INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

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titash
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by titash »

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote:you got some good eyes. thanks.
Developed searching for the infamous Mithai, Admiral Saab!! :P :P
touché
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by nits »

Rakesh wrote:....
how come water waves or displacement looks so low for aircraft but quite high for other ship which is quite small comparably or is it more about camera angle and deck view obstructing the view?
Manish_Sharma
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Manish_Sharma »

TWITTER

@Daeroplate_v2:

we spent $1b on refurbishing Vikky, another $1b on Mig29K air wing, 1 honeytrap scandal, what did our tax payer money get? a 'training carrier' that is barely able to sail 2 weeks in last 2 yrs, a 29K unable to take sustained shocks of carrier landings and zero accountability.

is parliament sleeping ? as it stands it seems unable to help at-sea training for aviators, who are stuck using STBF in goa. it is unable to join carrier exercises that happen even in our backyard. no visibility on whether its power plant is broke? too costly to sail the cvbg?

rather than throwing good money after bad running it in dockside hotel mode, maybe they should consider making a proper hotel of it, park it in goa as hotel and casino? shift the staff to vikrant enmasse?

how many takeoff-landing cycles are our mig29k pilots getting on the vikky per month over last 2 yrs needs to be tabled in parliament and debated - in-camera if need be but debated.

this seems like another aspect of our dole/freebie culture where precious billions are thrown around casually as if political class owns that coin sheared like wool off backs of sheeple tax payers.

the defence media also seems sold out and a loud silence prevails whenever any friendly carrier comes for exercises...

Izumo, mutliple nimitz's and QE2 came and went and mighty vikky was nowhere to be seen.

https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/statu ... 0DRkQ&s=19
John
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by John »

^ Just be glad we spend another billion as Russians had asked for Vl-shtil and Kashtan.
fanne
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by fanne »

Is the claim of 2 weeks on patrol in last two years rhetorical or truth? BTW do we know how long was the deployment. USN rule of thumb is 6 months every two years.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 75008?s=20 ---> Indigenous Optical Landing System (OLS) for INS Vikramaditya by the Central Scientific Instruments Organization (CSIO). The OLS provides glide path information to pilot during landing, to place aircraft tail hook at the center of the landing area.

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 05601?s=20 ---> BTW, the system is already operational at the SBTF, Goa.

https://twitter.com/JA_Maolankar/status ... 45312?s=20 ---> Finally! These are the low hanging fruit which must be pocketed ASAP! @indiannavy

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Rakesh
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

The Ka-31 (IN-725) AEW helicopter, coming out of the lift from INS Vikramaditya.

https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... PHYe-Y8NOg --->

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ArjunPandit
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by ArjunPandit »

please consider asking him ..he's quite responsive in general...
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

@ Karwar Naval Base...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTwlDzhagAA ... name=large ---> Deck looks operation ready after the long maintenance refit routine.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... W3vPXgcQXA ---> During a planned sortie to conduct trial at sea, an incident of fire was reported onboard INS Vikramaditya earlier today 20 July 2022. The ship was operating off Karwar, and the fire was brought under control by the ship's crew using onboard systems. No casualties reported.
Aditya_V
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Some reports of a fire on INS Vikramaditya after refit.

ramana
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

What kind of a fire is it clear? electrical or oil fire?
The picture looks like quite a big fire.
Vips
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Vips »

This what the 3rd or 4th instance of fire onboard the Vikramaditya?
Pratyush
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

How come the PLAN ship dosent catch fire with this regularty?
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by John »

Pratyush wrote:How come the PLAN ship dosent catch fire with this regularty?
More than likely they are better at building boilers than Russia.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by kit »

John wrote:
Pratyush wrote:How come the PLAN ship dosent catch fire with this regularty?
More than likely they are better at building boilers than Russia.
as if they would let everyone know ?
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

John wrote:
Pratyush wrote:How come the PLAN ship dosent catch fire with this regularty?
More than likely they are better at building boilers than Russia.
I believe the Vikramditya's boilers have materials of Chinese origin in them. Not sure if they were ever replaced.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by fanne »

US aircraft carriers' availability
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9316.html

What it is saying is that in a year, US carrier is available for 3 months and available for 'surge' in 30 days for another 2 months and in 90 days in 1 month. At least it is down for 5 months in a year, where even if wanted, it cannot take part in any war.

