GSLV-D5 Launch status and post launch discussions

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jan 2014 03:08

Hiding of information, monopolising and commoditizing knowledge and deep secrecy about technology have always been the most potent weapons of all western powers.
Britain and Spain rose to super power status based on their naval superiority. they remained powerful, not because they were great, but because they, very successfully prevented the emergence of Asian naval powers (google Mughal navy). before nuclear power, areal superiority was everything. the most high priority targets in the second world war (US vs Japan) were Japanese aircraft manufacturing installations. then came nuclear power.
US tried to monopolize it, but USSR somehow managed to get its hands on it. then no matter how bitter enemies they became, they never shared nuclear power with other countries except for their closest allies. any new technology which is developed in developing economies is instantly available in western countries, with the hope to boost sales, generate forex. but new technologies developed in developed countries are always released with a significant delay in developing economies, recent example Intel core i7 processors. Knowledge was always considered something that must be rewarded, but the idea that knowledge can be someone's property is relatively new. 10 points for finding when commoditization of knowledge occurred.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 06 Jan 2014 03:14

Lungi dance! Great work by the scientific fraternity of India. Congratulations. ISRO has always left me feel proud about being born in these nation. If I were pm I would announce special package for the whole team which contributed to these success. These guys for me are the real diamonds of India. Selfless motivation to power their country into elite with ruthless perseverance. Jai jawan, jai Kishan and jai vigyan.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 06 Jan 2014 03:14

Righto. The SpaceX Falcon 9.1, which incidentally is scheduled for a launch tomorrow at 5pm EST, can loft 4.8tons to GTO costs $56.5M while the GSLV launch costed Rs 350 crores(approx $58.3M). Very simliar costs for very similar launchers. Ariane 6 under development is expected to cost around 70million euros per launch.

So newbie question time - how scalable is the current Mark2 until we need to redesign the engine/stage-configurations for heavier launches? Our target, after ensuring successful launches upto 5-6tons, would be building a launcher that can lift around 10tons to GTO I presume. The Ariane 5 ECA can launch 10.5tons, delta IV anywhere between 4-10+ tons, while the atlast V is similarly configurable.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jan 2014 03:16

Nambi Narayanan was falsely charged with leaking vital defense secrets to two fake Maldivian intelligence officers, Mariam Rasheeda and Fauzia Hassan which itself was the creation of the Kerala police. Defense officials said the secrets pertained to highly confidential flight test data from experiments with rocket and satellite launches. Nambi Narayanan, and D Sasikumaran were accused of selling ISRO secrets for millions.

However, his house seemed nothing out of the ordinary and did not show signs of the corrupt gains he was accused of. Nambi Narayanan was arrested and spent 50 days in jail. Intelligence Bureau (IB) officials who interrogated him wanted him to make false accusations against the top brass of ISRO. Two IB officials had asked Nambi Narayan to implicate A E Muthunayakom, his boss and then Director of the Liquid Propulsion System Centre (LPSC). When he refused to comply, he was tortured until he collapsed and was hospitalised. ISRO did not support Nambi Narayan qne Krishnaswamy Kasturirangan, who was ISRO chairman at the time stated that ISRO could not interfere in a legal matters. In May 1996, the charges were dismissed as phony by the Central Bureau of Investigation. They were also dismissed by the Supreme Court of India in April 1998.

In September 1999, the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) passed strictures against the government of Kerala for having damaged Narayanan’s distinguished career in space research along with the physical and mental torture to which he and his family were subjected. After the dismissal of charges against them, the two scientists, Sasikumar and Narayanan were transferred out of Thiruvananthapuram and were given desk jobs. In 2001, the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) ordered the Kerala State Government to pay him a compensation of INR 1 crore. He retired in 2001. The Kerala High Court ordered a compensation amount of Rs 10 lakhs to be paid to Nambi Narayanan based on an appeal from NHRC India in September 2012. On October 3, 2012, The Hindu Reported that Kerala Government headed by CIA product Oomban chandy, has dropped charges against the christian police officials who were CIA agents and who have falsely implicated Nambi Narayanan in the fake ISRO espionage case on the grounds that over 15 years had passed since the case was initiated. The top Kerala christian police officer involved in the case, Siby Mathews was made the Chief Information Commissioner in Kerala because the congress party is controlled by antinational christians and Italian Opus Dei plant Sonia. As of November 8, 2012 Kerala Government not complied Kerala High Court order to pay compensation Rs 10 lakhs to Nambi Narayan.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 06 Jan 2014 03:34

Acharya, why don't you take this over to Strategy Issues forum where they dwell on past slights to India? What's the point of all this buzz kill? Really.....it doesn't make you any better of a nationalist than any other posters on this thread. Good grief...

