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India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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fanne
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby fanne » 08 Jul 2017 20:38

btw all dawn and tsp links have viruses/worms/Trojan that your vanilla antivirus/spyware cannot detect. Visit at your own risk

nirav
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nirav » 08 Jul 2017 21:22

fanne wrote:btw all dawn and tsp links have viruses/worms/Trojan that your vanilla antivirus/spyware cannot detect. Visit at your own risk


I've gotten alerts on a Paki "defence forum".. never on dawn.. are you sure about this Saar ?

fanne
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby fanne » 08 Jul 2017 21:39

yup, the ones that they have are not on the charts

nirav
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nirav » 08 Jul 2017 21:46

fanne wrote:yup, the ones that they have are not on the charts


Solutions to disinfect bhi batayein Saar.

fanne
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby fanne » 08 Jul 2017 21:50

don't visit their site ever (seriously, there is nothing to read or gain), don't log in your computer as admin. Or have a throwaway or readily machine formatted laptop/tablet just for surfing and no personal/business use.

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 08 Jul 2017 22:22

Sid wrote:Why are we linking articles from "Dawn" and letting BRF contribute yo its traffic ? Isn't NDTV enough?

Got your point sir.. I do visit there sometimes to enjoy some paki misery.. :twisted:

nirav
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nirav » 09 Jul 2017 01:44

fanne wrote:don't visit their site ever (seriously, there is nothing to read or gain), don't log in your computer as admin. Or have a throwaway or readily machine formatted laptop/tablet just for surfing and no personal/business use.


Thank you Saar :)


arshyam
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby arshyam » 09 Jul 2017 09:12

^^ Too simplistic an analysis for BRF. But I guess it's okay for a forum like LinkedIn.


Guddu
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Guddu » 10 Jul 2017 08:24

Baki sites are posting videos that "Pakistan Army silences two Indian posts, kills four enemy soldiers", nothing in Indian media that I can find.

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 10 Jul 2017 18:54

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/army-re ... 529216.cms

Army rejects Pakistan military's claim of killing 4 Indian soldiers

ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI: The Army on Monday rejected Pakistan military's claim of killing four Indian soldiers during cross-border firing on Sunday, saying it had not suffered any casualties this month.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sanjayc » 10 Jul 2017 20:44

chola wrote:"Unlike the past," meaning even this small number of warplanes is a recent ability. Compared to literally hundreds of IAF aircraft spread across 33 airfields within striking range of the border. Our advantages are immense but meaningless if we are dhoti shivering too much in face of Cheen to actually wield them.


This means that Chinese air capability in 1962 in Tibet would have been zero. Nehru got conned by Americans and did not allow Indian air force to hit hard -- I doubt any Chinese aircraft would have been in the air to contest the battle. Air power would have turned the tide in 1962. But then, Nehru was a dumb retard forcefully foisted on the nation by Gandhi

chola
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 10 Jul 2017 20:58

sanjayc wrote:
chola wrote:"Unlike the past," meaning even this small number of warplanes is a recent ability. Compared to literally hundreds of IAF aircraft spread across 33 airfields within striking range of the border. Our advantages are immense but meaningless if we are dhoti shivering too much in face of Cheen to actually wield them.


This means that Chinese air capability in 1962 in Tibet would have been zero. Nehru got conned by Americans and did not allow Indian air force to hit hard -- I doubt any Chinese aircraft would have been in the air to contest the battle. Air power would have turned the tide in 1962. But then, Nehru was a dumb retard forcefully foisted on the nation by Gandhi



Can't blame the American for not using your own air force. Yes, the PRC had no air force in Tibet to speak of then.

In fact, the SYRE lizard army had worse logistics and an even more limited number of troops back then.

To be perfectly honest, the stories of them "human waving" us off the heights made no sense since we had a population just as large and far shorter lines of communications.

We should have "human waved" them off their ill-gotten gains after their unilateral ceasefire if need be. There is no possible answer except for unwarranted quaking underneath our lungis why we did not.

This can still be rectified today while we still own massive advantages along the border.

