Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shaun » 23 Mar 2015 21:30

^^^^
Point missing which actually is the main point specially in defense industries is R&D. The SoKo companies depicted above have a robust product line ranging from electronics to ship building, from designing to manufacturing. Reliance and their likes will go the easy way , they will make JV with foreign companies to seal deal in offset clauses . The product assembled ( actually component outsourced from foreign maker ), will have only reliance tag beside the foreign maker but will share the profit coming out of it. What reliance can actually do is they can invest in Indian SMEs or MSEs dealing with defense products , which will help these enterprises to scale up and also do R&D in new products , that will actually help in true expertise and capacity building for India. See the way TATA , L&T , Godrej & Boyace doing business.

Reliance can never become a true conglomerate, in the likes of Samsung or Hyundai etc in its present form and money making mindset.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Viv S » 23 Mar 2015 21:58

Philip wrote:What have we been saying for aeons? That the US will never divorce itself from rent-boy Pak!

LOL. There's a difference between a national policy forum and a PR event for foreign journalists.

So what has all the bonhomie with the USN been for? We are being royally duped by the US,duplcitous as usual,"white man speaks with forked tongue"

Duped into doing what? We aren't allies, nor are we likely to be. Is the Russian embrace of China (and outreach to Pakistan) also some sort of racial thing?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 23 Mar 2015 23:10

The CTF-151is a stupid counter piracy force. Yes pakis having been supplying one of their rust buckets for the CTF-151 for a while now. While IN and ICGS ships regularly patrol the gulf of aden for pirates on their own these nations need the USN umbrella to do anything.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srin » 23 Mar 2015 23:30

I wonder under what ROE it operated. I mean, wouldn't the US commanders be afraid of someone attempting a PNS Zulfiqar on them ? My guess would be that the PN vessel would have all weapons disabled and USN officer stationed to ensure they remain so.

Anyway, kind of OT for this thread.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Suraj » 24 Mar 2015 00:47

Shaun wrote:^^^^
Point missing which actually is the main point specially in defense industries is R&D. The SoKo companies depicted above have a robust product line ranging from electronics to ship building, from designing to manufacturing. Reliance and their likes will go the easy way , they will make JV with foreign companies to seal deal in offset clauses . The product assembled ( actually component outsourced from foreign maker ), will have only reliance tag beside the foreign maker but will share the profit coming out of it. What reliance can actually do is they can invest in Indian SMEs or MSEs dealing with defense products , which will help these enterprises to scale up and also do R&D in new products , that will actually help in true expertise and capacity building for India. See the way TATA , L&T , Godrej & Boyace doing business.

Reliance can never become a true conglomerate, in the likes of Samsung or Hyundai etc in its present form and money making mindset.

There's no such thing as a true conglomerate and false conglomerate. Reliance is simply getting into the business now, and they're a big enough fish to make a difference.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Mar 2015 10:11

The important point is that a US task force is headed by a sr. Paki naval officer in the Gulf.This is a qualitative difference ,not just joint exercises and certainly the remarks by the US admiral beyond the usual PR mouthings.It is an integration of the PN with the USN in joint offensive ops should the need arise. Imagine the complications when we have our next round of "argy-bargy" with Pak on the high seas.

The more the US denigrate and denounce Russia and Putin,as if he was a new Hitler,while they actually support the Neo-Nazis in the UKR,the more the US is bringing Russia and China closer together. Russia would very happily see part of the anti-US duties in the Asia-Pacific region be borne by China leaving its forces free to dominate the Arctic and other waters closer to home.

