Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby manjgu » 05 Nov 2013 21:32

a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby srin » 05 Nov 2013 21:34

There isn't a price-tag that you can put to things that are intangible: inspiring millions of kids to dream, to prove it is possible to aim for the stars.

No amount of Brit aid should make us sacrifice that.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Bade » 05 Nov 2013 21:34

^^^ ISRO is not just about GSLV. :evil:

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby KrishG » 05 Nov 2013 21:35

Lalmohan wrote:i dont think this mission is a show off, i think it will inspire a new generation of technologists


It is a technology demonstration mission that'll inspire a whole generation to come. ISRO was clear in its intention from the start that this was going to be more of a technology demonstration mission rather than a scientific one. Chandrayaan on the other hand was a very good balance between science and showing Indian capability. So this mission is only the start and there'll be many more in the medium term.

That's why MkIII project has to be completed as soon as possible.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Comer » 05 Nov 2013 21:39

manjgu wrote:*snip* its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport *snip*


Why troll dear sir? Why this binary mode of either India either is a dirt poor country or a super power? We exist somewhere in the middle and aspiring to be better. And you have khujli with that?

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby sumishi » 05 Nov 2013 21:45

manjgu wrote:a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!

Guess out of india they give all that Sh!t to You! :P
Well, Happy sucking up to the goras!

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby KJo » 05 Nov 2013 21:48

Some belly aching by gora press.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/04/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Even a former head of ISRO, Dr. G Madhavan Nair, has criticized the project as a waste of resources, saying the proposal was half-baked, too expensive and poorly conceived.


He told CNN's sister network CNN-IBN that while he was in favor of exploring Mars, "my contention is that it has to be done properly with complete set of instruments and with proper orbit." The elliptical orbit, which he said would bring the craft within 360km of Mars at its closest point and 80,000km at its furthest, was "the wrong kind of orbit to enable any clear observation of a planet."

"It is not value for money, that's what I feel," he told CNN-IBN. "With regard to priorities, we know there is severe shortage of communication transponders in the country. We need to prioritize that."



Why do our top officials change color when out of office? I have seen this even in our Armed Forces chiefs.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Mihir » 05 Nov 2013 21:52

For what it's worth, his objections are only technical in nature. Quite unlike the "India needs more toilets and fewer phallic symbols of superpower status" brand of 'criticism' that our brilliant social scientists, human development specialists, and the assorted gang are dishing out.
Last edited by Mihir on 05 Nov 2013 22:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby anupmisra » 05 Nov 2013 21:55

manjgu wrote:@anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!


Well, normally I refrain from getting into a pissing match on a forum. Everybody becomes an keyboard tiger. But Manjgu, "thanks" for making this personal. Let me think about what you have ranted above and I will respond in good faith (but in my time). As for "go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india" comment, you probably speak for your self.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby ramana » 05 Nov 2013 21:55

vina wrote:Brilliant. The skinflint miserly dhoti clad Yindoos seem to have done some remarkable things with the Mars mission. A full mission in only 15 months, weighing just some 1.3tons, and launched by a thin short starving runt of a rocket, while the Americans, Russians and Europeans used some pretty Beefy red meat fed well built rockets .

The timing was probably close to perfect in choosing the lowest energy point in time to try and fly to Mars. The Russian-Chinese mission Fobos-Grunt two years ago tried using brute power and size to fly to Mars. The Russians made a hash of the software (design, testing and validation) and their craft never even left earth.

But, look at the leaps ISRO has made in terms of rocket guidance and control. Injected at pin point accuracy at 270 deg away on the other side of the earth in to space above the Pacific (could sea Baja in the map at the end of the trajectory) after a very loooooong coasting . Sure will set off a lot of dhoti shivering to the folks to taller than mountain folks.



First of all kudos to ISRO for a great job well done.

I have said this earlier that the emphasis should not be on cost but on how the Mars mission is an example of LEAN and AGILE practices which the West is hoping to adopt.

The points that vina (MBA from IVY League, Aero for IIT, so very competent to comment on this subject) highlighted show the AGILE and LEAN concepts put in practice by ISRO in achieving an affordable space mission.

As to why Mars, because it there.

Ajey Lele of IDSA has written a wonderful monograph published by Springer Verlag on this topic.

The highly ellipitic orbit allows ISRO to exploin their known capabilities to achieve the mission. And this orbit is available only ~ 786(?) days later.

