India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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Mort Walker
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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Feb 2018 09:28

ramana wrote:
Indranil wrote:There are so many tales of bravery. But, for me this one takes the cake really! An unprepared 50 year old unarmed man taking on armed men half his age and saving his family. Doesn't get much better than this.



Think what he would have done with even a pistol.

I think Officers and Subedar rank JCOs should carry side arms in difficult postings like Jammu & Kashmir.

This death should not be in vain.


Exactly. In a place like J&K, small arms can make all the difference between lives lost or saved.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Feb 2018 10:01

I wish there is news on who supported those Jihadis to come in, the families of anyone who has helped them must be wiped out. I hope to read about some accidents.

And this calls for punitive strike I mean, not in a very strict timeline but there should be no limits, sinking a Paki sub, using one of the new 1500KG Russian airdropped bombs. There must some Paki Barraks in the Chamb/ Shakar Garh area, drop the bomb from Indian territory and then claim innocence. TTP/Taliban should be allowed to take credit.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Iyersan » 14 Feb 2018 16:31

Guddu wrote:So the raksha mantri says, there will be a response. Since they have openly said there will be a response, I suppose a surgical strike is not the planned response. So what kind of response might we expect ?. Might we consider taking out the JEM leaders?.If so how ?

I don't see NaMo reading out threats for the Surgical 2.0.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bart S » 14 Feb 2018 17:45

Khalsa wrote:
Sid wrote:
Better solution is to not allow any families in field postings. Temporary visits should be fine, but permanent family quarters in a field posting is big bulls eye for ultras. Families usually are given SF quarters until next posting.

Ideally we should not have any field positing on our own soil, but until that time we can only exercise caution.


Jammu is not field posting.
Its thriving city ... with schools and hospitals and tourists.
These terrorists are causing use to declare the summer capital of our state to be field.
really ?


It's close to the border and in a state that Pakis are determined to turn into (or have turned into) a war zone, with a state govt run by a hostile to India/forces and Paki-collaborating duo of local parties. Common sense applies.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2018 19:37

yensoy wrote:
milindc wrote:There is a massive effort to upgrade security in all bases. Seems priority is IAF. Tenders floated and work in progress.


The most impregnable physical defences are invariably infiltrated by the use of human weaknesses - bribery, coercion and insider subterfuge; these are the aspects which will need work once the physical work is done.



In that case why bother!
Adopt Congress path and just divert funds to private Swiss bank accounts.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2018 19:39

Guddu wrote:So the raksha mantri says, there will be a response. Since they have openly said there will be a response, I suppose a surgical strike is not the planned response. So what kind of response might we expect ?. Might we consider taking out the JEM leaders?.If so how ?


We may or may not know when if it happens.

What's the point of your post other than listing possible targets for Paki use?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Feb 2018 21:09

Iyersan wrote:
Guddu wrote:So the raksha mantri says, there will be a response. Since they have openly said there will be a response, I suppose a surgical strike is not the planned response. So what kind of response might we expect ?. Might we consider taking out the JEM leaders?.If so how ?

I don't see NaMo reading out threats for the Surgical 2.0.

There was no announcement (rightly so) at SS 1.0, not that I remember. Although there was a kadi ninda from Rajnath ji

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby yensoy » 14 Feb 2018 21:42

ramana wrote:
yensoy wrote:
The most impregnable physical defences are invariably infiltrated by the use of human weaknesses - bribery, coercion and insider subterfuge; these are the aspects which will need work once the physical work is done.


In that case why bother!
Adopt Congress path and just divert funds to private Swiss bank accounts.


Maybe you didn't read closely. I have bolded the part in my post which should address your concern.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby srin » 14 Feb 2018 22:28

Aditya_V wrote:I wish there is news on who supported those Jihadis to come in, the families of anyone who has helped them must be wiped out. I hope to read about some accidents.

And this calls for punitive strike I mean, not in a very strict timeline but there should be no limits, sinking a Paki sub, using one of the new 1500KG Russian airdropped bombs. There must some Paki Barraks in the Chamb/ Shakar Garh area, drop the bomb from Indian territory and then claim innocence. TTP/Taliban should be allowed to take credit.


+100
This attack seems to be one to bait the IA into another surgical strike for which presumably they are ready. I'm frustrated and angry and really sad for the lives that were lost. But also happy to wait for the real response, and hoping it is disproportionate and permanently damaging (sinking their sub would be a good one).

