Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby arshyam » 02 Mar 2014 22:05

chetak wrote:A.K. Antony's hallowed bubble finally bursts

India also purchased three Phalcon AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) mounted on an IL-78 heavy-lift aircraft. This too was on a single-vendor system. Many wonder whether this system was needed at all!



The only statement I don't agree with, otherwise, great article. I hope the Chief speaks out after the dust has settled - I can understand if he does not want to look political by speaking in public so close to the elections. Still cannot get over the feeling of inspiration when we heard him speak to a group of students on DD. Damn.

The CAG reports and this development should be raised in parliament (is it in session now?) - if they can force AKA out of MoD, it will be a huge blow to the UPA. I don't think the BJP should shy away from the inevitable AKA vs. GF comparisons that will arise, though GF wasn't perfect, he was much better in many ways. Will the BJP do it?

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby NRao » 03 Mar 2014 01:27

Battle for Top Posts Turns Army, Navy into Warzones

According to sources in the Indian armed forces, the tug-of-war that claimed Admiral D K Joshi’s job has been on for six months now. Trouble for Joshi, who is perceived as outspoken and honest, didn’t begin with INS Sindhurakashak submarine sinking in Mumbai on August 14. It actually began when Defence Minister A K Antony rapped the navy for “frittering away nations assets” at an in-camera naval commanders conference on November 23 last.


The Saint seems to take a great deal of pleasure in creating chaos. ?????

Joshi was upset that Antony’s comments in a closed-door meet was made public through a ministry press release and he vehemently defended the navy on its safety record at the December 2 annual press conference. With that began a series of reports on 10 incidents, which created an impression that the Navy was careless in its operations, top naval sources said.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby johneeG » 03 Mar 2014 05:41

KJoishy wrote:
Rahul M wrote:by that token he should accept credit only when he himself does something !! and by that token MMS has no responsibility for the non-performance of his govt !

it does not work that way. if there is indeed a spate of avoidable mishaps the man at top has to take responsibility !

>> More like an act of desperation than a sign of moral responsibility.

how so ?


What I am saying is that resignation is not the answer. It looks like an attempt to be a martyr. That crook VP Singh played this same card over and over again "I walk around my PM office with a resignation letter in my pocket".
The authorities (whoever it is) appointed him to the role. It is a leadership role where the person fixes things that have gone wrong. This kind of resigning on moral grounds is just an attempt to claim high moral ground. It looks like he is in deeper trouble over something we don't know.

So as the boss, he is responsible. But he took the cowards way out by running away. He should have come up with a plan instead.

It is another matter if he feels that he is incapable to fix the problem. In that case, he is right to resign.


The highlighted parts seem contradictory. If X is responsible for the problem directly or indirectly, then how can X be part of the solution. This applies to the entire chain of command going to the very top(including PM), not just in this case but in all cases. I am not saying that resignation is the answer. But, when is it time to resign or get fired? How much becomes too much?

Clear standards and guidelines need to be in place to define when a person cannot continue in a post(bureaucratic & political) anymore.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby SaiK » 03 Mar 2014 07:39

what we sow, is what we reap! that too it keeps coming down in circles as the new seeds keep dropping!! cancerous corruptions to the core is the backbone of all contentions we have. this can kill the nation than any known enemy in the visibilty around us can do to us. my only issue is, how come we keep sowing these seeds insipite of all these 60 years of bad seedings.

fundamentally, we have a screwed up system... oh yeah.. we can otherwise pat ourselves on the back, for all the other things... which actually does not make sense at all. corrective setups can happen only by a good change. fundamental changes are needed.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby putnanja » 03 Mar 2014 11:59

Appalling, the state of the batteries in these submarines!

96 hours before death, INS Sindhuratna officer foretold disaster

...
The officer, whose identity is being protected for obvious reasons, currently serves at the Western Naval Command, and has written in detail about his chance encounter with Lt Manoranjan on Feb 22 at the Naval Officers' Mess, an e-mail currently doing the rounds within the Indian Navy.
...
His conversation to Headlines Today and his e-mail to seniors in the Indian Navy, make for the most disturbing commentary on the unacceptable dangers being imposed on Indian submariners during peacetime, beyond the inherent risks of the job.

