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Artillery Discussion Thread

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sudeepj
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby sudeepj » 12 Aug 2017 21:05

Mortar firing at LoC

What is the purpose of the little wall around the mortar emplacement? Its too low to provide any protection from counter battery fire, so it cant be that..

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby CalvinH » 13 Aug 2017 08:10

Looks like practice drill or a training exercise.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Gagan » 14 Aug 2017 07:17

Some mortars misfire and the propellant does not ignite properly. The live mortar will fall a few feet away.
That small wall will protect the mortar team, who can lie down and take cover behind it. The mortar is placed at the edge of the wall, such that if there is a misfire, the mortar falls beyond the wall.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby niran » 14 Aug 2017 08:42

sudeepj wrote:Mortar firing at LoC

What is the purpose of the little wall around the mortar emplacement? Its too low to provide any protection from counter battery fire, so it cant be that..

counter fire protection the name is Mortar Pit, the sand and wood and plastic covered wall make it difficult for laser range finder, counter battery radar etc to operate, furthermore the pit works as dead space which in turn protect crew from counter arty fire.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby deejay » 14 Aug 2017 08:51

Rohitvats blog on antitank missile:

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2017/08/indian-army-and-anti-tank-guided.html

...
As the write-up shows, Indian Army has a varied types of anti-tank guided missiles depending upon usage and platform. In pure number terms, the total requirement is in excess of 85,00 missiles of different types.

The recent order for Spike-MR fills only one, albeit large, part of the overall requirement. If the infantry battalions indeed use a mix of short and long range ATGM, then Spike-MR represents replacement of only the short range version i.e. Milan/Milan-2T. The field is wide open for replacement of Konkur-M in long range ATGM for the infantry. CLGM mentioned above has the attributes to be this replacement. It remains to be seen whether CLGM/CLGM derived missile is the answer or we import another missile. Spike family has the Spike-LR version and Israelis will sure push it. Considering that Konkur-M are going strong, I think domestic R&D establishment still has some time on their hand to offer a credible solution for this requirement.

But induction of Spike-MR does mean that doors for US made Javelin ATGM are more or less closed. It does not make sense for an army to operate two man-portable ATGMs. It might so happen that IA may import some units for specialized formations like special forces. But even this seems absurd.

BMP-2 are slated for upgrade. One proposal from the Russians talks of re-arming the BMP-2 with four AT-14 Kornet missiles; these are placed on either side of the turret in a ready-to-fire pack of two. With DRDO making progress with CLGM, it remains to be seen if it can be adapted for BMP-2 upgrade. Between infantry's long range ATGM requirement and BMP-2 upgrade, CLGM/CLGM derived missile has the potential to tap the biggest segment of ATGM in the army.

Recently, Indian Army has expressed interest for next generation tank fired ATGM for its T-90 fleet. And it seems the T-72 main gun (2A46M) is also likely to be updated with T-90 main gun (2A46-M5). This will permit upgraded T-72 to fire ATGM from the main gun. CLGM was developed for 120mm rifled main gun of Arjun tank while T-72/T-90 have 125mm main guns. It remains to be see whether DRDO bites the bullet and delivers a new missile for T-90/T-72 fleet or India goes for missile from abroad.

Finally, NAG seems to that much closer to clearing the final hurdle. This one missile represents a phenomenal jump in anti-tank capability of the army. The missile is capable of defeating any present or future tank which is likely to see service on western or eastern borders. It induction in the army will give formidable anti-tank capability to its infantry/mechanized formations.

Same goes for HELINA. The Army Aviation Corp (AAC) is slated for massive expansion, especially in the attack helicopter domain. IA plans to induct 60 Rudra and 114 Light Combat Helicopters. It is but common sense that a domestic missile serves this massive requirement.

As things stand today, India can fulfill about 80%-85% of ATGM requirement across multiple platforms. All it requires is for the R&D establishment to work out realistic and achievable goals. And for the Indian Army to ensure good does not become the enemy of the best and that it works closely with the R&D establishment to work on this road-map.
...

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby abhik » 14 Aug 2017 09:52

Has a deal for Spike missiles actually been signed?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby jayasimha » 14 Aug 2017 13:57

As per MOD website.