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jan 2014 03:40

The story begins before a GOM is constituted to resolve/minimize negative impact of failures. So is the case with this technology as with others which continues to make INDIA miss the boat each time, an opportunity rises on the Horizon. World has undergone multiple commercial revolutions - electronics, semiconductor, materials, computer, Information technology, internet, low cost manufacturing etc. INDIA has missed all of them. Why is that? Who blocked India

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 06 Jan 2014 03:43

I wanted to post this for a 2nd time because it got drowned out in the celebrations

The thrust of the CUS changed in phases from 7.5 to 9.5 to 8 and then back to 7.5 tons!

vina wrote: Today, we have a staged combustion variable thrust engine that has a high specific impulse and is as good as any of the best out there (when it is grown to full potential, can be the best ), in fact better than the Russian KVD-1 stage that it replaced, which when we are talking of rocket engines is a tremendous achievement indeed. So enjoy the moment.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 06 Jan 2014 04:13

Acharya wrote:
The story begins before a GOM is constituted to resolve/minimize negative impact of failures. So is the case with this technology as with others which continues to make INDIA miss the boat each time, an opportunity rises on the Horizon. World has undergone multiple commercial revolutions - electronics, semiconductor, materials, computer, Information technology, internet, low cost manufacturing etc. INDIA has missed all of them. Why is that? Who blocked India

Mostly Indians. You're on par with Zaid Hamid now.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jan 2014 04:17

KrishnaK wrote:
Acharya wrote: The story begins before a GOM is constituted to resolve/minimize negative impact of failures. So is the case with this technology as with others which continues to make INDIA miss the boat each time, an opportunity rises on the Horizon. World has undergone multiple commercial revolutions - electronics, semiconductor, materials, computer, Information technology, internet, low cost manufacturing etc. INDIA has missed all of them. Why is that? Who blocked India
Mostly Indians. You're on par with Zaid Hamid now.

Whaat?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 06 Jan 2014 04:19

Acharya ji, the least you can do is write where you're quoting from. Why send readers on a wild goose chase? Even Google didn't return any hits on some of the text you've quoted. BRF search had too many hits but none of them seemed like the right sources.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2014 04:24

Acharya, you hardly ever give the source of your quotations. You are likely to be misunderstood therefore for the quotations you make as though they are your statements.

partha · Post by **partha** » 06 Jan 2014 04:36

Late to the BRF party but attended the ISRO party yesterday

Congratulations to ISRO. This milestone is probably strategically more significant than MOM.

skganji · Post by **skganji** » 06 Jan 2014 05:17

Wonderful news and congratulations to ISRO team for achieving this phenomenal success. Its a big lesson to western countries that they can't stop the success and progress of countries like India.

skganji · Post by **skganji** » 06 Jan 2014 05:35

Deleted.

Please stop bringing politics into this thread.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jan 2014 05:51

Ahcarya and others . Please take your unconnected ramblings elsewhere (conspiracy thread for eg). Keep this thread focused please.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 06 Jan 2014 05:53

I thought I'd make a collage to remember the GSLV Dream Team.

Click for a higher resolution

Images and graphics courtesy ISRO and Doordarshan National

I didn't get the roles for Dr. Narayanan and Mr. Vishnu Karta (apologies for spelling) because the YouTube video had glitches when their titles may have been displayed.

Edit: Meant to write Doordarshan in place of DRDO

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 06 Jan 2014 06:17

One of the things that struck me looking at the leadership pictures is the humility and simpleness (eg no fancy clothes, etc) of these great scientists.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 06 Jan 2014 06:20

Nice article with some new facts:

1. Numerous modifications made, including making the rocket more robust.

2. On-board cameras were used. Obviously, we haven't seen the footage. Perhaps in future launches.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/01/ ... satellite/

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 06 Jan 2014 06:21

partha · Post by **partha** » 06 Jan 2014 06:26

Have to appreciate ISRO chairman Radhakrishnan. Considering all the internal politics (tu tu mein mein with Madhavan Nair), he has delivered some good stuff under pressure. MOM and now this.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 Jan 2014 06:31

Search for the words 'Gslv poverty', and you will find numerous articles. They have a line or two of poverty and malnutrition. Some bloke must have said a word or two and faithfully all news outlets parrot that line.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Jan 2014 06:37

SwamyG wrote:Search for the words 'Gslv poverty', and you will find numerous articles. They have a line or two of poverty and malnutrition. Some bloke must have said a word or two and faithfully all news outlets parrot that line.

