INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

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Philip
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 18 Jan 2014 09:35

The Chinese are already in POK,look at our protests about Chinese "engineers" building massive road and rail infrastructure through Tibet,POK to link up with Gwadar.The armed forces have ever since China's Arunachal Pradesh being declared by them as "Southern Tibet",issuing only stapled visas from ArP. residents,etc.,have been planning for a two-front Sino-Pak JV war.Unfortunately for two decades now,Chinese apologists within the establishment ignored China's quiet build up in Tibet,the railway,intrusion into Sri Lanka,etc.I asked a veteran diplomat a few years ago why it was being ignored.His reply,"Delhi thinks differently".What have the Chinese been doing ever since? As a post below has said,kept "pushing" daily ,removing markers,altering the LAC,.We keep retreating on the ground and retreat mentally too! If "folks"were aware of the Chinese game plan,they were conspicuous by their silence.Our focus has always been mainly on Pak until we were rudely awakened by the Chinese during the last decade.It is only in the last 5 years that we've been seeing some urgent knee-jerk reaction and positive developments beefing up our mil posture.When was the decision for the MSC taken?

The Russians indeed after the fall of the USSR sold to many to keep their industries alive.China however has illegally reverse-engineered Russsian weaponry which has p*ssed off the Russians.They have never sold China weaponry superior to those sold to India.No Akulas,no BMos or Yakhonts.The Varyag was bought under a ruse.China revamped it with mostly Ukranian help.Neither have they given them stealth tech,SU-33s,and offered us the FGFA programme first,forcing the Chinese to develop their own,which now is stuck wanting a suitable engine.

One is happy to hear that no one on BRF is advocating a mil. tie-up with the US,however,unfortunately,our current dispensation has been "listing" heavily in that direction. True,if Taiwan is gobbled up by China,it will affect all Asian nations in general,it is not our spat.Senkakau islands,Mischief Reef,are bi-lateral,multi-lateral spats between China and the littoral nations of the Far East and Indo-China Sea.Should we join in the "bun-fight"?

Last night's grounding of the Sindhugosh now reportedly salvaged was another scare for our depleted sub fleet which should get top priority of the IN and MOD.Unless we have the requisite numbers with which to meet the joint Sino-Pak sub challenge,where the Chinese are arming Pak (with in the future n-tipped sub-launched cruise missiles-V.Adm.Arun Singh) to be the equivalent of their "western command", we are going to be very hard pressed to defeat the threats.The Russian advice of equipping the IN with SSGNs with a large payload of cruise missiles to strike at the Chinese ports/mainland along with supersonic bombers to hit their task forces at long range at speed ,is sound.If the IN doesn't want Russian wares,by all means get it elsewhere! The advice as said before is sound.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Christopher Sidor » 20 Jan 2014 00:10

^^^^
Su-33 was offered. But PRC was already in process of copying it with the help of certain Ukrainian entities. So it asked for a few pieces first from Russia. The thinking behind it in PRC was that it will try to create a clone of SU 33 and if it does not work, then buy 2-3 squadrons of the fighter from Russia. Russia could not agree to that as the economic costs of reactivating the assembly line for 3-4 fighters is not feasible. Recently SU-35 was offered to PRC, which is a very potent fighter, in certain cases better than SU -30MKI.

PRC's effort to develop its 5th generation fighter started way before Russia offered FGFA to us. And it was done because Russia did not have the money to finish the fighter on its own.

Akula followed the same path. Remember we have to return the submarine back to Russia after it completes its lease. This is after we paid for the submarine to be completed, without which it would still be a hull rotting away somewhere in Russia.

Russia has delivered KH-31 missiles to PRC, which enabled PRC to develop its own super-sonic air-to-surface missile first.

And all anger which russian's have towards PRC's piracy of their weapon design and weapon system has not stopped them from offering their weapons to PRC.

As far as Russia is concerned India is country to which it goes to finish its stalled defense projects. Mig-35 was offered to IAF, so that Indian order would enable Russia to offer the same fighter to its service at lowered cost of per-unit otherwise.
The best part of Russia cooperation is that weapon systems which are not available anywhere else are available. Think SSBN, think hyper/ultra sonic missiles, etc. No other country or group of countries offers these to India, including USA or any other European country or Japan.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 20 Jan 2014 04:45

The "rotting hulks" of Sov. era subs are of such good quality that many of them were used in the construction of the new Borei and Yasen class SSBNs and SSGNs! The Russians are enjoying themselves watching the Chinese running around trying to re-engineer their wares illegally and develop their own systems.Yes,eventually the Chinese because of their national political "will" and determination to succeed,while there is a "deficiency" in India ,as Adm.Prakash says,succeed in producing workable solutions which may not be top drawer,but certainly war worthy.The JF-17 is a case in point.Humble,but harmful.