(11) A contract for procurement of 130 mm guns at a cost of Rs. 219.06 crore from M/s Electronic Corporation oflndia Ltd. (ECIL) was signed on 19.6.2017

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 15 Aug 2017 03:01

Would it be for electronic systems for 130 mm guns?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 16 Aug 2017 12:27

Dhanush fails a third time? Is there a diabolic plot to sabotage it? A thorough and swift investigation must be made esp. with the ammo,where OFB's ammo has been in the past found to be defective.Can't understand why sev. guns are not tested simultaneously with ammo from diff sources.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201708 ... n-failure/
Xcpts:
Military exercises Union Shield 2015India’s New Domestic Artillery Gun Fails Weapons Trials for Third Time © Sputnik

MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
03:47 16.08.2017

India’s homemade Dhanush towed howitzer may be domestically produced, but a multitude of failed tests have proven that the weapon is unready for use in warfare. An Indian Army source told Defense News that the artillery gun has failed three times in as many months, pushing the induction date back further and further.

"The Dhanush 155mm/45-caliber artillery gun has failed on three occasions in a row in the last three months when the shell of the gun hit the muzzle brake in one of the six prototype guns currently undergoing user trials," the source told Defense News.

This isn't the first time the Dhanush has encountered troubles. In July, The Times of India reported that "in May when six guns were being fired at one go, a shell hit the muzzle brake in one of the pieces…Last week when the test fires were being undertaken, again a shell hit the muzzle brake, bringing the whole process back to square one."

"Shells hitting the muzzle brake could be due to a number of reasons such as overexploitation of the munitions, overcharging of the munitions and so on or even faulty ammunition; all of these aspects will have to be evaluated," said Rahul Bhonsle, retired Indian Army brigadier and defense analyst, to Defense News.

India currently uses 414 FH-77B howitzer artillery guns manufactured by Swedish defense contractor Bofors (which was then acquired by the British BAE Systems in 2005.) The FH-77B's were purchased in the late 80s and early 90s.

The Dhanush is based off the FH-77B, as India acquired the schematics to the gun. Its primary advantage over India's aging arsenal of FH-77B's is a larger caliber, a longer effective range, and a faster rate of fire.

The guns were intended to be made of 80 percent domestically-manufactured components. However, it was later revealed that wire race rollers that were labeled "Made in Germany" had actually come from China — and were defective to boot.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Kashi » 16 Aug 2017 12:44

Seems to refer to the earlier incident using standard hatchet job tactics...

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 16 Aug 2017 13:02

Can't we get some more official light on the issue? It's becoming a crashing bore when you read that Akash (CAG) has failed 30% of the time,again,some problem with propellant,etc.,or some other system adopted by the forces have problems.The infantry rifle ended up being a dud. Billions are being spent over decades in trying to indigenise. The PM's speech yesterday about getting rid of the 'Chalta hai" attitude shoudl star with the DPSUs. If on the other hand it is found that there are some deliberately sabotaging our dev. and in the pay of firang entities,they should be hauled over the coals and prosecuted with extreme prejudice.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Kashi » 16 Aug 2017 13:31

Good idea. We should start with probing the T-90 deal first..

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby deejay » 16 Aug 2017 13:49

Kashi wrote:Good idea. We should start with probing the T-90 deal first..


Have you ever wondered why not a single Russi deal has ever had a corruption issue while barring FMS deals all non Russi deals end up with some corruption issue (including Korean)?

Also, while everything must be seeing corruption, only arms deal get stopped?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Viv S » 16 Aug 2017 14:07

deejay wrote:Have you ever wondered why not a single Russi deal has ever had a corruption issue while barring FMS deals all non Russi deals end up with some corruption issue (including Korean)?

Also, while everything must be seeing corruption, only arms deal get stopped?

I suspect that's because most Russian entities involved are state-owned and going after an SOE could have serious political implications.

The intriguing Choudhrie family at the heart of Rolls-Royce investigation
One Swiss banking source has described to the Guardian and BBC how money transfers between the Choudhrie family group’s companies sparked an anti-money laundering alert at Clariden Leu, which was then a private banking division of Credit Suisse.

The Guardian has seen a report created by the risk management team at Clariden Leu in October 2008, which highlights the flow of vast sums that triggered the inquiry.

The report analysed 18 “account relationships” and looked at money transfers between companies owned or managed by members of Bhanu Choudhrie’s extended family. One was Belinea Services Limited, which received €37,200,000 (£33,400,000) from Rosoboronexport State Corporation, the Russian state’s arms dealership. Bhanu Choudhrie was a director of Belinea.

