

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6551
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prasad » 05 Jul 2017 11:05

Surely all this utterly comical bluster can be nothing but false bluster to make us take them not seriously? Nobody would seriously write or worse, think stuff like this.

Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Marten » 05 Jul 2017 11:17

Prasad wrote:Surely all this utterly comical bluster can be nothing but false bluster to make us take them not seriously? Nobody would seriously write or worse, think stuff like this.

This is the perfect mad dog scenario. How does one know for sure?

Is the opponent juvenile, a genius, or simply a mad dog? In this scenario, they appear to be very sure of their capabilities despite not fighting any wars in the last three decades. They misunderstood Modi's statement about not firing a bullet in 40 years -- it is CHINA that has not fired a single bullet in any war. We have, and are actively implementing our lessons learned. One just has to see Col Rai's lecture at Bishop Cottons to understand how deep the lessons cut. Losing even 100 people is a massive blow. For an army of single children, it will be the loss or end of families or dynasties/lineages.

We understand this as a culture, but for China, with their innately tumultuous changes to society, perhaps losing a tenth of their population is not a big deal. Perhaps we will learn a lesson or two, but the whole point is that we will survive as we are, while the China that the world knows will undergo severe pain and emerge free from the PLA.

A war with India will liberate Cina, Tibet, and Hong Kong at the same time.

Akshay Kapoor
BRFite
Posts: 1008
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 05 Jul 2017 11:23

It will be unwise to dismiss this as bluster. It could be a statement of intent. We need to be prepared and stick to our position.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 05 Jul 2017 11:48

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054889.shtml

Chinese investors must wait and see on India opportunities following border tension

Chinese companies operating in India need to be alert and take precautions to avoid being hit by anti-Chinese sentiment following tensions on the border between the two countries.

In 2014, several Chinese nationals were killed and more than 100 others injured in anti-China riots in Vietnam after media reports said China fired water cannons at a Vietnamese vessel to frustrate moves by Hanoi to disturb China's normal resource extraction in the South China Sea.

Violent attacks against Chinese personnel and companies may happen in India if the two countries see even small-scale military tension at the border. Many people believe Indian nationalism led to the country's independence from British rule decades ago but now it is gradually evolving into an internal factor behind the anti-Chinese sentiment, which is fuelled by ethnic and religious factors. Last year, Shiv Sena activists openly burnt the Chinese flag on the streets, according to media reports, after India failed to gain entry to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) due to alleged opposition by China. Compared to the NSG membership, India's territorial issues can much more easily stir up local people's nationalistic feelings.


I can sense subtle dhoti shivering in above article about possible economic loss..

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054882.shtml
India has most to lose in border spats


Primarily, India intends to test how the US and Russia would react to its provocations.
Under the tenure of former US president Barack Obama, India's position in the US Asia-Pacific strategy was clear-cut, but it's become ambiguous after Donald Trump was elected. Therefore, India hopes to remind the US of its value in confronting China.

New Delhi also wants to weigh which is more important to Russia: China or itself. During his visit to Russia in early June, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi expressed his gratitude to his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin for the backing Russia provided to India for India's full membership at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), with no mention of China. Does Russia support India's accession to the SCO for the sake of common development, or for counterbalancing China? Modi may want to figure this out.

This article also underlines deep routed chines anxiety about major world powers uniting against it with help of India..

abhik
BRFite
Posts: 1990
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby abhik » 05 Jul 2017 13:13

Slowly this story is getting relegated to the inside pages of news papers/out of the news cycle here. Must be causing massive khujli to the supel power that in spite of making 1 dhamki per day the Indian are going back to regular programming instead of dhoti shibbering.

DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 05 Jul 2017 13:34

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/india-chin ... 93938.html

^^^chini version of Nathu La skirmish..

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9622
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 05 Jul 2017 13:35

^^ TSP should be the one doing the dhoti-shivering since this should show that the current govt/Indian policy cares two hoots for even their "biggest saviour" on whom they have put all their eggs and when turns go south for TSP w.r.t India, no one will be around to stop the Indian elephant from trampling and delivering a well deserved jhappad

vishal
BRFite
Posts: 327
Joined: 27 Feb 2002 12:31
Location: BOM/SIN

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishal » 05 Jul 2017 14:03

India-China face-off in Sikkim's Doklam area: Any escalation would be damaging for China

Extract: "Even in case of a bilateral face-off, India is not at all weak in defending its borders. Global Times never fails to remind India about 1962, but perhaps selectively ignores 1967 when the Indian army had humiliated Chinese forces and compelled them to retreat from the then independent Kingdom of Sikkim. China had intruded into the Royal Kingdom of Sikkim in 1967 claiming that its was a part of Tibet. The Indian army at the request of Sikkim's monarch entered Sikkim and forced the Chinese army out in a military exercise. Sikkim later merged with India in 1975, to which the Chinese didn't give recognition for decades.

The Indo-China border is in very difficult terrain with almost uninhabitable climatic conditions. Thus, a confrontation in such areas doesn't depend upon how strong fire power you have but rather on the determination of soldiers. That's why I think that China won't escalate this face-off into a full blown war.

But for now, it's time for a test of nerves. It's always said that a diplomat's bargaining power depends upon the strength of his nation's army. India is playing down the situation very carefully and meticulously."

We need to see more of these articles in the mainstream papers/sites as opposed to copy-paste jobs from Global Times.

abhik
BRFite
Posts: 1990
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby abhik » 05 Jul 2017 14:23

DrRatnadip wrote:http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1054889.shtml

Chinese investors must wait and see on India opportunities following border tension
...
I can sense subtle dhoti shivering in above article about possible economic loss..
...

IMO we need to implement a F*uck China Month of our own. We have very little to lose and everything to gain. The baniagiri/mba-giri chunkian theories on how we are the ultimate beneficiaries of the huge trade deficit with China also need to be discarded to the dustbin where it rightfully belongs.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1216
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby schinnas » 05 Jul 2017 15:22

We are not in any way beneficiary of trade deficit with China. We are big short term and long term losers. Our manufacturing base is lost for good and we are adding to the economic imbalance with China and adding to the pressure on foreign exchange reserves, which are currently held together only because of expat repatriations and low oil prices. Not sustainable at all.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests