Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Mar 2015 16:01

2016 or 2017

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 17 Mar 2015 07:16

Pratyush wrote:Gents, any clue as to when the first Scorpene will hit the water?

The first Scorpene is already under testing.
http://defencenews.in/defence-news-inte ... JIs60ei1A=
It gets inducted in September next year.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/f ... 107126.ece

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Mar 2015 08:52

This is primarily because the first four of the boats would be without the crucial air independent propulsion (AIP), thus qualifying them as regular “diesel-electric” — a system which has been discontinued by most international navies.

Really? Why does even gold have to be washed in poop before it is presented for consumption?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2015 09:04

of the current AIP techs the only one that sounds promising (well atleast it has not failed yet!) is the Li-Ion tech that Soryu2 class will have.

MESMA and the swedish stirling engine are not great and japan has discarded the stirling thing in Soryu1 as not useful for the follow on class. I am kind of glad we didnt waste our time on mesma for the scorpenes.

the U212/U214 subs looks very tfta specced on paper and in photos but have a troubled history of design problems and no real open src info on how their siemens fuel cells perform.

russians have nothing on this that is field proven.

for the scorpenes I am not sure it is even worth it
- if they hit something in TSP and want to escape, IAF/IN will be able to ensure TSPN LRMP a/c do not have a easy time hunting them
- TSP has no ASW task forces to hunt from the surface because said task forces can be tracked and attacked by IN/IAF
- scorpenes with or without AIP are not going into the south china sea. lack of onboard supplies and sustained submerged speed rules it out.

for their specific role of securing our local region, even without AIP they should work fine.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Mar 2015 09:57

What exactly is a non-nukular weapon sub going to do, hiding in the sea for weeks altogether? They make it sound like thesea is teeming with bakistani sub hunters.

And who precisely has given up on diesels? Germany? Russia? Taiwan?

It is this subtle attempt at ==. We have to report something good. Now where is the turd to wrap it in?

A submarine, even the foxtrots, are quite deadly in the seas around india if they strapped on a sonar beacon on them at stayed 5 feet under only. The reality is dwindling numbers.

I dont see why you can NEVER have ANY good news. Just once, leave out how how an unnamed source has said that sensor xyz doesnt perform. Or qwert is obsolete. Or asdf is late. Or bakistanis have it better.

You need a decent force (read 50). This will help the numbers get to 20.

If you want to report shortcomings, by all means do so. But find yourself a marine literate idiot to complain. Not somebody who writes "plain diesel electric".

A 3 sub a year churn (1 nuke, 2 conventional) is the sustainable route. With arihants, scorpenes, p75is, there is hope. But will the powers that be let it happen?

edit -- LRMP from bakistan? Thays a joke. Three P3s and the atlantiques. Sitting in a place that will be in the sea before any subs need to venture that way. What are they going to send-- the mirages, F16s or JF17s on kamikazi missions? They cant even outfly the taliban.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Mar 2015 10:56

Indian pilots learning to fly MiG-29K/KUB fighters off Vikramaditya ( pg 26 )

http://en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to32.pdf

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Mar 2015 11:45

Just a noob question maybe but why can't india have nuclear cruise missiles on all its subs ..would be a great deterrent

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 17 Mar 2015 11:49

Nirbhay is meant for that while Brahmos mini can act as anti ship missile.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Mar 2015 17:20

The USN is pressing for extra Tomahawaks on its Virginia class subs. Why the IN needs large SSGNs with a heavy weaponload of missiles/torpedoes.