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Khalsa » 15 Feb 2018 02:28

Bart S wrote:
Khalsa wrote:
Jammu is not field posting.
Its thriving city ... with schools and hospitals and tourists.
These terrorists are causing use to declare the summer capital of our state to be field.
really ?


It's close to the border and in a state that Pakis are determined to turn into (or have turned into) a war zone, with a state govt run by a hostile to India/forces and Paki-collaborating duo of local parties. Common sense applies.


Next up cities that are close to the border and south of Jammu
Pathankot
Amritsar

Quick lets think about marking them as field postings too incase local party wins the elections and start spouting Khalistan stuff.

No sir No
What I am saying lets stop accepting the movement of what is the norm by Pakistan.
Pakistan made this normal, to have cantonments attacked by terrorsts.
in the 90s no terrorist local or phoren ever touch the base.

Now they go for the parliment.

What are you going to be okay with ?
When are you going to say enough

after they invade a young girls bedroom in Chennai ?


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ramana » 16 Feb 2018 01:35




Its like Ajit's Liquid Oxygen.
Ajit to Robert :
Isse liquid Oxygen mein daal do, liquid isse jeene nahin dega, oxygen marne dega...

Since they deny sending terrorists, they cant complain of pain.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Feb 2018 02:50

^^doesnt that defeat the entire purpose of hammering. They deny and go back to their business of training nanhe mujahids to wage jihad a/c the border. Not sure if that is the solution (as we have seen with the case of israel)

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2018 03:13

^^^^ Ever heard of the process of chick culling?

Go here ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_culling

This is the first line in that link above, "Chick culling is the process of killing newly hatched poultry for which the industry has no use."

When you sign up to be a mujahid against the Indian State, you have signed your death warrant. The Army will hunt you down and kill you. Whether you die tomorrow, next month or next year is inconsequential. As a mujahid, you obviously have found nothing else better to do in life. So it might as well end. Reduce your carbon footprint.

The hammering is not for the mujhaid. The hammering has to reach the Pak Army, which the Indian Army does beautifully well. But the Paks only understand the danda and thus danda it is.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rakesh » 16 Feb 2018 03:17

^^^^ Major Gaurav Arya (retd) puts it best....Gaddari Ki Saza, Maut Hai




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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Feb 2018 03:30

yes sir, i did and happen to see it tragically before i became vegetarian. The problem is that for pakistan there is little difference between uniformed and ununiformed jihadi whose objective is conquest of hindus (kashmir has become secondary) and they have huge supply for both. Afterall their population growth rate is not small for their base. But that is not my concern, my concern are sons of my nation dying on the border and within cities.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby keshavchandra » 16 Feb 2018 11:34

I have one query. Why IA not using the weapon location radars at LOC to locate the exact location to fire back with either mortaar or pinaka MBL. As this will be the right answer to Pakistan who is using ATGM now.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sid » 16 Feb 2018 11:46

keshavchandra wrote:I have one query. Why IA not using the weapon location radars at LOC to locate the exact location to fire back with either mortaar or pinaka MBL. As this will be the right answer to Pakistan who is using ATGM now.


WLR are helpful in detecting "indirect" fire, to locate a artillery battery.

ATGM are used in "direct" fire, in most of the cases they are being fired from a ridge as TOW are not man portable, and usually mounted on a jonga.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_P » 16 Feb 2018 12:22

ArjunPandit wrote:The problem is that for pakistan there is little difference between uniformed and ununiformed jihadi whose objective is conquest of hindus (kashmir has become secondary) and they have huge supply for both. Afterall their population growth rate is not small for their base.


Exactly. One part of our overall strategy need to focus solely on making the scum focus and act more on their internal divisions and reach a state of civil war (leading to dismemberment). Their internal divisions are so varied and virulent that one of the convenient ways (now perhaps the only way) for the uniformed jihadis to try and keep the kabilas on the leash has always been to put their focus on a convenient external enemy - kaafir India.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bart S » 16 Feb 2018 14:00

Sid wrote:
keshavchandra wrote:I have one query. Why IA not using the weapon location radars at LOC to locate the exact location to fire back with either mortaar or pinaka MBL. As this will be the right answer to Pakistan who is using ATGM now.


WLR are helpful in detecting "indirect" fire, to locate a artillery battery.

