India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 14 Apr 2020 23:10

Varoon Shekhar wrote:https://theprint.in/opinion/artillery-strikes-on-pakistan-will-only-bring-good-pr-for-impact-india-needs-more-balakots/400048/

He has a point...


Yes. I agree. India needs to retaliate in a manner Pakistan _cannot_ retaliate. They have artillery too. Slaughtering them by artillery might be good background noise, but they need to figure out a way to cut through the noise. Hope the right people are working on this.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 14 Apr 2020 23:17

Again India is doing what it's capable of, at this present time. It's not insignificant, and positively not something to dismiss so arrogantly and snidely as the writer has done.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby g.sarkar » 14 Apr 2020 23:54

Mort Walker wrote:
somdev wrote:Missing BabaBanaras

Unfortunately Baba went on ad infinitum. Lots of extemporaneous speaking. A few choice tweets with no reply to others would have been better.

Has Baba's account been hacked? It appears so from the posts.
Gautam

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby basant » 15 Apr 2020 14:04

g.sarkar wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Unfortunately Baba went on ad infinitum. Lots of extemporaneous speaking. A few choice tweets with no reply to others would have been better.

Has Baba's account been hacked? It appears so from the posts.
Gautam

Take it for what it's worth from another twitter post. :|

Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mollick.R » 20 Apr 2020 02:05

India carrying out targeted strikes on terror launch pads along LoC: Defence minister
PTI | Apr 19, 2020, 17:39 IST


NEW DELHI: Defence minister Rajnath Singh on Sunday said the Indian Army is carrying out "targeted strikes" on terror launch pads along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir and eliminating the Pakistani infiltrators before they cross over to the Indian side.

"As you would have gathered from the operations along the LoC (Line of Control) in the last two weeks, we are dominating the enemy through targeted intelligence based strikes on their launch pads and eliminating them before they set foot on Indian soil," Singh said.

Military sources said a number of terror launch pads along the Pakistani side of the LoC were destroyed by the Indian Army in the last few days.

India has been retaliating strongly to the Pakistani "misadventure" by targeting terror launch pads and ammunition storage across the LoC.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-carrying-out-targeted-strikes-on-terror-launch-pads-along-loc-defence-minister/articleshow/75234033.cms

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mollick.R » 20 Apr 2020 02:12

basant wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:Has Baba's account been hacked? It appears so from the posts.
Gautam

Take it for what it's worth from another twitter post. :|

Image



If this message by babajee is true, then my assumption was correct

Mollick.R wrote:
basant wrote:Hope so. I used to read the tweets daily. My guess is that it has to do with posting about hitting civilian buildings (like hotels!?). I wonder if that was the trigger.


I check his tweets every day several times a day.
Nope, to best of my understanding that was not the case. Some low level paki scum was trolling him. Babaji replied that "tu XYZ hai naa , son of XX, city this, street no this, house no this, father having a butcher shop at xyz market. Beta i got my source everywhere."

Then ISPR trolls mass reported his account citing twitter policy of disclosing sensitive personal information and this happened.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 20 Apr 2020 02:54

IMO if the goal is psyops the BabaBenaras twitter handle is a poor substitute for some ex-IA guy, who with a wink & a nod can do the same thing with much more credibility.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 20 Apr 2020 10:48

I am curious about something, people keep telling me that India is upgrading the ability to disproportionately punish Pakistan (beyond what is already happening) and it is a matter of a few years before this becomes noticeable - and hopefully changes Pakistani behavior.

I was wondering, what to watch out for. Are there any milestones for induction of equipment (or tactics), what new capabilities does it provide to punish Pakistan & what the impact on Pakistan this is expected to have.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Apr 2020 11:10

khan wrote:I am curious about something, people keep telling me that India is upgrading the ability to disproportionately punish Pakistan (beyond what is already happening) and it is a matter of a few years before this becomes noticeable - and hopefully changes Pakistani behavior.