If the US still keeps on supporting Pak regardless of its terrorist war against India,expecting India to "grin and bear it",then it is very sadly mistaken.There is a point beyond which no Indian govt. will be allowed to go by the people of the country. The condemnation of Gen. VKS attending the Paki Day celebs while it was engaged in terror strikes in J&K is a warning across the party divide to our political/babu elite,many of whom still have sentiments about pre-Partition days.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby pankajs » 24 Mar 2015 15:15

Anantha Krishnan >

2nd batch of 3 Immediate Support Vessels #ISVs, comprising T-38, T-39 & T-40 commissioned today at Vizag. Pic: Navy
Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby adityadange » 24 Mar 2015 15:32

What are the two towers behind t38 and t39?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 24 Mar 2015 15:52

India wants to lease another Russian nuclear submarine — source

http://tass.ru/en/world/784537

"In January this year, the Indian side suggested transferring the second project 971 multipurpose nuclear submarine Kashalot for lease," the source said, adding "the Russian side is studying the issue."

"The procedure will most likely be similar to the procedure, which was used for transferring the first submarine called Nerpa (dubbed Charka by India) to the Indian side," the source said.

A representative of Russia’s ship-building industry also told TASS that "the Indian side is requesting to transfer this submarine to it for lease."

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_28840 » 24 Mar 2015 20:45

pankajs wrote:Image


adityadange wrote:What are the two towers behind t38 and t39?


There are actually 2 vessels behind the 3 ISVs. If you look closely you can make out that there are two sets of masts in front of the yellow tower. From the shape of the mast and the wheelhouse / bridge they look like 2 Pondicherry Class Minesweepers.

The big yellow tower itself is probably a crane, considering that it is in a dockyard...

If you want a real challenge, try to Identify the vessel on the extreme left of the image... the one that seems a little flat ...

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby bmallick » 24 Mar 2015 22:53

xave wrote:
pankajs wrote:Image



There are actually 2 vessels behind the 3 ISVs. If you look closely you can make out that there are two sets of masts in front of the yellow tower. From the shape of the mast and the wheelhouse / bridge they look like 2 Pondicherry Class Minesweepers.


The 2 vessels actually seem to be Osprey Class minehunter based on the wheelhouse/bridge & mast. 2 had been transferred to IN from USN in post Mumbai Attack.

Added Later: I am wrong. Even though the ships do look like tha Osprey class, there is no news confirming their sale to IN.
Last edited by bmallick on 24 Mar 2015 23:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby bmallick » 24 Mar 2015 23:07

xave wrote:
If you want a real challenge, try to Identify the vessel on the extreme left of the image... the one that seems a little flat ...


The extreme left image seems to be of INS Jalaswaha, based on the mast having three horizontal bars, with the lowest one seems to be having a radar mesh. Also we can see 2 white cylinders forward and aft, which corresponds to 2 Phalanx systems on the Jalashwa.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Viv S » 25 Mar 2015 03:03

Philip wrote:The important point is that a US task force is headed by a sr. Paki naval officer in the Gulf.This is a qualitative difference ,not just joint exercises and certainly the remarks by the US admiral beyond the usual PR mouthings.It is an integration of the PN with the USN in joint offensive ops should the need arise. Imagine the complications when we have our next round of "argy-bargy" with Pak on the high seas.

Except that its not a US task force. By definition. Command rotates between all participating nations including by nations like Bahrain. And it is silly to suggest that the task force has anything to do with 'offensive operations'. Its role is about as benign as a naval grouping can be. Indian generals have commanded Pakistani units in peacekeeping operations, does that make IA-PA 'joint offensive ops' a likelihood?

The more the US denigrate and denounce Russia and Putin,as if he was a new Hitler,while they actually support the Neo-Nazis in the UKR,the more the US is bringing Russia and China closer together. Russia would very happily see part of the anti-US duties in the Asia-Pacific region be borne by China leaving its forces free to dominate the Arctic and other waters closer to home.

So Putin was blocking Ukraine's EU aspirations because they were 'Neo-Nazis' huh? Didn't have anything to do with his pet-project; Eurasian Economic Union? In any case, I'm sorry this has caused you such grief, but eventually you're going to have to accept the fact that, like it or not, Russia & China are closer than ever and going to be more so in the days to come. The Ukrainian crisis only sped up the inevitable.

If the US still keeps on supporting Pak regardless of its terrorist war against India,expecting India to "grin and bear it",then it is very sadly mistaken.