ATGM are used in "direct" fire, in most of the cases they are being fired from a ridge as TOW are not man portable, and usually mounted on a jonga.


We could use more drones (if we had them) to locate such vehicles before they fire and take them out preemptively.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Feb 2018 14:12

If you have seen the pics from FATA, what keeps the internal divisions away is the stick is only with the Paki armed forces which are brutal. Thats why Paki Army cannot admit casualties and loose faith with India. This would embolden he Pathans and Balochis.

Some major hit where Pakis will be forced to show casualties will make the folks that have the receiving end of Paki atrocities to hit back

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_P » 16 Feb 2018 14:49

Absolutely and hence we need to really up the ante. Big Khan might have his own priorities in FATA but balochistan should be made to burn very brightly

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby tsarkar » 16 Feb 2018 16:05

Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Ladakh arent disputed territory. Yet Pakistan cross border firing is directed at Jammu and not Muslim districts of Kashmir. This is a clear declaration of war - like Pearl Harbour. Muslim Kashmiris have ZERO rights over Jammu & Ladakh.

Infact the BJP is not respecting the mandate of Ladakhis and Dogras - possibly they could be made into separate states. Money is sucked by Kashmiris and Ladakhis get nothing.

One more point - since 2005 the military has been spending money for perimeter security on building grand gates with brass lettering and granite/sandstone facade that serve zero functional purpose.

The Generals and Admirals are at fault on this - the money for building grand gates is often diverted from building walls, that are often of lower quality because of lesser funds available.

The Grand Gates across military installations across India is a sheer waste of money.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sid » 16 Feb 2018 19:59

Bart S wrote:
Sid wrote:
WLR are helpful in detecting "indirect" fire, to locate a artillery battery.

ATGM are used in "direct" fire, in most of the cases they are being fired from a ridge as TOW are not man portable, and usually mounted on a jonga.


We could use more drones (if we had them) to locate such vehicles before they fire and take them out preemptively.


There is no way to preempt these attacks.

Although we may work on a land based CIWS to intercept such rounds, like artillery/mortal/rocket rounds. But placing such assets so that they can effectively cover multiple posts, and overlap each other, across the whole border will virtually bankrupt us.

Currently only thing we can do is to preemptively start fire assaults on most troubling sectors, to keep them pinned down.

But there is no conventional response to these attacks, it's a zillion dollar problem statement.


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby putnanja » 22 Feb 2018 23:34

Why India, Pakistan follow the 'no war, no peace' motto at the Line of Control

...
The tarpaulins were ripped off the man portable artillery: scope-mounted heavy sniping rifles, each firing a TV remote-sized bullet designed to explode inside an enemy bunker. Shoulder-fired rocket launchers, shooting out mineral water bottle-sized explosive shells designed to punch through tank armour. Heavy machine guns stripped from battle tanks whose dense armour-penetrating rounds could chew concrete.

Alpha post's battlements spat steel fire at 'festival'. One post collapsed in a cloud of smoke. A mission accomplished signal went back. An infiltration attempt by terrorists trying to sneak into the Kashmir Valley had been thwarted. A post had been punished. A point had been made. "Idhar toh hum hi hum hain (we rule this place)," guffaws a burly goggle-eyed Sikh JCO, his moustache waxed into spiky horns.
...
A terse warning of retribution followed from defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman. Six hours after her warning, Alpha Company is bearing the brunt of the Pakistani cease-fire violations (CFV). The bullets play out a staccato Morse code-like message over Rajouri. The young unshaven major at Alpha Company post crouches below a stone bastion cradling his black AK-47 rifle as if to read it. "They're telling us they are waiting," he grins. "They know we are coming." Retaliation for the Sunjuwan attack will come, as Sitharaman says, "in a time and place of our choosing." "We have options A, B and C?" a general counts on his fingers without naming them.
...
...
In an underground command post a few kilometres away ringed by steel nets designed to trap rockets, a soldier sits motionless before a bank of giant TV screens. The sets flicker with images from thermal imagers along the LoC. The battalion commander, a colonel, plays back a 'festival' transgression on his laptop. Five ghostly blobs captured by thermal sensors. Several bursts of gunfire from multiple directions. Two figures go down. More gunfire. Only two figures remain. The fifth bolts back towards PoK.

