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Artillery Discussion Thread

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2017 23:36

Private Manufacture – Shift in Indian Army Policy
http://i-hls.com/2017/01/private-manufa ... my-policy/

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby abhik » 04 Feb 2017 21:37


There are more short videos in the channel.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby shiv » 04 Feb 2017 22:22

Singha wrote:^^ direct fire more used to in field guns not howitzers but IA wants it in emergency if the position is about to overrun and AP pellet shots are needed.

If that is the stated reason (by the army) - I would like to see a reference for that or is it chaiwala?

I though the direct fire more is useful in the mountains as it was in Kargil where line of sight targets exist. No attacking force will come rushing at the barrel of an artillery piece - they will simply skirt and come around the sides

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Feb 2017 22:43

shiv wrote:..

Looks like NoKo has a longer Koksan than anyone else


The better to reach Pusan

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Pratyush » 05 Feb 2017 09:19

I find it almost comical that 5 years ago we were only seeing news of IA sending 155 rfq to international vendors. And today we have potentially 2 domestic designs competing for the 52 calbier project. The tech for m 46 upgrade to 45 call and danush.

The domestic ATAGS IMO should be adaptable to the mounted configuration as well.so that is another product that can be met through potentially domestic design. The SPH is a different discussion.

What difference leadership makes.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Indranil » 05 Feb 2017 09:39

To be fair, Dhanush, ATAGS were all started before Modi sarkar. But Modi Sarkar has certainly provided the much needed support.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 05 Feb 2017 10:05

abhik wrote:
There are more short videos in the channel.


Pretty good that

Seemed so smooth and effortless

Especially when you compare it with the frenzied grunt work for manual loaded howitzers like the M777


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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby abhik » 05 Feb 2017 12:08

Indranil wrote:To be fair, Dhanush, ATAGS were all started before Modi sarkar. But Modi Sarkar has certainly provided the much needed support.


We the UPA and their indecisiveness to thanks for, else we would have 100's of imported and screwdrivered gun by now.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Bala Vignesh » 05 Feb 2017 19:18

Is it just me or was their an inordinate delay in firing off the third shot??? The time between the first and second shot was about 8-9 seconds where as the third shot was almost 10-12 later.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby shiv » 05 Feb 2017 19:55

Bala Vignesh wrote:Is it just me or was their an inordinate delay in firing off the third shot??? The time between the first and second shot was about 8-9 seconds where as the third shot was almost 10-12 later.

Come on boss. "Inordinate delay"? You've only see 3 shots being fired in one video and all three are done in 20 seconds and you judge one as inordinate delay? The second one comes about 9 seconds after the first and the third one 11 seconds later Give our people 2-3 seconds of wiggle room please?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Bala Vignesh » 05 Feb 2017 20:05

Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby nirav » 05 Feb 2017 20:20

Bala Vignesh ji doesn't like to give even two seconds to the recepient of that third round :rotfl:

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Pratyush » 05 Feb 2017 20:25

Wait for the advent of atags. It was reported to have MRSI capability. As will the K9.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Indranil » 05 Feb 2017 20:42

abhik wrote:
There are more short videos in the channel.

Is there anyway to ascertain that this is Dhanush and not the Bofors?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby AdityaM » 05 Feb 2017 20:50

Bala Vignesh wrote:Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..

Looks like the round was kept upside down and had to be uprighted

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Sid » 05 Feb 2017 22:40

Indranil wrote:
abhik wrote:[youtub]83euhUOCx4M[/youtub]
There are more short videos in the channel.

Is there anyway to ascertain that this is Dhanush and not the Bofors?


Yes, it has a distinctive muzzle velocity radar placed on top of barrel which original bofors does not have.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby sudeepj » 05 Feb 2017 23:05

Bala Vignesh wrote:Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..


Three projectiles are stored on a ready tray on the gun, but the propellant charges are still 'hand fed' to the beast. My guess is, because the propellant is highly unstable compared to the projectiles and because it weighs much less than the 40 kg projectiles. There is a human element in loading the charges and that causes the time variation.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby abhik » 05 Feb 2017 23:29

Sid wrote:
Indranil wrote:Is there anyway to ascertain that this is Dhanush and not the Bofors?


Yes, it has a distinctive muzzle velocity radar placed on top of barrel which original bofors does not have.

I think you can also make out the longer barrel.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby pravula » 05 Feb 2017 23:51

sudeepj wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..


Three projectiles are stored on a ready tray on the gun, but the propellant charges are still 'hand fed' to the beast. My guess is, because the propellant is highly unstable compared to the projectiles and because it weighs much less than the 40 kg projectiles. There is a human element in loading the charges and that causes the time variation.


AdityaM is correct. You can see the cartridge being flipped before the third shot.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby rohitvats » 06 Feb 2017 10:25

Bala Vignesh wrote:Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..


your observation is correct - the charge, which propels the round, was put upside down and this had to be corrected.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Sid » 06 Feb 2017 11:09

^^as per other Fh77B live fire demos, a round is not fired until a new charge bag is not placed for the next round. But in this video round a fired while soldier was still in process of placing it.