"Just last week, I sat opposite a dashing, flamboyant, square-jawed Lieutenant wearing a Submariner badge alongside a Divers' badge. Polite conversation done, I asked him about the submarine arm. His reply, typically direct of military youth, 'We sail on a bomb, Sir'", the serving officer has told Headlines Today. The officer quotes Lt Manoranjan as having said, "The batteries are so old that despite the ten times effort to maintain, they still produce ten times the gas. The hydrogen burners simply can't cope."

More disturbingly, when the officer asked Lt Manoranjan why he hadn't flagged the issue up the naval chain of command, the young officer is quoted to have said, "Sir, everybody is aware. It's a point at the Commander's Conference attended by the entire higher military leadership - navy and civilian," adding, "Battery pit fires are the order of the day sir."
...
...
The officer has also told Headlines Today that his anger is shared by several in the navy who cannot, for obvious reasons, step up and speak out. He indicated that his encounter with Lt Manoranjan just four days before a death he had virtually foretold, was simply "too much to keep silent about".

"Some part of the accountability should be with the people seated at the Command and Naval Headquarters, where they are equally responsible. The ministry of defence is an integrated headquarters, but unfortunately they don't share the responsibility. I think it is the collective responsibility from the bottom, from the electrical officer who should have said that you can't sail, to the minister or the headquarters who are responsible for supplying these weapons. I think everybody down the chain is responsible," the officer said.

Also, as reported, a dramatic warning by the Navy in 2010 to the Defence Ministry on the dangerous state of affairs in the submarine arm, has been almost meticulously ignored for four years now.
....


It is criminal negligence if the bureaucracy sat on the file for so long! Who will hold the bureaucrats responsible??

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Singha » 03 Mar 2014 12:06

the surviving 9 kilos are in dire danger for sure. it might be prudent to stand them down until ALL expired bats can be replaced. maybe keep 2-3 in service with the best bats, start making new ones on war footing and sail the rest on surface with hatch open only.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby negi » 03 Mar 2014 12:16

The directive has to come from the chief i.e. We don't sail unless safety checks are cleared. MOD then would be responsible in case our naval fleet is found lacking sufficient depth . What we see is a classic case of a deadlock everyone is just passing the buck and the crew continues to sail hoping nothing goes wrong.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby negi » 03 Mar 2014 12:22

Now what is going to happen is someone is going to have a shopping pang and will place an overnight order for batteries from phoren supplier and these will be imported at 10*x their normal price and things will return to normal and cycle will repeat .

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Singha » 03 Mar 2014 12:29

alternative is Hilife has qualified battery as they are claiming, they could be the 2nd source and both domestic makers urged and paid to ramp up production not just for in-boat sets but new onshore reserve to be built up.

to do nothing will just result in more people getting killed now.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Austin » 03 Mar 2014 12:40

If the state of Kilo Batteries are that bad as it made to be , I wonder if we lost Sindhurakshak for the same reason and why MOD is keeping mum on the result of the explosion

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby chetak » 03 Mar 2014 12:41

Singha wrote:alternative is Hilife has qualified battery as they are claiming, they could be the 2nd source and both domestic makers urged and paid to ramp up production not just for in-boat sets but new onshore reserve to be built up.

to do nothing will just result in more people getting killed now.


It may take a long time to qualify the hilife batteries for the Kilo requirement.

These hilife guys were encouraged to go in for litigation.

Red tape and babu vested interests will win the day and sink the submarine.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby member_23694 » 03 Mar 2014 16:12

The real problem that the country faces are :
- too much corruption at one end. Person's involved in such corruption simply don't care for the Armed forces
- then there are people who make just allegation without any proof which in turn derail the procurement process
and so they too don't care for the Armed forces
- then there is another group. They will not do anything just to be clear of any corruption allegation. So they do
too don't care for the Armed forces.
Honestly i could have used a more tough language for the above but skipping it for now.

Now if the Armed forces modernization are being taken care mostly by people from the above categories then could someone please tell me how does it matter to them if 2 or 20 soldiers die.
Point is this has always been the story. Our soldiers die because of poor equipment and the rest of us can at best say some good words, give gun salute and then things are back to normal.