Sort of Tripurantaka shot moment by Parameshwara.


And as Vina says taller than mountain fiend wants to cooperate with India!!!! And India should.

If US that arms TSP and sanctions India can be partners in space why not China!!!!

China calls for joint efforts after India's Mars mission

This will shut up the US based commentators why conjure up mythical Asian space race!!!!

BTW the essay by Amithaba Ghosh of NASA MARS Rover mission is in poor taste. Its sour grapes. The fellow couldn't achieve what ISRO acheived using LEAN and AGILE practices and is hining about space program goals for ISRO. Didnt his MArs Rover mission crash an Mars lander mistaking units of force a few years ago?


Looks like there is Baki lurking in the NRI!!

Manjgu, Why rain on the happy day? I suggest you ease up.
BTW Jean Dreze is there to give you company in the misery.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby sumishi » 05 Nov 2013 21:57

Seedhi si baat hai -- First learn to drive, and then only, on subsequent outings, should you enjoy the scene while driving.
Mangalyana is a delightfully audacious attempt to drive. Like Dr Radhakrishnan said, 85% of objective is attaining Mars orbit. The 3-SOI experience will work for all interplanetary explorations in future

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Comer » 05 Nov 2013 22:02

***removed to avoid jinxing. Hindi Chini bhai bhai onlee***
Last edited by Comer on 05 Nov 2013 22:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Supratik » 05 Nov 2013 22:08

manjgu wrote:@venkat_r...what kind of fruits will be harvested? pl enlighten us... i think the mission budget is much higher...with questionable goals...they should be investing more in comm satellites, recon satellites, tech to kill chinese satellites, cyrogenic engines, GSLV ?? totally misplaced prioroities..IMHO


You can do all of these simultaneously as long as it is within budget. From all available information ISRO is doing that. Going to Mars is challenging for ISRO as it is the first interplanetary mission. I disagree with Nair that they should have put more science into it. You put more science once you have mastered such missions.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby SaiK » 05 Nov 2013 22:17

I want mangal orbit to happen, and then ridicule china et al. So, let us keep it a little tucked in! by then, i hope we have better face to show to the world by way of better administrative setup as well. ;)

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Comer » 05 Nov 2013 22:19

^^ Got it. Did some pisko stuff, my fault onlee.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby TSJones » 05 Nov 2013 22:28

manjgu wrote:a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!


To be a little bit impolite the UK effort was not a 100% success. Half of it, a Mars lander, failed. The othe half lives on in Martian orbit. Britain hasn't tried again. Which to me is sad.

I will repeat: Mars is one tough mofo'. Unfortunately, it demands sacrifice before it yields it secrets. So far, NO ONE has not sacrificed a mission(s) to Mars before success. You have to be able to take one in the kisser and then come back and ask for more! And then ask in humble retrospect, what did we do wrong? And then suck it up and do it again. No balls, no blue chips. Let us all pray that this will not be required of India. The god of Mars is a jealous god....

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby disha » 05 Nov 2013 22:31

KJoishy wrote:What are the goals of this mission? Does anyone have any information on this?


ISRO/Frontline had an article on the goals. Here is the "executive" version of the goals (paraphrased):

Primary goals:

1. De-orbiting from Earth's gravity, coasting into deep space towards Mars
2. Navigating to Mars
3. Eventual de-orbiting from Sun's sphere of influence and getting captured into Mars orbit.

In the process,

a. test out all the navigation equations.
b. deep space network
c. Orbital motors (LAM) firing after 300 days of space shutdown
d. Behaviour of electronics and power management.

Secondary goals:

1. Search for Methane in Martian atmosphere
2. Other Mars mapping

Tertiary goals:

1. Identify if the Methane (if found) is due to geological processes or biological processes. That is, is it Geo_methane or Bio_methane?
2. Identify sources of methane (where it comes from and how) (1 & 2 are slightly interconnected but different)

----------------

Let us say India reaches all the goals by next year end (Dec, 2014)., what does it mean?

