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Intelligence and National Security Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
arvin
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby arvin » 12 Apr 2017 10:58

Even I feel something is not right with the IE story. I read the same story in thequint. Seems more like a operation to controll the narrative by releasing some story to news outlets.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Vikas » 12 Apr 2017 11:11

Why would Pakis pronounce death sentence for KJ if one of their ISI spook was caught by India CoIN forces.
I mean what gives and how that would salvage the situation. Now even swap would be almost impossible.
Sh.KJ one day will be hanged just like that and Pakis would be glad that they killed one more kaffir.

I don't think this whole thing has been orchestrated somehow for the Joker missing in Nepal.

krishna_krishna
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 13 Apr 2017 04:30

^^^ Porkis did that to prevent us from going publically do equal - equal , even though they did this to me it is just a bargaining position with a hard hand. What they will do is intimidate, their Lt.col is singing like chicanery and would spill the beans. We should give credit to our intel agencies a as well as E Affairs ministry of no news so that we have choice to make it public or choose not to accept, like nothing has happened.

In the end there would be barter but which side will give more , only time will tell. There would be pardon from porkis side to show magnanimity (please see historically not a single indian spy has been executed ever, they either die in jail under mysterious circumstances or released). If they wanted to kill him or was a big fish they would have done it long back since its been more than a year he was abducted, but they are doing it to embarrass india to show they are victims of terrorism too. What they did not figure was indian jurrat (Balls) to get their yahoo and get chuddies twisted. They are scared trust me

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 13 Apr 2017 04:43

yes, most likely the captive Habibi is singing like a canary, they wouldn't reveal until they see a 'proof of life' for Jhadav and the pakis have been circumspect so far, no consular access.

The Indian side should avoid conflating the issue of saving a single man's life with compromises on geo-strategic issues even if MSM screams that its the right thing to do

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 13 Apr 2017 04:57

Our agencies at times do not get credit they do deserve. That is reason why no public acceptance, hence no MSM screaming.

Watch out in near future on porki pimps going after netas and forcing someone to admit that we have him.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 13 Apr 2017 12:03

Very interesting article.

Snippets

"Throughout the “Spy Wars” of the Cold-War period, Soviet intel, more often than not, came out on top. (They did, after all, steal the plans for the A-Bomb from the West.) As far as stealing technology and information operations were concerned, Soviet intelligence was deadly effective. Despite this, the Soviets were poor at analyzing the more prosaic political, economic, and military intelligence they collected. The Soviets continually misinterpreted, misunderstood, or drew poor conclusions from their information.

Why?

The primary reason the Soviets were poor at analysis was because the Soviet Union and its leadership were ideologically biased. The foundation of the Soviet Union was predicated on a single ideology: Marxism/communism. This meant that their intelligence service was attached to an ideologically driven totalitarian state. Therefore, oftentimes reality had to be reshaped to conform to the narrative.

Ideologies (any ideology) are totalitarian in nature because their essence is to take a philosophy and say that on the basis of it (in this case, Marxism/communism), certain things must be true. In the Soviet’s case, their worldview was that (1) capitalism was evil, (2) they must be militarily expansionist by nature, and (3) they must be dedicated to the perpetual exploitation of the masses. Stalin was convinced that the West was bent on dominating the world and consistently underestimated the importance of public opinion to Western leaders. Of course, he was mirror-imaging. As an absolute dictator, Stalin could not believe the West had actual functioning democracies."


"There are increasing parallels between modern U.S./Western society and the Soviet society I studied and lived in for much of my life. First, the Soviet “disease” of political correctness is alive and well in the United States. It has taken root in our culture and in the intelligence community as well. For example, when was the last time the reader stopped himself/herself from saying something they knew to be true, for fear of being punished or criticized for saying it? That’s not just a talking point, it is a central problem with our national conversation and it is adversely affecting the efficiency of our intelligence agencies and government."

https://sofrep.com/79120/ideology-can-k ... paratus-2/

chetak
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Apr 2017 15:00

X posted from the political thread

Full text of Kulbhushan Jadhav's alleged confession


[quote]Full text of Kulbhushan Jadhav's alleged confession

APRIL 10, 2017

Following is the full text of Kulbhushan Jadhav's alleged confession as shown at a press conference.

This press conference was jointly addressed by Pakistan's Minister for Information, Broadcasting and National Heritage Senator Pervaiz Rashid and Inter-Services Public Relations Director General Lieutenant General Asim Saleem Bajwa at the Press Information Department earlier.

“My name is Commander Kulbhushan Yadav and I am the serving officer of Indian Navy. I am from the cadre of engineering department of Indian Navy and my cover name was Hussein Mubarik Patel, which I had taken for doing some intelligence gathering for Indian agencies.

