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Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

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Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby RKumar » 22 Nov 2013 13:08

IAF's 'Young Ones' begin phase-out of MiG-21s

So it seems after a long service, slowly but surely Mig-21 are going to retire. It all starts with "Operational Conversion Unit" from 2014.

This thread is/will be for the appreciation of Mig-21. Like any other plane it also had its share of controversies, issues, troubles, name calling but it served India well for 50 years and will serve for one more decade before fully withdrawn from services.

Please post all important links related to MIg-21 in this thread.

KOLKATA: The 'Young Ones' will finally shed the tag of flying the oldest supersonic fighter jet in the Indian Air Force's fleet. 'Young Ones' is the name given to the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) of the IAF, entrusted with providing the final phase of training to rookie pilots after they have earned their wings.

Based at present at the Kalaikunda Air Force Station in West Midnapore, the rookies now receive training in the MiG-21 FL (Type-77) aircraft that was inducted into the IAF nearly 50 years ago.

In the next few months, the OCU will get Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJTs) to convert the greenhorns into flying aces.

"What is important is that this is the start of the phase-out of the MiG-21s. These aircraft used to be the mainstay of the IAF and were flown the most. No wonder, most accidents in the IAF were attributed to these fighters that have one of the highest take-off and landing speeds in the world. We prefer to compare these aircraft with the Maruti - the most-spotted car on Indian roads. It would be no surprise if statistics revealed that the largest number of road accidents involved these cars.

"This wouldn't mean that there was anything wrong with the cars. However, the MiG-21s have served the IAF well and it's time to phase them out," a senior IAF official said.

The ministry of defence had set 2014 as the target year for the phase-out.

The largest number of MiG-21s is based in the eastern and northeastern sector. With strategic concerns shifting focus from Pakistan to China in the last few years, Delhi has realized the need to replace these with more advanced ones. Su-30 MKI aircraft have already been stationed at the IAF base in Tezpur. "The OCU will fondly remember the MiG-21s due to its long association with the aircraft. For those who mastered the art of flying the MiG-21 swear by the capability.

The cigar shaped aircraft is designed to achieve speeds of Mach 2 and are extremely manoeuvreable in the sky - a prime factor that earned it the reputation of being one of the best interceptors in the world.

"However, this is not a fit aircraft to train in. The take-off speed of the trainer aircraft that the rookies fly before moving to OCU are nothing compared to the MiG-21s. Moreover, this aircraft doesn't possess the superior avionics that modern aircraft have. The AJTs will actually help in providing better training," another official said. It is probably apt that the Young Ones are the first to phase out the MiGs.

The OCU may be a training unit but comprise some of the best pilots in the IAF. It was the OCU that operated from Jaisalmer with Hunters during the Battle of Longewala in the 1971 Indo-Pak War and decimated Pakistani tanks.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby rohitvats » 22 Nov 2013 13:31

The thread has been unlocked. But the posters are requested to use this thread to discuss news and information about ONLY MiG-21.Lets use this thread as repository of knowledge and database about this legendary aircraft.

For the more lazy ones - Here are some links from BR IAF section on the aircraft in IAF service:

1. MiG-21: Much Maligned! http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Current/602-MiG-Suresh.html

2. The MiG-21 Bison Upgrade Programme http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Current/605-Bison.html

3. My Fair Lady - Ode to the MiG-21http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Current/606-MiG-Tipnis.html

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Rahul M » 22 Nov 2013 17:21

this thread is useless w/o pics. :)

x-post
nachiket wrote:^^From the above gallery
This has to be one of the best pics of the Mig-21s in the IAF. The unique thing is that it contains all versions of Mig-21s currently operational in the IAF.

The leftmost one is an FL, the one at the bottom left is a 21U trainer, the rightmost is a bison. Of the two in between, one is a Bis and one is an MF I'm guessing because their dorsal spines look very slightly different from each other (or maybe both are Bis, I don't know how to tell them apart. If someone does, please tell me how).

Image

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Gaur » 22 Nov 2013 20:50

^^
Couldn't agree more. Let me go nuts. :D

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Cybaru » 22 Nov 2013 21:54

What lovely photographs! Its a beauty of a plane! Now since its up for retirement, we can all safely say that! ;)

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby titash » 22 Nov 2013 22:52

what kind of rakkits is the MiG firing in Kedar's last pic??? seems to be a very very large caliber...

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby titash » 22 Nov 2013 22:56

If the OCU is retiring MiG-21s and replacing with AJTs and not MKIs, does it mean that initial "interceptor/air defence" pilot training is handled at the squadron level? I believe the AJTs don't have radar.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Austin » 22 Nov 2013 23:29

Bisons will serve till 2025 so there is long way to go link

As back up, the Air Force is looking to extending the life of its existing aircraft through mid-life upgrades. "The MiG 21's Bison-fleet will have to continue till 2025," he said.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Rahul M » 22 Nov 2013 23:31

titash wrote:what kind of rakkits is the MiG firing in Kedar's last pic??? seems to be a very very large caliber...

s-24 unguided rakkit.



one of the rarer ones.
Image

no24 sqn AFAIK these kind of paint jobs were used during exercises by aggressor aircraft.
Image

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby SaiK » 22 Nov 2013 23:44

Is that the same missile captured within a single snap or a trailing missile launch?