Millitary:

1. Precise navigation, simulation and execution of navigational algorithms, extremely precise - ruggedized gyros.

Takes the "Arjun Chaap Missile" brand to an altogether new level. As an analogy, if all Indians were at the skill level of Arjun in shooting an arrow - with the above - it will be like finding an Arjun among Arjuns! (SaiK you must be proud of me today ;-) )

2. Deep space has extreme radiation. If your power bus and electronics can withstand that, you know what it means.

Environmentally/Politically:

1. Methane is a greenhouse gas. There are several sources of methane, that is - when cows fart - they emit methane, also when oil drilling happens, lot of methane is let loose.

When and if the green house gas cap and trade treaty comes into effect, this information is going to be extremely useful. That is the drilling activities of US (and other western oil companies) can be offset with agricultural activities of Masai Mara and Indians. Further, cow herding and sheep herding is a socio-cultural activity which cannot be controlled and only can be offseted - say by growing more trees (one cannot stop cow farts!). However oil-drilling is an industrial activity that can be controlled.

So Methane in mars is an ideal standard that can be used as a basis to measure methane due to human activities on earth! With the data from Mars and an equivalent run on Earth's methane sources, a GOI babu will now have more power over his western counterparts in having chai-biscoot-farting competition.

And this is why all and sundry are telling India to stop the Mars exploration and take care of its poor and hungry - and China is ready to cooperate - since they have like 500 million pigs (the four legged kind - not the baki two legged kind) to take care of. Even pigs when they fart, emit methane.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby member_23370 » 05 Nov 2013 22:40

manjgu wrote:a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!


As a matter of fact in ESA UK is an irrelevant entity. Its France and Germany which are the real power. Outside UK brits are considered useless and technologically incompetent buffoons who live by mooching off the US. They are as gujral and putin summarized an irrelevant c grade little island. Deal with it. Wait till the GSLV-III goes online and Uk which has to even beg for nuke propulsion unit and missiles from US can bee seen as the impotent whining bitches they really are.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Rahul M » 05 Nov 2013 22:47

manjgu wrote:personally, i agree with the article. a) firstly i dont know how this figure of Rs 450 crore for the mars mission been calculated? the project has been going on since last 18 months..in my opinion the figure is much higher but the expenses have been hidden/marked under other heads. b) the BRF posters may enlighten us as to what new tech(s) have been validated?? which will have spinoffs in other fields?

you don't know, so you just blithely accuse ISRO of lying ? this is your opinion based on what data exactly ?

re: UK as part of ESA. well, they are but the brits chose to go mostly alone on their beagle 2 mars mission, which ended in failure. the brit scientist in charge of it was very bitter, even jealous when curiosity was successful.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby rsingh » 05 Nov 2013 22:48

Where are these wellwishers of one billion poor Indians when India is forced to buy weapons from west to defend herself from rats armed by West (free of cost). Do you want to help India remove poverty? Well here is what has to be done.
° Complete ban on FREE arming of terrorist safe haven otherwise knowen as bakistan
° Ban on high tech to China. Everybody knows a strong China = Bad China
and last just be neutral to India. We do not need any help to remove poverty. Hundereds of Billions of USD will be available for fight against poverty. ISRO has done great job. Phallin has showed that our own SDRE chapaldhari scientists were better in modeling and preditions of wheather then TFTA jackasses.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby vdutta » 05 Nov 2013 22:48

manjgu wrote:a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!


Its probably because of the impression you give with your personality. The people i met love and respect India.

Every Indian is an ambassador of our Country, their impression depends on your personal conduct. Reading your language i kinda know why.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby AdityaM » 05 Nov 2013 22:50

Why is that MOM has a life of 6months, while the Viking probs are still working after all those years?

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 05 Nov 2013 22:52

manjgu wrote:a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!


With respect , I have lived outside India for 10 years now in 3 different countries and travelled extensively every where. Except for the middle east my personal experience is that the Indian passport has increased in respect over time and now is a pretty good passport. No issues at all. It is up to us to get respect for oursleves. If we keep reinforcing steorotypes oursleves then ofcourse we damage ourselves. Almost without exception everybody I have met who has travelled to India loves India. Indians are also liked or being smart, law abiding , tolerant, successful and (more and more) fun;-). The times sir they have been changin for quite a while. Cheer up and come out with confidence and pride. You have great heritage and (hopefully) a bright future. Atleast pretend it is!