The US military has suffered heavy casualties at the hands of ISI-backed groups and they still grit their teeth and bear it because they must. India on the other hand has been urging Obama to delay ISAF withdrawal from Afghanistan.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 25 Mar 2015 04:19

Stealth submarines upgraded for India could hit targets at sea and on land
Russian-built Varshavyanka (or Kilo class stealth) submarines, upgraded for India, could hit not only vessels, but also targets on land with cruise missiles, experts said. The modernization would also involve the submarines’ avionics.

After an upgrade, the Russian-made Indian ‘Varshavyanka’ submarines of Project 877 EKM will be able to strike not only vessels, but also ground targets with cruise missiles, Igor Vilnit, CEO of the CDB ME “Rubin” that designed the submarines, said.

He also said the possibilities of the strike missile complex Club-S, installed on these submarines, would be expanded, reports TASS.

“After the modernization, ships of 877EKM project will be able to use two types of missiles - 3M-54E against naval targets and 3M-14E against ground targets,” - Vilnit said.

In addition, the modernization process would involve part of the submarines' avionics.

“In some cases, the Indian side installs their own equipment. The architecture of the ship allows for it, as it has a substantial modernization potential,” the head of “Rubin” said.

The Russian ‘Varshavyanka’ stealth submarines, which are being built under project 636.3 for the Black Sea Fleet, is a further development of the project 877EKM. These submarines have been significantly upgraded and equipped with the latest weapon systems, electronics and acoustics for the Russian Navy.

In August last year, Andrey Baranov, “Rubin” deputy director of foreign trade and military-technical cooperation, reported that Russia has decided to offer assistance to India as reparation for all non-nuclear submarines. This is the second repair and extension of service life of nine diesel-electric submarines of Project 877 EKM, Baranov explained.

India had purchased ten ‘stealth’ submarines of Project 877 EKM (Kilo class) from Russia. After the loss of “Sindhurakshak” in 2013, nine vessels are left.

The Russian-built ‘Sindhurakshak’ submarine suffered a minor fire incident in 2010 and a major one on the night of 14 August 2013, followed by explosions which resulted in its sinking at Mumbai's naval dockyard, where it was riding at anchor. At the time of the incident there were 18 sailors on board, all of whom died.

Earlier, on February 26, 2014, also in Mumbai, smoke engulfed the ‘Sindhuratna’ submarine when it was at sea off Mumbai for routine training and inspection. The incident left two officers dead and seven injured. The probable cause of the accident was the leak of hydrogen in the battery compartment. Admiral DK Joshi, Chief of the Indian navy, resigned the same day, taking "moral responsibility" for the mishaps involving naval assets.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby A Sharma » 25 Mar 2015 06:19

NDTV Reporting Dornier crash

Panaji, Goa: A Dornier aircraft of the Indian Navy, which was on a routine training mission with three personnel on board, crashed last night about 25 nautical miles South West of Goa.

While one personnel has been rescued, two officers - a Captain and an Observer - are still missing.

The last contact with the aircraft was reported at 10.08 pm last night.

Full scale search and rescue operation has been launched with more than six warships and some aircraft pressed into service.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 25 Mar 2015 10:08

Tragic about the Dornier. It has had an excellent record thus far.Let's pray that the missing crew members are picked up safe. The Dornier is twin-engine and even if one engine failed would've been able to make it back.It must've been something catastrophic for it to have crashed.I posted earlier an amphib version of the same aircraft developed by Oz,which has flotation gear on the underside of the fuselage.Perhaps some of the new Dorniers planned for could opt for this device. It would enable the aircraft to land on the sea in any emergency. This also underscores the need for amphibs for the IN/CG asap.