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 6v5uox.jpg

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Rahul M » 23 Nov 2013 00:09

2 S-24 rockets (not missiles)

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Victor » 23 Nov 2013 06:08

Image

Their finest hour - December 1971, East Pakistan.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby SaiK » 23 Nov 2013 06:44

thankz.. should have read the rakkit post. /sorry

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby VijayN » 23 Nov 2013 08:15

Not sure if this was posted before, but what the heck :D

IAF Mig 21 Bison - 1/2


IAF Mig 21 Bison - 2/2


Cheers

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby pushkar.bhat » 23 Nov 2013 09:41

Cybaru wrote:What lovely photographs! Its a beauty of a plane! Now since its up for retirement, we can all safely say that! ;)


OT

On a lighter note.. Say that about your life partner.. ;)

End OT

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Kersi D » 23 Nov 2013 12:51

Gaur wrote:^^
Couldn't agree more. Let me go nuts. :D

Image


Is it firing S 24 rocket ?

K

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Raja Bose » 23 Nov 2013 14:10

What useless fellows you are! Where is the famous photo of Kukke Suresh's aerobatic steed with the winking eye, hain?? :evil:

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Manish_Sharma » 23 Nov 2013 18:44

Image

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby RKumar » 07 Dec 2013 14:46

IAF to Retire remaining Mig-21 FL this Month

The deafening roar of the Mikoyan-Gurevich Mig-21 FL afterburner, an iconic delta-wing fighter aircraft that heralded the supersonic era in Indian Air Force (IAF) will no longer be heard after December 11, 2013, the day it is set to fly into the annals of military aviation history.

Four Mig-21 FL aircraft flown by pilots from the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU), last abode of the venerable jets, will fly a box formation as Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne takes salute at the ceremonial parade to bid them adieu.

Formations of Mig-27 ML and Sukhoi-30 MKI will also flypast the parade square in reverence to the legend of a fighter jet that remains the most widely exploited platform in IAF history. It also saw action in the Indo-Pak wars of 1965 and 1971.

Being limited in numbers, the Mig-21s played a restricted role in the 1965 war. They, however, played a crucial role in the 1971 war giving IAF the air superiority over vital points and areas in the western theatre.

In the first ever supersonic air combat that ensued over the sub-continent in 1971, an Indian Mig-21 FL claimed a PAF F-104 Starfighter with its internal twin-barrelled guns alone.

By end of the hostilities the IAF Mig-21s had claimed four Pakistani F-104s, two F-6s, one F-86 Sabre and a Lockheed C-130 Hercules and Love Affair.The pin-point accurate attack on the Governor’s House at Dhaka by IAF pilots flying the Mig-21s proved to be a turning point in the war forcing the adversary to negotiate an eventual surrender.

The Mig-21 was also fielded in the Kargil war. It was often the first choice of commanders as it provided unmatched flexibility due its unique attributes of high agility, fast acceleration and quick turn-around.The versatility of all the Mig-21 variants have immensely shaped the IAF operational philosophy for decades. The pilots, engineers and technicians who flew and maintained the Mig-21 have been strong proponents of its exceptional combat worthiness.

Besides accomplishing major operational feats, the Mig-21 also ushered a revolutionary enhancement in the technological and manufacturing capabilities of our indigenous aerospace industry.With the phasing out of the Mig-21 FL, an era of relentless performance, precision deliverance and intimidating performance will also come to an end.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby abhik » 07 Dec 2013 18:09

RKumar wrote:IAF to Retire remaining Mig-21 FL this Month

By end of the hostilities the IAF Mig-21s had claimed four Pakistani F-104s, two F-6s, one F-86 Sabre and a Lockheed C-130 Hercules and Love Affair.

Is that a type of aircraft? :-? :D

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby jamwal » 07 Dec 2013 21:58

VijayN wrote:Not sure if this was posted before, but what the heck :D

IAF Mig 21 Bison - 1/2


IAF Mig 21 Bison - 2/2


Cheers

They show S-24 rockets in 2nd video.
Never knew that unguided 57 mm rockets are still being used in A to A role.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Raja Bose » 07 Dec 2013 22:15

Image

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Rahul M » 07 Dec 2013 22:35

nice ! do post your other sketches too.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby SaiK » 07 Dec 2013 23:20

MiG-21 fighter jets to fly into history on Wednesday

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/mig-21-f ... ef_article

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby putnanja » 07 Dec 2013 23:59

Pilots swear by Mig-21 FL as it flies into history

...
"The Mig-21 FL (Type-77) was an air-defence aircraft. It was designed as such with a long nose and could fly at speeds up to Mach 2.05 (2.05 times the speed of sound). This was the first real supersonic fighter to join the IAF fleet. It could fly up to heights of 21 km. It was delta-winged and was beautifully designed. Trouble actually began after the Hunter aircraft were phased out by the IAF. Indian designers promised another aircraft that could be utilized for ground attack but this never came. Finally, the Mig-21 FL had to be used for this role as well though it wasn't designed for this," said Air Vice Marshal (retd) Madhusudan Banerjee, who has flown nearly 3,500 hours in Mig-21s.