Here is an interesting piece about the MIG-29K's dev.,which may have been seen some time ago.I can't remember,apols. if it has.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indi ... ution.html
MIG 29K.The wise solution
Xcpts:
Now we come to the most important bit. Despite sharing the MiG-29K designation of the izdeiiye 9.31 (Fulcrum-D) shipboard fighter developed for the Soviet Navy and described in Chapter 5, the multi-role aircraft now being developed under the Indian contract is rather different - a thoroughly updated version of the original design, The design staff of RSK MiG had to go to great lengths to adapt the fighter to the Indian Navy's requirements and the new ship from which the MiG-29K will now operate. This was also because the MiG-29K programme had been put on hold for a long time (the Russian Navy had rejected the izdeiiye 9.31, selecting a single type - the Sukhoi SU-27K (Su-33) - to equip the carrier wing of its sole CTOL carrier RNS Admiral Kuznetsov) and the MiG-29's development has not been standing still. The existing know-how, experience and hardware were a great help, but major changes had to be made to meet the new challenges.

As recounted in Chapter 6, two MiG-29K (izdeiiye 9.31) prototypes- '311 Blue' and '312 Blue' - had been built in the late 1980s, successfully passing carrier compatibility trials aboard the Project 1143.5 aircraft carrier SNS Tbilisi (later SNS Admiral Kuznetsov) in 1989-91, whereupon the fighter received the preliminary go-ahead for production and service from the Soviet Ministry of Defence. By the end of August 1992 the two prototypes had made more than 420 flights between them, including 80-plus carrier landings; shipboard operations had been performed both by Mikoyan test pilots and the pilots of what was then GNIKIWS. MiG-29K '311 Blue' has the distinction of being the first Soviet/Russian aircraft to perform a conventional take-off from an aircraft carrier (this was done by test pilot Toktar O. Aubakirov on 1st November 1989). However, the demise of the Soviet Union and the ensuing economic chaos forced the Russian MoD to postpone new hardware procurement for many years. The MiG-29K programme was suspended and the prototypes were mothballed. Still, they received a new lease of life in the late 1990s when India started negotiating the purchase of the aircraft carrier RNS Admiral Gorshkov with Russia. The Admiral Gorshkov had been built with Yakovlev Yak-38 V/STOL attack jets in mind and was 'laid off' after the Yak-38 had been withdrawn; however, she had the potential for upgrading into a multi-role CTOL carrier with a ski jump. In 1996 Russia offered the MiG-29K to the Indian Navy as the main type for the prospective carrier. Thus the two MiG-29K prototypes were reactivated; '312 Blue' resumed flights in July 1999 and was joined by '311 Blue' in September 2000.

The airframer (RSK MiG) and the avionics houses involved were facing new requirements which, in effect, necessitated the development of a new shipboard fighter - quite a formidable task. Two versions were developed in parallel: the MiG-29K single-seat multi-role fighter (which, in its new guise, received the new in-house designation izdeliye 9.41) and the two-seat MiG-29KUB {izdeliye 9.47) which could be used both as a fighter and as a combat-capable trainer. To save time and cut costs the two versions will have more than 90% commonality as regards the airframe and systems and nearly 100% commonality as regards avionics and armament; in other words, basically the MiG-29K
differs from the MiG-29KUB only in having an extra fuel tank occupying the two-seater's rear cockpit.
The single-seat MiG-29K fills the following basic roles:

� air defence of carrier task forces in BVR engagement or dogfight mode and interception of aerial targets flying at 20-27,000 m (65-88,580 ft) and speeds up to 2,500-2,700 km/h (1,552-1,677 mph) in any weather, day or night;
� destruction of enemy air assets (anti*submarine warfare, transport/assault and airborne early warning and control aircraft and helicopters) in areas where 'friendly' sub*marines are in operation;
� anti-shipping strikes against the enemy's naval task forces, supply convoys and solitary ships, as well as strikes against ground targets, using both precision-guided munitions and unguided weapons;
� destruction of anti-assault pillboxes on the coastline and providing close air support to assault groups;
� support and protection of other (shore-based) naval aircraft en route to and from the battle area;
� reconnaissance.