"We are proactive here, not reactive," the Colonel says, sipping steaming tea from a glass covered in a camouflage cloth sheath. "I have denied the enemy the freedom of movement. We have achieved moral ascendancy over him."
...
...
From the clouds of gunsmoke and the debris of collapsed border posts has emerged a new unnamed Indian army strategy to counter this proxy war, the coercive end of the Modi government's 'talks and terror can't go hand in hand' hard line with Pakistan. The 'proactive strategy', as one general calls it, is different from the earlier 'reactive strategy'-to retaliate only to specific incidents of fire. "Earlier, it was bullet for bullet," says a general in the Northern Command. "Now, it is a hundred rounds for every round he fires."
...
...
"It's very simple really," says a brigadier whose orders can rapidly deliver tonnes of ordnance across an 80 km LoC stretch. "Stop the terrorists," he says, shrugging and holding out his arms, "we'll stop the firing."
...
...
The army says the post-2016 proactive strategy is different. Not only have the curbs over trans-LoC operations been lifted, the volume of firepower too has gone up. There are now increasing fire assaults-light artillery and mortars designed to destroy posts along the Pakistan side. Alpha Company's secret weapon is an I-tank or Infantry-tank, a retired T-55 battle tank driven up to the LoC and used as a mobile pillbox, its 100 mm gun providing devastating direct fire.
...

"Loss of lives do not make a difference to the Pakistan army," says Ajai Sahni, executive director, Institute for Conflict Management, "unless there is something far more harmful you can do at the strategic level of the country or the army."
...
"We have brought Pakistan under sustained pressure. Give this strategy another year. Let's see how the Pakistan army copes with it," says the general in Northern Command. A dangerous game of 'chicken'. Whoever blinks first, it won't be the men of Alpha Company.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Ashokk » 22 Feb 2018 23:37

Indian Army destroys Pakistani post in J&K
JAMMU: The Indian Army on Thursday destroyed a Pakistani post along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir's Poonch district, sources said. The troops targeted the Pakistani post which was involved in a ceasefire violation in Mendhar sector of Poonch district, they said. No casualties have been reported so far, the sources added.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 23 Feb 2018 02:09

Another one bites the dust!

Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Feb 2018 10:24

the key we must still try and get retribution of Sunjuwan and other attacks, do not respect the LOC. Hopefully we will get some of thier Artillery, Tow carrying Jeeps and some Hino trucks full of uniformed Jihadis. there must be a sudden and merciless surge in Uniformed Jihadi casualties for them to temporarily deescalate

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sum » 23 Feb 2018 12:10

Will our public have the tolerance to accept the losses for the bodycount on our side when inevitable tit for tat wi happen in the multiple sectors where our position is very weak?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Feb 2018 12:25

I have the luxury of me and my family being 2000 km's from the front. But I think the public on the LOC has beign bearing the brunt of Paki policy for 2 years and will continue to be in danger till the Paki casualties mount to deescalate, like Operation Parakram. Right now it is whose will is stronger.

Back down now and they will come with some other provocation, and they will be prepared again. We need to start provoking them for some sort of temporary peace.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Feb 2018 18:26

The next 6 months might also be a good time to escalate as the Pakis are probably exhausting thier war wastage reserves and will need to conserve thier Forex for buying Ammo/ Missiles, raw materials used in thier ammunition.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 23 Feb 2018 19:10

The Saudi ATM machine is up again for the Pukis and the Chinese will also step in for them.There is talk on Puki talk shows of how the Chinese will help them with the $30 Billion shortfall in the next six months if IMF rejects its aid request.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 23 Feb 2018 19:44

Aditya G wrote:Another one bites the dust!


I can see a round coming down. Cannot make it if it mortar or a artillery shell.

It looks too powerful to be a mortar and is coming at an angle.There is another video where the entire post is blown up with a single round.

I am still of the belief we haven't used 155MM. May be 130MM?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 24 Feb 2018 00:46

nam wrote:
Aditya G wrote:Another one bites the dust!


I can see a round coming down. Cannot make it if it mortar or a artillery shell.

It looks too powerful to be a mortar and is coming at an angle.There is another video where the entire post is blown up with a single round.

I am still of the belief we haven't used 155MM. May be 130MM?


Honestly I don't see any inbound mortar round. Somebody ex-Army who has observed kinetic effects can comment better?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 24 Feb 2018 00:54

The first puf of smoke is on the top of the video. Moreover if mortar was used, there must be multiple rounds used to destroy the target. Unless it is a PG mortar. No one fires a single round.

So either a PG Mortar/artillery round.

