Artillery: News & Discussion

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 14 Jan 2017 07:35

sohamn wrote:Dhanush is self propelled but not a track or truck mounted artillery. It has a small engine which enables it to shoot and scoot. where the reporter got confused is that Dhanush is not 155/52 but is a 155/45 caliber artillery. These DDM reports know little that there is another artillery in development by DRDO known as ATAGS which is 155/52 caliber.

According to the Swarajya in 2015

Work on version 2 of the Dhanush is already in progress. It is going to be an upgraded version from the current 155mm/45 caliber to 155mm/52 caliber. This is a parallel program that the OFB has undertaken on its own and will compete with the Advanced Towed Artillery System which is a 155mm/52 caliber howitzer which is being developed by India’s Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) in association with Indian private sector companies.

http://swarajyamag.com/politics/finally ... s-dhanush/

It's unclear if the final inventory of Dhanush will include a mix of 155/45 and 155/52 or are they all going to be 155/45 with 155/52 solely comprised of ATAGS.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Jan 2017 07:50

I always thought that the original 39 cal could be upgraded to 52 cal. Am happy to note that the OFB has taken the initiative to do it.

What change political leadership brings. 5years ago I was moaning and bitching that I will be a grand parent before we get any new 155s to the army. And here I am looking at 5 different products to be inducted in the Army.

155 mm dhanush
Atags
M 777
K9
Truck mounted 155

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 14 Jan 2017 12:02

^^ Have we finalized Truck mounted Gun already ? I believe No.

kit · Post by **kit** » 14 Jan 2017 12:12

What wonders we can see once GOI moves it's act .. compare the artillery sector now to 5 years back !!

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Jan 2017 17:18

Rakesh wrote:Successful Pinaka guided rocket test portends boost to army firepower
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2017/01/s ... -test.html

{Rest Snipped}

For good order our Ministry of Defence official press release on the test of the “Guided Pinaka” Rocket via PIB:

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
12-January-2017 19:26 IST

Successful Test Firing of Guided Pinaka

The Pinaka Rocket converted to a Guided Pinaka was successfully test-fired from Launch Complex-III, ITR, Chandipur today. The Pinaka Rocket Mark-II, which evolved from Pinaka Mark-I is equipped with a navigation, guidance and control kit and has been transformed to a Guided Pinaka. This conversion has considerably enhanced the range and accuracy of Pinaka. The test-firing has met all mission objectives. The radars, electro-optical and telemetry systems at Chandipur tracked and monitored the vehicle all through the flight-path. The Guided Pinaka is developed jointly by ARDE Pune, RCI Hyderabad and DRDL Hyderabad. ITR Chandipur provided the range and launch support.

Dr. K.M. Rajan, Director ARDE, Pune, Shri B.H.V.S. Narayana Murthy, Director, RCI, Hyderabad, Dr. B.K. Das, Director, ITR, Chandipur and Shri R. Appavuraj, Director, PXE, Chandipur monitored the launch operations. An Armed Forces team witnessed the flight test. Dr. G. Satheesh Reddy, SA to Raksha Mantri was present during the test firing.

Raksha Mantri, Shri Manohar Parrikar has congratulated the DRDO, industry and the Armed Forces for the successful flight-test. Shri P.K. Mehta, DG (ACE) and Dr. S. Christopher, Secretary, Deptt. of Defence R&D and Chairman, DRDO, also congratulated all the teams that participated in the successful test firing.

NW/RAJ
(Release ID :157308)

Clicky PIB

Presumably the Guided Pinaka rocket used Israeli supplied Trajectory Correction System (TCS) manufactured by IMI Systems:

TCS - Trajectory Correction System for Artillery Rockets

mody · Post by **mody** » 14 Jan 2017 18:18

Is there any move to upgrade the existing bofors gun to Dhanush standard? OFB has already been making barrels for the B77 guns.
I think we still have about 250 guns in operation and all of them can be upgraded to the Dhanush standard.

The production for Dhanush guns should be expanded to about a 100 guns per year from next year and the total order increased to about 300 guns. The original plan was to produce about 414 guns. With the ATAGS prototypes now ready, they can enter production around 2019-2020 timeframe. This would be enough time to produce about 300 Dhanush guns and also upgrade about 250 existing bofors guns to Dhanush standard.
The big boost in the artillery program should also be used to improve the efficiency of OFBs and maybe the vehicles factory Jabalpur, can be taken over by GCF. Stallion trucks and all other vehicles can be produced by the private sector. No need for OFB to do screw drivergiri on kits delivered by Ashok Leyland or others.