Second issue seems to be with the charge bag itself, as igniter pads on charge bags are colored (red) so that people know which side is up. But this charge bag looked a bit different, as both ends looked white.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2017 11:59

even after all these years, its a compact, brilliant and functional design. it never really aged. the G5 looks in its original SA model looked kind of large, and unrefined in comparison, granted its huge range.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Bala Vignesh » 06 Feb 2017 12:42

AdityaM wrote:Looks like the round was kept upside down and had to be uprighted


pravula wrote:AdityaM is correct. You can see the cartridge being flipped before the third shot.


rohitvats wrote:your observation is correct - the charge, which propels the round, was put upside down and this had to be corrected.


Thank you for pointing it out, everyone. I must have missed it due to the smaller screen on a mobile.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Chinmay » 13 Feb 2017 13:50

http://www.bloombergquint.com/business/ ... ys-am-naik

A Rs 4,600-crore order for field guns is expected by next month-end, Naik told BloombergQuint’s Menaka Doshi. L&T has tied up with Korea’s Samsung Techwin to supply self-propelled, tracked howitzers to the army


Is L&T also involved in field gun upgrade? Or DDM mixing up tracked howitzer and field gun?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby vaibhav.n » 13 Feb 2017 16:34

Dhanush troop deployment



Mountain trials



Dhanush firing sequence close-up


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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2017 09:04

$750 mn deal: Indian Army to get 2 BAE Systems’ M777 ULH howitzer guns in June
http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ne/565814/

BAE Systems will be delivering two out of 145 M777 155mm/39-calibre ultra lightweight howitzer (ULH) guns in June, for the army to carry out a few tests with Indian ammunition.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2017 09:05

Indigenous towed artillery now in advanced stage of trials
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/ban ... 326853.ece

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 04 Mar 2017 22:05

130mm ammo is sitting duck as special steel boxes not delivered yet
https://twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI/sta ... 1804656640

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Indranil » 17 Mar 2017 23:12

Details of ATAGS:


World beating specs:
chamber: 27 litres, Firing pressure:560 MPA (highest by any artillery gun in the world).

APU is from Cummins, Puna. Everything else other than the FCS is from Bharat-Forge.
The tests were a runaway success. They completed everything in 5 hours instead of the stipulated 5 days (everything went right in the first step itself)

More details:
1. Ultra light howitzer: coming in July

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 18 Mar 2017 09:59

^^ with these kind of specs, ATAGS should break all kinds of artillery records. Also desi ultra light howitzer, damn, Arde is on a rampage. Now if only they are able to do the same with small arms.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Marten » 18 Mar 2017 10:23

The real surprise is that Baba Kalyani has not taken up small arms or decided on a tie-up. He is of course far more familiar with the IA than we are.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby rohitvats » 18 Mar 2017 13:00

^^^Now pray that Mounted Gun System (MGS) is developed in-house and not imported. First, adapt the Dhanush to MGS system and induct it in parallel with the towed gun. In case of ATAGS, start a parallel program with for mounted ATAGS and get it into service along with towed ATAGS.

As for ULWH, limit induction of M-777 to present number if the timeline for development is not too far off. Domestic ULWH would make wonderful replacement for IFG and LFG (wherever required). They should also look at more advanced 105mm gun for mountains.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Singha » 18 Mar 2017 13:29

I used to think 25ltr chamber a holy grail..27ltr is a borderline naval system lol. This thing can put a lot of heat on target.

We need 1000s not 100s. Even the paramils fighting in central india should have some firebases to dominate circles of territory and strike camps located by drones. My school friend is in one such unit. Nothing like a salvo of 155mm on a jungle camp to ruin ones day

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Singha » 18 Mar 2017 13:30

All these new guns should come with a 20 rd magazine like bofors archer. Speeds up rapid fire shoot n scoot missions.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby abhik » 18 Mar 2017 13:56

Singha wrote:I used to think 25ltr chamber a holy grail..27ltr is a borderline naval system lol. This thing can put a lot of heat on target.
...

They recently tested a 55 cal barrel on the M777 :(( :(( :((

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Singha » 18 Mar 2017 14:19

M777 cannot be our route. We lacl donestic titanium reserve and metallurgy while p2 have a lot. Russis even made some subs out of it.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby shiv » 18 Mar 2017 17:24

Singha wrote:M777 cannot be our route. We lacl donestic titanium reserve and metallurgy while p2 have a lot. Russis even made some subs out of it.

India has huge Titanium reserves. I think Titanium is a difficult metal to work with and form into anything useful

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby tushar_m » 18 Mar 2017 17:58

Bharat Forge Ultra Light howitzer will weight about 4500kg & will be ready for engineering trials in june this year.(idrw)

In comparison M777 weights about 4200kgs & few will be available to Indian Army this year. What will be the cost difference between the desi & gora light howitzer will tell a story that we will discuss in this thread for a long time.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Prasad » 18 Mar 2017 19:50

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:M777 cannot be our route. We lacl donestic titanium reserve and metallurgy while p2 have a lot. Russis even made some subs out of it.

India has huge Titanium reserves. I think Titanium is a difficult metal to work with and form into anything useful

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfoc ... 7/tech.htm

India has enough Titanium reserves. We lacked tech to extract it. We do now. The Kerala plant churns out 500MT of the stuff/year and is 'considering' increasing production to 1000MT. Interestingly TiO2 is also used for paints and we import that stuff by the tons from all sorts of places adding to our forex problem. Ti machining I think we've got a hold on. Midhani's stall had a few samples of machined Ti items.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 19 Mar 2017 04:52

India close to exporting Bofors artillery shells to the UAE
http://defencenews.in/article/India-clo ... UAE-251029


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