“I joined the National Defence Academy in 1987 and subsequently joined Indian Navy in Jan 1991 and subsequently served for the Indian Navy till around December 2001 when the Parliament attack occurred and that is when I started contributing my services towards gathering of information and intelligence within India.

“I live in the city of Mumbai in India. I am still the serving officer in the Indian Navy and will be due for retirement by 2022 as a commissioned officer in Indian Navy after having completed 14 years of service by 2002.

“I commenced intelligence operation in 2003 and established a small business in Chabahar in Iran as I was able to achieve undetected existence and visits to Karachi in 2003 and 2004 and having done some basic assignments within India for RAW.

“I was picked up by RAW in 2013 end. Ever since I have been directing various activities in Balochistan and Karachi at the behest of RAW and deteriorating law and order situation in Karachi, I was basically the man for Mr. Anil Kumar Gupta who is the joint secretary of RAW and his contacts in Pakistan especially in Balochistan Student Organisation.

“My purpose was to hold meetings with Baloch insurgents and carry out activities with their collaboration.“These activities have been of criminal nature, leading to killing of or maiming of Pakistani citizens.

“I realise during this process that RAW is involved in some activities related to the Baloch liberation movement within Pakistan and the region around it.

“There are finances which are fed into the Baloch movement through various contacts or various ways and means into the Baloch liberation (movement) and various activities of the Baloch liberation and RAW handlers go towards activities which are criminal, which are anti-national, which can lead to maiming or killing of people within Pakistan and mostly these activities were centred around of what I have knowledge is of ports of Gwadar, Pasni Jewani and various other installations, which are around the coast damaging various other installations, which are in Balochistan.

“So the activity seems to be revolving and trying to create a criminal sort of mindset within the Baloch liberation which leads to instability within Pakistan. In my pursuit towards achieving the set targets by my handlers in RAW, I was trying to cross over into Pakistan from the Saravan border in Iran on March 3, 2016, and was apprehended by Pakistani authorities while on the Pakistani side and the main aim of this crossing over into Pakistan was to hold (a) meeting with Baloch separatists in Balochistan for carrying out various activities, which they were supposed to undertake and carrying backwards the messages which had to deliver to Indian agencies.

“The main issues regarding this were that they were planning to conduct some operations within the next immediate (near) future so that was to be discussed mainly and that was the main aim of trying to coming into Pakistan.

“So that moment I realised that my intelligence operations have been compromised on my being detained in Pakistan, I revealed that I am an Indian naval officer, and it is on mentioning that I am Indian naval officer, the total perception of the establishment of the Pakistani side changed and they treated me very honourably and they did utmost respect and due regards and have handled me subsequently on a more professional and proper courteous way and they have handled me in a way that befits that of an officer and once I realised that I have been compromised in my process of intelligence operations, I decided to just end the mess I have landed myself in and just wanted to subsequently move on and cooperate with the authorities in removing complications which I have landed myself and my family members into, and whatever I am stating just now, it is the truth and it is not under any duress or pressure. I am doing it totally out of my own desire to mention and come clean out of this entire process which I have gone through last 14 years.[/quote

satya
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby satya » 13 Apr 2017 15:11

Our kali topis have come a long way from Singh's defection in 2004-05 . It took us almost 13 years to finally erase that episode and a few others though not so worthy but none the less demoralizing.

In btw story of isi col lured by a job offer was isi's cover for his travel. Swiftness with which Pindi GHQ moved showed colonel's importance.
If it took us 13 years ,imagine how long will it take for isi to be fully independent post obl and now this if at all . At last TSPA has lost its last independent unit . All it future ops will be directed from beijing or london .

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Apr 2017 15:31

In btw story of isi col lured by a job offer was isi's cover for his travel. Swiftness with which Pindi GHQ moved showed colonel's importance.

Agree on this part.
The email screenshots of the supposed mail which lured the Col "leaked" onto avrious forums shows a Pinglish which is easily noticable.

So looks like some else has happened ( most probably in Nepal where the good Col was doing his usual ISI-giri without diplomatic cover and was goatnapped) and the cover story of job hunting etc was hurriedly put up by TSP side to try and explain away his missing state and to force Indian's hand in acknowleding him.
All the newspaper stories of contacts in RAW telling newspapers about him being lured to Nepal are just psy-ops by Indian side to play along the narrative since it suits us best.


IMHO of course

ramana
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Apr 2017 22:11

At last TSPA has lost its last independent unit . All it future ops will be directed from beijing or london .


Very perceptive. Duplicity has no role and never did with ISI. Despite all the Indian press chattering about it.