ThyssenKrupp ready to transfer knowhow to India for submarines
— Dr Gurnad Sodhi, MD ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems India talks to Girja Shankar Kaura

The ‘Project 75’ for the construction of six submarines for the Indian Navy has been in the pipeline for long time now. Dr Gurnad Sodhi, Managing Director, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) India, which is one of the companies in fray for the order, talks about what the company has to offer to India.
Q. What has prompted TKMS to participate in one of the lndia’s largest Defence tender for the construction of six submarines under Project 75 India (P-75 (I) for the Indian Navy?
A. The Ministry of Defence is expected to issue the P-75 (I) RFP for which we are planning to offer the Type 214 submarine, which combines best-in-class underwater endurance and diving depth. Besides its highly regarded anti-surface and anti-submarine operations, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, the HDW Class 214's proven fuel cell-based Air Independent Propulsion system is the best available in the market and offers exceptional operational advantages to the Indian Navy.
Since the Indian Navy has been our customer for over 30 years, we have established a strong working relationship with them and are in a position to fully satisfy their requirements.
Q. Has TKMS short-listed any Indian shipyard for collaboration or alliance?
A. A high-level committee has been formed by the MoD and is currently evaluating the Indian shipyards. It is expected that this Committee will submit its report shortly.
TKMS respects the decision by the MoD in short-listing the most capable shipyard(s) without any bias. Thereafter, we will commence our negotiations with the shortlisted shipyard(s).
Q. Will TKMS adhere to India’s new policy of ‘Make in India’?
A. We are committed to the ‘Make and Made in India’ policy. This would encompass inter alia robust Transfer of Technology (ToT), training, meeting the offset obligations etc. TKMS is willing to bring its expertise in cutting-edge areas to India and co-develop solutions with local partners to meet the country's needs. Besides the most capable submarine, best value for money and a strong industrial partnership, TKMS is offering extensive ToT to India.
Q. Could TKMS throw some light on the present status of its four submarines which were commissioned in the late eighties and early nineties?
A. TKMS has been a trusted partner of the Indian Navy for over 25 years. The Indian Navy has operated successfully the HDW Type 209 since their induction in 1986. The very fact that INS Shalki and Shankul were made in India by an Indian Shipyard under a technology-transfer agreement is proof that TKMS has been supporting India’s indigenous defence industry for over a quarter of a century. We can proudly claim that all our four submarines are performing well without any inherent problems.
Q. Are there any plans to upgrade the existing HDW/Shishumar class submarines with the Indian Navy?
A. Yes, we are currently exploring opportunities to upgrade the Shishumar class Type 209 submarines with the Indian Navy, for lifetime extensions. TKMS has successfully demonstrated in several countries, how substantial ToT can be implemented in the upgrade of the HDW Type 209s.
Q. Is the Indian Navy also contemplating upgrading the weapon suite on the existing German submarines?
A. Yes, TKMS is in discussions with the Indian Navy about this. We have the capacity to integrate any weapon system that is selected by the Indian Navy into the existing Shishumar class submarines. In fact, such customised integrations have been successfully carried out by TKMS in similar type of submarines for many other Navies of the world.
Q. What other strategic benefits does TKMS offer to India?
A. We can offer to the Indian Navy the world’s best, cutting-edge technologies in the form of modular construction, stealth technologies and integration of diverse weapon systems, including Brahmos missiles, besides providing high-quality training to both shipbuilders and crew in all disciplines.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Mar 2015 17:45

Bad news for the IN if this happens.

For a long time one has been advocating the building of at least 3 cruiser sized surface combatants,one each for our proposed 3 carrier task forces. The new Russian "Leader" design,which may be N-powered, is an interesting concept to look at.Russia built 4 new Sovremenny class DDGs a decade+ ago and as the report says,might once again build/collaborate on the new design with China.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 0319000149

Russia, China may coordinate on nuclear-powered destroyer

Staff Reporter 2015-03-19 15:42 (GMT+8)
Concept art for Russia's Leader-class destroyer. (Internet photo)

Russia is very likely to start construction on the world's third nuclear-powered destroyer with the assistance of China, according to the Sputnik News based in Moscow.

Admiral Igor Kasatonov, retired deputy commander of the Russian Navy, said the construction of the 10,000-ton Leader-class guided-missile destroyer would begin in 2017. Vasily Kashin, a military expert from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies based in Moscow, said the project provides a new opportunity for China and Russia to deepen defense cooperation.