Re this mission I am only a simple infantry man turned banker so my brains are in my ghutnas. But from what I hear a 45 mm mission tag, 15 month turn around, small rocket with a great start to the mission. Honestly what are we cribbing about? I completely agree that we should strengthen our military sat communications and command backbone and we desparetely need more surviellance sattelites. But surely this mission doesnt take away from that. I can assure you that these imperatives still wont happen if we stop managalyaan. That is a serious political issue that we all know about.

Well done ISRO. Nicely done ;-)
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 05 Nov 2013 23:10, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby negi » 05 Nov 2013 22:54

UK depends on the French for their satellite launches last I checked their only satellite launched using their own vehicle was Prospero-X3 a piddly 66 kg blob in low earth orbit. Now they are at mercy of their master uncle Bilwa and padosi France. Sale angootha choos rahe hain aur ro rahe hain. (sucking at their thumbs and sobbing):rotfl:

ISRO on the other hand with S200 booster will have commissioned world's third largest solid fuel rocket booster (SRB) after NASA and Ariane.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Bade » 05 Nov 2013 23:01

AdityaM wrote:Why is that MOM has a life of 6months, while the Viking probs are still working after all those years?
My guess would be the amount of on board fuel on the orbiter is limited, for orbit corrections etc.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 05 Nov 2013 23:07

Hypothetical answer to jealous journalist saying that India is poor so cannot have a space program.

'Does that mean that we stop education and scietific research? That is the solution to poverty - harnessing science and tech and management to solve problems. Perhaps if the UK did that it would reverse its decline'. ' Also the Indian social spending is about 200 billion pounds'. This is a not even a drop in the ocean. Mukesh Ambani probably spends this on redocoration. Are you bothered that this was achieved on such a small budget?'
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 05 Nov 2013 23:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby AdityaM » 05 Nov 2013 23:09

Bade wrote:
AdityaM wrote:Why is that MOM has a life of 6months, while the Viking probs are still working after all those years?
My guess would be the amount of on board fuel on the orbiter is limited, for orbit corrections etc.


The question holds true for all other indian sats around earth as well. unless they meet the industry standard for Sat life.

read on twitter, the cost of mission is Rs12 per KM which is less than autorickshaw fare. Someone please do maths to validate. This is an awesome rebuttal point.

Also ISRO, please drop a empty fuel tank over the Jealous gora desh everytime you send up a probe.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Rahul M » 05 Nov 2013 23:10

negi, UK's beagle was launched from baikanour atop a soyuz.

@TSJones, AFAIK the successful parts of the mars express mission were mostly non-UK.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby ramana » 05 Nov 2013 23:17

AdityaM, Its an extreme ellipitical orbit round Mars while the Vikings are in circular orbit around Mars.
As stated in other places the orbit and mission was chosen to get maximum value for least rupee spent.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby SaiK » 05 Nov 2013 23:18

future deep space mission should automatically mandate couple of things i said earlier
1. nuke fuel
2. data routing [near dead satellites can be used as routers] for even future deep space missions.

the byproducts are what will make poor of India to get education and better life!
- faster internet connectivity
- provisioning of internet for rural community
- edu and literacy rate to move 99% by learn from home features, etc

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Lalmohan » 05 Nov 2013 23:19

elliptical orbits have energy management advantages compared to circular IIRC

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby SaiK » 05 Nov 2013 23:22

kinda multiple sling shots using earth's gravity too no?

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby putnanja » 05 Nov 2013 23:24

After the mangalayan is captured in Mars orbit, why does it have such a big elliptical orbit, almost approx. 366 X 80,000. Why is the apogee that far out?

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby chaanakya » 05 Nov 2013 23:31

Spin offs will trickle in

Sample this one in ToiLet

BEIJING: As India on Tuesday stole the march over China by launching a mission to Mars, Beijing called for "joint efforts" to ensure peace in outer space.


"Outer space is shared by the entire mankind. Every country has the right to make peaceful exploration and use of outer space," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei told a media briefing when he was asked about India's Mars probe.

At the same time, he said, the international community should make "joint efforts to ensure enduring peace and sustainable development of outer space".


Asked whether China is apprehensive of India's space programme, Hong said relations between the two countries are on a path of steady growth. "Political mutual trust between our two countries has increased and mutual cooperation has expanded," he said.

However, the official Chinese media alleged that India is undertaking ambitious ventures to overtake the country's space programme.

The state-run Global Times daily criticised India's space programme, saying it sent a probe to Mars despite having millions of poor people to gain an advantage over China.