The US bankrolls Pak,providing it with arms and money,which it has always used against India.It cares a fig for Indians killed by Paki terrorists and will never give up its lust for its rent-boy.The entire exercise behind Indo-US bum0chumming today from the US mindset is to turn India into cannon fodder to be used against China if a war with China takes place.It has also tried through every devious method for decades to make India compromise upon its sovereignty over Kashmir. The UKR crisis is all about the EU/NATO wanting to take over the country through its proxies,grow GM crops which the EU has banned on its soil,and station missiles right on Russia's border,breaking the agreement that Gorbachev and Reagan made ending the Cold War.Gorbachev,loved by the West has made some pithy statements as to who is responsible for the current crisis.read it in the appropriate link.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Anthony Hines » 25 Mar 2015 16:38

Philip wrote:Tragic about the Dornier. It has had an excellent record thus far.Let's pray that the missing crew members are picked up safe. The Dornier is twin-engine and even if one engine failed would've been able to make it back.It must've been something catastrophic for it to have crashed.I posted earlier an amphib version of the same aircraft developed by Oz,which has flotation gear on the underside of the fuselage.Perhaps some of the new Dorniers planned for could opt for this device. It would enable the aircraft to land on the sea in any emergency. This also underscores the need for amphibs for the IN/CG asap.


So far so good.
But what has this following paragraph got to do with the Dornier crash - please educate me about the connections. Unless this is yet another attempt to show US in a bad light and thereby put Mother Russia on a pedestal.. totally OT.

The US bankrolls Pak,providing it with arms and money,which it has always used against India.It cares a fig for Indians killed by Paki terrorists and will never give up its lust for its rent-boy.The entire exercise behind Indo-US bum0chumming today from the US mindset is to turn India into cannon fodder to be used against China if a war with China takes place.It has also tried through every devious method for decades to make India compromise upon its sovereignty over Kashmir. The UKR crisis is all about the EU/NATO wanting to take over the country through its proxies,grow GM crops which the EU has banned on its soil,and station missiles right on Russia's border,breaking the agreement that Gorbachev and Reagan made ending the Cold War.Gorbachev,loved by the West has made some pithy statements as to who is responsible for the current crisis.read it in the appropriate link.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 25 Mar 2015 22:35

These ISVs are a Spanish design built in Abu Dhabi. The Abu Dhabi builder has previosly supplied the SPB as well through its contract with Solar Marine Sri Lanka. How come none of the Indian yards could get this contract?

This ISV design uses water jets. I believe that makes it different from SHM Shipcase (sic) class of vessels which equipped the other squadrons.

Besides being armed with heavy machine guns (HMGs), state-of-the-art radar and navigation system, the ves sels are fitted with two caterpillar engines of 1,600 MHP each to provide water jet propulsion, which helps the vessels gain a high speed of 40 knots and an endurance of 500 nautical miles. These ships are capable of carrying out day and night surveillance and can be used for rapid insertions or extraction of MARCOS for military intervention. He said the induction and deployment of these ships will augment the ongoing efforts to bolster coastal security and provide protection to offshore assets from asymmetric threats. These ships will enhance Indian Navy's capability in furthering its mandate of maritime safety and security over the offshore development areas on the Eastern Sea Board.

Satish Soni said the Navy has proposed a base for the ISVs at Kakinada, where many offshore assets are located. "We have proposed a base at Kakinada for efficient surveillance and strengthening patrol at offshore assets.Two vessels will go for patrolling by rotation system," he said.

If there was a mother ship at Kakinada coast to keep the vessels, the vessels could be operated for longer durations, sources said. This is because the vessel could be run for 12 hours at a stretch. The journey between Visakhapatnam and Kakinada takes six hours. If they are based at Kakinada, they can be used for 12 hours at a stretch, sources said.


Philip wrote:...I posted earlier an amphib version of the same aircraft developed by Oz,which has flotation gear on the underside of the fuselage.Perhaps some of the new Dorniers planned for could opt for this device. It would enable the aircraft to land on the sea in any emergency. This also underscores the need for amphibs for the IN/CG asap. ...


Sounds interesting ... could you find the picture again please.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 25 Mar 2015 23:24



Look like there is provision for 2 x 8 Barak 1 missiles, but not fitted. Hopefully SRSAM should find its way there, or Barak-1 from soon-to-be-decommissioned Godavari & Ranvir classes.