The Leader-class destroyer would be the world's third nuclear-powered destroyer after the USS Truxtun (DLGN-35) and USS Bainbridge (DLGN-25) of the United States. Since both American vessels were later redesignated cruisers, the Leader-class would in fact be the only nuclear-powered destroyer in the world. Kashin said that the Leader-class is larger than the two American ships.

Unlike the US Navy, Russia does not have overseas naval bases around the world, the piece said, and it makes sense for Russia and China to build nuclear-powered destroyers or cruisers that can remain at sea for longer. Kashin also said China is working hard on the design of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. The participation of China in the construction of the Leader-class destroyer may give China the experience it needs, he said.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 19 Mar 2015 19:25

And we want to jump straight to a n-powered aircraft carrier when we haven't got a single n-powered surface ship. Along with EMALS, we clearly do not have any notion of risk mitigation.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 19 Mar 2015 20:06

Shreeman wrote:
This is primarily because the first four of the boats would be without the crucial air independent propulsion (AIP), thus qualifying them as regular “diesel-electric” — a system which has been discontinued by most international navies.
Really? Why does even gold have to be washed in poop before it is presented for consumption?

What is being 'presented for consumption'?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 19 Mar 2015 20:19

JTull wrote:And we want to jump straight to a n-powered aircraft carrier when we haven't got a single n-powered surface ship. Along with EMALS, we clearly do not have any notion of risk mitigation.

The impossible just takes a little longer..

. Wonder though how much of it is driven by this logic:

1. To have CATOBAR a/c which can carry sizable payloads/range, you need catapults.
2. Steam catapults are physically complex require a lot of space and you need to store a lot of fuel
3. EMALs are more compact, allow you to dial-in just the right amount of power whereas SC have a one size fits all power rating.
4.EMALs require a lot electric power generation and you need nuclear power for that.
5. Variable power ratings are important of your a/c range from E2Ds, MiG29s, LCAs and UCAVS or UAVs.
6. CVNs save on fuel space/weight but of course, all that lead shielding nets it out weight but saves on space.

By the time, we get INS Vishal, EMALs will be a mature tech. CVN 78 is expected to be commissioned in 2016 with deployment in 2019. For us will be another six years after that for INSV to be commissioned.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Mar 2015 21:13

And we want to jump straight to a n-powered aircraft carrier when we haven't got a single n-powered surface ship. Along with EMALS, we clearly do not have any notion of risk mitigation

Politics, a-seat-at-the-high-table, where does India foresee herself to be, etc, will dictate the use of nuclear propulsion.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 20 Mar 2015 03:44

MoD admits to Chinese threat in Indian Ocean

China continues to extend its footprint in India's immediate neighbourhood using diplomatic and military routes much to the discomfort of New Delhi that wants to hold supremacy in the Indian Ocean region, the Defence Ministry has warned.

“China is extending its lines of access towards the Indian Ocean through Myanmar and Pakistan. Its footprint in India's immediate neighbourhood has been increasing as a result of its proactive diplomacy,” says the Defence Ministry's annual security analysis released on Thursday.

The report comes out two weeks before Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar's visit to Japan, which, too, is overhauling security structure in the backdrop of increasing military activities in the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean region.

Parrikar will be in Tokyo on March 30-31 to take forward the bilateral relations.
The minister's visit comes at a time when Japan is set to introduce a new legislation in Diet for modifying its constitution from national security and military perspective.

While unresolved boundary dispute between India and China remains a key factor in the security calculus, the report red-flags the maritime front where Beijing uses political, military and economic engagement for increasing its footprint in the Indian Ocean region.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi last week toured three Indian Ocean nations – Mauritius, Seychelles and Sri Lanka – and initiated several developmental projects with India's support with the underlying purpose of countering Chinese influence in these islands.