In addition, the two-seat MiG-29KUB can be used for proficiency training and conversion training for the single-seat MiG-29K. Also, workload distribution between the crewmem-bers during a combat sortie (the back-seater searches for the targets and selects the weapons) enhances the two-seat fighter's efficiency in both air-to-air and air-to-surface PAZ-1MK was developed by NPP Zvezda specially for the Indian naval versions as a derivative of the well-known UPAZ-1 HDU used by the IL-78 tanker and Russian tactical aircraft; its overall length has been reduced to about 3 m (9 ft 10 in), allowing centreline carriage by aircraft fitted with arrester hooks.
As compared to its Fulcrum-D namesake, the MiG-29K (izdeliye 9.41) has an avionics fit which is at least 80% new and has considerable commonality with the production-standard MiG-29SMT (izdeliye 9.1 developed both for the home market and for export. In accordance with the Indian Navy's wishes the MiG-29K/KUB will feature some avionics items of Indian and French origin.

The PrNK-29K and PrNK-29KUB navigation/ attack suites developed for the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB respectively permit navigation and engagement of aerial and ground/surface targets throughout the aircraft's designated combat envelope, singly or as part of a group, regardless of whether the fighter operates from the carrier or from a shore base. Both versions of the suite have been developed by the RPKB Federal Research & Production Centre which is conjunction with the IDK-42 built-in test equipment system (informatsionno-diagnos-tlcheskiy kompleks).

Like the 'landlubber' MiG-29M, the MIG-29K and MiG-29KUB have traded the forward air intake blocker doors and spring-loaded dorsal doors for FOD prevention grilles further down*stream. This frees up internal space inside the LERXes, allowing it to be used for additional fuel.

Because the MiG-29K/KUB will operate in a salty oceanic environment, special corrosion protection measures for the airframe, avionics/ equipment and the engines will be implemented, utilising the latest know-how of the Russian research establishments and industry. Radar-absorbing material (RAM) coatings will reduce the fighter's RCS by a factor of 4 to 5 as compared to the standard MiG-29.
Changes have been made to the powerplant as well. The Indian Navy versions will be powered by the new RD-33MK afterburning turbofan developed by NPO Klimov in St. Petersburg. The RD-33MKwhich is due to enter production at the Moscow Machinery Enterprise named after V. V. Chernyshov, is a derivative of the production RD-33 Srs 3 which has been powering the MIG-29SE and the MiG-29SMT since 1995. It incorporates changes based on the experience gained with the RD-33K engine that powered the original MiG-29K and the MiG-29M; apart from the addition of full authority digital engine control (FADEC), the RD-33MK features revisions to the low-pressure and high-pressure compressors, the combustion chamber and the HP and LP turbines. This increased the mass flow by 6.5% and the turbine temperature by 40�K. The overall effect of these changes was to increase the thrust in full afterburner by 8% to 9,000 kgp (19,840 Ibst) and at full military power by 1% to 5,400 kgp (11,905 Ibst). The use ol a so-called smokeless combustion chamber has helped to address a perennial problem - the RD-33's high smoke signature which can be seen for miles, ruining stealth. Also, while retaining the 1,000-hour TBO of the RD-33 Srs 3, the RD-33MK has had the designated service life doubled (to 4,000 hours). ,

The RD-33MK has passed a complete cycle of bench tests at NPO Klimov and subsequently at TslAM. In 2002 the first two RD-33MKs were fitted to MiG-29K '312 Blue' and are currently undergoing flight tests.

NPO Klimov has also developed the all-new KSA-33M accessory gearbox specially for the MiG-29K {izdeliye 9.41) and the MiG-29KUB (izdeliye 9.47). As distinct from the KSA-2 and KSA-3 accessory gearboxes fitted to earlier versions of the Fulcrum, the KSA-33M consists of two independent sections powered by the respective engines, each section driving its own set of generators and hydraulic and fuel pumps and carrying its own APU (jet fuel starter). This significantly enhances reliability and operating efficiency in extreme climates, allowing the advantages of the twin-engine layout to be used to the full.
The VK-100 APU (another NPO Klimov product) used on the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB is also new; it is a derivative of the well-known GTDE-117 and offers more shaft horsepower. Unlike previous versions of the MiG-29, the APU exhausts are located dorsally to reduce the fire hazard during carrier operations and enable the carriage of a new enlarged centreline drop tank. (In contrast, on all previous versions of the fighter with a ventral APU exhaust port the PTB-1250 centreline drop tank incorporates a straight-through duct for the APU exhaust.)

Currently HAL has mastered licence production and refurbishment of the baseline RD-33 powering the Indian Air Force's MiG-29s. The fact that India is currently negotiating manufacturing rights for the RD-33 Srs 3 testifies to the high appraisal given to this engine by Indian specialists. Hence the Indian Navy is not likely to experience any major maintenance problems with the MiG-29K/KUB's powerplant.