If the RPK-8 system is replaced by 8 BrahMos VLS, then we'll have a general purpose low cost mini-frigate packing quite a punch. A real littoral combat ship that can be built in numbers.

I would prefer a class of such ships to replace Kukhri, Kora, Veer & Abhay class ships.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vishvak » 26 Mar 2015 00:04

--delete-- point made already in another thread.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 26 Mar 2015 02:49

Tsarkar

Thanks for your insight but what makes you say there is provision for barak 1? Without removing ak 630 they cant be fitted in IMO.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 26 Mar 2015 10:17

Tsarkar,the IN should look at designing and building a multi-purpose hull which can accommodate different eqpt. for diff. roles required.The Danes have been v.good at this. Soviets too with the same hull/dunking sonar for Tarantula missile boats/ Pauk ASW corvettes/ Kamov ASW helos. Similarly,survey vessels and minesweepers also require a variety of specialized sonars,and need to operate specialised eqpt. from the stern. A common hull could perhaps be designed for both types.The same hull could be sued for AGI vessels too.

The Kamortas seem to have space amidships for installing Klub/Uran class SSMs,but their primary role being ASW,they should have an additional better longer ranged ASW weapon system like ASW Medvedka,etc.,or even the ASW Klub variant which can be fired either from TTs or from silos/launchers. Barak-1 + the usual 30mm gatlings can be fitted on either side of the hangar as in the larger FFG/DDG arrangements. For a longer ranged ASW weapon though,the vessel must have sonars capable of detecting and targeting subs out to at least 50KM.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 26 Mar 2015 13:33

John wrote:Tsarkar

Thanks for your insight but what makes you say there is provision for barak 1? Without removing ak 630 they cant be fitted in IMO.


Besides the rear structure ... Below the lynx u2. On either side. Earlier there were lifeboats there.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 26 Mar 2015 16:12

@John - Like Aditya correctly pointed out, there is spare for Barak-1/SRSAM next to the rear BEL Shikari / Lynx radar.

@Philip - yes, if we make the propulsion plant one LM2500 GT for sprint + one diesel for cruise, then we have an all rounder ship.

Problem of Tarantul class is lack of range, and problem of Abhay & Kora class is lack of weapons & sensors for all purposes. A modified Kamorta class can fulfill all these shortcomings.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 26 Mar 2015 16:33

Only problem, P-28s are. the size of a Nilgiri class FFG. Too large and too expensive to be mass produced. A smaller corvette of around 1500-1750tmax would be ideal.Remember the Nanuchka (Durg) class corvettes? They could carry 6 SSMs,an SAN-4 SAM launcher,57mm DP gun,plus 30mm gatlings and IGLAs,all around 700t.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 26 Mar 2015 18:12

What is our requirement? 'slash and dash' type ships which will leave port immediately to meet aggressors at sea, akin to MiGs on ORP duty. Or a ship with higher persistence?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 26 Mar 2015 20:30

tsarkar wrote:@John - Like Aditya correctly pointed out, there is spare for Barak-1/SRSAM next to the rear BEL Shikari / Lynx radar.

Problem of Tarantul class is lack of range, and problem of Abhay & Kora class is lack of weapons & sensors for all purposes. A modified Kamorta class can fulfill all these shortcomings.


I don't think that area can support a barak. Regardless Barak needs to integrated with 3D CAR and this would require israeli help. Integrating it with Fregat proved to be quite challenging.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 26 Mar 2015 20:49

@Aditya - Good Question.

The prima facie requirement is dash capabilities. Dash to save own harbor or attack enemy harbour.

However, problem with dash ships is lack of endurance. The Osa class boats were towed by Petya class frigates and that combination will be vulnerable to air & submarine attacks.

The Veer & Durg classes have the same challenge. Very limited endurance. So they'll need to be towed to Pakistan. Presently Sukanya class OPV's are earmarked for towing Veer class corvettes.