The security analysis did not directly refer to the Islamic State but has ample references to “malevolent non-state actors” in West Asia, disturbing the stability of the region.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Mar 2015 07:34

Philip saar, wantchinatimes is garbage, not to be trusted.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Mar 2015 14:03

Tx.Bu tone never knows with the US pushing Russia and China closer together.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 20 Mar 2015 15:04

Cosmo, NRao, idealism does not prepare a country's defences. I know people who were working on the n-sub in 1970's. We're only now getting close to operationalising one. How many did China have then and how many now?

Same goes for our attempts at a fighter with all bells and whistles.

By the time IN gets a n-powered carrier with EMALS, China will likely have 3 oprational carriers. By adding US to critical path for a cutting edge tech, we're dooming the project before it starts.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Mar 2015 16:22

An old Vayu article by retd Admiral Arun Prakash on the N-LCA..and it only reinforces the faith that LCA supporters have in the Navy and its backing of the program. The difference in the attitude and approach of the Navy vs the IAF is glaringly obvious when one reads this article.

The LCA Navy- Admiral Arun Prakash

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Mar 2015 17:34

idealism does not prepare a country's defences

My comments are never about "idealism", they are always about "data points".

One very recent "data point": the decision of the UK and a few other EUiets to join China in some bank that will compete with the IMF/WB. This event will impact the transfer of naval techs to India from the US. Simple as that. (Conversely, if such events were to subside, then the chances of IN getting such techs becomes more remote.)

I have said this before and will restate it: from a "global" view, IN will spearhead Indian defense efforts and as a result IN will get some of the latest and greatest.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 20 Mar 2015 19:50

JTull wrote:And we want to jump straight to a n-powered aircraft carrier when we haven't got a single n-powered surface ship. Along with EMALS, we clearly do not have any notion of risk mitigation.

Why is building a nuclear powered cruiser a prerequisite for building a nuclear powered carrier? The French managed without following that path. Even if that wasn't the case, a nuclear cruiser would still be a dead-end project with only one ship of the type operational in the world (Kirov) which will eventually be retired without replacement.

With regard to the EMALS, the political aspects apart, its a far more efficient and reliable alternative to steam catapults. As things stand, the US is the only country which builds catapult launch systems (the Brits stopped in 70s IIRC). We could start a clean-sheet project but that is the course of action more likely to result in a long drawn out development process followed by technical issues post-induction.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Mar 2015 22:30

The combat potential of the Indian submarine "Varshavyanka" will grow by empowering complex Club-S
03/20/2015 15:02:37

Langkawi (Malaysia). March 20. Interfax-AVN. Carried out with the participation of Russian experts modernization of Indian submarines of Project 877 EKM (code "Varshavyanka") provides empowerment strike missile complex Club-S, told reporters on Friday at an exhibition LIMA-2015 CEO of CDB ME "Rubin" Igor Villeneuve.

"Mounted on these boats impact missile complex Club-S, previously only provides surface ships firing cruise missiles 3M-54E will now be able to hit ground targets with cruise missiles 3M-14E," - said I.Vilnit.

According to him, after modernization project 877EKM boats can use two types of missiles - 3M-54E against naval targets and 3M-14E against ground targets.

I.Vilnit reported that in the course of modernization and replacement to carry out certain avionics boat.
"In some cases, the Indian side is introducing its equipment. The architecture allows the boat to do it, since it incorporates a substantial modernization potential," - said the head of "Ruby.

He noted that the principle of open architecture enables the integration on board the boat accessories new generation, as well as the development of Indian professionals.

Indian Navy purchased from Russia 10 submarines Project 877 EKM. After the loss of the boat "Sindurakshak" sunken in the port of Mumbai on the night of August 14, 2013, as part of the Indian Navy, left 9 boats of this project. The main armament of the project is a unified ship missile complex Club-S, which includes both anti-ship cruise missiles (3M-54E) and long-range cruise missiles (3M-14E) to defeat the enemy ground targets.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 22 Mar 2015 11:34

Gentlemen, proud to be posting this news today:
India's first Scorpene submarine is now in water

This is the first good news for India's fast depleting submarine fleet in a long time. The first of the six Scorpene attack submarines being built at Mumbai's Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL), under transfer of technology from France's DCNS, is now floating in the water.