I was wondering, what to watch out for. Are there any milestones for induction of equipment (or tactics), what new capabilities does it provide to punish Pakistan & what the impact on Pakistan this is expected to have.


You cannot absolutely change Pakistani Behaviour or strategic objectives, but there was a period 2003-05 where after Operation Parakram they were keeping a bit quite. Before the Government of the day messed it up.

Milestones are Planes, Artillery, missiles etc and even numbers of basic stuff, when you have lots of Anti material rifles, Motors, Swati radars, abundance of 155mm guns with Shells, Pinaka regiments, lots of sniper rifles and Pakis are getting hit more often and continuously they temporarily quiten down.

Even in Dec 2001 to June 2002 they suffered massive casualties along the LOC, they quietened down waiting for us to lower our guard. Keeping them off thier balance while working to increase our economic and miltary capability to decisively higher and outside parties think twice before helping them is the need of the hour.

Also small things like making Pakis abandon transports by weakening their railways, more Pakistanis doing Madrasa education and unable to understand/maths science to produce maintain equipment/guns all help, calculate accurate firing positions all help. It is this lack of education which hinders Arab Armed forces has helped the Israelis a lot.

But the attitude that a wall/ fence or Pakis will also us to be in peace is stupid, that is like Germans would have abandoned Nazism due to Maginot line.

There is no quick and easy solution for the Pakistani problem, but it clear most BIF forces concentrate over the Paki Punjabi elite and Army. Long term for Strategic safety we need Independent Baluchistan, Sharkargarh Bulge , Poonch Bulge, Neelum Vallyer, Gligit Baltistan, Thaprakar area of Sindh. We will still need to futher break the Pakis- while doing this we need continue to Develop Miltarily , have energy security, and Develop ourselves technologically/ Economically.

These things cannot be done in a day, in needs to continue over time without 2004-14 type handover of Government and resources to BIF processes.
Last edited by Aditya_V on 20 Apr 2020 11:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2020 11:32

khan wrote:I am curious about something, people keep telling me that India is upgrading the ability to disproportionately punish Pakistan (beyond what is already happening) and it is a matter of a few years before this becomes noticeable - and hopefully changes Pakistani behavior.

I was wondering, what to watch out for. Are there any milestones for induction of equipment (or tactics), what new capabilities does it provide to punish Pakistan & what the impact on Pakistan this is expected to have.


We are doing it but funding remains a challenge. Our social spend is soaking up a lot of the money.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bart S » 20 Apr 2020 12:22

I think that the biggest thing that we can do is ensure good governance, deal with law and order issues, extremism etc, and thereby make sure that we are growing to our potential. That in itself will ensure that the differential with Pakistan grows manifold, and any 'offensive defence' strategies will just be a force-multiplier.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby mody » 20 Apr 2020 15:56

As @Khan has been advocating, just the business as usual on the LoC, will not deter the pakis. For them, the uniformed Jihadis are just as expendable, as the ones without a uniform, just a little more expensive. In fact the PA even refuses to give the number of casualties that they suffer on the LoC, even to the government and the paki parliament. Perhaps a year or 2 ago, an MP had raised the question in the paki parliament and the PA simply refused to provide any numbers or any details, citing national security.

We have to start hitting the paki run terror camps, wherever they maybe in porkiland, as soon as they are detected and we have the solution to hit them. We need not even wait for any major terror attack to take place. Take the fight to the pakis and up the ante. The pakis would be anle to respond either by staging some large spectacular terror attacks or by the paki military hitting back in some symbolic operation.
The first case, would give India just another reason to hit back even harder against the paki military. In the second case, it would give Indian military an even bigger reason to hit back against the paki military. A low level simmering military to military conflict works in Indians favour, certainly more then the current low level unconventional conflict pitching the Indian military against cannon fodder.