Aditya_V
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Jul 2017 22:52

sanjayc wrote:
chola wrote:"Unlike the past," meaning even this small number of warplanes is a recent ability. Compared to literally hundreds of IAF aircraft spread across 33 airfields within striking range of the border. Our advantages are immense but meaningless if we are dhoti shivering too much in face of Cheen to actually wield them.


This means that Chinese air capability in 1962 in Tibet would have been zero. Nehru got conned by Americans and did not allow Indian air force to hit hard -- I doubt any Chinese aircraft would have been in the air to contest the battle. Air power would have turned the tide in 1962. But then, Nehru was a dumb retard forcefully foisted on the nation by Gandhi


I am notsure if this in Urban Myth, Given the General Thimayya episode and INC distrust of the Army plus the way Krishna Menon Beauracrats and top leadership in the country were behaving, I think they wanted the Army cut down to size and didn't mind losing land where not a blade of grass grew- low self esteem means no coupe. It just fitted into his requirements. This Chinese bombing of cities CIA was just an excuse.

Gagan
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Gagan » 10 Jul 2017 22:54

Boss, even now chinese ability to project airpower in a border skirmish is not too great.
The few airfields they have are all vulnerable and will be taken out very quickly by India's airforce or missile forces, leaving them naked
In the current conflageration, their situation is militarily untenable in the chumbi valley. They are surrounded on three sides by indian/bhutanese forces, with a single road out of the valley to the remaining tibet. How secure is that road going to be hain ji, given that the bhutanese can see most of that road from their vantage points!

Bishwa
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bishwa » 11 Jul 2017 06:24

https://www.dawn.com/news/1344027/how-w ... at-the-loc

This is an interesting story on the impact on the Neelam Valley. Note the impact in the last year in particular.

The below is a story by BBC on the past impact on the Neelam Valley and the resistance to militant activity by their people.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24426555

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 12 Jul 2017 17:18

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/pakista ... 561540.cms


Pakistan violates ceasefire in J&K's Kupwara, 2 jawans martyred

NEW DELHI: Two jawans were martyred after Pakistan Army resorted to unprovoked firing along the Line of Control (LoC) in Keran sector in north Kashmir's Kupwara district on Wednesday, reported Times Now.
The incident comes a day after security forces cornered three Hizbul Mujahideen terrorists in central Kashmir's Budgam district. All three terrorists were killed on Wednesday in a long drawn out gun fight with security personnel.

Bishwa
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bishwa » 17 Jul 2017 08:44

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/spl-force ... ps-kill-5/

"At least 5 Pakistani soldiers were killed after Special Forces of Army targeted their vehicle along the Line of Control (LoC) in Furikiyan sector in district Kupwara today.Sources said that Special Forces of Army (Paras) targeted a Pakistani army vehicle on Neelam Valley road today. The vehicle that was targeted by the Special Forces fell into Kishan Ganga river called as Neelam river by Pakistan which is the LoC in the sector. They said five soldiers drowned in the river and one body has been recovered so far. “"

There is confirmation from Pakistani side too
https://www.dawn.com/news/1345695/4-pak ... ry-vehicle

sum
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 17 Jul 2017 09:39

^^ Wonder who were in this vehicle to be specifically targetted by SF? Mostly a pre-emptive strike on a BAT team

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Guddu » 17 Jul 2017 09:58

The name of Neelam valley seems to come up repeatedly, looks like we have an edge in that area.

Aditya_V
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Jul 2017 11:10

ANd what made the Pakis admit, must be some General Colnel level personal.

jayasimha
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby jayasimha » 17 Jul 2017 13:07

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
17-July-2017 12:13 IST
Pakistan calls for DGMO talks

DGMO level talks on behest of Pakistan’s DGMO was held on 17 Jul 17.

During the talks the Pak DGMO raised the issues of targeting of Pak Army troops which resulted in the death of four Pakistani soldiers and one civilian in Athmuqam Sector of Pakistan occupied Kashmir opposite Indian Keren Sector, Kupwara District.

Indian DGMO in response highlighted that all Cease Fire Violations were initiated by Pakistan Army and the Indian Army only responded appropriately to them. Apart from these, firing by Indian troops was initiated against armed intruders when attempting to infiltrate from close proximity of Pak posts along the Line of Control (LC).