Good insight.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 15 Apr 2017 14:15

3 suspected R&AW agents arrested in PoK: Report

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 191381.cms
ISLAMABAD: Police in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir have claimed that they have arrested three suspected R&AW agents for their alleged involvement in anti-state activities, according to a media report today.

The masked suspects were produced before the media during a briefing in Rawalkot, Dawn newspaper reported.

The three were residents of Taroti village in Abbaspur in PoK, according to the report.

chetak
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 15 Apr 2017 17:35

JADHAV VICTIM OF PAK-CHINA BALOCH ROMANCE


JADHAV VICTIM OF PAK-CHINA BALOCH ROMANCE
Saturday, 15 April 2017 | Jumma Marri | in Oped


It is a well-known fact that Pakistan always looked for blame games and excuses to carry on with her illegal occupation of Balochistan and genocidal military operation against the Baloch people.

The aim is to defeat the Baloch fight for freedom and force them to surrender to the Punjabi elite who could then loot Baloch resources without any resistance.

China, Pakistan’s close friend, joined the Punjabi looting class closely in 2001 in its efforts to kill and plunder Baloch resources unabashedly. It has now increased the stakes by announcing the so-called China–Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) that has raised Pakistan’s strategical importance many times in the region and beyond.

There are no doubts about the importance of CPEC for China and Pakistan (read Punjab). China has even declared it as the flagship project under the “One Belt, One Road” (OBOR) initiative. However, CPEC is an existential threat to not only the Baloch people but also to other ethnic minorities who are gradually coming to terms with the adverse impact of it on their lives. The Baloch people are particularly incensed about the growing military action that has followed the announcement of the project.

This has touched their nerves and made them more determined to fight for their inalienable rights of Independence which was snatched away from them through illegal annexation of their country by Pakistan in 1948.

CPEC is a direct threat to the USA too even if some of the American analysts have deluded themselves into believing that it would bring prosperity and stability to the terror-manufacturing country.

They ignore the debilitating impact of China-Pakistan strategic nexus on the regional conflict dynamics in general and the human rights situation in Balochistan in particular.

Pakistan is keeping its doors open for China to enhance its strategic existence in the Arabian Sea through its presence in Gwadar and boost its economy by bringing prosperity to western Chinese region of Xinjiang. At a time when China is facing economic downturn, investing its vast idle reserves in a corridor like this makes eminent sense, especially when it has a partner like Pakistan, and it is willing to trust Pakistani military with its ability as well as commitment to provide security for its investments.

This should particularly worry realists in America, when China is strategically competing with and displacing the US from region after region in the developing regions of Asia, Africa and Latin America.

It has inflated aspirations of replacing the US as the most powerful country in the world. It is full of scorn for the values and norms that the US upholds as fundamental to human development. There is a conscious effort by China to provide the developing world with an alternative vision of economic growth founded on values which are inherently anti-democratic and anti-human rights.

Ideologically, the Punjabi elite of Pakistan is its close cousin even if it maintains a façade of democracy. In such a setting, the US should stop alignment of such regressive forces rather than seeking to cohabit the strategic space of Southern Asia with both of them.

CPEC is also a direct threat to the oil rich West Asian countries. If China sets up its military bases right at the neck of Strait of Hormuz in Persian Gulf in this way, it will definitely flex its muscle in the region sooner than expected and browbeat the region into submission.

Having an alternative route for Chinese imports and exports away from South China Sea where the waters are increasingly getting hot due to Chinese ambitions to control entire south sea is also an attractive proposition for China. It will save on its expenses on security and trade-transit through CPEC.

CPEC is being projected as a matter of life and death by the ruling elite of Pakistan. Perceived Indian opposition to it is acting as an unexpected incentive for both China and Pakistan to overinvest on it for its successful implementation. They know for sure that the main hurdle on their way is the Baloch movement for freedom. They want to delegitimise the movement by inventing a link with India.

It is no secret that since 2000, the Pakistan Army is running its brutal military operations against the innocent Baloch people, who have been waging their fifth-generation struggle against the Pakistani policies.

Starting with military dictator Musharraf, Pakistani rulers have openly blamed everybody around the world from CIA, RAW, Mossad, Russian FSB, Afghans, Arabs and Iranian intelligence agencies for the ongoing Baloch resistance movement.

The Kulbhushan Jadhav episode only proves this point further. The Baloch people have known Pakistani designs since 2003 when Pakistani authorities offered them US $ 35,000 for every Indian they would be able to kidnap from Afghanistan and US$ 20,000 every Indian kidnapped from Iran. They have offered millions to Afghan Taliban for capturing Indians working in Afghanistan.