This is an indication that the delivery of the submarines, delayed by over four years, is finally on track. The revised deadline for the delivery of the first Scorpene to the Indian Navy is September 2016. Thereafter, the delivery of the subsequent five has been promised at the rate of one every nine months.

A submarine is assembled in dry dock. Floating it in water is an indication that it's in an advanced stage of completion. In technical terminology, this marks the "launch" of the submarine.

"Both the pressure and the outer hull of the first Scorpene are in place. Much of the internal fit is also progressing well. The submarine will now be placed on a pontoon, and tugged out of MDL docks to the nearby Indian Navy Dock. This will free one precious submarine-building dock at MDL, and thus help in meeting deadlines for subsequent Scorpenes. The remaining work on the first submarine, in particular the fitment of batteries, will be done in the Naval Dock," a highly-placed source in the Indian Navy disclosed to The Sunday Guardian.

After the fitment is complete in the Naval Dock, the first Scorpene will be put through harbour trials. Once it clears the harbour trials, the boat will head for sea trials, during which its weapons firing capability will also be validated, before finally being inducted as a warship.

The Scorpene is one of the world's most advanced and stealthy diesel-electrical submarines. It will be armed with Exocet missiles and Black Shark torpedoes.

This marks a desperately-needed relief for the Indian Navy, which has lost five submarines in the last 15 years due to decommissioning or phase-out and accident, but not added a single new conventional submarine.

The Sunday Guardian had reported last week the retirement of INS Sindhurakshak, a Kilo class submarine, which suffered a catastrophic on-board explosion, rendering another blow to India's underwater strength. The number of conventional submarines is down to 13, of which three are in life extension refit. Another six are due for similar life extensions. Due to the critically-low force levels, these will be spared only after the Scorpenes start coming in.

A recent CAG performance audit has brought out the desperation. It disclosed that the operational availability of submarines is as low as 50% of those not in elaborate repair or refit.

The only addition to India's underwater fleet in nearly 15 years was a nuclear-powered Akula class attack submarine, codenamed INS Chakra, in 2012. This has been taken on a 10-year lease from Russia.

To maintain minimum numbers of conventional submarines, India embarked on a 30-year programme in 1999 to build 24 submarines. The programme is alarmingly behind schedule. The contract for the Scorpenes, which were to be the first element, was signed in 2005. The first submarine was scheduled to be delivered in 2012, but is now over four years behind schedule. Timeline slippages also led to heavy cost escalation from the initially contracted Rs 18,798 crore to Rs 23,562 crore.

Because of the huge delay in the Scorpenes and then in deciding on a second line of submarines, the Indian Navy has already obtained government approval for converting the requirement for six of the 24 conventional submarines into nuclear-powered ones (SSNs) akin to the leased INS Chakra. This is also significant from the point of view of increasing forays by Chinese nuclear submarines in waters close to India.

These six nuclear submarines will be built indigenously at the strategic Ship Building Complex in Vizag. Unlike a conventional diesel-electric submarine, which needs to resurface after every few days to recharge its batteries, a nuclear submarine can stay submerged for months, giving added stealth, lethality and sea denial capability. Only five other countries besides India have the capability to operate nuclear submarines.

In addition to these attack submarines, both conventional and nuclear, India has laboured for long to indigenously produce a fleet of nuclear-powered, nuclear-missile firing submarines to provide the missing third leg of the triad of nuclear weapons, which can be fired from land, air and under the sea. The first of these, the Arihant, is now undergoing sea trials.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 22 Mar 2015 11:59

Nikhil T wrote:Gentlemen, proud to be posting this news today:
India's first Scorpene submarine is now in water

December 2014 called, they want their news back

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Mar 2015 18:56

http://www.marinetechnologynews.com/new ... eup-511120

India's Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL) has decided to tie up with the foreign yards for the technology transfer required to create these high-tech ships, after bagging the deal to build Mines Counter-Measures Vessels (MCMVs) for the Indian Navy.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 22 Mar 2015 20:03

Any further news on INS sindhukriti's re-induction?