And then if someone says that cost is an issue then please keep all such obsolete items in a dock or hangar rather than trying to project a blue water navy or a fantastic airforce capable to take on the world

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Karan M » 03 Mar 2014 18:44

Singha wrote:the surviving 9 kilos are in dire danger for sure. it might be prudent to stand them down until ALL expired bats can be replaced. maybe keep 2-3 in service with the best bats, start making new ones on war footing and sail the rest on surface with hatch open only.


that useless RM will say delays are excusable, as long as "honesty" is there.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2014 18:56

Ramana mentioned how 20+ admirals resigned in the US over an issue.It produced results.I am sure that if old -time chiefs like Adm.Ronnie Pereira or Adm.Stan Dawson were in charge today they would take tough decisions and stand down all defective boats and inform the DM that until his requirements were met,the navy would not operate submersible coffins.In those days even junior officers told their seniors politely when it was not possible to carry out orders for very good reasons.I know of one senior officer who said NO to his boss on an issue,and lost the chance of becoming chief.

It is past time for the current crop of senior officers of the armed forces to stand firm and if need be resign like Adm.Joshi when it is impossible for them and their service to function safely and remain battleworthy in the face of the horrendous dereliction of duty by the Deaf. Min and the MOD babus.There is a new wind sweeping across India.This is the time in the affairs of the armed forces,which must be taken "at the flood" by those at the helm of their respective services.Right now is the time for all retired chiefs and top brass to also come out of their shells and demand that the new dispensation must take swift and firm decisions.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby harbans » 03 Mar 2014 19:01

This may cause some heartburn, but for long i have advocated at the minimum for the Navy doing away with classical command systems. IMO it is not possible for non technical Commander to have complete command and control situational grasp on all aspects. I have advocated for a long time that all Officers be Engineering graduates at the minimum. Since vessels started being propelled mechanically, a lot of changes have happened. Navigation once a very tricky affair is much simpler for example. The complexity of engineering systems meanwhile has only gone up. I cannot imagine why should a Commander who knows more hydrogen is being produced than can be coped with will allow sail the sub. Unless he assumes that somehow the engineering folks will manage. This is devolving of responsibility at some level. Possibly that devolving kept coming from higher ups. Whatever it was the young on the hands guys that paid with their lives. Anyways it's IMO>

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby negi » 03 Mar 2014 19:31

^10000000 +

Sir whiskey swilling , golf playing numb nuts don't know that; back in 2001 at 17 SSB for naval engg entrance I was told that my marks in PCM were of no use for they were looking for some undefinable officer like qualities (engg kya ghante se karayenge ? ). The fauj in India still works on 100% josh but little hosh questions cannot be asked , orders need to be followed to the 'T' and people who have new ideas are seen as rebels . Sab moti budhdhi wale hain.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby SaiK » 03 Mar 2014 20:29

still no escuse to management nor command and control structure just based on technical aspects alone. afsars at higher up the command chain always have to have mappings to scenarios, quality attributes to definitions, technical scenarios to ops controls, and everything apples to oranges mappings. if something is missing, it becomes afsar's responsibility to engage the right connections and get to brasstalks immediately via the mappings and connect the dots. one need to be technically savy, but only need not to be logically sound with the logical aspects mapped to technical or ops aspects.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby nelson » 03 Mar 2014 20:44

AFAIK, all officer trainees of Indian Navy graduate with B Tech degree since 2013. Yes, even the executive branch.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... eferral=PM

....
It is historical milestone in the transformation process of the Navy, where our technology intensive service has formally transited to B.Tech qualification for its officer trainees, from a
hitherto BSc degree.
....


http://indiannavy.nic.in/sites/default/ ... May_13.pdf

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2014 21:24

Times Now.Former service officers,veterans ask how "Scamthony" can escape responsibility.The BJP say resignation is not enough.Quite right.

Many Indians are saying that Scamthony and his gang of babus should be arrested and be tried for "manslaughter!"

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby harbans » 03 Mar 2014 21:55

Nelson thanks, it's good to hear they've finally gone that mile. However it will take a while these pass outs come to higher ranks and positions in command.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Prem » 03 Mar 2014 23:21

Karan M wrote:
Singha wrote:the surviving 9 kilos are in dire danger for sure. it might be prudent to stand them down until ALL expired bats can be replaced. maybe keep 2-3 in service with the best bats, start making new ones on war footing and sail the rest on surface with hatch open only.


that useless RM will say delays are excusable, as long as "honesty" is there.