No thanks, please. None of that garbage here now. Take it to the psy-ops or humour threads.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 06 Jan 2014 06:44

PratikDas wrote:I wanted to post this for a 2nd time because it got drowned out in the celebrations

The thrust of the CUS changed in phases from 7.5 to 9.5 to 8 and then back to 7.5 tons!

It is true that the cryogenic engine was throttled up and down again during the test flight. But the numbers are not entirely accurate. After ignition, its thrust was at the rated 7.5T. It was then throttled up to an uprated 8.2T of thrust, which is approx. 9.5% above the rated thrust. The Hindi commentator once seemed to make the same error you did (confusing the 9.5% increase to a 9.5T thrust), but the English commentator, Mr. Radhakrishnan, who was clearly the technically knowledgeable one of the pair, corrected him, and was consistent in saying that the thrust was 8.2T in the uprated mode.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 06 Jan 2014 07:00

'Naughty boy’ GSLV makes Isro parents proud with successful blast-off.

Suddenly on Sunday, cryogenics — the study of extremely low temperatures and their effects — was the hottest topic at India's spaceport in Sriharikota. After more than 20 years of toil, India has been able to successfully fire an indigenous cryogenic engine to launch a GSLV rocket, a crucial milestone for future projects including Chandrayaan-2 and the manned mission.

"Today the naughty boy has become obedient," said S Ramakrishnan, director of the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, referring to the many failures that preceded the moment of triumph. Mastering cryogenic engine technology which involves using liquid hydrogen at -253°C and oxygen at -183°C has been a tricky feat.

So far, only US, European Space Agency, China and Japan have succeeded. The story of India's struggle with the cryogenic engine is linked to the collapse of the erstwhile Soviet Union in 1991, the year in which India was to receive the technology from the Russians. The agreement was Soviet Union would transfer the technology to India and provide three cryogenic engines.

However, after the disintegration of USSR, Russia went back on the pact in 1993 and, under pressure from US, refused to part with the technology. But it agreed to provide four more fully made cryogenic engines, taking the number of such engines in India's kitty to seven.

The man who then headed Isro's cryogenic project, Nambi Narayanan, managed to bring in crucial components of the engine from Russia without drawing US attention. When Air India refused to fly in the hardware fearing US embargoes, the Isro team used Russia's Ural Airlines to transport it in three consignments.

But Narayanan soon found himself in prison following what came to be known as the Isro spy case. His arrest and the espionage charges damaged the team's morale. "There is no doubt the foisted case destroyed the organization's morale," Narayanan said. "Otherwise we would have had the cryogenic engine ready by 2001."

In 2010, Isro thought it was finally ready. On April 15, GSLV-D3 lifted off carrying GSAT-4, but the engine failed 800 milliseconds after ignition. For the next launch, Isro decided to use one of the last two Russian engines, but again tragedy struck when liquid fuel boosters failed.

GSLV remained jinxed as another attempt to launch it using an indigenous cryogenic engine had to be aborted in August 18, 2013 after a leak was detected in a liquid fuel tank.

Radhakrishnan said: "In the last three years, we have done 45 different tests to ensure the indigenous engine is flawless. Today's launch has come as the biggest reward."

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 Jan 2014 07:04

How is it garbage? It is post launch discussion. Member have wondered when such articles would begin, benefits of space research is always countered by such silly arguments.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 06 Jan 2014 07:09

Sridhar wrote:
PratikDas wrote:I wanted to post this for a 2nd time because it got drowned out in the celebrations

The thrust of the CUS changed in phases from 7.5 to 9.5 to 8 and then back to 7.5 tons!

It is true that the cryogenic engine was throttled up and down again during the test flight. But the numbers are not entirely accurate. After ignition, its thrust was at the rated 7.5T. It was then throttled up to an uprated 8.2T of thrust, which is approx. 9.5% above the rated thrust. The Hindi commentator once seemed to make the same error you did (confusing the 9.5% increase to a 9.5T thrust), but the English commentator, Mr. Radhakrishnan, who was clearly the technically knowledgeable one of the pair, corrected him, and was consistent in saying that the thrust was 8.2T in the uprated mode.