In the year leading up to the report, another company, the Seychelles-registered Cottage Consultants, received €28,100,000 from Rosoboronexport and transferred €22,700,000 to an Isle of Man bank.

On company documents, Bhanu Choudhrie is described as the “first and sole director” of Cottage Consultants. The company is owned through bearer shares, which means it is owned by whoever physically holds the share certificates. Bhanu Choudhrie has denied being a beneficial owner of the company.

Cottage Consultants had also received €9,700,000 from an entity called “ABC”, with the money originating from Vnesheconombank, a now-sanctioned Moscow bank.

MiG and other firms paid millions to CBI, ED suspect Sudhir Choudhrie’s son, cousin
NEW DELHI: Companies associated with the son and a close relative of Sudhir Choudhrie, an Indian origin British citizen currently being investigated by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) and Enforcement Directorate (ED) and whose name figures in CBI’s list of “undesirable” middlemen, received over a hundred million dollars from Russian arms companies in 2007-08.

ET accessed a confidential report commissioned by Credit Suisse that shows the Choudhrie "family group" – as the report described it – had 18 accounts in the bank. The accounts are, jointly or individually, in the names of Choudhrie's son, Bhanu Choudhrie, and his cousin, Aman Chopra.
.
.
Three companies – Carter Consultants Inc, Belinea Services Ltd and Cottage Consultants Ltd – also figure in the so called Panama papers. Panama papers refer to a set of documents from a Panamanian law firm on financial transactions involving companies of many individuals and entities from different countries, including India. Tax avoidance has been alleged as one of the motives behind these transactions. Panama papers show Bhanu Choudhrie (Sudhir Choudhrie’s son) and Aman Chopra (a cousin) as directors or shareholders of the companies.

According to the Credit Suisse report, these companies received over $126 m from Russian arms companies in 2007-2008. The biggest share went to Belinea Services Ltd, Seychelles. It received over $60 million from Russian companies.

The report mentions that Cottage Consultants has received "EUR 28.1 mn from State Corporation Rosonboronexport, EUR 4.7 million from PJSC RAC * MIG * and EUR 9.7 mn from ABC," since October 2007. The report links this money to the offsets business.

"PJSC RAC MIG is the leading Russian industrial corporation for design, production, sale, logisitics, support of aeronautical engineering. The flow of funds for these transfers was incoming funds from clients offset business," says the report.

On Belinea, the report says” “Since Oct 1st 2007 there have been inflows of EUR 60.88 mn and outflows of EUR 23.6 mn. The in and out flows mirror that of Cottage Consultants limited in that EUR 37.2 mn were received from State Corporation Rosoboronexport, EUR 18.85 mn from ABC $2 mn from JSC MIC NPO".


All-in-all the Russian firms are alleged to have transferred ~ €70 mil to Chaudhrie's two companies (₹ 525 crore at the current rate).

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Lalmohan » 16 Aug 2017 20:07

look at the source of the article, then consider who gains from the headline...

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby sudeepj » 16 Aug 2017 21:17

Philip wrote:Can't we get some more official light on the issue? It's becoming a crashing bore when you read that Akash (CAG) has failed 30% of the time,again,some problem with propellant,etc.,.


First stop posting Russian propaganda sites such as sputnik. And your repetitive Russian propaganda is a crashing bore.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby shiv » 16 Aug 2017 21:22

Remember the Paki with brain amoebiasis who bet on an India-Pakistan match and lost the bet? He said, never mind, there's a replay on TV tomorrow I'll bet again and maybe I'll win. Anyhow the joke goes something like that.

The reason I say this is that we know damn well that the media will all resort to sensationalism and lies either to attract views, or are getting paid to do that. So we collect up a bunch of irritating reports, curse them and say "Let's look for more reports" like the Paki betting on replay. Like a brain injured person who slips in and out of consciousness, coherent and alert for some time and raving another time - we keep compulsively looking at media reports and swinging between depression and elation.

Personally I do not believe any report whatsoever - and nowadays there are too many reports. And to some extent there is deliberate obfuscation. The armed forces and the government sometimes treat the media like Modi does. Mostly ignore, don't invite and give standard controlled inputs to them

Every time the armed forces have been media friendly they have got bitten in their asses -be it Cargill or Cashmere. JMT

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Viv S » 16 Aug 2017 22:25

Lalmohan wrote:look at the source of the article, then consider who gains from the headline...