In 1965, Vikrant sat out of war (due to maintenance) and in 1971 war it was surged (as we knew approx when we will attack). Today now, we would be lucky if both Vikrant and Vikramaditya are available for sudden war (lasting less than 30 days). If we look at US maintenance cycle and assuming the following -
1. War is unexpected (i.e. we do not have the luxury to decide time, however having said that, fight with PLA will be most likely in Oct/Nov). In winter it is tough for both side, and during monsoon, it is impossible for both sides. Summer is another window).
2. War is less than 30 days.

In both these cases, it looks like that even if we plan to have 1 AC available, they would be approx be available for 6 months. If that is the case, isn't 54 Mig 29 sufficient. It looks like, we would be lucky to have at least 1 AC available all the time.
Why not work on Mig 29, more spares (How Panikar Ji had su30mki availability improved, the spare inventory was forward-looking rather than ordering when needed, when it took months or years to come from Russia). This is also assuming that, it is not really dud but extremely maintenance intensive.

This buys us more time and we need not spend billions of dollars (I would say in the range of 5 billion dollars for either Rafale or F-18) and develop TEDBF in the meantime? Or maybe more nlca or God forbid some 20 more Mig 29K?
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by John »

Rakesh wrote:
John wrote: More than likely they are better at building boilers than Russia.
I believe the Vikramditya's boilers have materials of Chinese origin in them. Not sure if they were ever replaced.
There was claim from Russians that they sourced fire-bricks from China and those were defective but not sure what else is sourced from China. But definitely they where able to build their own turbines which likely allowed them to fix any issues they encountered sooner and improve on that with Shandong. They will definitely cover up any incidents and they have their own share of issues with the flankers but the vessels do seem more active than Vikramaditya based on SAT images.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Fanne good logic.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Fanne,

Are these post hoc justifications or something you think the IN would have factored in.
Pratyush
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

If the standard US Navy carrier deployment is of 6 months. Then how is a USN ship available for only 3 months of a year?
fanne
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by fanne »

Thanks Ramana ji!!

I have no idea on IN was thinking. If I were to speculate -
1. IN wants to buy these very capable planes (F-18 or Rafale M). Capability/Availability-wise, it is at least a generation ahead of Mig 29. It is not getting any submarines or ships any time fast, so why not get more capable planes - Even if use of Indian defense budget (not IN budget) is sub-optimal in this case.
2. A more charitable explanation - There exists a possibility, however slim, that during the war both A/C are available, and you want more planes - hence extra 26 planes
3. Mig 29 is really bad (or even if not). Maybe they will do shore duties, and be replaced completely/partially by new planes even if there is only 1 A/C in play. If two A/C is available by great stroke of luck, please refer to first point.

Pratyush, the attached doc is not big, please go through that, on average, per year basis they are available for 3 months, with the ability to surge within 30/60/90 days for another three months. 5-6 months, it is a port queen (going deep maintenance - reminds me of Kumbhkaran, he has to sleep for 6 months, and if awaken early, very vulnerable).
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by John »

From what I have put together no other explanation makes sense i.e F-18s don’t bring anything new to table that Mig-29ks cannot do.

Only explanation that make sense is navy doesn’t seem to happy with Mig-29k I know serviceability has improved but it feels like there is still teething issues with platform. Rather than burn it bridges with Russia Navy seems to be taking the high road and not voicing its concerns openly and quietly replacing them. What are the issues? These are just hypothesis

Serviceability - due to lack of parts while this has improved since induction it still doesn’t meet Navy’s standards especially given our carriers limited capability to carry ACs it bad when even quarter of the ACs are grounded. Unlike IAF maintaining Mig-29k from a carrier might be more challenging. Reports have mentioned RD-33mk having issues it is possible the high thrust required for Ski jump takeoff is causing them to underperform
them their service life.

Hardening- Mig-29k hasn’t been sufficiently improved to operate from sea. Sea salt and stress of carrier landing could be causing issues raising concern that continued operation could severe and dangerous structural issues. This means Navy is likely to move them to shore and continue to operate them even after Hornets or Rafale are procured.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by kit »

The saga of Vikky should be reminding the IN of starting to build IAC 2 and 3 in series so that they would something to project power over next decade. And that should happen now.,looking at build times involved!