DGMO also put across emphatically that the trend of infiltration along the LC continued with active support of Pak forward posts impacting peace and tranquillity along the LC and also the internal security situation. This was evident from continued attempts of sniping and targeting of our troops undertaken through cross border actions duly supported by Pakistani Army troops.

DGMO made it implicit that Indian Army reserved the right to retaliate appropriately to any incident of violation of ceasefire but is sincere in its effort of maintaining peace and tranquillity along the LC provided there was reciprocity.

Col Aman Anand

PRO (Army)

ArjunPandit
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Jul 2017 16:42

Guddu wrote:The name of Neelam valley seems to come up repeatedly, looks like we have an edge in that area.

I read ( dont remember where) that kargil was planned for also easing out pressure on Neelam valley, in addition to support for Siachen. neelam valley was secondary objective.

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 17 Jul 2017 16:51

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/1-jawan ... 629257.cms

1 jawan, 9-year-old girl killed in Pakistan's ceasefire violation at LoC


NEW DELHI: One Army soldier and a nine-year-old girl were killed on Monday as Pakistani troops shelled areas along the Line of Control (LoC) in Kashmir, even as India highlighted that all ceasefire violations thus far have been initiated by the Pakistani army.
In this latest violation, Naik Muddasar Ahmed from Jammu and Kashmir's Tral dstrict lost his life in Pakistani firing in the Rajouri sector.

Gyan
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Gyan » 17 Jul 2017 17:03

chola wrote:
sanjayc wrote:
This means that Chinese air capability in 1962 in Tibet would have been zero. Nehru got conned by Americans and did not allow Indian air force to hit hard -- I doubt any Chinese aircraft would have been in the air to contest the battle. Air power would have turned the tide in 1962. But then, Nehru was a dumb retard forcefully foisted on the nation by Gandhi



Can't blame the American for not using your own air force. Yes, the PRC had no air force in Tibet to speak of then.

In fact, the SYRE lizard army had worse logistics and an even more limited number of troops back then.

To be perfectly honest, the stories of them "human waving" us off the heights made no sense since we had a population just as large and far shorter lines of communications.

We should have "human waved" them off their ill-gotten gains after their unilateral ceasefire if need be. There is no possible answer except for unwarranted quaking underneath our lungis why we did not.

This can still be rectified today while we still own massive advantages along the border.


I have personally talked to persons who fought in Indo China war and they were opinion that there was complete panic in top echelons and retreating behind Ganga was under serious consideration/next step ??

rkirankr
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rkirankr » 17 Jul 2017 18:45

some duniya news on twitter reporting china fired rockets at Indian positions. Gaurav Arya has denied it happened

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 17 Jul 2017 19:33

More than the Chinese wanting to *teach India a lesson* it is the bakis who are eagerly waiting for China to give India a *muh tod jawab".

The Chinese are *supposed* to be conducting a live fire drill in the Tibet region. How far from that to firing at Indian positions? If we start relying in the bakis channels we are already doomed.
Last edited by pankajs on 17 Jul 2017 19:35, edited 1 time in total.

shiv
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shiv » 17 Jul 2017 19:34

The live fire exercise lasted all of 9 hours

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karthik S » 17 Jul 2017 19:39

I recall Maj Gen Bakshi saying when immediately after India gained independence, some english Lord went to meet JN to discuss about military. JN apparently replied: we don't need an army, we only need police to maintain internal L&O. Apparently even the english was dumbstruck at the reply.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 17 Jul 2017 19:46

BTW, a video of the exercise is in play all across the Indian media. I haven't watched it but I must compliment the Chinese. They surely know how to reach the India masses with their warning ... with the help of Indian media of course.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bala Vignesh » 17 Jul 2017 21:00

A really good write up on how a GOC handled the Chinese in Sikkim a few decades ago.http://karansinghrathore17.blogspot.com/2017/07/hanut-tales-how-general-hanut-singh.html

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sudeepj » 17 Jul 2017 21:34

Hanut Singh, Sagat Singh, Harbaksh Singh, J.F.R Jacob.. Sons of the soil delivered victories to India, but a different kind of general was promoted for PR purposes.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 18 Jul 2017 01:21

Karthik S wrote:I recall Maj Gen Bakshi saying when immediately after India gained independence, some english Lord went to meet JN to discuss about military. JN apparently replied: we don't need an army, we only need police to maintain internal L&O. Apparently even the english was dumbstruck at the reply.