??

Who does? Doesn't seem to have any American connection. The reports also indict Rolls-Royce for making illegal payoffs so it's unlikely the story was cooked up by the British. And the French don't have any influence over the UK SFO or our CBI & ED that are investigating the matter.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 17 Aug 2017 01:38

Philip, The Sputnik article rehashes the known information on Dhanush.

It's not new information.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 17 Aug 2017 10:43

Tx.Thought it was new.

There is an in-depth article on the state of OFB,ammo issues,etc. in a recent journo. What has happened in India is that as the armed forces and para/police demands have grown,modernisation,of factories,production,supply and esp. storage have languished. Thus a significant % is sub-std. and when stored badly goes kaput.It is exactly like the state of civil supplies ,lack of sufficient warehouses,where millions of tons of food every year go rotting,huge stocks kept under tarpaulin/plastic. Storage faciilties are also required near the border and appear not to have kept pace with the spread of expanded threats.The need to produce more means corners are cut.

This is a problem across the board in independent India.Once we acquire something,erect a new school,station,bus stand,public building,etc.,its annual maintenance is left to the devil. Funds earmarked for such are squandered,transferred to something else or embezzeled. WE saw this in the case of sub batteries when after the fire in a Kilo sub that cost lives,the cannibalisation of batteries issue came out as AKA had sat tight for aeons on decisions and procurement of sub spares,support,etc. Adm.Joshi resigned in disgust.

Media reports today.There's just one hangar for 14 IL-76s and 6 IL-78 tankers,The CAG said that it had adversely affected the availability and life of the aircraft! I'm sure many have observed at an air base doubling as a civvy airport,dozens of MKIs out in the open.Has this been one reason why MKI availability has been affected? You remember what happened after the Airbus crash at BLR many,many years ago when they were first acquired? All aircraft were grounded and left to rot in the blazing heat and the avionics suffered.

When M2Ks were acquired,they required air-con hangars if I remember right and a few went for a burton when the false ceiling collapsed at some point. Unless this attitude changes across the nation and esp in the armed forces who are the most disciplined of the lot,our acquisitions costing tens of billions will suffer this avoidable fate.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 17 Aug 2017 20:51

Philip: This is the artillery discussion thread. Just sayin' :)

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Aug 2017 03:00

vivS - certain news agencies exist for very specific purposes. that is one of them. if taking one pinch of salt with source x, take a fistful with source y

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 19 Aug 2017 03:07

Philip

There is an in-depth article on the state of OFB, ammo issues, etc. in a recent journo.


Please answer in the OFB thread if you know more details.

Thanks, ramana

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Aug 2017 03:41

http://idrw.org/drdo-plans-to-revive-self-propelled-artillery-bhim-howitzer-project/

DRDO plans to revive Self-Propelled Artillery ” BHIM Howitzer” Project

Published April 24, 2016 SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

After been in Cold Storage for more than a decade , DRDO now plans to revive 155m 52 Calibre Self-Propelled Artillery Gun mounted on Arjun MBT derivative chassis soon said a well-informed source close to idrw.org . BHIM Project had cleared all Indian Army user trials before South African state-owned Company Denel was blacklisted amid corruption charges which had co-developed BHIM with DRDO and had also provided its 155mm / L52 howitzer Gun for the project. DRDO has not officially explained how it plans to source the new gun but many Industrial experts believe that DRDO fight source new Gun neither from Kalyani or use modified derivative Gun from in-house Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) project currently been developed with partnership with Kalyani and TATA . The vehicle is equipped with 1400 hp power pack and state-of-the-art hydro-gas suspension. BHIM was appreciated by Indian Army for its High mobility and exceptional ballistics coming together with comprehensive subsystems making BHIM one of the finest 155mm 52 Calibre Self-Propelled Artillery Gun which was one step from entering Production . Indian Army due to uncertainty in ‘Bhim’ howitzer project went for International tender and now is in the process to place orders for K9 Vajra-T, the 155-mm/52-caliber self-propelled howitzer artillery gun co-developed by Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and Samsung Techwin. Indian Army plans to procure 100 K9 Vajra-T likely to be followed up with the purchase of additional 50 more K9 Vajra-T at a later stage but Army requirement might be for over 500 such howitzer artillery gun which might have prompted DRDO to bring the focus back to BHIM Project.