The story emerging from the ground suggests that Kulbhushan Jadhav was kidnapped from western Balochistan near Chabahar port in Iran by three Afghans who later sold him to some Baloch who were working for the ISI.

Jadhav was there on a business trip to inspect some possibilities to export Indian garments to Turkmenistan and other central Asian states.

He was blind-flooded and brought inside Pakistani occupied Balochistan and sold for US$ 35,000 that was trophy for ISI. He was then shown as a RAW agent captured in Balochistan, who was there to train and help Baloch and create instability in Pakistan.

It was all just a grand make-believe show to brainwash Pakistani public and international community to hide their crimes in Balochistan.


Another fact that has gone unnoticed is that the Chinese have resisted the temptation to invest heavily in Balochistan so far. The proposed Gadani power plants have been kept in abeyance. The move to build infrastructure around Gwadar has been pushed by Pakistan to sustain Chinese interests.

The only good this is that Pakistani ploy to project Baloch resistance as merely a function of mischief caused by Indian RAW has not convinced the Chinese about the nature of Baloch movement, which is likely to intensify further.

If the sentence against Kulbushan is carried out, it will be a travesty of justice. He has not been given due assistance under international law to plead his case. The Pakistani version of the story has been upheld by the military court and death sentence has been pronounced without even granting Indian High Commission access to its citizen alleged to be a spy.

As per international norms, this is the very minimum requirement for a fair trial. All this shows how desperate Pakistanis are to undermine Baloch struggle at one level and sell their antipathy towards India as legitimate point to the international community on the other.

Ironically, the Baloch people, with their secular outlook and reflexive empathy for India, have not received due attention and help from India in their struggle for their existence.

With India being a regional heavyweight with its record of upholding human rights in the case of Bangladesh, the Baloch have huge expectations from New Delhi, but it has gone unmet over the years. Despite steady attempt by various Baloch leaders in exile to reach out to Indian diplomats abroad in quest for moral and material help, there is no manifest desire to imperil India’s relationship with Pakistan by siding with Balochistan.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi has raised Baloch expectations but as the Indian coyness about the Kulbhushan case shows, India is still not prepared to openly advocate the Baloch cause and raise the case of gross human rights violations at the international level.

Alas! The ground reality is so very different from what the Pakistanis portray it to be!

(The writer is a physician by profession and a Baloch rights activist based in Moscow)

vasu raya
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 15 Apr 2017 21:28

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/hackers-release-files-indicating-nsa-monitored-global-bank-transfers/article18055450.ece?homepage=true

The absence of warning is significant because the NSA knew for months about the Shadow Brokers breach, officials previously told Reuters. Under a White House process established by former President Barack Obama’s staff, companies were usually warned about dangerous flaws.

Mr. Shook said criminal hackers could use the information released on Friday to hack into banks and steal money in operations mimicking a heist last year of $81 million from the Bangladesh central bank.

“The release of these capabilities could enable fraud like we saw at Bangladesh Bank,” Mr. Shook said.

The SWIFT messaging system is used by banks to transfer trillions of dollars each day. Belgium-based SWIFT downplayed the risk of attacks employing the code released by hackers on Friday.


Recently an Indian bank was attacked (like the BD one) but they managed to stop it before the funds were moved

krishna_krishna
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 21 Apr 2017 04:50

My older cousins paanwala heard a regular customer talking(who happens to be a chaiwala) on recent catch of kernail sahib from the border.

The story goes like this with operation to kidnap JD porkis escalated the Intel wars, but they did not knew rules of the game have changed past one year and with kernail sahib India raised the stakes ,the new raa chief is bad ass.

He was still part f eye as eye and has travelled to Nepal, Lanka etcand managed monkeys from there. This whole resume lnkedin etc was a hog wash \ cover to protect him and ease his international travel. Who goes to interview while changing sim cards three times in one journey with no return ticket booked and that too well trained afwaj guy and he knew who h was meeting(he was promised bigcatch prize), lumbini has (had) big base from where they used to direct their operations. With busting of railway track gang all the info was extracted about the handler.
This is were it gets interesting , our gollus didn't knew he was the same kernail sahib directing from sukkur officemumbai operations.He's a big fish and porkis didn't want there parrot to sing that is the reason to rush swap. Most of Intel takes tim to extract and they don't want it and wanted desh to admit.

They are wrong on multiple counts they got this from blue secondly we never accepted any knowledge of his existence now bhat ?

Even though they took counter measures damage is done. They will have to raisestakes ,let's see what happens next.