The full video:

https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/966684912727179264

At 2:39, probably a tank round.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 24 Feb 2018 01:51

ATGMs unleashed

Image

Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2018 10:10

Yeah,Pak used a TOW missile against the FRG hut.

Its definitely an ATGM. Look at the range. 800m across the border.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Feb 2018 10:16

Hopefully some uniformed Jihadis are SHaheed, if they abondon some areas of LOC we should occupy them. We somehow get some of thier truck transports and those Jeep which act TOW launchers, have some way of knocking out their mortars/ artillery along the LOC.

I hope families of uniformed Jihadis losing thier lives are neglected and made destitute in Pakiland, will serve as good morale for the Pakis.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chetak » 25 Feb 2018 16:34

Tamil Nadu-Sri Lanka drug nexus: Something fishy about these fishermen


Tamil Nadu-Sri Lanka drug nexus: Something fishy about these fishermen

Written By: Vicky Nanjappa

Thursday, February 22, 2018,

The legendary movie Scarface opens with a scene where 1,000s of refugees from Cuba land into the United States. Antonio Montana played by the greatest actor of our times, Al Pacino is one among them. What follows is chaos and dark, dirty world of drugs.

Flashback, 2006.

There were 18,600 Tamil refugees who arrived at Rameswaram in Tamil Nadu. All were sent to special camps on the suspicion that they had links with the LTTE. Further, the probe revealed that many were drug co, Many refugees had become couriers and in the name of medicines and aid came the drugs. The modus operandi was busted and with the fall of the LTTE there was a lull.

Today not a single day passes by when an incident of drug smuggling is not reported. There is a sudden spike in the smuggling of ephedrine and in the first half of 2017 86 kilograms of ephedrine was seized. Further, there is an increase by 26 per cent in amphetamine seizures coupled with 115 kilograms of the heroin being picked up by the enforcement agencies.

The list is endless. The cartels bring in LSD, cocaine, cannabis, pseudoephedrine and Ketamine too in large quantities. The top route: Tamil Nadu has always been a transit point for smuggling.

The end of the civil war in Sri Lanka, the smuggling of drugs has increased. There is a great demand for heroin in Sri Lanka and smuggling has become easier thanks to the porous borders. Further, the proximity between Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka has made it a smugglers paradise. While at first, the couriers were the refugees, today it is the fishermen. Recently the Sri Lankan naval fleet apprehended six Indian fishermen and also seized a fishing boat on the charge that they were attempting to smuggle 13.5 kilograms of heroin. The men from the Nagapattinam area were nabbed and it was found that three of them did not even have proper identity cards. Sri Lanka has claimed that they have been regularly nabbing drug traffickers approaching the north waters posing as fishermen.

The international cartel:

The international cartel which is using Sri Lanka as a transhipment destination relies heavily on the fishermen. The heroin trade between India and Sri Lanka was established over a century back. While it continued, the LTTE too sources heroin from India and smuggled it into Sri Lanka where the domestic consumption is very high. The LTTE would use the funds for its activities. After the LTTE fell, the model is now being replicated by the international drug cartel. It was found that the cartel bribes the fishermen to smuggle the drugs.

An officer with the Narcotics Control Bureau told OneIndia that fishermen are today the favourite couriers of drugs for the cartel. The NCB official said that two-thirds of the heroin is being produced in Afghanistan. It is then brought into Pakistan following which the contraband is dropped off at Punjab. From there it is loaded into inter-state trucks and then supplied to the rest of the country. Most of the grade 3 heroine referred to as brown sugar lands in Ramnathpuram which is the closest sea link to Sri Lanka. It is then divided into smaller and larger quantities. While the larger quantity is taken to Sri Lanka through the sea route from Rameswaram, the smaller lot is packed off through the Chennai airport.

Hard to track:

Monitoring all the boats is no easy task. There are 100s of boats that venture out from Rameswaram and to check each one of them is no easy job. Most of the contraband is handed over to agents mid-sea by the fishermen. The problem is immense and even the Sri Lankan navy has managed to apprehend the fishermen only when there is very concrete information. This ideally means a large part of the contraband manages to reach its destination. Over the recent months, it has also been found that there is a very high demand for cannabis from Kerala. The cartels use a similar route to reach Sri Lanka. Statistics would show that 2,500 kilograms of cannabis and 180 kilograms of heroin have been seized in recent times.



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