Same old question, Is it good to have honest servant, employee who make you loose 1k a day or a crook who make you 600 a day and pocket extra 400 for himself. These honest old cows need to sent to slaughterhouse so their skin can be used for Winter clothing and shoes.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Rahul M » 03 Mar 2014 23:26

AFAIK all current navy entrees thru' NDA emerge as engineers, since last year or so.

karan, Sri Sri snow-white mundu doesn't actually care for honesty, only for the perception of being honest. there have been enough dishonesty under his nose, some of which he actively condoned.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby A Sharma » 03 Mar 2014 23:32

AKA honesty is being overstated.There are always other ways of making money like selling Mrs Anthony painting's for 28 cr to govt bodies.

Defence minister's wife makes paintings worth Rs 28 crore

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Yagnasri » 03 Mar 2014 23:43

She was a clark in Canara Bank and he used to say that he was living on her salary. Now he can say that he is living on her paintings money. As per the UndieTV the fire started in the wiring and not in the batteries. So misinformation already started from the mafia rulers.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby negi » 04 Mar 2014 00:41

harbans wrote:Nelson thanks, it's good to hear they've finally gone that mile. However it will take a while these pass outs come to higher ranks and positions in command.

Btech degree in itself does not mean much there are thousands of mom and pop shops which give a Btech ; likewise every NDA graduate gets a degree from JNU. Fact is those who go for Engg have a PCM cut off of 75 while for NDA there is no cut off even a pass class in 12th is enough . Finally fact is only NDA passouts reach beyond Commodore and above the system is very archaic executive>engineering > others , then within the executive seamen>Submariners>aviation; then chacha bhatijawad like RIMCians etc etc.

Even Rahul Gandhi has a tfta degree so what gives ? Question is how are folks shortlisted ?
Last edited by negi on 04 Mar 2014 00:55, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby ramana » 04 Mar 2014 00:42

If fire started in the wiring then its even more egregious for the wiring also needed to be replaced along with the out of date/expired batteries.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby negi » 04 Mar 2014 00:47

Rahul only naval college of engg and naval architecture guys get a Btech equivalent degree , NDA passouts get Bsc or equivalent degree from JNU.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby ramana » 04 Mar 2014 02:04

Good news but AKA has nmanaged to sink the sub fleet:

dinesha wrote:Test of Sub-Launched Missile K-15 on March 10.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... xQ6JfmSwpo

Test of Sub-Launched Missile Soon

The DRDO is getting set to conduct a crucial trial of sub-marine launched ballistic missile (SLBM) B-05, earlier known as K-15, from an underwater platform off the Visakhapatnam coast soon. The test would pave the way for its first ever test from a nuclear powered submarine later this year.

A reliable source at the Chandipur test range told this paper that the nuke-capable missile is likely to be test-fired from a pontoon (replica of a submarine) nearly 20 metre under sea off the Vizag coast on March 10.

Though earlier it was scheduled to be test-fired from the indigenously built nuclear powered submarine INS Arihant, the latter is yet to be readied for live trials. Sea trials of the submarine have not been started yet even though it went critical on August 10 last year.

This submarine is a part of the country’s Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) programme. India is the fifth country to have this technology after the US, Russia, France and China. It has to complete at least two to three trials before the deployment. Four more submarines of this class have been planned.

B-05 is the world’s best weapon in this class. Flying at hypersonic speed, the missile cannot be spotted until it is virtually upon the target. It engages in a series of terminal manoeuvres designed to defeat enemy missiles.

SLBM is a part of India’s ‘nuclear triad’ (air, ground and submarine-launched weapons) and invulnerable second-strike weapon as projected in the nuclear doctrine. The missile can be compared with the Tomahawk missile of the US.

DRDO scientists in presence of the Navy officials will conduct the test from a submerged pontoon as the Arihant submarine has not been fully ‘operational’. Radars, telemetry systems and other tracking equipment have been dispatched to various locations to track the missile properly.

The indigenously developed B-05 missile having a strike range of around 750 km is 10 metres in length and one metre in diameter. Its launch weight is about 10 tonnes.