Chaiwala guess more ops against Desi's lvng in ME or astan. Offsource paanwala says chaiwala remains drunk and makes stories.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 21 Apr 2017 05:32

He was still part f eye as eye and has travelled to Nepal, Lanka etcand managed monkeys from there. This whole resume lnkedin etc was a hog wash \ cover to protect him and ease his international travel. Who goes to interview while changing sim cards three times in one journey with no return ticket booked and that too well trained afwaj guy and he knew who h was meeting(he was promised bigcatch prize), lumbini has (had) big base from where they used to direct their operations. With busting of railway track gang all the info was extracted about the handler.
This is were it gets interesting , our gollus didn't knew he was the same kernail sahib directing from sukkur officemumbai operations.He's a big fish and porkis didn't want there parrot to sing that is the reason to rush swap. Most of Intel takes tim to extract and they don't want it and wanted desh to admit.

Wow...exactly as speculated on day1 when news broke of Kernail sahib missing

ramana
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 21 Apr 2017 07:20

Some time back a Paki ran away from Colombo when he was found out to have been running agents in South India. Was this the same guy?

sum
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 21 Apr 2017 07:43

^^IIRC, that was a serving embassy staff and not a "retd ISI"...need to locate the article which had even named him in that

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 21 Apr 2017 08:02

>>TIMES NOW‏Verified account @TimesNow 14h14 hours ago
TIMES NOW accesses Defence Ministry's deposition on the matter #PurohitSecretFile

Turns out Col Purohit was innocent, UPA era saffron terror play threw him under the bus.

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/855039162235277312
Above is link to times now tweet with a video clip.

krishna_krishna
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 21 Apr 2017 10:38

ramana wrote:Some time back a Paki ran away from Colombo when he was found out to have been running agents in South India. Was this the same guy?


Not the same guy :
http://www.adaderana.lk/news/29651/paki ... nks-to-isi

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby malushahi » 10 May 2017 01:36

International Court of Justice stays death sentence imposed by Pakistani court on India’s Kulbhushan Jadhav

In what is a massive setback to Pakistan, International Court of Justice has stayed the death sentence imposed by a Pakistani court on India’s Kulbhushan Jadhav for spying, reports NDTV. This has come to pass after Pakistan had refused to extradite the alleged spy Jadhav in April. In its reaction then, the Indian government had said Pakistan ought to follow established international practice while dealing with foreign nationals in its custody, PTI reported. India has rejected all allegations against Jadhav as “baseless”. India has maintained that the circumstances of Jadhav’s presence in Pakistan remain unclear, especially as Pakistan has refused to provide consular access despite repeated requests.


Sushma SwarajVerified account
@SushmaSwaraj


Sushma Swaraj‏Verified account @SushmaSwaraj

I have spoken to the mother of #KulbhushanJadhav and told her about the order of President, ICJ under Art 74 Paragraph 4 of Rules of Court.

ramana
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 26 May 2017 02:59

X-Post from J&K thread....
Deans wrote:
sum wrote:^^ His talkson TEDx when he was head of NATGRID related to IA etc were really good.
Wonder what changed with the sudden dhoti-shivering in a short time?


What changed was that NATGRID failed to take off. He had to accept responsibility as its head and was replaced.
That seemed to have led to more anti-establishment views and possibly `envelope journalism'. There are a lot of articles which eventually
suggest that we should be a part of OBOR/CPEC etc, like this one.


Can you tell what or how failed?

ramana
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2017 03:00

Very interesting article on how British Intelligence had all the information but hardly any insight on India.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publicati ... ticle1.htm

Austin
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 20 Jul 2017 19:47

Pak Treats US As A 'Limitless ATM' Says CIA Agent Arrested In Lahore

"For Pakistan, no amount of money ever seemed to be enough. The economic aid it received from the United States became a drug it alternately loathed and could not live without," Raymond Davis said in his book "The Contractor".

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/pak-trea ... topstories

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 21 Jul 2017 05:43

Interesting insight into how many layers of agents and double agents are running around in J&K:
Police informant’s killing 2 months ago may hold key to attack on Amarnath yatris

Muhammad Yusuf Dar was buried on the third Friday of May, at his ancestral graveyard in the village of Gadoora, as a few dozen local residents stood by shouting slogans in support of Kashmir’s independence. His body had been found lying in the fields the previous day, ripped apart by bullets, killed by the men he had risked his life to serve.

Now, as J&K Police and intelligence services investigate Monday’s Amarnath Yatra attack, in which seven pilgrims were killed, one question has emerged as key: what led jihad commanders to raise the stakes by executing the first strike on religious pilgrims since 2006?

The answer could lie in the story of that man buried in Gadoora — a committed jihadist, and at the same time, a police spy.

For years now, jihadists have described the Yatra as part of a Hindutva plot to displace Muslims from the Valley, although such messages were rarely acted on. But an investigation by The Indian Express has revealed that a grim war within the Lashkar-e-Taiba, which claimed Dar’s life, may have led its commanders to finally target the pilgrimage in a bid to establish their ideological legitimacy before their followers.