The pakis will not stop, unless they really start getting hurt. The paki economy has been in the dumps but not for the military. They always get the best available. Killing cannon fodder uniformed or un-uniformed will not matter. Just see the disproportionate number of Indian military officers they we have lost over the last 30 years. We can boast that the officers in the Indian army lead from the front, but it does not mask the fact of the ind of losses that we have taken. How many paki middle level and higher level officers of the paki military have been killed in the same period? Officers of the rank above Captain. Unless we can up the ante, it will not change paki behaviour.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Gyan » 20 Apr 2020 18:05

Civilizational conflicts cannot be won by military power alone. We need to keep border hot but our main effort should be to inflict pain through Freedom Fighters of Pakistan.

We need to feed the beast so that we have 5 nana baby Pakistan, though I dont even mind a round ten.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Apr 2020 19:58

There's not one final solution to the pakistan problem.I think all have to be used to repay them with interest

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Lisa » 03 May 2020 18:16

I wrote this 2 + years ago, I repeat it again,

"The pukis process the initiative and are currently causing us misery. We are ONLY reactive. This policy is a failure. Period.

India must the the aggressor who is responsible for ALL ceasefire violations. We need to seize the initiative and the equilibrium must lie with us. Until then this thread will remain live."

and

"Forgive me but who cares! Strike further, strike deeper. Let them spend money and material in building up ALL of POK to make it safe. Let the whole of POK live in shelters and holes like rats. As long as their lives are not normal, we win.

Whilst they are in shelters, do what they themselves do, infiltrate POK, mine it, IED it and booby trap it. We have to exponentially impose a cost upon them. Kashmir has destroyed both their domestic and foreign policy and now in its cause we must force them to beggar their nation as well."

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karan M » 04 May 2020 00:47

Lisa, agree. No war was won by fighting it on our own ground 24/7. Bar Ranjit Singh and Shivaji, most of our great leaders/warriors seem to have internalized a defensive fight, and we are doing it as well.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Nihat » 04 May 2020 01:17

Lisa wrote:I wrote this 2 + years ago, I repeat it again,

"The pukis process the initiative and are currently causing us misery. We are ONLY reactive. This policy is a failure. Period.

India must the the aggressor who is responsible for ALL ceasefire violations. We need to seize the initiative and the equilibrium must lie with us. Until then this thread will remain live."

and

"Forgive me but who cares! Strike further, strike deeper. Let them spend money and material in building up ALL of POK to make it safe. Let the whole of POK live in shelters and holes like rats. As long as their lives are not normal, we win.

Whilst they are in shelters, do what they themselves do, infiltrate POK, mine it, IED it and booby trap it. We have to exponentially impose a cost upon them. Kashmir has destroyed both their domestic and foreign policy and now in its cause we must force them to beggar their nation as well."


If they hide behind civilians then we should hit those areas, with little to no remorse.

Is also a convenient way to drive a wedge between the populace and the army.

By all accounts we seem to fight with ethics and that's no way to win a war of attrition.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby basant » 04 May 2020 01:29

Tweets from Dr. APR. Action on LoC?
Dr. APR @drapr007
#BREAKING : Around 11 PM on 03 May 2020, IA fired dozens of rockets to target PA installations across the LoC .

#Place Unknown/Classified

Tribute to martyrs of #Handwara

Source: https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1257024514946449411

Dr. APR @drapr007
#BREAKING : All ADS in north and west India activated. Tri services are on high alert.The damage to the enemy is being assessed.

#Handwara

Source: https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1257026601696595968

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby fanne » 04 May 2020 02:58

Is drapr007 = baba?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby basant » 04 May 2020 03:05

fanne wrote:Is drapr007 = baba?

Not claimed by himself but said so by at least one other, probably PR Twitter handle. Style and language are different so far.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VinodTK » 04 May 2020 03:11

Karan M wrote:Lisa, agree. No war was won by fighting it on our own ground 24/7. Bar Ranjit Singh and Shivaji, most of our great leaders/warriors seem to have internalized a defensive fight, and we are doing it as well.

