Invincible is even smaller than the Vikrant.The Sea H's lack of supersonic flight,limited range and payload needed to be rectified with a new fighter and larger carrier.The SH's were also no longer in production,we weren't given the RN SH's radar either,lacking any BVR capability.The R have only in recenbt times pensioned off early their GR harriers which they were using aboard their light carriers in the strike role in the Gulf wars and Afgn.The Varyag was looked at,but the adm. who looked her over with his team years ago told me that her hull was in poor condition.There were no new carrier designs available.All that was required was to have worked out a realistic price and timeframe to convert the cruiser-carrier into a typical flat top.Now that the Vik-A is in service and we can see what a formidable warship she is,"better late than never" should be our attitude.In any case,this will have to be the motto of the IN,as both surface ships,subs (Scorpenes,which by now all should've been in service,and cost over $80M now!) are all afflicted with the same disease,arriving late and at much greater cost.cavour,Juan Carlos carriers are also STOVL ships.Remember at that time back,we had no access to any western carrier high tech design barring second hand UK STOVL light carriers.It is only now that we are building our very first med. carrier which has had French and Italian input.
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub ... 30422.aspxSubmarines: India Finds Another Way To Delay
April 22, 2013: India's effort to build six submarines (French Scorpenes), under license, has been delayed once again. The problem is mainly poor management. An example of this occurred quite recently with the departure of ten Spanish technical advisors for the Scorpenes. Their contract expired at the end of March and, despite the expiration date being well known, Indian bureaucrats were unable to get a new contract in place on time. Similar avoidable delays have occurred several times already and the price has gone up with each delay. Last year it was announced that the first Scorpene sub would not be ready until 2015. The new delays push that to 2017.
Building the subs in India will leave India with thousands of workers and specialists experienced in building modern submarines. All that will be wasted because the defense procurement bureaucrats seem to have learned nothing. These officials already caused numerous delays and cost overruns during negotiations to build these diesel-electric submarines. The bureaucrats mismanaged this deal to the extent that it is now five years behind schedule. But it is even more behind schedule if you count the several years the Indian bureaucrats delayed it even getting started. The delays and mismanagement have so far increased the cost of the $4 billion project by 25 percent (to $834 million per sub).
The original plan was to have the first Indian built Scorpene delivered at the end of 2012. But now, because of problems getting the construction facilities and skilled workmen ready, the first Scorpene won't be delivered until 2017, with one each year after that until all six are delivered. That schedule is subject to change and probably will, for the worse.
After the bureaucrats and politicians dithered for nearly a decade, in 2005, India finally signed a deal to buy six French Scorpene class boats. The delays led to the French increasing prices on some key components and India has had some problems in getting production going on their end. The first Scorpene was to be built in France, with the other five built in India. While some problems were expected (India has been doing license manufacturing of complex weapons for decades), the defense ministry procurement bureaucrats never ceased to amaze when it came to delaying work or just getting in the way.
The Scorpenes are similar to the Agosta 90B subs (also French) that Pakistan recently bought. The first of the Agostas was built in France, but the other two were built in Pakistan. The Scorpenes purchase was seen as a response to the Pakistani Agostas. The Scorpene are a more recent design, the result of cooperation between French and Spanish sub builders. The Agosta is a 1,500 ton (surface displacement) diesel-electric sub with a 36 man crew and four 533mm (21 inch) torpedo tubes (with 20 torpedoes and/or anti-ship missiles carried). The Scorpene is a little heavier (1,700 tons), has a smaller crew (32), and is a little faster. It has six 533mm torpedo tubes and carries 18 torpedoes and/or missiles. Both models can be equipped with an AIP (air independent propulsion) system. This enables the sub to stay under longer, thus making the sub harder to find. AIP allows the sub to travel under water for more than a week, at low speed (5-10 kilometers an hour). Two of the Indian Scorpenes are to have Indian made AIP installed.
All this ineffective urgency is in play because India's submarine fleet is dying of old age and new boats are not going to arrive in time. It's not like this was a surprise, but the Indian defense procurement bureaucracy has long been noted as slow, sloppy, and stubborn, especially in the face of demands that it speed up. The twisted tale of the tardy submarines is particularly painful.
The plan was to have a dozen new subs in service by the end of the decade. At present, there will be (with a bit of luck) three or four of them in service by then. The procurement bureaucracy is still seeking a supplier for the second batch of six diesel-electric subs. This second six probably won’t even begin arriving by the end of the decade. It's hard to say, although the defense procurement nabobs speak of "fast tracking" this project, but long-time observers are not expecting speed.
There's some urgency to all this because this year five of India's 16 diesel-electric subs (10 Kilo, two Foxtrot class Russian built boats, and four German Type 209s) were to be retired (some are already semi-retired because of age and infirmity). Because of the Scorpene delays, the Type 209s are being kept in service (but not allowed out to sea much) for several more years. That leaves India with 14 subs. But in the next year or so several of the older Kilos will reach retirement age. Thus, by the time the first Scorpene arrives in 2017, India will only have five or six working subs. India believes it needs at least 18 non-nuclear subs in service to deal with Pakistan and China.
The hulls of all six Scorpenes have been completed, but filling those subs up with all the necessary equipment is an even more difficult task. Moreover, India insists that some of that equipment be manufactured in India, and that introduces even more complications and delays. Indian firms have a spotty track record in this area.
India is also building and buying nuclear subs. India received a Russian Akula nuclear attack (SSN) sub last year. This one is on lease with the option to buy. Indian SSNs and SSBNs (missile carrying boats) are under development, as they have been for decades.
While India was largely concerned with the Pakistani navy when the Scorpene contract was negotiated and signed, China is now seen as the primary adversary. The Chinese subs are not as effective as the Pakistani boats, both because of less advanced technology and less well trained crews. India could use their Scorpenes to confront any Chinese attempt to expand their naval presence into the Indian Ocean. Thus the delays and cost overruns with the Scorpenes are causing quite a lot of commotion in India. But at the rate India is going, it will be over a decade of construction before all six of the Scorpenes are in service. At that point, India would have about a dozen subs (including nuclear powered models under construction). China will have over 60 boats, about 20 percent of them nuclear. China does have a lot for its warships to deal with off its coasts and in the Western Pacific but it does retain the capability of putting more subs off the Indian coast than can the Indian Navy.
Costs: One non-AIP Scorpene of 1500t now costs over $800M.The Akula lease:The Akula is 5 times larger than a Scorpene,carries 2.5 times its arsenal of more advanced weaponry,and has far greater speed and endurance with unlimited range and normal 90+ days of patrol,twice that of any conventional sub.Its 10 yr. lease also costs less!
As of 2008, Russia had an agreement pending with India worth US$2 billion for the lease of Nerpa and another Project 971 Shchuka-B class submarine.[12] Of this, K-152 Nerpa will be leased for 10 years to India at an estimated cost of US$670 million
The option to buy the sub at depreciated cost after 10 yrs. is also on.Just for the record,the second Akula lease is on the table,hopefully our new dispensation will firm it up,critically needed.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/manm ... 17212.htmlManmohan in Moscow: India may lease second nuclear submarine from Russia
PTI New Delhi, October 20, 2013
Cost given in this report approx., $1B. There were some other earlier reports that the second sub may have
extra capability than the first.VL silos,etc.,with some of the latest tech seen on the latest Russian SSGNs.