A committed political Islamist, Dar was known to police for providing shelter and assistance to jihadist groups operating in and around his village. His relationship with Pakistani national Abdul Rehman, the LeT commander code-named Abu Qasim who took charge of South Kashmir in 2010-2011, was said to be intimate.

In 2013, sources familiar with the case say, police found their way in, when Syed Abdul Shabir, Station House Officer of Chadoora, was killed by three gunmen at a hardware store in the local bazaar.


Inside the Lashkar, intelligence sources say, many suspected that Dar had something to do with Qasim’s killing. Qasim’s successor — still known only by the alias Abu Dujana — steered clear of Dar and his support networks, fearing infiltration. However, as the months ticked by, a new modus-vivendi developed between the two men, with Dujana discovering Dar’s use as a logistics provider.

Through 2016, as large-scale protests swept South Kashmir in the wake of the killing of Burhan Wani, the LeT was ordered to maintain a low profile, and focus on building a popular base. Dujana, sources say, used the opportunity to marry a local woman in the village of Singoo near Kakapora in Pulwama. Armed operations almost ground to a halt, even as the flow of information continued.

Soon, sources say, Dujana’s deputies began to question his actions, blaming Dar’s influence. One of them, code-named Abu Ismail, even set up a rival faction, along with ethnic-Kashmiri jihadist Muhammad Ayub and two other south Kashmir residents. The group operated in the belt from Chadoora to Pampore, seeking to cash in on the rage unleashed after Wani’s death.

Meanwhile, sources say, police mounted pressure on Dar to deliver his boss, Dujana. The LeT’s growing popularity in southern Kashmir had become a source of strategic concern, and the fact that it had long-serving leaders like Dujana was seen as a key reason for its ability to garner support in the countryside.

In May, Dar delivered. Dujana was trapped in an Army cordon in north Kashmir, where he had gone to receive two new fidayeen. But the operation was bungled, and the target escaped. Days later, Dar was found shot dead.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 26 Jul 2017 05:45

Internet chatter mentioning that a "Col Joshi" from IA ( supposedly RAW) has been abducted in Afg.

Hope its not true but never know since the game is on since the Jadhav affair

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby schinnas » 26 Jul 2017 06:12

This is very very serious matter if Pakistan can abduct senior level officials from third countries with impunity. Response must be swift and very strong so they shudder to try such things again.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 31 Jul 2017 10:39

Col.Joshi name crops up again. He is mentioned as a DGMI operative and is missing from July 22 ( as per internet droppings):
Indian Military Intelligence officer has been arrested by Pakistani Army

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 31 Jul 2017 11:04

sum wrote:Internet chatter mentioning that a "Col Joshi" from IA ( supposedly RAW) has been abducted in Afg.

Hope its not true but never know since the game is on since the Jadhav affair


we claim to know these paki barbarians the best.

wasn't such a move expected or even anticipated?? :evil:

If adequate precautions are not taken in war zones, then who is to blame??

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 31 Jul 2017 11:18

^^ Most likely the Pakis have wisened up after the KJ affair( where they blurted out his being in custody) and are following our template of complete quiet like in the Col Habib story.

I believe there is no smoke without some fire and this story will unfold further in the days to come

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 31 Jul 2017 22:36

Operative spoke of CIA hand in 1966 crash: Report

Highlights:

Homi Bhabha was flying to Vienna to attend a meeting when the plane crashed into Mont Blanc in the Swiss Alps on January 24, 1966.

In October 1965, Bhabha had announced over AIR that if he got the go-ahead and India had the capability to make a nuclear bomb in 18 months.


MUMBAI: Was the CIA responsible for the crash of Air-India's Boeing 707, which was carrying the head of India's nuclear establishment? Homi Bhabha was flying to Vienna to attend a meeting when the plane crashed+ into Mont Blanc in the Swiss Alps.

On July 11, 2008, an alleged conversation between a journalist Gregory Douglas and a CIA officer Robert T Crowley, which was reproduced by a relatively unknown news media TBRNews.org suggested that the US intelligence agency had a role in the crash.

The transcript of the conversation was sent to this correspondent by a top official in November 2008.

The CIA officer was quoted as saying: "We had trouble, you know, with India back in the 60's when they got uppity and started work on an atomic bomb...the thing is, they were getting into bed with the Russians.''

Referring to Homi Bhabha, he said, "that one was dangerous, believe me. He had an unfortunate accident. He was flying to Vienna to stir up more trouble when his Boeing 707 had a bomb go off in the cargo hold....''