Defensive fight is not achieving the desired results
Islamic invasions of I India proves this point (always fought wars on Indian soil)
Other than USSR during WW II no country has won a war by defensive fight

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby somdev » 04 May 2020 03:12

Standoff engagement does not work against Pakistan. We need to see the tricolour flying in Sharda Peeth!

That will deliver a message. Under the garb of freedom struggle, crocodile tears for Kashmiri Muslims all Pakistan wants is landgrab and access to glacial heights to secure water resources for Pak Punjab downstream. Reclaiming what is lost even if partially will deliver the right message.

I want to see the unfinished chapter which my Uncle and his No.7 squadron RIAF mates started in 1947 being finished. It has been a long time since then.

Jai Hind!

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby fanne » 04 May 2020 07:50

basant wrote:
fanne wrote:Is drapr007 = baba?

Not claimed by himself but said so by at least one other, probably PR Twitter handle. Style and language are different so far.

funny you say that, I think language and style is a close match (unless a deliberate impersonation)

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 04 May 2020 07:59

The leftist cable by talking people to people contact and intelligence failure have put us in a doomed policy
.Its like your neighbor throughing stones and we are trying to catch it. Fight has to go accross the LOC IB. If we develop our MIC Pakistan will get the same fate which is brother country the 3rd Reich deserves. Pakistan that way is pure fascist nation.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby fanne » 04 May 2020 08:14

This rona dhona is not done. The current leadership has shown in the past that it will retaliate, and retaliate intelligently and appropriately. I have full faith that it is happening/will happen. This hai hai, all it does is put unnecessary pressure (if it does at all) on the leadership.
It is war, and no war in history has happened without any loss to the good guys. We will learn from and update sop, punish who sabotaged if (if it indeed was sabotaged) and extract our revenge. Revenge is best served cold, and best if it calculated to change something. For immediate effect, as report are coming in, they say border has not been this hot this year!!
IA is doing/will further do what is necessary.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aarvee » 04 May 2020 10:03

fanne wrote:funny you say that, I think language and style is a close match (unless a deliberate impersonation)


Yup, I think so too. talking about farming, katasraj and taunting dgispr. Fits the profile.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Prem » 04 May 2020 11:42

Indian MEA has asked Paki to vacate POK
https://twitter.com/PTI_News/status/125 ... 35392?s=20

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SidSoma » 04 May 2020 12:55

fanne wrote:This rona dhona is not done. The current leadership has shown in the past that it will retaliate, and retaliate intelligently and appropriately. I have full faith that it is happening/will happen. This hai hai, all it does is put unnecessary pressure (if it does at all) on the leadership.
It is war, and no war in history has happened without any loss to the good guys. We will learn from and update sop, punish who sabotaged if (if it indeed was sabotaged) and extract our revenge. Revenge is best served cold, and best if it calculated to change something. For immediate effect, as report are coming in, they say border has not been this hot this year!!
IA is doing/will further do what is necessary.


Its not just time to heat the border. Nothing is going to be achieved by this. I think all parties understand this and probably is the simplest reaction (along with Kadi ninda).

This presents us with an oppurtunity to realign the LOC to our advantage. By now hopefully we have a good understanding of the ideal terrorist infiltration routes and the best positions to defend them from. We should then make a plan to align LOC to this positions. This should then be declared as a pre-emptive unilateral realignment for the better defence against infiltration. If this does not really aid in reduction of infiltration at least it would be a first step into the reclamation of POK. Well an armchair subedar can surely dream :)

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby basant » 04 May 2020 17:09

fanne wrote:
basant wrote:Not claimed by himself but said so by at least one other, probably PR Twitter handle. Style and language are different so far.

funny you say that, I think language and style is a close match (unless a deliberate impersonation)

Similar, yes. I may be wrong but it's my guess that these accounts, esp Baba's, are used for posting by more than one person. Some in the 'team' might have changed. However, the fact that other similar handles (such as @Frontalfire and @MeghUpdates) retweet them shows that it's not an ordinary handle. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby krishna_krishna » 04 May 2020 17:32

RIP Bravehearts, given current scenario only way forward I see is for India to escalate by biting territory chunks slowly to result in escalation to full collapse of porkistan no other way out. They will fund/beg and keep this boiling as there are no cost to them, only open defeat of mars-e moment with loss of territory.