Project 75 and 76 are separate and submarine capability should in no way exclude building carriers
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by ldev »

The first time any Soviet/Russian pilot ever landed a conventional takeoff plane on an aircraft carrier was a test landing done on November 1, 1989 with a modified SU-27 which was then developed into the SU-33. (Before that they had VTOL Yak-38s) By that time Indian Navy pilots had been landing on the original Vikrant for 28 years and had already been involved in the 1971 war. By that time the USSR had collapsed and all subsequent Russian efforts on the naval aviation/aircraft carrier area were half baked. The SU-33 and Mig29K were supposed to be carrier enabled, but China which bought a SU-33 from Ukraine modified the undercarriage for their J-15 version of the same fighter, as they found the original SU-33 undercarriage inadequate for repeat carrier landings, and they have strengthened and modified it further now with the J-15T version to meet the shock of catapult assisted launches from their type 003 carrier. So clearly there are deficiencies in these Russian aircraft. From what I have read, efforts by both the US and China to modify land based aircraft for carrier use have not been successful, so the problems facing the Mig-29k and SU-33, both based on land based aircraft, are not surprising.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/15 ... dF1uECKNZw ---> First visual of a Barak-1 missile being fired from a (8x3) VLS on INS Vikramaditya.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

So much for a three carrier navy :roll:

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... FaIs6I1tzg --> Report: Aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya will be out of use for some months and will require repairs.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by John »

Rakesh wrote:So much for a three carrier navy :roll:

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... FaIs6I1tzg --> Report: Aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya will be out of use for some months and will require repairs.
At this point Vikramaditya might just be one expensive write off and navy will just focus on Vikrant op Rafale/F-18 with Mig-29k operating from shore and occasionally from Vikramaditya if available.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... zRfxLQE_Pg ---> After the awaited arrival of number of @indiannavy command, fleet and establishment on social media. In a first for the service, the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya now officially joins @Twitter. We extend a warm welcome to @IN_Vikramaditya

Twitter Account of INS Vikramaditya ---> https://twitter.com/IN_Vikramaditya
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by kit »

https://twitter.com/IN_Vikramaditya

Vikramaditya's crest consists of the sun in the centre, a bow with 4 arrows representing the ship and her air squadrons, winged arrows denoting the ability to deliver firepower in all directions., the waves represent the ocean and the sanskrit inscription below the crest 'Doorakshaya Saralakshaya' means 'Strike Far, Strike Sure'.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Nice photo of the Ashoka Chakra aboard INS Vikramaditya.

https://twitter.com/thewarhead007/statu ... OsJMuXbMoQ --->

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

That is beautiful. One question - Is it ok to use it outside of the national flag by private parties?
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by rkhanna »

Vayutuvan wrote:That is beautiful. One question - Is it ok to use it outside of the national flag by private parties?
Restriction is only for usage for 'Commercial Use / Commercial Gains'. Refer 'Emblems and Names (Prevention of Improper Use) Act, 1950'

Restricted list includes National Flag, Ashoka Chakra, the coat-of-arms used by a government department, the official seal of the President or Governor, the pictorial representation of Mahatma Gandhi & Prime Minister.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

3. Mig 29 is really bad (or even if not). Maybe they will do shore duties, and be replaced completely/partially by new planes even if there is only 1 A/C in play. If two A/C is available by great stroke of luck, please refer to first point.
Are naval fighters, pilots and maintenance crews usually fungible between carriers? Given the significant differences between Vikramaditya and Vikrant, can they be easily deployed on one or the other? Does IN (plan to) train this way?
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Aditya_G_Social/sta ... k2AcbGmG-A ---> Precision guided munitions (KAB-500) handling aboard INS Vikramaditya.

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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Cyrano wrote:
3. Mig 29 is really bad (or even if not). Maybe they will do shore duties, and be replaced completely/partially by new planes even if there is only 1 A/C in play. If two A/C is available by great stroke of luck, please refer to first point.
Are naval fighters, pilots and maintenance crews usually fungible between carriers? Given the significant differences between Vikramaditya and Vikrant, can they be easily deployed on one or the other? Does IN (plan to) train this way?
Ship's crew are not.

The personnel belonging to the air group are.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Interesting, thank you Pratyush ji.
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/IN_Vikramaditya/sta ... 34916?s=20 --->

बिखरे बिखरे तारे हैं हम, लेकिन झिलमिल एक है (NCC Song)
bikhare bikhare taare hain ham, lekin jhilamil ek hai

INS Vikramaditya departments are unique but they have only one mind, body & soul with the promise,
"सागर धरती आकाश में, हम कूच करें अंदाज में, लहराये तिरंगा शान से"
saagar dharatee aakaash mein, ham kooch karen andaaj mein, laharaaye tiranga shaan se

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Rakesh
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Re: INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Navy's aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya carrying out sea trials post-refit
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 273079.cms
27 Feb 2023
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