"India has an ambitious goal of leading Asia in this area, especially having an advantage over China," it said in an editorial titled "India's space ambition offers clue to China".

"So far, only the US, Russia and EU have succeeded in Mars exploration. Other attempts to reach Mars, including China's Yinghuo-1 mission and Japan's Nozomi mission, have failed.


"As poor as India is, New Delhi managed to carry out its Mars exploration program with a budget of only $73 million, much less than the spending of China and Japan."

India is confronted with a complicated public opinion environment on space development, similar to that which China has to face, it said.

"India is poor, so is China when compared with its Western counterparts. New Delhi has set China as its target, while China views the advanced level of the US and Russia as a reference," it said.

"China has achieved a leap forward in the development of manned space flight and space station technology. It has already been in advance of India," it added.

Besides sending probes to the Moon, China is currently building a space station to rival Russia's Mir, the international space station also used by the US.

"China is building its strategic power as well as developing its livelihood. Becoming a great power is required to manage all-round development. That's why India won't give up developing space, aircraft carrier and nuclear submarines in spite of its poor conditions," the editorial said.

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby rsingh » 05 Nov 2013 23:32

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
manjgu wrote:a) well the fact of the matter is that for any serious satellite launch , we have to run to the Europeans! b) @anupmisra..well UK is part of ESA which is one of the three entities with successful mars missons. c) UK may be a declining power but still a substantial economic power with pounds to waste....unlike india. and its only in ur mind that India is a power. go out of india and nobody gives a Sh!t to india...we all know what is the worth of a indian passport !!


With respect , I have lived outside India for 10 years now in 3 different countries and travelled extensively every where. Except for the middle east my personal experience is that the Indian passport has increased in respect over time and now is a pretty good passport. No issues at all. It is up to us to get respect for oursleves. If we keep reinforcing steorotypes oursleves then ofcourse we damage ourselves. Almost without exception everybody I have met who has travelled to India loves India. Indians are also liked or being smart, law abiding , tolerant, successful and (more and more) fun;-). The times sir they have been changin for quite a while. Cheer up and come out with confidence and pride. You have great heritage and (hopefully) a bright future. Atleast pretend it is!




Re this mission I am only a simple infantry man turned banker so my brains are in my ghutnas. But from what I hear a 45 mm mission tag, 15 month turn around, small rocket with a great start to the mission. Honestly what are we cribbing about? I completely agree that we should strengthen our military sat communications and command backbone and we desparetely need more surviellance sattelites. But surely this mission doesnt take away from that. I can assure you that these imperatives still wont happen if we stop managalyaan. That is a serious political issue that we all know about.

Well done ISRO. Nicely done ;-)


Well said. Please do post from time to time. Thanks

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby jamwal » 05 Nov 2013 23:35

This forum is the last place where I expect to see old posters like manjgu post the stuff that he did. Anyhow, here are some comments from reddit:

.
Its not like we are not investing public welfare initiatives, its just that our space department has been uncharacteristically more efficient and less corrupt than our other departments. Unlike our other government projects - there is very little wastage, high success rate, very few projects scrapped mid way through. Wouldn't be fair to whip one of our better departments for doing its job better than others.

Benefits us tremendously in communication, remote sensing, navigation and surveillance.
Benefits local industries and leads to development of indigenous capabilities and innovation.
Almost all space missions (except for TES, RISAT 1 and 2) are intended for scientific/public welfare uses as opposed to military use. India developed ICBM capability in 2012 much after it placed an object (MIP) on the moon in 2008. Compare that to other nations whose military rocket projects far outpace their civilian space rocket projects.

We will have to do this ourselves eventually (unless you contend that we dont have a right to space technology at all). Despite the help in satellite technology given by US, USSR and Germany in the past, given the nature of space launch technology and given the added fact now that we have nuclear technology no country will be sharing launch-related technologies with us ever (it'll also be illegal for any NPT signatory country to do so). So we will have to develop these capabilities ourselves.

The international scientific community also benefits. We do launches for a lot of countries at lower costs and also for countries that do not have launch capabilities. Not to mention the discovery of water on the moon through Chandrayaan-1.

Most importantly, forget nationality for a second - its an incredible achievement for the scientists at ISRO. These men and women, who never had the benefit of the superior educational system of the West, and who work for a fraction of what they could earn in the private sector in India or abroad, are achieving all this at a fraction what most space agencies would spend on similar projects.