Is anything more happening on this front?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Pratyush » 19 Aug 2017 11:09

Why go for a domestic product at this time. When the k 9 has already been selected and approved for production. It will take 5 years for the product to reach prototype stage and another 3 to 4 years of trials. After which orders will be placed.

The better option would be to eliminate the mounted gun catagory all together and replace them with the k 9. The will confirm orders for nearly 1000 SPH guns.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 19 Aug 2017 12:08

The DRDO story is 1 year old.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby jayasimha » 19 Aug 2017 15:29

July 2017

Present and Futuristic Trends in Weapon System
A.K. Roy*, P.H. Lankennavar, and V.S. Ghadge
Armament Research and Development Establishment, Pune - 411 021, India

http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... 11441/5960

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:14

deejay wrote:Rohitvats blog on antitank missile:

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2017/08/indian-army-and-anti-tank-guided.html

...
As the write-up shows, Indian Army has a varied types of anti-tank guided missiles depending upon usage and platform. In pure number terms, the total requirement is in excess of 85,00 missiles of different types.

The recent order for Spike-MR fills only one, albeit large, part of the overall requirement. If the infantry battalions indeed use a mix of short and long range ATGM, then Spike-MR represents replacement of only the short range version i.e. Milan/Milan-2T. The field is wide open for replacement of Konkur-M in long range ATGM for the infantry. CLGM mentioned above has the attributes to be this replacement. It remains to be seen whether CLGM/CLGM derived missile is the answer or we import another missile. Spike family has the Spike-LR version and Israelis will sure push it. Considering that Konkur-M are going strong, I think domestic R&D establishment still has some time on their hand to offer a credible solution for this requirement.

But induction of Spike-MR does mean that doors for US made Javelin ATGM are more or less closed. It does not make sense for an army to operate two man-portable ATGMs. It might so happen that IA may import some units for specialized formations like special forces. But even this seems absurd.

BMP-2 are slated for upgrade. One proposal from the Russians talks of re-arming the BMP-2 with four AT-14 Kornet missiles; these are placed on either side of the turret in a ready-to-fire pack of two. With DRDO making progress with CLGM, it remains to be seen if it can be adapted for BMP-2 upgrade. Between infantry's long range ATGM requirement and BMP-2 upgrade, CLGM/CLGM derived missile has the potential to tap the biggest segment of ATGM in the army.

Recently, Indian Army has expressed interest for next generation tank fired ATGM for its T-90 fleet. And it seems the T-72 main gun (2A46M) is also likely to be updated with T-90 main gun (2A46-M5). This will permit upgraded T-72 to fire ATGM from the main gun. CLGM was developed for 120mm rifled main gun of Arjun tank while T-72/T-90 have 125mm main guns. It remains to be see whether DRDO bites the bullet and delivers a new missile for T-90/T-72 fleet or India goes for missile from abroad.

Finally, NAG seems to that much closer to clearing the final hurdle. This one missile represents a phenomenal jump in anti-tank capability of the army. The missile is capable of defeating any present or future tank which is likely to see service on western or eastern borders. It induction in the army will give formidable anti-tank capability to its infantry/mechanized formations.

Same goes for HELINA. The Army Aviation Corp (AAC) is slated for massive expansion, especially in the attack helicopter domain. IA plans to induct 60 Rudra and 114 Light Combat Helicopters. It is but common sense that a domestic missile serves this massive requirement.

As things stand today, India can fulfill about 80%-85% of ATGM requirement across multiple platforms. All it requires is for the R&D establishment to work out realistic and achievable goals. And for the Indian Army to ensure good does not become the enemy of the best and that it works closely with the R&D establishment to work on this road-map.
...


Good news indeed .. the Army will be prepared for a full assault the next time the Pak musharaffs try one in India

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby JayS » 20 Aug 2017 21:09

Singha wrote:in wonder if arty regiments could make use of small forklift trucks that warehouses and construction sites use to move around pallets of ammo once they are dropped off by trucks. easier than doing it by hand imo and these forklifts are easily transportable incl by air and Mi17.
even construction sites have taken to using a crane fixed onto a truck to lift large pallets of the hollow cinder blocks used to make todays buildings

these puppies are cheap but useful and rugged


OT, but came across this - 6x6 with crane for IA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoFOPPoSAYw

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Gyan » 21 Aug 2017 19:39

It seems no one read the news that K9 exploded killing 5 Korean soldiers and in 5 years it had only 1700 malfunctions. Seems like T-90 type of reliability. So both T-90 and K9 are bhai bhai & import mummy ka dulara but only Arjun & Dhanush gets kicked.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 22 Aug 2017 04:39

Where is Dhanush kicked hainji?
Currently it is a lethal weapon - to own troops!