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 23 Mar 2015 09:02

From Twitter

@CestMoiz
Those who think India needs merely to be a predominantly continental power & not a maritime one, think again!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Mar 2015 10:15

What have we been saying for aeons? That the US will never divorce itself from rent-boy Pak!

US cannot succeed in region without Pak Navy’s support: US Naval Commander
MANAMA: The Commander of US Naval Forces Central Command has acknowledged the contribution of Pakistan Navy for ensuring maritime peace in the region and said United States cannot succeed without support of Pakistan Navy.

“We cannot be successful in this region, without the contribution of the Pakistan Navy,” Vice Admiral John W. Miller, Commander, US Naval Forces Central Command, US 5th Fleet and Combined Maritime Forces (CMF) told a group of Pakistani media during a visit to his Headquarters here in the Bahrain’s capital.

Vice Admiral Miller, who has spent a majority of his operational career in the US Central Command area of responsibility, said the ties between the naval forces of Pakistan and the United States were better than ever before.

“We are quite fortunate to have Pakistan as part of our team, and they are not only just great team-mates, but they are also good friends,” he said.

The headquarters of the US Naval Central Command and US Navy Fifth Fleet are co-located at the Naval Support Activity (NSA) Bahrain and ensure maritime security in an area spread over 2.5 million square miles of ocean.

The headquarters also coordinates and conducts combat operations against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).

Admiral Miller congratulated Pakistan for assuming the command of Combined Maritime Task Force 151 for the sixth time from Thailand.

Commodore Asif Hameed Siddiqui SI(M) from the Pakistan Navy is now commanding the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF) on counter-piracy operations.

Miller said he has been at the US Navy’s Central Command Headquarters for three years and most of the time, one of the two task forces has been under the command of a Pakistani Naval Officer.

He said it was a significant achievement and something for Pakistan to be proud of.

“No nation has contributed more to command our task forces than Pakistan … so we are really proud of the relationship that we have with the Pakistani Navy,” he said.

Recalling his visit to Pakistan Navy’s War College in Lahore recently, Miller said he was impressed by the quality of officers, who were well educated and trained.

“They are a delight to work with, quite professional and their ships are very well maintained.”

When sought for comments on the Operation Zarb e Azb, Vice Admiral Millar said counter-terrorism operations being carried out anywhere in the world were very important to stop terrorists activities.

“It is equally important to go after the ideology to curb terrorism as it does not matter what they call themselves – whether ISIS, Daesh, ISIL or Al Qaeda,” he said.

Vice Admiral Miller, who also looks after combat operations in Iraq and Syria said so far over 2800 air strikes had been conducted from the two aircraft carriers.

Currently two Aircraft Carriers – USS Carl Vinson and French Charles de Gaulle are positioned in the area to launch combat aircraft against targets of ISIL.

President Obama described ISIS as ISIL which refers to the undefined region around Syria, historically referred to as the Levant and roughly includes modern-day Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine and Jordan.

Vice Admiral said a lot of strikes, particularly in Syria were designed to destroy the oil infrastructure, currently being used by the ISIL fighters.

“It not only destroys one of their funding sources, but also their mobility.”

Without giving any time-line for routing out ISIL, he said last June its fighters seemed to be operating like a regular army -were mobile and able to capture large tracts of land quickly.

But today it was like a terrorist organization, where it was very hard for them to move about, with less access to funding and ability to conduct new operations. He said Iraqis were fighting back and had taken back their lands.

Vice Admiral Miller, also the Commander of the Combined Maritime Force (CMF) said it was “a very unique organization” comprising 30 countries working together voluntarily.

He said on any given day, there were around 40 to 45 US ships in the region, and combined with the CMF members and others the total rises to around 70 ships, working in coordination to ensure maritime security in the region.