Also, Veer, Durg & Kukhri classes are Anti Ship, Abhay & Kamorta class are anti submarine. None have Anti Air capabilities.

BTW the Kamorta (Petya) class that led the attack boats had excellent AA capabilities via radar guided 2 x 2 76 mm automatic guns sufficiently long ranged by the standards of those days, and excellent ASW capabilities via hull mounted sonar and 533 mm torpedo tubes. Its a pity those ships were not available against PNS Hangor.

So a class of (small) ships with Anti Air, Anti Ship and Anti Submarine capabilities can take the war to enemy shores. A gas turbine can provide sprint/dash capabilities while a diesel can provide cruise capabilities.

@Philip, yes, but given the times we live in, P28 Kamorta is a corvette. The first destroyer HMS Havoc of 1893 was 270 tonnes, half the displacement of the Veer/Tarantul class!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sohamn » 26 Mar 2015 23:10

[quote/]
The US bankrolls Pak,providing it with arms and money,which it has always used against India.It cares a fig for Indians killed by Paki terrorists and will never give up its lust for its rent-boy.The entire exercise behind Indo-US bum0chumming today from the US mindset is to turn India into cannon fodder to be used against China if a war with China takes place.It has also tried through every devious method for decades to make India compromise upon its sovereignty over Kashmir. The UKR crisis is all about the EU/NATO wanting to take over the country through its proxies,grow GM crops which the EU has banned on its soil,and station missiles right on Russia's border,breaking the agreement that Gorbachev and Reagan made ending the Cold War.Gorbachev,loved by the West has made some pithy statements as to who is responsible for the current crisis.read it in the appropriate link.[/quote]


Why do you rant so much ? And how is this relevant to the Dornier Crash. If you want to convince someone then please provide facts and figures. Constant ranting makes you look like a communist grandpa.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sohamn » 26 Mar 2015 23:14

Philip wrote:Tsarkar,the IN should look at designing and building a multi-purpose hull which can accommodate different eqpt. for diff. roles required.The Danes have been v.good at this. Soviets too with the same hull/dunking sonar for Tarantula missile boats/ Pauk ASW corvettes/ Kamov ASW helos. Similarly,survey vessels and minesweepers also require a variety of specialized sonars,and need to operate specialised eqpt. from the stern. A common hull could perhaps be designed for both types.The same hull could be sued for AGI vessels too.

The Kamortas seem to have space amidships for installing Klub/Uran class SSMs,but their primary role being ASW,they should have an additional better longer ranged ASW weapon system like ASW Medvedka,etc.,or even the ASW Klub variant which can be fired either from TTs or from silos/launchers. Barak-1 + the usual 30mm gatlings can be fitted on either side of the hangar as in the larger FFG/DDG arrangements. For a longer ranged ASW weapon though,the vessel must have sonars capable of detecting and targeting subs out to at least 50KM.



There is no need for small multipurpose corvettes in Indian Navy. It will be excessively armed for regular patrol and under armed for wartime combat. What India needs is capable ships that can either operate on its own or operate to protect CBGs. It needs to have very lethal long range SAM ( > 100kms) and needs to upgrade its RBU-6000 to have range greater than 10kms.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Mar 2015 09:29

There is no ranting,reminding,as there are some who would like to sweep under the carpet the duplicity of the US with regard to India's security. This was in response to another who brought up the subject. matter closed.

The OPV is another platform with possibilities,however,the problem is given our huge coastline,islands,EEZ,etc,we need more platforms.The larger a vessel the greater the cost. Secondly with greater miniturisation and automation,smaller vessels carry as much firepower as larger frigate sized vessels,why internationally,corvettes are the vessels of choice.Remember that our Petyas were around 1250t only,and they were ASW light frigates. In prosecuting subs,an element of speed is needed,why CODAG/GT may be the best propulsion system.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 27 Mar 2015 22:41

Philip wrote:....In prosecuting subs,an element of speed is needed,why CODAG/GT may be the best propulsion system.


That sounds about right, but then why are Kamortas diesel powered? A design choice or constraint?