Oh, I see. Thank you for the correction. 8.2 T it is then!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2014 07:10

spacex does seem to be exploring a lot of new era concepts including getting the 1st stage back to launch site in minutes and second stage via orbital re-entry later. also pneumatic pushers for stage separation to leave things more intact for reuse.

where do they get their cryogenic engines from? inhouse? their Falcon9 seems like a lot to have developed from scratch in just 10 years.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 06 Jan 2014 07:16

Singha wrote:spacex does seem to be exploring a lot of new era concepts including getting the 1st stage back to launch site in minutes and second stage via orbital re-entry later. also pneumatic pushers for stage separation to leave things more intact for reuse.

where do they get their cryogenic engines from? inhouse? their Falcon9 seems like a lot to have developed from scratch in just 10 years.

NASA gave them the technology a part of their strategy to allow private players to be involved in heavy launches.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 06 Jan 2014 07:41

From nasaspaceflight.com
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/01/ ... satellite/

Allowable error margins for the launch are plus or minus 5 kilometers (3.1 mi, 2.7 nmi) in perigee altitude, 675 kilometers (420 mi, 365 nmi) apogee altitude, and a tenth of a degree inclination.

We achieved 40 meters perigee error and 50 Kms apogee error which was well within the required limits.Does anyone know the inclination error ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2014 07:43

disha wrote:^^ Just saw Suraj's post. The perigee precision is rounded off by T.S to KM., from the speeches it appears to be "only" 40 metres.

Yes, it is only 40 metres. Target was 180 Kms and achieved was ~ 179.96 Kms.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2014 07:44

prasannasimha wrote:Does anyone know the inclination error ?

I heard that the inclination was exact, 19.3 deg as required.

partha · Post by **partha** » 06 Jan 2014 08:09

Good pictures of the GSLV D5 rocket here - http://www.isro.org/gslv-d5/Imagegaller ... hicle.aspx

Outer cover of the cryogenic stage was painted black. Is there any significance to the black color?

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Jan 2014 08:31

What news of the satellite health itself

. I have heard nothing in the nature of solar panels being deployed, signal picked up by MCF Hasan etc.

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 06 Jan 2014 08:35

The fact that there are private parties coming up with cheaper launches shows that there can be some efficiencies that can be gotten in the system. The fact that some private parties could be cheaper than the already frugal and baniya yindoos is something to be noted. May be they do not have to have a huge research wings owing to the fact that they do get some tech from NASA and also being private co they inherently do have less bureaucracy and lower admin costs. That fight might be some time away for India for now.

But It is time ISRO work on a RD-180 style liquid first stage rockets to increase the flexibility and options. Now that the cryo is done and probably be validated and tuned with few more launches, it is time to work on the next project of Reusable Launch vehicle and a decent first stage liquid engine to be worked on for the next 10 - 15 years.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2014 08:36

partha wrote:Is there any significance to the black color?

To keep the innards of the cryo stage as cool as possible in the outer space in which the engine operates.

partha · Post by **partha** » 06 Jan 2014 08:37

SSridhar wrote:
partha wrote:Is there any significance to the black color?
To keep the innards of the cryo stage as cool as possible in the outer space in which the engine operates.

Thanks. Makes sense considering the ultra low temperature of the fuels.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2014 08:38

arun wrote:I have heard nothing in the nature of solar panels being deployed . . . .

I thought solar panel deployment was announced yesterday itself in one of the speeches after the launch.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Jan 2014 08:39

SwamyG wrote:How is it garbage? It is post launch discussion. Member have wondered when such articles would begin, benefits of space research is always countered by such silly arguments.

Please don't post such drain inspector reports on this thread, it will invite a warning.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Jan 2014 08:40

Singha wrote:spacex does seem to be exploring a lot of new era concepts including getting the 1st stage back to launch site in minutes and second stage via orbital re-entry later. also pneumatic pushers for stage separation to leave things more intact for reuse.

where do they get their cryogenic engines from? inhouse? their Falcon9 seems like a lot to have developed from scratch in just 10 years.

NASA saar. They get massive amounts of help from NASA in all aspects, more than any other private player.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Jan 2014 09:02

SSridhar wrote:
arun wrote:I have heard nothing in the nature of solar panels being deployed . . . .
I thought solar panel deployment was announced yesterday itself in one of the speeches after the launch.

Solar panel deployment followed within few seconds of satellite separation. It was announced (it is there in the youtube video)., but who cares for GSAT when the flavor of the day is the CUS.