Maybe OFB can also offer the M46 upgrade package to countries like Vietnam. Vietnam has a lot of M46 guns and we can offer them an upgrade to 155mm/39 or 45 caliber standard. GCF already has this solution developed. We can also supply them with 155mm ammunition as well.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Jan 2017 00:37

Kashi wrote:....It's unclear if the final inventory of Dhanush will include a mix of 155/45 and 155/52 or are they all going to be 155/45 with 155/52 solely comprised of ATAGS.

Dhanush 52 Cal is a competing product with ATAGS, former from OFB while latter from DRDO.

Overall improves Army's chances of getting a 52 cal gun in some form or the other.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Jan 2017 00:39

kit wrote:What wonders we can see once GOI moves it's act .. compare the artillery sector now to 5 years back !!

One must give credit to Parrikar for this. Ever since he took charge the MoD is acting like a clearing house for all pent up defence deals - big and small. I really like his analytical style and practical approach.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Jan 2017 00:47

BAE Systems starts production of Howitzers for India
Deliveries commence in June 2017
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=249883

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Jan 2017 05:12

Does anybody know if the guidance system of Pinaka is an in house development or an adaptation of IMI/Honeywell system?

In Def Expo'16, Alpha Design had also showcased a trajectory correction system in collaboration with MBDA.

Somebody had asked whether there is a thrust vectoring system on guided rockets. Not, in the real sens. he rocket motor burns out during the ascent phase. Thereafter it becomes a ballistic projectile except for inputs from the control unit housed in the nose. This inputs either small pulse motors, up to 80, each of them producing small impulse, or deflection of canards, or both. State-of-art systems can achieve a CEP of less than ten meters immaterial of the range.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Jan 2017 07:34

Okay. Found out. It is the Alpha+MBDA combo.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 15 Jan 2017 08:13

Indranil, is that correct - up to 80 pulse motors on one rocket? Or should it be 8?

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 15 Jan 2017 08:38

Aditya G wrote:
kit wrote:What wonders we can see once GOI moves it's act .. compare the artillery sector now to 5 years back !!
One must give credit to Parrikar for this. Ever since he took charge the MoD is acting like a clearing house for all pent up defence deals - big and small. I really like his analytical style and practical approach.

Before everyone jumps with joy... India needs a minimum of 3000 155mm guns. Lets get them, deploy them, then give credit to parrikar's analytical genius. But yes things are moving forward - not fast enough though

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Jan 2017 08:43

PratikDas wrote:Indranil, is that correct - up to 80 pulse motors on one rocket? Or should it be 8?

the very first IMI system had 80. IIT Kanpur was studying a system for the BM-21. They required up to 36 firings in some simulations.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Jan 2017 09:05

Rishikesh relax, even if the a tags fails, the backup is the OFB danush with a 52 call barel. After that it's only a matter of time before all other requirements can be met by OFB itself. So I am quite happy with the prospects of new guns.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 18 Jan 2017 12:21

Both models of ATAGS marching in Republic Day Parade.

See pictures from front and side.. they are quite different. Hope this wouldn't create logistics issue.

And there is Dhanush marching as well.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/galleri ... 83--4.html

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 18 Jan 2017 14:44

ashishvikas wrote:Both models of ATAGS marching in Republic Day Parade.

See pictures from front and side.. they are quite different. Hope this wouldn't create logistics issue.

And there is Dhanush marching as well.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/galleri ... 83--4.html

These are two prototype designs, the plan is to select one and build them by two vendors.

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 18 Jan 2017 17:08

Courtesy: New Indian Express

The above image of ATAGs has larger foot print than the classic G5 towed setup.