Philip Have you read the RADM. Raja Menon op-ed with an open mind? What if the non-funding the Sub fleet is a CBM from UPA govt which AKA implements? I mean all his clean mundu stuff is hogwash to ensure no teeth remain in Indina military as a CBM. No Cold/Garam start of any sort. Zilch.

He lets IAF trial military jets for two years and then sits on the files for whatever reasons and the deal is in limbo.
He does not allow maintenence spares for the sub fleet.
Recall during Kargil and Parakram the IN was near Karachi in a jiffy.

Army well he unleashes a faction fight among the officers with fake line of succession as if its monarchy and doesn't find even one supplier for the artillery system even when its the US govt military to military sales!

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Karan M » 04 Mar 2014 02:13

ramana, you were the first to put things together and note the decay of capabilities in specific areas was a CBM deliberately done by the UPA chamberlains and quislings led by MMS. now vishnu bhagwat says much the same thing in his recent oped.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby ramana » 04 Mar 2014 02:24

BRF ahead of the curve and all that. However I tried to fit a rational actor theory and it didnt make sense as to why someone worried about his clean mundu doesn't mind all the dirt flying around in his ministry! He would try to fix the dirt so his mundu remains clean as a result.
So there must be some other explanation.
The CBM theory is a good CT that fits.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Nikhil T » 04 Mar 2014 03:03

A Sharma wrote:AKA honesty is being overstated.There are always other ways of making money like selling Mrs Anthony painting's for 28 cr to govt bodies.

Defence minister's wife makes paintings worth Rs 28 crore


I don't know how many times does this news have to be debunked. The same source also carried a clarification a day after publishing the news above. Here's the operative part:

To make her stand clear, Elizabeth has set aside the rumous and in an effort to clarify facts, said through her Facebook account, "I am posting this message after seeing some rumours circulating in the internet about an art exhibition. The exhibition had a total of 24 art exhibits (works of others included) and were sold for a cumulative Rs. 16 lakhs." She further clarified, "The controversial painting circulated in news and social media was not sold to Airport Authority of India, but to a private art collector for a figure of Rs. 95,000. AAI had bought four paintings for a total of Rs. 2.5 lakhs."


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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Vayutuvan » 04 Mar 2014 04:12

Negi, aren't pilots (they do go to NDA, right?) engineers? (i.e. they get an engineering degree as well as equivalent training).

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Philip » 04 Mar 2014 07:22

Ramanna ,I was authoritatively told in Delhi in recent times,that the aim in an insidious US strategy to weaken and destroy India's military capability so that it cannot deal decisively with either Pakistan or China.By preventing timely repairs/refits of Russian origin weaponry,the US through FMS and the Quisling Singh and his dhoti clad Sancho Poncho ,there will be an orchestrated clarion cry for replacing "Russian junk" with new weaponry...and no guesses from where the new weaponry will come in deals worth dozens of billions for an Uncle called Sam! The Rafale deal is allegedly also being deliberately delayed and sabotaged by the US.

The ultimate aim is to make India an impotent US "protectorate",where we cannot even fart at the enemy without getting US approval.Look how we have become so impotent against Pakistan,who are strugling to counter its internal strife. It is the US which has armtwisted us with ease not to disturb Pak's comfort on the border even as it continues to send over terrorists.Snake-oil Singh's reward from Pak was to have been a grand return to his roots! The networking of the Indian Navy into the USN's battle plans is its predominant aim,as it wants to "acquire" the IN as a counter to China.The rush of exercises with the USN and its military allies has overstretched and overworked the IN's ancient sub fleet in particular.Watch also how there are no scandals involving US firms (thus far).This is because pay-offs are allegedly made directly by the US govt. to its collaborators through the FMS route.The prices are all fixed before to include kickbacks.A former IN chief was bitterly against the FMS route,saying it worked totally in favour of the seller.See how Tony B.Liar is being paid millions for turd rate speaking assignments for his dragging the UK into the Iraq War.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Austin » 04 Mar 2014 08:45

putnanja wrote:"Just last week, I sat opposite a dashing, flamboyant, square-jawed Lieutenant wearing a Submariner badge alongside a Divers' badge. Polite conversation done, I asked him about the submarine arm. His reply, typically direct of military youth, 'We sail on a bomb, Sir'", the serving officer has told Headlines Today. The officer quotes Lt Manoranjan as having said, "The batteries are so old that despite the ten times effort to maintain, they still produce ten times the gas. The hydrogen burners simply can't cope."