He said the region was witnessing unstable time, however on the contrary, the maritime environment was calm; oil was flowing out, while goods and services were entering the region, without any incident, as many countries in the Gulf get 80 per cent of food and other goods through the sea.

Vice Admiral Miller recalled the beautiful Margalla hills flanking the capital Islamabad and said he wished he had more time from his official engagements, so he could just walk around.

When asked about his favourite Pakistani dish, he mentioned Lamb Biryani as very tasty despite the fact that it was very spicy for the American taste buds.

Commodore Asif Hameed Siddiqui SI(M) of Pakistan Navy who is now commanding the 30-nation Combined Task Force (CTF) 151 said Pakistan was playing an active role in keeping international merchant shipping lanes safe from attacks by pirates and terrorist activities, through constant vigilance.

“Pakistan’s continuous presence in the area has made our region safe,” he told the visiting Pakistan media team.

It is for the sixth time that Pakistan has assumed the command of Combined Task Force 151, while it has commanded the Combined Maritime Task Force 150 for seven times. Commodore Siddiqui becomes one of the 13 Pakistan Navy officers who commanded one of the two naval task forces – CTF 150 or the CTF 151.

Commodore Siddiqui said Pakistan has put in phenomenal resources in the task forces under the CMF and was one of the first countries to join.

“We know our coast, seas and the region much better and it is in our interest that we patrol our own area,” he said.

He said the task-oriented mandate allows sharing of experiences, capacity building, improved training, besides providing a good learning experience.

He said the force was also playing a key role in checking flow of illegal immigrants and helps check the money trail that can go to fund terrorist activities.

He said if any vessel carrying illegal immigrants is spotted, the Maritime Security Agency of Pakistan or in other cases the authorities of coastal states are informed.

Combined Task Force 150 (CTF-150) was one of three task forces operated by Combined Maritime Forces (CMF) with a mission to promote maritime security, counter terrorist acts and related illegal activities, which terrorists use to fund or conceal their movements.

CTF-150′s area of operation includes some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes, spanning over two million square miles, covering the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden, Indian Ocean and Gulf of Oman excluding the Arabian Gulf.

Over 23,000 shipping movements per year are recorded and includes main shipping routes from the Far East to Europe and the US with over one third of the world’s oil passing through the Area of Operation (AOR) each year.

The area also contains three narrow waterways, know as `choke points’, where vessels are required to pass closely between two shorelines, with limited maneuverability and are more vulnerable.

So what has all the bonhomie with the USN been for? We are being royally duped by the US,duplcitous as usual,"white man speaks with forked tongue"

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 23 Mar 2015 12:19

Philip wrote:So what has all the bonhomie with the USN been for? We are being royally duped by the US,duplcitous as usual,"white man speaks with forked tongue"

So we don't want to be a munna, but we also don't want Pakistan to be a munna? Strange logic.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Mar 2015 12:33

So the other side of the coin would be that in order to stop the TSP from being the munna. India must become the munna. Is this correct logic?

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Mar 2015 15:16

The US just wants India to check mate china in the Indian ocean (only) but nothing more please ! .. Pakistan is like the mahouts goad to be used on the elephant just in case it uses its own mind to do things !

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Mar 2015 17:35

Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence partners with Sweden’s SAAB for naval UAVs

Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence and Aerospace has tied up with SAAB of Sweden to bid for the ship-borne unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) programme of the Indian Navy, valued at ₹1,000 crore.

Sources in the know said the tie-up will probably mark the entry of European UAVs into the Indian market, which has hitherto been dominated by the Israelis.

50 UAV order

Seeking to enhance its surveillance capabilities, the Indian Navy had in January announced a global competition for the procurement of 50 ‘ship-borne unmanned aerial vehicles’.

The last date of submission was March 19, after an extension of two weeks. The Group’s decision to partner with SAAB was governed by the requirements outlined by the Indian Navy, another official said.