No I believe you are quoting the thoughts of V K Krishna Menon
who believed the entire army should be turned into a Territorial Army that would turn up on the weekend.
In addition he theorised about afforestation of Rajasthan by the entire army equipped with shovels and spades and naturally tree saplings.

Karthik S
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karthik S » 18 Jul 2017 14:01

Khalsa wrote:
Karthik S wrote:I recall Maj Gen Bakshi saying when immediately after India gained independence, some english Lord went to meet JN to discuss about military. JN apparently replied: we don't need an army, we only need police to maintain internal L&O. Apparently even the english was dumbstruck at the reply.


No I believe you are quoting the thoughts of V K Krishna Menon
who believed the entire army should be turned into a Territorial Army that would turn up on the weekend.
In addition he theorised about afforestation of Rajasthan by the entire army equipped with shovels and spades and naturally tree saplings.


Nope, this what Maj Gen said. I recall it well.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bala Vignesh » 18 Jul 2017 14:19

Yup!! Nehru had said to Gen. Auchinleck, if memory serves me right!!!

Aditya_V
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Jul 2017 14:32

Chinese are heating up the media war, I somehow feel the Chinese are acting up for the Pakis since they can no longer bear the heat. We must strenghten our defensive position with respect to the Chinese and go all ut against Paki defences, since I think they seem to be down.

komal
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby komal » 18 Jul 2017 14:42

Khalsa wrote:
Karthik S wrote:I recall Maj Gen Bakshi saying when immediately after India gained independence, some english Lord went to meet JN to discuss about military. JN apparently replied: we don't need an army, we only need police to maintain internal L&O. Apparently even the english was dumbstruck at the reply.


No I believe you are quoting the thoughts of V K Krishna Menon
who believed the entire army should be turned into a Territorial Army that would turn up on the weekend.
In addition he theorised about afforestation of Rajasthan by the entire army equipped with shovels and spades and naturally tree saplings.


Apologize in advance to moderators for being off topic, but here is some additional information:

The Kashmir war saved the Indian Army from being scrapped, seems strange? Well, a biography of Major General AA “Jick” Rudra of the Indian Army by Major General DK “Monty” Palit claims so.

According to the book, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru blew his top when Lt General Sir Robert Lockhart, the first commander in chief of India took a strategic plan for a Government directive on defence policy.

“Shortly after independence, General Lockhart as the army chief took a strategic plan to the prime minister, asking for a government directive on the defence policy. He came back to Jick’s office shell-shocked. When asked what happened, he replied, The PM took one look at my paper and blew his top. ‘Rubbish! Total rubbish!’ he shouted. ‘We don’t need a defence plan. Our policy is ahimsa (non-violence). We foresee no military threats. Scrap the army! The police are good enough to meet our security needs’,” the Daily Times quotes the book as saying.[‘Nehru wanted army scrapped’]


http://varnam.org/2006/08/nehru_we_dont_need_a_defence_p/

Yagnasri
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Jul 2017 15:59

Bala Vignesh wrote:Yup!! Nehru had said to Gen. Auchinleck, if memory serves me right!!!


It the same story I also read. Krishna Menon has come into the picture later I guess.

DrRatnadip
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby DrRatnadip » 18 Jul 2017 21:48

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/pakista ... 649735.cms

Pakistan violates ceasefire in J&K's Nowgam, one jawan martyred

NEW DELHI: One Army jawan was martyred after Pakistan violated ceasefire along the LoC in Nowgam sector of Jammu and Kashmir's Kupwara district on Tuesday.
"The soldier was killed after being hit by a sniper fire from Pakistan side of the LoC," a defence source said.


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