The internal fuel capacity of the MiG-29K (izdeliye 9.41) is more than 50% greater than the basic MiG-29's and more than 16% greater than that of the original MiG-29K (izdeliye 9.31). The increase is due to the provision of additional fuselage tanks (including a 500-litre (110 Imp gal) tank in the fuselage spine and smaller tanks in the LERXes) and the installation of a 630-litre (138.6 Imp gal) auxiliary tank occupying the rear cockpit; this latter tank is omitted on the MiG-29KUB. Additionally, the capacity of the centreline drop tank has been increased from 1,250 litres (275 Imp gal) to 2,150 litres {473 Imp gal) and the number of underwing drop tanks holding 1,150 litres (253 Imp gal) each has been increased from two to four. [
As already mentioned, the MiG-29K (izdeliye 9.41) and the MiG-29KUB {izdeliye 9.47) have IFR capability. The fully retractable IFR probe is tipped with a versatile adapter which is compatible with both Russian and Western refuelling drogues. Fitting four underwing drop tanks and a PAZ-1MK hose drum unit turns the MiG-29K/KUB into a 'buddy' refuelling tanker able to refuel other shipboard fighters. The mode as compared to single-seat competitors. Both versions retain the basic Fulcrum's excellent air combat capabilities. If a 'buddy' refuelling pod is fitted, the MiG-29K and MIG-29KUB can refuel probe-equipped sister aircraft, extending their range and endurance.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 20 Jan 2014 05:23

* So, India did make a diff on the current MiG-29K :wink:
* Also, IF INS Vishal goes CAT, then the MiG29K will have to be redesigned for CAT take off. The current set cannot be used. I think India is done with MiG-29K @ 45
* Also, the naval Rafale does not have fold-able wings, thus relatively occupying more space in a hanger (or other wise)

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 20 Jan 2014 07:42

"Cometh the hour,cometh the bird!".This will only be a decade from now.The IN has many options post MIG-29K.Operating the 29K on two carriers first will give it a good idea of the requiements of a follow on fighter,which I feel should be a stealth bird,ideally the naval version of the FGFA being developed.If the CDG can operate the Rafale,there is no reason why it cannot be used on a larger 65K t carrier,IAC-2/3,but its cost appears prohibitive.One can buy 3 29Ks ($32M) for the cost of just one Rafale $90-100M). If the NLCA arrives around 2020,it could make up numbers,assist primarily in air defence of the fleet,support amphib ops, but the carriers will still require a twin-engined medium/heavy strike fighter that can carry the light-weight BMos,and other advanced munitions and be able to beat off the best of the enemy.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby srin » 20 Jan 2014 09:13

NRao wrote:* So, India did make a diff on the current MiG-29K :wink:
* Also, IF INS Vishal goes CAT, then the MiG29K will have to be redesigned for CAT take off. The current set cannot be used. I think India is done with MiG-29K @ 45
* Also, the naval Rafale does not have fold-able wings, thus relatively occupying more space in a hanger (or other wise)



Why redesign for a catapult ? I think the difference is to have some sort of a tow rod attached to the nose gear to attach to the catapult.

Unless I'm missing something that necessitates redesign of the full aircraft ...

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 20 Jan 2014 20:04

.If the CDG can operate the Rafale,there is no reason why it cannot be used on a larger 65K t carrier,IAC-2/3


As I stated it is a matter of real estate occupied by such a plane. Someone estimated that CdG could accommodate (http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideaircra ... gar-00.jpg) some 5 more Rafale if it had folding wings.

Now, it is an assumption on my part that a navy would like more planes if it could get more planes aboard.

Philip wrote:ideally the naval version of the FGFA being developed


Is there a naval FGFA? Have not heard of one.

However:

Apr, 2013 :: HAL’s AMCA Stealth Fighter India’s Feature-Packed Aircraft

In Aero India 2013, India has publicized an updated design for its 5th generation fighter concept AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft). Formerly this aircraft was known as the MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft). It is a single seat twin engine 5th generation stealth multirole fighter that is being developed by India. This fighter is supposed to complement the eminent fighters like the Sukhoi/HAL FGFA, HAL Tejas, the Dassault Rafael and the Sukhoi Su-30MKI. Unofficial blueprint related work on this aircraft has been started. In fact a marine version is also confirmed as the Indian Navy contributed to its funding too. In Aero India 2013 the ADA revealed a 1:8 scale model.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 20 Jan 2014 21:10

There's been reports of a naval version of the T-50/FGFA as far back as 2010.Here is one 2013 report at the Russian defexpo last year.However,the design of Russia's planned future carriers has yet to be confirmed,barring the model shown at the defexpo.