Here people take about 2001 when during op parakram gen padmanabham had made their life hell. But I would point it out yes we had a strategy and worked well however we also have an enemy who is smart and also learns over the period of time. They used lull to fortify their defenses, get more weapons from massa and out from 9/11 mess they were in to get out as most trusted non nato ally. Any such temporary respite would result in them again stronger, we do not want that.

Here is 2019 video of marathon LI sniper attach on the LC , I am sure revenge will be there for sure :

https://twitter.com/danvir_chauhan/stat ... 2553048064
Last edited by krishna_krishna on 04 May 2020 21:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SidSoma » 04 May 2020 19:02

Looks like Handwara is in focus again.....

Casualities on CRPF in this attack reported from Handwara. We are losing our Men every other day to these Terrorist now. Treatment of cancer is its removal completely. Om shanti Bravehearts
Quote Tweet

Frontalfire
@Frontalfire
· 19m
Breaking: Encounter starts between SFs & Terrorist in Handwara after Terrorist attacked CRPF party. More details awaited.

https://twitter.com/Frontalfire/status/1257294278189109248

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VinodTK » 04 May 2020 20:08

Twin attack on security personnel in J-K’s Budgam and Handwara, jawans injured
In a daring double attack, the security personnel in Jammu and Kashmir’s Handwara and Budgam were ambushed by militants, injuring jawans on Monday evening.

In Budgam, the militants attacked the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) guarding a power station. A jawan has been reported injured.

In Handwara, they attacked the Central reserve Police Force (CRPF), in which three jawans were injured. A militant was also killed.

The attack on forces comes close on the heels of the gunbattle, raging since Saturday in north’s Kashmir’s Handwara, during which an Indian Army colonel and four other security personnel were killed on Sunday.


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VinodTK » 04 May 2020 20:28


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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sid » 04 May 2020 21:23

These events are different, and deliberately targeting certain locations and personal. Much more planned and precise, something normal Abdouls cannot do.

If links are clear then India should escalate like a mad person, let the response be shocking and unpredictable. Conventional response will seem more weak.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ranneel » 04 May 2020 22:39

Just look at this video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhH5kfBd7Go&t=107s
@ 17:44 is a small river separating PoK and India. This is in teetwal which happens to be in Leepa sector.
All you need to do is board a bus from Muzaffarabad get down at teetwal, cross this stream, dodge armed,cross one montain and you are in Handwara.
Really, just imagine the effort that would have gone in creating a layered defense system against this Porkis.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VinodTK » 04 May 2020 23:08



Handwara: CRPF Neutralise One Terrorist

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RKumar » 04 May 2020 23:53

https://mobile.twitter.com/RadioPakista ... 5877173252

No one listens to I’m the dim, so president is crying... go IA go after NaPak nation
It's unfortunate that India created war-like situation during pandemic by resorting heavy shelling along #LoC resulting in many civilian deaths: @ArifAlvi

http://radio.gov.pk/04-05-2020/presiden ... oronavirus

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RKumar » 04 May 2020 23:54

I hope pole is getting ready for I’m the dim

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RKumar » 05 May 2020 00:20

Guys on SM should stop posting the locations as well as future plans of forces. Maybe it is time to go mute for sometime and let Guru’s do the analysis here n elsewhere.

Har har Mahadev, jai mahakali!


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