The company declined to comment on the nuances of the tie-up, such as whether a royalty payout would have to be made to the Swedish firm.

With the opening of the defence sector, foreign arms makers have been courting Indian firms.

To take advantage of the situation, the Anil Ambani Group has been participating in opportunities available in the sector.

Sources said the Group has also received partnership offers from leading global manufacturers, including Israeli firms, for the other UAV programmes.

Growing market

The Indian UAV market is expected to grow to ₹30,000 crore in the next 10 years.

According to the request for information issued by the Navy for this programme, the UAVs should be capable of day and night operations from naval vessels 50 metres or longer, both with and without helicopter decks.

It also asks for specifications relating to range, endurance, payload, launch and recovery systems.

The Anil Ambani Group recently showed keen interest in the Naval Utility Helicopters Programme of the Defence Ministry.

The Group has also announced the acquisition of Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering Company Ltd to strengthen its footprint in the Defence sector.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 23 Mar 2015 17:59

But they do not have any experience on any of these things and entering into each and everything in defence sector at one go. IN will be wise to think twice before awarding any contract to them.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 23 Mar 2015 20:13

I particularly don't like this oil refinery companies entering defense market. Yes industry needs investment but in India every one sundry wanting the pie, is nauseating.They just can remain pure investors . How much reliance have actually invested in R&D in shale gas technology or oil exploration.

If you look at US , all the giants like LM , Boeing etc are true blue chip companies which have core expertise in the business they are doing. Reliance and their likes seems fluke to me , just here to make quick money. L&T , TATA are better suited for our defense industries and they have painstakingly being with defense industry right from its infancy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Mar 2015 20:34

True. Reliance has not invested much in oil r&d unlike shell and such. Its these biggies who provide
The technical inputs in gulf also to drilling and refining ops.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 23 Mar 2015 20:46

^ While i agree to your pov, but these will provide much needed flip to people in the industry to earn more and in the process make it more attractive to more mango people.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Mar 2015 20:55

Reliance is not in the oil exploration business as much as it is in the oil refining business, among others. They have indeed invested significantly in the latter. Even in the case of cos like Shell, a lot of specialized operations are carried out by subcontractors from Schlumberger, Halliburton and Seadrill to Bechtel. Further, Reliance is a conglomerate. Like any conglomerate, they attempt to get into a range of industries. Hyundai, Samsung, Kawasaki, Hitachi etc are no different - they make everything from consumer goods to warships too.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 23 Mar 2015 21:30

^^^^
Point missing which actually is the main point specially in defense industries is R&D. The SoKo companies depicted above have a robust product line ranging from electronics to ship building, from designing to manufacturing. Reliance and their likes will go the easy way , they will make JV with foreign companies to seal deal in offset clauses . The product assembled ( actually component outsourced from foreign maker ), will have only reliance tag beside the foreign maker but will share the profit coming out of it. What reliance can actually do is they can invest in Indian SMEs or MSEs dealing with defense products , which will help these enterprises to scale up and also do R&D in new products , that will actually help in true expertise and capacity building for India. See the way TATA , L&T , Godrej & Boyace doing business.

Reliance can never become a true conglomerate, in the likes of Samsung or Hyundai etc in its present form and money making mindset.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 23 Mar 2015 21:58

Philip wrote:What have we been saying for aeons? That the US will never divorce itself from rent-boy Pak!

LOL. There's a difference between a national policy forum and a PR event for foreign journalists.

So what has all the bonhomie with the USN been for? We are being royally duped by the US,duplcitous as usual,"white man speaks with forked tongue"

Duped into doing what? We aren't allies, nor are we likely to be. Is the Russian embrace of China (and outreach to Pakistan) also some sort of racial thing?

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 23 Mar 2015 23:10

The CTF-151is a stupid counter piracy force. Yes pakis having been supplying one of their rust buckets for the CTF-151 for a while now. While IN and ICGS ships regularly patrol the gulf of aden for pirates on their own these nations need the USN umbrella to do anything.