What kind of malfunctions? Context is everything and without that it is all as the saying goes: "lies, damned lies and Statistics!

I am sure you have drilled down and know more. Pray tell.

Import dulara etc are uncalled for terms - you tar everyone with the same brush....

Imagine Denel had not been blacklisted we could have the bhim in service no? From my sources good platform.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 16:37

yes Denel was a good platform. It was unfortunate what happened. But Dhanush will see the light of the day. These are teething issues. Please don't come up with conspiracy theories. There are enough people sending unsigned letters to derail armed forces modernization anyway.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Gyan » 22 Aug 2017 17:28

As per Chaiwalla Denel also had serious issues during Trials. So a K-9 explodes but it is not a problem but unspecified problem with Dhanush or new INSAS had media going after it. Noone to offer whisky & women to DDM? What's left there to spoil the reputation of T90 = 100% failure in Russia and K9 self exploding malfunctioning tin can.

Take above post of Sachin, he calls Dhanush lethal to own troops without open source info but ignores detailed CAG reports of t90 barrels exploding and k9 imploding if not malfunctioning.

ks_sachin
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 22 Aug 2017 19:07

There is a problem with the dhanush or the ammo but we dont know which and that is know unless you consider three instances even before induction where the ammo has hit the muzzle break not a problem! Statistically that occurs in a batch of 6 or 10 guns what happens if this problem is not resolved and we have 400 odd guns inducted! think of the troops using it or they cannon fodder for you?

Once they identify the problem it will be inducted. Since two wrongs do not make a right do you suggest they induct without knowing what the problem is. What world do you live in..you think this stuff will be open source!!

Am I talking about the insas or arjun or t-90 - that is another story but especially with INSAS what came out of OFB less said the better...the bn armourer was quite busy lets say..i dare say if the manufacturing quality had been any good then we would not have the DDM segway into it and hijack that narrative...

Denel may have ad serious issues but there was momentum behind it and it could have been inducted. Alas we will never know. Its your chaiwala vs my chaiwalas!

The k-9 is a good platform and in the absence of a domestic alternative pray tell what...plus what was the reason for k9 imploding? one implosion without you detailing the fact as to why exactly means diddly squat!! Afterall it is not as if we are the only army using or planning to use the system yes?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 22 Aug 2017 19:33

Gyan: In addition to what Sachin saar said above, can you please list the 1,700 malfunctions that the K9 had in the past five years?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 19:38

That is exactly why there is a well set out testing process - so that issues can be identified and solutions found. Dhanush is going through that process and once it is done it will inducted. May I urge posters from desisting with conspiracy theories. The ministry and the army are fully behind the efforts on Dhanush. In fact the army has been a prime leader in this.

There were indeed serious issues with the INSAS and attempts have been made to address them as they came up. However they have not been uniformly successful.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 19:43

Kindly realise one reality - our system works in such a way that a minor dust particle can clog up the whole process and then we fall even further behind in modernization of the forces. A single letter making wild allegations can derail years of painstaking work on procurement of a critical item. There are various motivations behind the letter and sometimes we even have some idea who has done it but we cannot do much. It has to be investigated and depending upon the policy at that time it can be a minor irritant or a catastrophic stoppage of the process.

shiv
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby shiv » 22 Aug 2017 19:44

Vidur90 wrote: May I urge posters from desisting with conspiracy theories.

:lol: Wear a helmet. On BRF this is the same as breaking your head against a brick wall.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Pratyush » 22 Aug 2017 19:47

While we are conncerned with the various issues that he been facced by the dhanush. In would like to ask about the 155 mm upgrade of the m 46. Both the guna have 45 cal barrel

So how was the fuse related issue not identified when the upgrade was taking place. Iirc the m 46 155 45 cal upgrade from sultan took place yearly 15 years ago.
Last edited by Pratyush on 22 Aug 2017 20:01, edited 1 time in total.

ks_sachin
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 22 Aug 2017 19:52

Shiv saar. part of me also come here to read your posts..

infact would be happy if this became the BR group!! too much noise at times feels like a bawarchikhana if you get my drift....

Incidentally bennedose brought back lots of childhood memories of Davangere...


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