http://www.aame.in/2013/07/naval-t-50-p ... -navy.html
Naval T-50 PAK-FA For Russian Navy's Future Aircraft Carrier

Xcpt:
At the International Maritime Defence Show currently underway in St. Petersburg, Russia unveiled a model [below] of its proposed future Aircraft Carrier. Designed by the Krylov Shipbuilding Research Institute, this Queen Elizabeth-class inspired Carrier would be powered by a Non-nuclear propulsion system &, as it would appear from the picture, have both catapult & ski-jump launch facilities - a throwback to its Ulyanovsk-class Supercarrier. This, however, is one of three designs it has proposed. Details or visuals of the other two aren't yet available on the "Interwebs".

Naval-T-50-PAK-FA-Aircraft-Carrier-01-R

What was interesting, though, was the sight of its flight deck lined with airframes bearing distinct resemblance to the conventional T-50 PAK-FA 5th Gen fighter, under current development. The accompanying article corroborated this. An article claiming that work on Naval-T-50-PAK-FA-Aircraft-Carrier-02-Rdeveloping a Carrier-capable version of the PAK-FA was on the cards, had been floating for some time, though it also claimed it would operate off Russia's present Carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov - an unlikely proposition. This model & the article does give more credence to the possibility of such a programme being undertaken. One could, perhaps, see it gaining momentum once the current programme attains a level of maturity, indicated by commencement of its serial production, or its thereabout.


Wik:
Naval and other versions

Navalized Sukhoi T-50 PAK FAs will be deployed on the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and future Russian aircraft carriers.[107] There will be a competition between the Sukhoi, Mikoyan and Yakovlev design bureaus to choose the new naval aircraft.[3]

Alexei Fedorov has said that any decision on applying fifth-generation technologies to produce a smaller fighter (comparative to the F-35) must wait until after the heavy fighter, based on the T-50, is completed.[1


The T-50/FGFA is already flying in prototype from,expected series production around 2020, whereas the FGFA is still only at the model stage.Given the long gestation time for development of a stealth aircraft ,I would place any navalised version of an AMCA to arrive a decade later than an FGFA naval variant.However,there is/was Dr.Saraswat himself talking about a MK-3 stealth version of the LCA.How was it missed or forgotten? Will post in the LCA td.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby sudhan » 21 Jan 2014 13:26

srin wrote:Why redesign for a catapult ? I think the difference is to have some sort of a tow rod attached to the nose gear to attach to the catapult.

Unless I'm missing something that necessitates redesign of the full aircraft ...


Just like how the landing gear needs redesigning for an aircraft to land on a A/C, the airframe and the nose gear needs re-design (strengthening) to allow the aircraft to manage the immense load on the nose gear when the catapult accelerates it. Or there would be heavy structural damage..

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 22 Jan 2014 22:57

INS Vikramaditya is to start its Air-Wing operation. the first batch of pilots are completing their prep at the Shore Base Test Facility (SBTF) in INS Hansa, Goa. Carrier landing is expected in a week or so.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby sattili » 01 Feb 2014 19:08

I didn't find any picchars showing MiG29K taking from SBTF, so here are couple of them from Vayu.

Image
Image

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 04 Feb 2014 07:08

sattili wrote:I didn't find any picchars showing MiG29K taking from SBTF, so here are couple of them from Vayu.
One troubling informaiton with this news is "all three sorties were flown by a Russian Test Pilot and not IN aviators", hopefully IN pilots will start pretty soon.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 04 Feb 2014 07:29

I was under the impression, few of Navy pilots were being trained in Florida.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby member_23455 » 04 Feb 2014 09:16

Jhujar wrote:I was under the impression, few of Navy pilots were being trained in Florida.


...NAS Whiting Field and Pensacola were used for training the newbies. A couple of senior pilots, including Surendra Ahuja also did their CQ on the Goshawk. But that's all 4-5 years back.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby naved » 04 Feb 2014 10:14

Perhaps the Navy doesn't want to do a trial run on a facility that hasn't been tested before in the country, with an aircraft that hasn't been tested on such a facility in India before, and with a pilot who is both new to the aircraft, and completely new to a SBTF.

One unknown at a time I suppose.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Feb 2014 11:45

RajitO wrote:
Jhujar wrote:I was under the impression, few of Navy pilots were being trained in Florida.