Another thumb rule, is that the ASW corvette should be relatively inexpensive to lessen the submarine's interest in pursuing and targeting her. But Kamortas are relatively expensive.

Nevertheless, I am convinced that the Kamorta design should be the basis of a light missile vessel to replace the Khukri and Kora classes. There are two variants:

#1 Replace RBU launcher with Brahmos. Grapun Bal above the bridge.
#2 Install inclined Harpoon or Uran launchers amidships.

In both we may choose to delete or retain rest of the ASW sensors & weapons. PDMS is a must.

Russian Project 20382 also suits us fine, but the days of large foreign orders are gone. Plus either of the P28 variants will be a good match in capabilities.

Image

How do we replace the Veer and Abhay class of ships? A new design?

member_23370
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 27 Mar 2015 23:42

Can't the catamaran hull of the new survey ships (INS Makkar)~ 500 tonnes be used for the veer/abhay replacement if required. Also there is already a junta class ASW corvette ~ 640 tonnes in the work. But haven't heard about it in a while.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 28 Mar 2015 17:56

Bheesh,the junta class ASW corvette's hull could be used for a new missile corvette design,carrying around 8 BMos. Remember that the Nanuchkas' were around 700t,Tarantulas much less.
The P-28 hull has excellent scope for further improvement,but apparently costs a lot and is much larger 2,750t+,as large as a Leander class FF. I wonder what the OPVs cost,they too have much potential apart from being launchers for Danush.

Latest IT has an excellent article by Sandeep U on Mr.M's IOR gambit and our future N-sub plans.V.exciting.larger SSBNs and more news about the planned 6 SSNs,which will be "pocket" SSGNs in truth. Larger SSBNs will have at least 12 silos for our ICBMs(?) and the next batch of ATVs may carry more silos too.The second lease of an Akula also seems to be in the pipeline. Money for the N-subs doesn't seem to be a problem according to the article. Great news if so. A map showing our potential IOR assets is also included,with airstrips and docking facilities also being built in the islands being leased/accessed by us.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Mar 2015 18:53

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 727175.cms
Indigenously built dredger ready to be inducted in Indian Navy

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nits » 29 Mar 2015 14:24

Dornier crash: ‘It was pitch dark, no other boat around… and we heard a faint cry – Bhaiya, bhaiya’

At around 10.30 pm last Tuesday, the six-member crew on board Niharika, a fishing boat anchored near Karnataka’s Bhatkal coast, were washing their plates after a meal of brown rice and fried mackerel when they heard a faint cry. “It was pitch dark, not too windy, and there was no other boat around. We thought the sound was unusual,” Vishnu, brother of captain Mahadev Sukku Harikanth, told The Sunday Express. At first, they ignored it. But then, Premanand, the 21-year-old cook, said he could hear someone calling out “bhaiya, bhaiya”. “We realised it was someone crying for help,” said Mahadev, a veteran fisherman with over 15 years of experience out on the Arabian Sea.

And so began the incredible story of the rescue that saved the life of Lt Commander Nikhil Joshi, pilot of the Indian Navy’s Dornier aircraft that crashed earlier that night, killing the two others on board. As soon as it sank in that someone out there needed help, Mahadev said he rushed to the “Master’s room” (captain’s room) on the bridge of the boat and switched on all the eight “focus lights”, turning them to the sea. The crew, meanwhile, got down on a concrete slab on the left of the boat. Soon, they heard that faint cry again — “bhaiya, bhaiya” — and then, the sound of water splashing. Mahadev turned the lights towards the direction of the sound. And there, finally, they saw a “human figure”, about 500m away. “I didn’t even wait to pull up the anchor fully, and sped towards that spot. We saw that it was a man, and that he was in uniform. The crew threw a “ring buoy” out. We then advised him to move towards the left of the boat. We passed a rope for him to hold but he was weak and just wrapped it around his waist. We pulled him up,” Mahadev said.