In October 1965, Bhabha had announced over All India Radio that if he got the go-ahead, India had the capability to make a nuclear bomb in 18 months.

According to experts requesting anonymity, Bhabha was convinced that if India had to become a major force to reckon with, it had to launch a nuclear programme focussing on its peaceful role in areas like power, agriculture and medicine. But they said he also had a hidden agenda: developing an atomic bomb to defend the country.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby partha » 01 Aug 2017 10:29

sum wrote:Interesting insight into how many layers of agents and double agents are running around in J&K:
Police informant’s killing 2 months ago may hold key to attack on Amarnath yatris

I am not sure Dar was the police informant. This seems like a planted news by the agencies using Praveen Swami to mislead the terrorists into thinking they got the rat in their group. Today Abu Dujana was encountered. Either there is a new informant or the real one is still out there.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 01 Aug 2017 11:03

Definitely too many smokes and mirrors.

In the funeral 2 days back of another HM guy, one of the other wanted dude(forget his name) turned up to give speeches and there were clashes between supporters of his and Zakir Musa.

So too many wheels within wheels churning

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 02 Aug 2017 02:12

Why the 4th largest military evokes neither respect nor fear
The Indian military remains in a World War II time-warp and is organised into 19 unwieldy commands against China’s five and United States’ six. A part-time Raksha Mantri also weakens the structure
A "security dilemma" in international relations represents a situation in which accretion of power -- military and economic -- by a state generates fear amongst its rivals, leading to tensions, a possible arms race and the possibility of conflict. India's acquisition of power is based on its nuclear arsenal, a modern but under-equipped military with 1.5 million personnel under arms and a defence expenditure of $60 billion. And yet, far from striking fear, India often fails to evoke respect in its Asian neighbourhood.

The Economist weekly, in a 2013 article titled Can India Become a Great Power, seemed to put its finger on the reason: "India has the world's 4th largest military," it said, "and yet its political class shows little sign of knowing or caring how the country's military clout should be deployed." Warning India against "an unstable but dangerous Pakistan and a swaggering and intimidating China", it observed: "The absence of a strategic culture and the distrust between civilian-run ministries and the armed forces has undermined military effectiveness."

Such remarks are generally dismissed in New Delhi, as rooted in Western biases against India. In this case, however, the British journal was only reiterating what Indian commentators had been saying for decades.India's deteriorating neighbourhood situation requires us to reflect on "cause and effect" relationships. How, for example, has a smaller and weaker Pakistan sustained a war on India for three decades by infiltrating armed fighters across our border to wreak death and destruction with impunity? How does Pakistan keep the pot boiling in the Kashmir Valley, almost at will, without fear of repercussions?

In the case of China, despite our diplomats rejoicing over a series of bilateral agreements, protocols and confidence-building measures signed between 1993 and 2013, what emboldens China's People's Liberation Army to offer provocation and offence, at will, through repeated violations of the Line of Actual Control? In the current Doklam stand-off, what makes Chinese officials as well as the media indulge in boorish invective in an attempt to intimidate India?

In international relations, as in the jungle, even the perception of weakness can provoke base and predatory instincts of unscrupulous rivals. Has India, notwithstanding its nuclear arsenal, military muscle and economic and demographic strengths, conveyed an impression to its adversaries of a weak, diffident and irresolute nation? And has it, thereby, tempted them into bellicose adventurism and brinksmanship? If so, this is the fall-out of sustained political indifference that has eroded the credibility of our national security posture. Of numerous areas of neglect, I cite just three.

One, the top-ranking officer in India's higher defence organisation is the Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee, who is also a key functionary in the nuclear command chain. Currently, this is a part-time post, tenanted by one of the three Service Chiefs in rotation, with short, random tenures. Experience has proved this to be an absurd and ineffective model, which impacts on the credibility of our deterrent posture. Successive governments have clung to this system, ignoring repeated recommendations that either this post be made permanent or be replaced by a Chief of Defence Staff.

Two, the US manages its forces worldwide through six joint military commands, while China reorganised its forces in 2014 into five geographic commands, each with integrated army, navy and air force components.

The Indian military, however, remains in a World War II time-warp, and is organised into 19 unwieldy commands, of which only two are joint and 17 single service, with no two HQs in the same location. Again, India's failure to implement reforms and integrate the three services means that our soldiers will be denied the synergy and combat effectiveness that jointness has brought to every modern military. A recent report of the Comptroller and Auditor General pinpointing material shortages of imported hardware and ordnance highlights the multiple challenges that our military faces.

The last issue that detracts from the credibility of India's security edifice is the civil-military dissonance and bureaucratic functioning of South Block that has stalled military modernisation. The roots of this discord lie in the fact that the 100 per cent civilian Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the service HQs work in separate compartments and no government has mustered the will to buck the bureaucracy and integrate them.