...NAS Whiting Field and Pensacola were used for training the newbies. A couple of senior pilots, including Surendra Ahuja also did their CQ on the Goshawk. But that's all 4-5 years back.
all these are completely different... Let me surmise..
Indian navy pilots have been flying the MIG29K from INS Hansa using the regular runway
They hve not yet flown (as of the article) it from the SBTF, only Russi pilot did it.
Russin Pilots have been flying off Vikramaditya, landing etc but not any Indian Pilot
Once, an Indian pilot (senior one) flew a sortie in a 2 seeter with a russi pilot
Indians are getting trained on carrier landing and take off usinf American trainers in USA but not iwth Mig29Ks or in STBF... This is happening shortly though...

As another poster mentione, unravelleing one Unknown at a time, taking baby steps...

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 05 Feb 2014 16:01

IN MIG-29Ks have been operating from Dega at Vizag for quite some time.It would be prudent to have the Russian experienced test pilots to first try out the land based ski-jump at Goa to certify it before our lads get going with the same.It has been quite a while since In pilots operated conventional fixed wing aircraft from a carrier having been accustomed to the STOVL SH for over two decades.There is also a 29K simulator for trg. purposes.There was a video clip some time ago of the same.These facilities will give In pilots a good infrastructure to master STOBAR ops from the VikA and IAC-1.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby A Sharma » 08 Feb 2014 07:09

Link

“An exciting event took place today – the first landing of an [Indian] MiG-29 piloted by an Indian pilot on the Vikramaditya,” Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation vice president Igor Ponomarev told reporters at the ongoing DEFEXPO-2014 exhibition in New Delhi.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby member_23455 » 08 Feb 2014 07:55

Shrinivasan wrote: all these are completely different... Let me surmise..
Indian navy pilots have been flying the MIG29K from INS Hansa using the regular runway
They hve not yet flown (as of the article) it from the SBTF, only Russi pilot did it.
Russin Pilots have been flying off Vikramaditya, landing etc but not any Indian Pilot
Once, an Indian pilot (senior one) flew a sortie in a 2 seeter with a russi pilot
Indians are getting trained on carrier landing and take off usinf American trainers in USA but not iwth Mig29Ks or in STBF... This is happening shortly though...

As another poster mentione, unravelleing one Unknown at a time, taking baby steps...


Let me actually surmise - typing in a hurry and editing your posts for typos isn't for you. :wink:

There are no Indians getting trained currently in the US at the facilities mentioned. As mentioned that happened some years back, and most of the chaps are now in Black Panthers. It should also have been rather obvious that they were undergoing basic and advanced flying training (along with US students) - so even if the Mig 29Ks were available, I don't think USN would have been going out of its way to let us land them on their carriers!

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 08 Feb 2014 08:03

RajitO wrote:... even if the Mig 29Ks were available, I don't think USN would have been going out of its way to let us land them on their carriers!


Besides, even if they managed to land the Migs on the Amriki carriers, how on earth would they have launched them again except with a crane on a pier? :rotfl: :mrgreen:

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 08 Feb 2014 12:14

First Indian-piloted MiG safely lands on Vikramaditya aircraft carrier

A MIG-29KUB fighter piloted by an Indian pilot has made the first-ever landing on the deck of the Indian aircraft carrier Vikramaditya, a spokesman for Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation told Itar-Tass Friday.

“The landing of a two-seat sea-based MIG-29K jet was accomplished successfully,” he said. “The second pilot was a Russian officer.”

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 09 Feb 2014 13:39

Austin wrote:First Indian-piloted MiG safely lands on Vikramaditya aircraft carrier

A MIG-29KUB fighter piloted by an Indian pilot has made the first-ever landing on the deck of the Indian aircraft carrier Vikramaditya, a spokesman for Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation told Itar-Tass Friday.

“The landing of a two-seat sea-based MIG-29K jet was accomplished successfully,” he said. “The second pilot was a Russian officer.”


Seriously .... where are my picturaan ?
Koi photo shoto nahin layee

Really how come we got more shots of Russians landing on Vikky ... i hope there was a ceremony and a half when our boys did it for themselves.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 10 Feb 2014 00:19

Choppy first ride home for long-awaited Vikramaditya

...
The $2.33 billion ( Rs. 13,980 crore) aircraft carrier, bought second-hand from Russia and delivered five years behind schedule, reportedly suffered a boiler breakdown during its 42-day journey, compromising the warship’s ability to cut through choppy seas at a top speed of up to 56 kmph, a navy source said. The vessel has a history of boiler problems with 2012 sea trials failing due to a design problem in the ship’s boilers.

Moreover, the tanker accompanying the 44,500-tonne aircraft carrier failed to carry out a refuelling mission near the Portuguese coast, raising doubts about the navy’s ability to replenish warships on the high seas.