It took four of them to get the man on the boat. “We placed him on the floor of the boat. He was shivering but he thanked us. For the next 15 minutes, he was quiet and remained wrapped in a blanket that we gave him,” Mahadev said. Then, the officer gave the crew a mobile number to call for help. “But the boat was 25 nautical miles away from land and the mobile network was not connecting,” said Vishnu, Mahadev’s brother. “So we sped towards Karwar to get help as soon as possible. Somewhere along the way, we got mobile connectivity and called the number. Those who answered asked for our coordinates and directed us to stay on course for Karwar.

We later realised they were senior Naval officers. In the next 20 minutes, we received more than 30 calls from Naval officials in Pune, Maharashtra, Goa and Karnataka, all asking about the condition of the officer.” Other members of the crew said they gave the officer hot water and lime juice. “When we asked him if he would like some tea, he said he wouldn’t mind a little,” one of them said.
Mahadev picks up the story now. “Around 10 nautical miles from Karwar, we received a call on my mobile and were told to stop the boat. A Naval ship signalled to us and we responded. Soon, a small boat approached us and two Navy men came on board and began providing first aid to the man we had saved. Then, they took him along with them,” he said.

According to him, the crew also passed on a small hand-written note listing the coordinates of the rescue site. “We were not told by anyone about the plane crash. We came to know of it from the news later. We are only happy that we did our part to serve the country,” Mahadev said. “This will remain in the minds of the crew for the rest of their lives. We saved the life of a soldier and that makes us proud. I wish we could have also found those two others,” he added.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Hitesh » 29 Mar 2015 20:12

I hope the Navy will recognize those fishermen for doing their duty and rescuing a naval officer. The GoI and MoD should sit up and recognize that and reward them. We need to encourage more of these things. I am not saying more accidents but more incidents of patriotic Indians helping out India's soldiers, airmen, and sailors in their time of need.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 30 Mar 2015 03:48

Hitesh wrote:I hope the Navy will recognize those fishermen for doing their duty and rescuing a naval officer. The GoI and MoD should sit up and recognize that and reward them. We need to encourage more of these things. I am not saying more accidents but more incidents of patriotic Indians helping out India's soldiers, airmen, and sailors in their time of need.


That will be done routinely. may also be financially compensated for loss of catch.

In the days to come, many fishermen will "snag" their nets on some part of the wreckage or the other. many will be genuine cases but there will also be many claims by enterprising folks who would surreptitiously like to renew their old nets by making fake damaged net claims.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 30 Mar 2015 11:45

Budget cut hits secret nuclear submarine base on east coast

Project Varsha, India's secret nuclear submarine base on the east coast, has received less than 15 per cent of its approved budget in the current fiscal, adversely affecting its development.

Being constructed at Rambilli, near Vishakhapatnam, the base received a meagre Rs 26 crore in 2014-15 as against the budgetary allocation of Rs 197 crore, sources told Deccan Herald.

The government took away almost Rs 13,000 crore from the Defence Ministry's budge in the current fiscal. This closely-guarded naval facility is one of the projects that faced the consequences.


The slashing of the budget, however, has made Navy officials apprehensive about timely completion of the strategic project.

Though the base's construction began in 2009, the first major cash flow took place in 2011, when the Navy received almost Rs 160 crore, out of which Rs 58 crore was meant for civil construction and the rest for the communication system of the base.
Since then, Project Varsha was getting a steady supply of funds—it had received Rs 547 crore in 2013-14—before it was struck by cash shortage.


INS Varsha would be accompanied by a weapon storage facility called “missile technical positions” (MTP).

It was also impacted by the budget cut, but to a lesser extent as the budgetary estimate of Rs 237 crore was reduced by Rs 100 crore.

Jaitley has now promised Rs 137 crore for the MTP, which reduces the operational turnaround time in wartime situations.


India has readied a brand new very-low-frequency transmitting station on the Tamil Nadu coast, and installed an ultra-high-frequency transponder on its military satellite GSAT-7 for talking to submarines underwater.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 30 Mar 2015 15:31

Good Details on IN Submarine Program

The Indian Ocean riposte


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