Before whining starts about the wisdom of spending money on space research/exploration while there are other issues facing India:

1) ISRO's(Indian Space Research Organization) budget is only 0.34 per cent of Central Government expenditure currently and 0.08 per cent of the GDP(~USD 800 Million). Compare that to billions spent on "Fix Poverty" programs such as Employment Guarantee Programs(NREGA, USD 7.24+ Billion spent each year) and Subsidized/Free Food Program(FSB,USD 20+ Billion to be spent each year) etc.

2) And Mars Orbiter Mission/Mangalyaan would cost USD ~27 Million only.

3) ISRO is actually funding itself thanks to annual revenue from foreign satellite launches and sale of satellite data/imagery(that is useful for things like Google Maps for example) through its Antrix Subsidiary. Last time I checked it was INR 9 BILLION. source.

4) Data generated by ISRO and related organizations is helping the poorest of poor in India:

Voluminous data from the Indian remote sensing satellites has benefited millions of farmers and fishermen in achieving higher productivity and making optimal utilisation of resources, a senior space scientist said Saturday.

"Studies by the premier economic research institute NCAER have shown that remote sensing data has accrued multiple benefits to farmers across the country with seven percent increase in productivity and helping the farm sector to contribute about Rs.50,000 crore to the national gross domestic product (GDP) over the years," Indian Society of Remote Sensing president V.K. Dadhwal told reporters here.

Similarly, application of remote sensing data by the fishing community contributed about Rs.24,000 crore to the GDP and saved fuel consumption by 30 percent with timely advisories on weather, sea conditions and identification of potential fishing zones for maximizing the catch. source

5) And it is saving lot of lives:

India was hit hard by Cyclone Phailin, with 12 million people impacted, including millions evacuated from the Odisha coast to safety earlier this week. This was the strongest storm to hit the state in 14 years, and it devastated homes and villages in both Orissa and Andhra Pradesh states, with flooding that has closed roads and left some 100,000 people stranded.[..]

The country's satellite imagery satellites are being credited with saving lives thanks to better forecasting, and the ability to share intensity with citizens and policymakers to urge evacuation. [..]

There are 11 Indian remote sensing satellites in service, allowing the National Remote Sensing Centre in Hyderabad to help agencies forecast cyclones more than 72 hours in advance. [..]

The synthetic aperture radar satellites, Risat-1 launched in April last year and Risat-2 which has been in orbit since April 2009 have the ability to look for impending cyclones even at night and through clouds. The synthetic aperture radar in the satellites enables applications in agriculture too, especially for paddy monitoring during kharif season. Saral, an Indio-French satellite launched on February 25, 2013, can study ocean circulation and sea surface elevation.

"Those who criticise the expenditure on space science don't realise its contribution to not just saving lives but alleviating poverty," says Bhargava, who founded the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad. "You can argue that the space department gets higher allocation, but it is well justified. After all, Indian space scientist makes satellites and rockets at a fraction of the cost of similar US projects."

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby SwamyG » 05 Nov 2013 23:35

So every article written on this subject will have a standard line or two about criticisms from "home", so I tried to see who were the Indians/Indian origin who had some opposition (some form or the other). Here is a list I could find:

1. Harsh Mander, social activist and former member of NAC (led by Sonia Gandhi)
2. Madhavan Nair, former ISRO Chair
3. Manu Joseph, Journalist { http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/world ... html?_r=1& }
4. Amitabha Ghosh, India-born scientist with NASA.
5. Jean Drèze, Naturalized Indian of Belgian origin. Drafted/conceptualized first version of NREGA. Influences Amartya Sen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Dr%C3%A8ze

Have you read, heard or seen anyone else from India criticize or oppose?

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby vdutta » 05 Nov 2013 23:36

For me one of the biggest unsung hero is the crane operator at the assembly station. That man has to do a surgical job possibly for peanuts. Kudos to that man, his one mistake and bring down the whole effort but he has held his end of the promise beautifully.


No kudos for commentary team though :(

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby jamwal » 05 Nov 2013 23:37

Madhvan Nair didn't oppose the mission. He just wanted it to be done differently

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Re: Mangalyaan : ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

Postby Prem » 05 Nov 2013 23:41

Congratulations to ISRO and South Asia!!


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