A senior defence ministry official confirmed to HT that the warship faced technical problems during its homeward journey and the navy would be asked to submit a detailed report on the incidents.
...

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Eric Leiderman » 10 Feb 2014 01:06

The navy delayed the at sea re-fuelling operation due to rough sea state,
I find that insignificant and basically near non-reportable. There will be a SOP for at sea re-fuelling and that must have been followed, You do not want an oil spill and a possible collision between tanker and AC carrier.

As far as the boiler goes , they do not state what was the problem? This is effectively a new ship so you are going to have teething trouble for the first 6 months to a year by which time the Navy will iron out the issues.

Lots of canarys tweeting this sort of info, does not portend well for the operational crew on board the ships, You do not want them to behave like babus and be too timid to make a desicion.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Gagan » 10 Feb 2014 01:09

Every idiot Journalist and lifafa man is having a field day. They're showing off their lack of knowledge with these farts. :rotfl:

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Brando » 10 Feb 2014 01:10

This is the problem with shoddy journalism about the navy by ignorant journalists who don't know port from starboard on a ship. Apparently not carrying out a highly reckless and death defying refueling during rough seas is a "failure" and calls into question the IN ability to replenish ships at sea ??

Sounds like some Paki troll rather than a news paper journalist.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 13 Feb 2014 12:04


Philip
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Feb 2014 20:16

Sensible.It puts the onus of keeping the vessel seaworthy and battle ready onto the OEM.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Juju » 14 Feb 2014 16:11

A shame that the RIA Novosti paper doesn't explain who are Sevmash's Indian partners... MDL? Pipavav? CSL? :-?

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 16 Feb 2014 03:13

There was a report in the DRDO td (?) that we are so busy churning out SU-30 MKIs (at greater cost than imported ones),that we (HAL) are unable to support the aircraft.The recent trend where the OEM is being tasked to support products for their full lifespan,or the setting up of JVs in India with pvt. industry for support ,etc.,is a welcome development,which supposedly will ease the task of keeping the weapon systems battleworthy.However,even our much touted "indigenous" flagship items like the LCA and Arjun possess much that is firang.Their production rate has also been of concern and the support for the same an unknown qty. as of now,since their induction in significant numbers is yet to be achieved.

Supporting both the VikA and the future IAC carriers is going to be a major challenge,for both the vessels and their air complement.How much machinery standardisation has/can be achieved is a moot Q.At least in the other surface warships we are seeing a growing trend of standardisation in sensors,and weaponry.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 16 Feb 2014 03:45

Ser Philip,

On:

Sensible.It puts the onus of keeping the vessel seaworthy and battle ready onto the OEM.


One small quibble.

chackojoseph wrote:Indian Navy wants Sevmash to extend service contract of INS Vikramaditya to 40 years

The current contract is for 20 years.


The quibble:

Under the current agreement, Sevmash will service the ship for 20 years. However, Vice Admiral KR Nair, Controller Warship Production and Acquisition, Indian Navy, told Sevmash representatives that the life of the carrier can be extended till 40 years. He proposed joint servicing of the aircraft carrier for the period.


The "onus" is not on the OEM, it is "joint" or shared. Wake me up in 20 years. Bet the "onus" will be entirely on India. India cannot keep Sevmash afloat for too long.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 16 Feb 2014 19:16

I may not be alive in 20 yrs time to wake you up,given advancing years! However,there is no way that Sevmash is going to go under.It is the largest shipbuilder in Russia,as vital to it as MDL is to India.
Sevmash is the largest shipbuilding enterprise in Russia and today the country's only nuclear submarine producer. In 2009, the company employed 26,951 people and its revenue from military production was $533.02 million.[1]
Sevmash is currently building SSBNs and SSGNs Borei and Yasen classes for the RN aaprtf rom conventional subs.Russia also has plans for new carriers,some concepts have been shown, but has not yet revealed which design it will go in for.4 Mistrals are being acquired,two built in France and 2 the Baltisky yard at St.Peteresburg.All 4 will very interestingly be based at Vladivostok,not in the Black Sea.During the Georgian spat,the need for newer more capable amphibs was felt by Russia.There has been increasing naval and diplomatic cooperation between Russia and Japan ,despite their post WW2 island claim issues.This is a pointer to watch closely.