To be a capable ground attack aircraft, its nose had to be far shorter than the Mig-21's. In the Mig-21 FL, the pilot had difficulty in spotting whatever was below. Aircraft started stalling when pilots attempted to fit them into the new role. This is when the crashes started and pilots lost lives.
...
"There was a time when the only true combat aircraft that we had was the Mig-21. It was being used for everything. When Pakistan got its surface to air missiles, it was realized that IAF pilots would need to learn to fly low to evade enemy radar that controlled the missiles. Again the Mig-21 FL was put to the test. The aircraft was not fit for this and the pilots still couldn't see the ground as they practically skimmed the treetops. The rate of accidents went up all over again and people started calling the aircraft names without getting into details," said another pilot who refused to be named.
...

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby member_23360 » 08 Dec 2013 04:48

what will be the approx. number of remaining MIG-21 that will remain in service after this retirement ?

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2013 05:13

only the 120 + bisons will remain plus the newest bis and mongols i guess.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby LakshO » 08 Dec 2013 06:23

Nice pics from Kedar Karmakar of a bird that served us well for a long time. Time to rest them as they a little long in the tooth :(

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby tsarkar » 08 Dec 2013 11:51

Three squadrons of M/MF also remain

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Dec 2013 12:27

Are all the non upgraded Bis retired?

then 120 odd Bisons and + around 50 Mig 21M's

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby chackojoseph » 11 Dec 2013 16:26


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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby nachiket » 12 Dec 2013 00:58

Aditya_V wrote:Are all the non upgraded Bis retired?

then 120 odd Bisons and + around 50 Mig 21M's

I doubt it. Why would they retire the newer and more advanced Bis version before the older M and MF?

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Austin » 12 Dec 2013 11:00

Bison's will retire by 2025 as per air chief

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby JTull » 13 Dec 2013 13:28

Salute to Mig-21 (In Hindi)

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby vasu raya » 17 Dec 2013 04:57

Many a IAF pilot would be nostalgic about the outgoing Mig-21s, yet lets take this opportunity to test out few concepts,

Assume that the Mig-21 simulator is used to control the retired Mig-21 via an ODL in a hardware in loop configuration, and this sim is installed for the rear pilot in another 2-seater fighter

A- In the 1960s-70s jet driven speedboats were tested, a good example being the K7 Blue Bird, they would need to develop sponsons suitable for the Mig-21 airframe, use the cockpit opening as an air scoop, good thing is they could crash as many airframes as they want while getting the take-off and landing right. With many lakes in the Himalayan mountain zone, future light fighters could adopt this technique instead of pushed to operate from rear airbases when the forward ones are pounded by missile strikes.

Helping the logistics is the recently developed 16 ton and upwards precision drop system which could be landed on the lake, can be used for fueling and arming

B- The jet man concept combined with the ejection seat in the Mig-21 airframe that could land the pilot safely for safe extraction, they could use dummies in the testing and each flight test will result in the loss of an airframe. This has got export potential.

C- If they got the cockpit to be used as a air scoop they could mount the Kaveri on it for flight testing, the UCAV bit.

one doesn't need humongous budgets to test these concepts and with the pilot out of the way, things are simple.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby vishvak » 18 Dec 2013 00:01

A rough landing
A well-deserved and instructive tale by Inder Malhotra

War, secrets and spies heralded the now-retiring MiG-21’s arrival in India.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Karan M » 18 Dec 2013 00:56

Aditya_V wrote:Are all the non upgraded Bis retired?

then 120 odd Bisons and + around 50 Mig 21M's


latest flight international puts number of MiG-21s 1-seaters in IAF (inc FL i presume) as 262.


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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Paul » 23 Dec 2013 14:30

vishvak wrote:A rough landing
A well-deserved and instructive tale by Inder Malhotra

War, secrets and spies heralded the now-retiring MiG-21’s arrival in India.


Philip would like to read this article.

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Re: Mig-21 Showdown begins in 2014

Postby Karan M » 30 Dec 2013 20:47

Q. No. 374 Operation of upgraded MiG 21bis
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Category:
Defence Acquisition
Type:
Parliament Questions and Answers
August 7, 2013
Rajya Sabha
ANSWERED ON 07.08.2013

Question: Will the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to satate :-

(a) whether it is a fact that MiG-21bis is likely to remain operational in its upgraded version until 2019;

(b) if so, the details thereof;

(c) whether it is also a fact that the MiG-21bis will be decommissioned two years later than they were originally scheduled to be decommissioned; and

(d) if so, the details thereof?

Answer: Minister of Defence (Shri A.K. Antony)

(a) & (b): The upgraded version of MIG-21bis aircraft, known as ‘Bison’, is planned to be operational beyond 2019 till 2025.

(c) & (d): MIG-21bis is planned to be decommissioned in 2018, as originally scheduled.


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