In G5 the barrel is pointed backwards.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 18 Jan 2017 19:06

Its exactly the same as the G5. Its being towed to show off not to transport! Look at the keyring holder near the truck for the barrel to rest on.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Jan 2017 19:43

I can see more than a small amount of Fh 77 lineage in both the designs. All in all I am happy for all the new 155 mm that are under trails and under manufacture for Indian Army.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 18 Jan 2017 20:05

Quick doubt, will they be towed or will they be moving on their APU power?? For PR purposes, I believe moving under their own power would deliver more punch than being towed.
Just 2 paisa..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jan 2017 20:14

the APU might be useful for self parking and moving around a little bit but useless for road cruising or in tough mud....a powerful truck has to haul this baby off mostly always.

note the box containing the muzzle velocity radar ahead of the shock absorbers.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Jan 2017 22:38

Watervliet Arsenal receives largest contract in decades to support ... the Indian Army
https://www.army.mil/article/180746/

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 19 Jan 2017 01:39

Courtesy: New Indian Express

1. Anybody knows which prototype is whose? I know somebody at IDRW has a theory, but its IDRW.
2. The pictures from the Balasore tests show the prototype with the shiny APU exhaust (nearer to us). Any confirmation of the other prototype in trial?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 19 Jan 2017 01:40

Indranil wrote:Okay. Found out. It is the Alpha+MBDA combo.

from Saurav Jha....I am sure you can guess what this is?

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/568903317432086528

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Jan 2017 07:59

The far one is the design from bharat forge based on the carriage design. The near one looks like a deravative of the G5.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 19 Jan 2017 08:35

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 19 Jan 2017 08:35

Indranil wrote:
Courtesy: New Indian Express

1. Anybody knows which prototype is whose? I know somebody at IDRW has a theory, but its IDRW.
2. The pictures from the Balasore tests show the prototype with the shiny APU exhaust (nearer to us). Any confirmation of the other prototype in trial?

The one behind is from Bharat Forge and the one closer is from TATA (based on link you shared earlier https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVpTgBxnOvg/ ... TAGS-2.jpg)

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 19 Jan 2017 08:54

Are they going to go with only one the designs or will the "fuse" them together to come up with final model?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 19 Jan 2017 10:59

Rakesh wrote:Watervliet Arsenal receives largest contract in decades to support ... the Indian Army
https://www.army.mil/article/180746/

Sadly, we do not leverage these benefits politically, diplomatically or commercially. Hoping for the day our negotiating team across MoD, MoF & MEA jointly get maximum benefit for us, including ToT. Presently Mahindra will just screwdriver these guns from US manufactured CKD/SKD kits.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Jan 2017 11:35

Moreover the barrel re-presents the crown keep of any gun. What if the barrels have to be changed. After exhausting the lives.

We need to find a way to bring in the barrel manufacturing technology to India.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 19 Jan 2017 11:40

Pratyush wrote:Moreover the barrel re-presents the crown keep of any gun. What if the barrels have to be changed. After exhausting the lives.

We need to find a way to bring in the barrel manufacturing technology to India.

Since Bharat Forge acquired Noricum, shouldn't they have complete access to Barrel manufacturing technology as well? They also seem to be working diligently on using Titanium alloys for their ULH.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jan 2017 12:07

the BF one seems to have a small fh77 type crane while the Tata one has no crane visible.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jan 2017 12:12

I stand corrected even the tata has it

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVpTgBxnOvg/ ... TAGS-2.jpg

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Jan 2017 13:41

Pratyush wrote:Moreover the barrel re-presents the crown keep of any gun. What if the barrels have to be changed. After exhausting the lives. We need to find a way to bring in the barrel manufacturing technology to India.

Barrel for ATAGS is being manufactured by OFB. IIRC, they mastered this technique after studying the original Bofors documents. Dhanush barrels are in-house.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Jan 2017 15:23

Rohit, I am referring to the M777. Not the domestic guns.

If the barrels for the m777 are in house . Then I stand corrected.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 19 Jan 2017 15:52

M777 barrels are titanium - unkil will not part with the tech, nor the Ti

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2017 04:41

Rohitvats I want to hear about fuzes for all these guns.
Who makes them? What types? How many have been ordered?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 20 Jan 2017 10:33

ramana wrote:Rohitvats I want to hear about fuzes for all these guns.
Who makes them? What types? How many have been ordered?

No idea, to be honest. But let me look around and will revert in few days.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 20 Jan 2017 12:07

Sid wrote:
Indranil wrote:
Courtesy: New Indian Express

1. Anybody knows which prototype is whose? I know somebody at IDRW has a theory, but its IDRW.
2. The pictures from the Balasore tests show the prototype with the shiny APU exhaust (nearer to us). Any confirmation of the other prototype in trial?
The one behind is from Bharat Forge and the one closer is from TATA (based on link you shared earlier https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVpTgBxnOvg/ ... TAGS-2.jpg)

You are right. I was over thinking. To me, the other one looks a little like the back of a 8X8 or 6X6. I was thinking, which company has that ready made?