Each of these shortcomings is a self-goal by the Indian state. In 2001, a Group of Ministers of the then National Democratic Alliance government had recommended a comprehensive revamp of the national security structure. A decade later, the United Progressive Alliance government received a similar set of recommendations from a committee convened by the cabinet. The first was implemented superficially and the second vanished without trace in the bureaucratic maw. While Parliament has rarely lifted a finger in the cause of national security, China's military and the Pakistani deep state keenly observe the Indian scene and are taking full advantage of our egregious neglect.

The onus for the nation's security rests squarely on the Prime Minister, who must ensure that responsibility for defence is assigned to a full-time Defence Minister and not the MoD bureaucracy, as is the default practice. By lifting the current embargo on meeting his service chiefs, the Prime Minister can set the tone for better civil-military relations and avail of first-hand, authentic military advice and consultation.

Such are the demands of party politics and election campaigning that even the best of RMs have been overwhelmed by their political obligations. A credible national security organisation demands a 24x7 Raksha Mantri, unburdened by demands of electoral politics. Even if a political lightweight, it is far more important that the RM finds the time and the mental capacity to remedy neglected long-term security planning and strategy.

Both the Kashmir and Doklam crises are putting India's defence preparedness and resolve to severe test, especially in the absence of a full-time Defence Minister. There is no question that we must stand firm while working towards a modus vivendi on both fronts. However, it is time we stopped tempting fate and, late though it is, initiated national security reforms with urgency.


The above writeup is by former IN chief admiral Arun Prakash.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Luxtor » 03 Aug 2017 07:01

Hi All,

I find that the removal of Nawaz Sharif in Pukistan very suspicious at this time during the Doklam crisis. Is the Puki army preparing to create a 2nd front in the west against India in coordination with the Chinese? The Puki security-state establishment sees the civilian PM/politicians with contempt especially Nawaz Sharif. He could only be a hinderance to their plans now just as even during Kargil war, where he was mostly kept in the dark although I do think he knew then that something was afoot but not sure what. This time they're not even taking a minuscule of taking a chance of him fouling things up. So they have now replaced him with the puppet who will keep his mouth shut and not mess up their plans.

So let's keep our eyes on the western border and Kashmir while we're being challenged in the north-east by the Chinese. Something suspicious is going on here!

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Aug 2017 06:49

http://m.indiatoday.in/lite/story/pakis ... 17779.html


How Pakistan, China agencies are using women to honeytrap Indian army officers


Intelligence agencies have issued an alert for security forces to ask their men to be watchful of attempts made by women to lure them.

By Manjeet Singh Negi | August 3, 2017

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Aug 2017 03:52

Rakesh wrote:ATS checking if Jhansi stenographer share details about Dhanush howitzer
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 973777.cms


New style spying, Could be happening at all ranges and Chandipur also.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 18 Aug 2017 06:19

Is this part true about RAW and Entebbe:
Special Group which is formed in 1981 as 4 Vikas of Special Frontier Force become a separate operation unit when Indian Army observe the risk of exposure of one of the many secrets of Indian Army, Special group become a separate special operation unit, they were basically created by a colonel of 10 para SF “The Desert Scorpions” under Project Sunray but unlike SFF who have Tibetans in all over the unit they are all Indians 250 in numbers and in 1983 6 officers of Special Group went to a secret base of Sayeret Matkal at a classified location but some sources said that it was near Tel aviv.

The thing is quite strange that why one of the most secret special operation units of the world agreed to train a newly formed unit of other nation which can cause damage to their covert game capabilities, the answer lies in the history when the heroic rescue by Mossad and Israeli Special Forces in Entebbe, Uganda where terrorist hijacked an Air France aircraft, at that it is believed that R&AW helped Mossad to get precise and precious intelligence to base the operation but the involvement of India remain a secret cause that time India don’t want to upset its Arab Allies and in the gratitude of the support provided by India in the operation Entebbe they trained our officers in various counter-terrorist and espionage skills they were trained for 22 days in various counter-terror ops, in different environments.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 18 Aug 2017 07:35

krishna_krishna wrote:https://elitepredators.wordpress.com

The URL is gold mine for para sf exploits in the valley. Didn't know Marcos were targeted twice on first day of deployment pretty strong pattern wonder how Intel agencies not able to get the rat


X post on location ops


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 25 Aug 2017 13:48

WikiLeaks‏Verified account @wikileaks https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/900985901534371840

Has the CIA already stolen India's #Aadhaar database?


How CIA Spies Access India’s Biometric Aadhaar Database


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