Just see how Russian mil/defence spending is on the upswing from huge energy export earnings.The Russian Navy is set to be the largest recipient of the $600B planned within the next few years.The Q is what are the machinery/components that cannot be made at home/indeginised in the intervening 20 yrs.,which will neccessitate support from the OEM fro the remaining 20.The same case with the C-17s where production is ending.Boeing will have to support the aircraft during their entire lifespan,expected to be around 25-35 yrs.Here we are completely dependent upon Boeing.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Roperia » 23 Feb 2014 15:08

Update on Vikramaditya by Defense Minister
<snip>
The newly-inducted aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, he said, was now docked safely at Karwar. “They are now rechecking all critical systems. A group of Russian technicians who accompanied the vessel has gone back, but the guarantee team is still there. And the Indian Navy is capable of doing the work. Meanwhile, naval combat pilots are training on the carrier, which will be operational very soon.”


Indian military will never plot a coup: Antony - The Hindu

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 10 Mar 2014 23:11

Indigenous Aircraft Carrier IAC-1

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@9.957213 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Image
Stobar with full runway and Island in place

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Anurag » 11 Mar 2014 01:09

prasannasimha wrote:Indigenous Aircraft Carrier IAC-1

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@9.957213 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Image
Stobar with full runway and Island in place


That's the Viraat! The IAC-1 is to the bottom left being towed and that's a dated picture as well.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 11 Mar 2014 09:55

MMS planning a Vikramaditya ride:

After 10 years as PM, Manmohan Singh's legacy to go down like Narasimha Rao's?

Before his term ends, PM Manmohan Singh plans to spend a day on board the INS Vikramaditya, the Russian-built aircraft carrier that's just joined the fleet of the Indian Navy.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 11 Mar 2014 14:18

Funny how late he has left it.Trying to win uniformed votes for his party before the "party is over" for him and it! At least its better than his lust for going to his village in Pak as PM.No harm I'm sure .Sharif will welcome him there even as an ex-PM.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 12 Mar 2014 09:11

Indian Navy To Open Search for Carrier Air Defense System

The Indian Navy has declined, for now, a Russian offer to mount the Kashtan air defense system on India’s INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier, and instead will seek a system through open competition, a Defence Ministry source said.

Originally, the former Admiral Gorshkov was to be mounted with an Indo-Israeli air defense system, the long-range surface-to-air missile system, which has been under development by India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation since 2007. But technical problems created uncertainty about whether the system would ever be completed, the MoD source said.

During a recent meeting here of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation, Russia offered to mount the Kashtan close-in weapon system to meet the Russian-built carrier’s air defense needs. While the system has not been rejected outright, the Navy says it wants to explore the market for alternate systems.

The Vikramaditya, which went through a refit at Russia’s Sevmash shipyard, sailed to India last month without an air defense system on board. The MoD source said the Navy has made a request to begin the process of acquiring a system.

The Israelis have approached the MoD and made a presentation of the Barak air defense system; the French also have expressed interest in participating in the competition if held, the MoD source said.

An Indian Navy official said the service has faced problems in the timely supply of spares from Russia for several of “their assets,” including submarines, and the lengthy delay in acquiring the carrier drove the decision to decline the Russian offer for Kashtan.

“Better options should be explored for getting weapons for the Russian-built carrier,” the official said.

When asked if the Vikramaditya is vulnerable to enemy attack because it lacks an air defense system, the Navy official said the carrier will function in a group where other frigates and destroyers will provide adequate air defense.

A diplomat with the Russian Embassy here said the offer to mount the Kashtan system on the ship has always been open to the Indian Navy, but it never showed interest in receiving the system.

“The Indian Navy has yet to decide the weapon systems it wants to mount on the Russian carrier, nearly a decade after the deal was inked in 2004,” said Mahindra Singh, a retired Indian Army major general and defense analyst

The Vikramaditya will be fitted with 20mm and 30mm guns along with the air defense system, another Navy official said.

The Navy has one operating 50-year-old aircraft carrier, INS Viraat, whose life has been extended to 2017, when the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier joins the service.




Posted in Navy thread also

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby member_23962 » 12 Mar 2014 09:52

Planning and Policy making is not good.... Defence ministry should have decided before arrival of vikramaditya . If a war happens today , it will be sitting duck or to protect the carrier three more frigates are needed, which will decrease the fighting capacity.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Postby JTull » 12 Mar 2014 12:36

Nikhil T wrote:MMS planning a Vikramaditya ride:

After 10 years as PM, Manmohan Singh's legacy to go down like Narasimha Rao's?

Before his term ends, PM Manmohan Singh plans to spend a day on board the INS Vikramaditya, the Russian-built aircraft carrier that's just joined the fleet of the Indian Navy.


As always, only concerned about self. If you choose to do the right thing every time, legacy takes cRe of it self. But, MMS was not one to be concerned with making decisions. Ignore and hope the problem goes away.


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