More disturbingly, when the officer asked Lt Manoranjan why he hadn't flagged the issue up the naval chain of command, the young officer is quoted to have said, "Sir, everybody is aware. It's a point at the Commander's Conference attended by the entire higher military leadership - navy and civilian," adding, "Battery pit fires are the order of the day sir." :shock:
...


So is it the case that Sub Batteries do produce Hydrogen and they need to be burned out ? Exactly how does the burn out process takes place ? Sounds like a dangerous thing.

Cant believe when he says Battery pit fires are order of the day ? Is that a normal thing and why do they sail out with such subs ?

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Austin » 04 Mar 2014 09:38

Deceased Lt. Manoranjan: We are sailing on a bomb


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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby member_25400 » 04 Mar 2014 09:55

Austin wrote:So is it the case that Sub Batteries do produce Hydrogen and they need to be burned out ? Exactly how does the burn out process takes place ? Sounds like a dangerous thing.
Cant believe when he says Battery pit fires are order of the day ? Is that a normal thing and why do they sail out with such subs ?


Sub-batteries produce hydrogen when charging. Buildup of hydrogen is extremely dangerous as it can lead to an explosion. So good detection procedures, avoiding any sparks/short-circuits, controlled burning/flaring of hydrogen (to avoid buildup), good ventilation and improved maintenance procedures are common responses. I've read of US diesel boats (dozens of years ago, US doesn't do diesel now) jury rigging burners to go the entire mission.

As in everything, size is a key; small pilot lamp size fires are not as much of an issue as larger ones. Fires on any sub *are* dangerous. If it is routine/across the fleet/larger, or even due to systemic issues in equipment, maintenance, detection,management or prevention, then it is a real concern.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Deans » 04 Mar 2014 10:05

harbans wrote:This may cause some heartburn, but for long i have advocated at the minimum for the Navy doing away with classical command systems. IMO it is not possible for non technical Commander to have complete command and control situational grasp on all aspects. I have advocated for a long time that all Officers be Engineering graduates at the minimum. Since vessels started being propelled mechanically, a lot of changes have happened. Navigation once a very tricky affair is much simpler for example. The complexity of engineering systems meanwhile has only gone up. I cannot imagine why should a Commander who knows more hydrogen is being produced than can be coped with will allow sail the sub. Unless he assumes that somehow the engineering folks will manage.. Anyways it's IMO>


Yes, times have changed and the IN has to have technically competent officers command ships.
I understand that is a mandatory requirement in the USN and Soviet (now Russian Navies) for e.g. Notwithstanding the neglect and incompetence of the MoD/ AKA, this is an issue on which IN needs to quickly take a call on.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Deans » 04 Mar 2014 10:08

matrimc wrote:Negi, aren't pilots (they do go to NDA, right?) engineers? (i.e. they get an engineering degree as well as equivalent training).


Negi is correct in his previous post. Only Naval officers in the Engineering or Electrical branch are engineers and they don't get to command warships.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby member_25400 » 04 Mar 2014 12:02

The inquiry has stated categorically that it was a cable fire and not malfunctioning batteries that was the cause.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 359386.cms

Also that the batteries had been taken from INS Sindhukesari (also undergoing refit) and had only undergone 108 recharge cycles as opposed to the standard of 200 life cycles (extensible somewhat). The issue of litigation related buying batteries from Exide India or an alternative vendor is a separate one.

AKA is guiltless on this specific fire; and the interview by Lt Manoranjan might perhaps be smoke.

The Indian Navy (and the yard) have work to do.

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Re: Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Postby Jaybhatt » 04 Mar 2014 12:38

barath_s wrote:The inquiry has stated categorically that it was a cable fire and not malfunctioning batteries that was the cause.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 359386.cms

Also that the batteries had been taken from INS Sindhukesari (also undergoing refit) and had only undergone 108 recharge cycles as opposed to the standard of 200 life cycles (extensible somewhat). The issue of litigation related buying batteries from Exide India or an alternative vendor is a separate one.

AKA is guiltless on this specific fire; and the interview by Lt Manoranjan might perhaps be smoke.

The Indian Navy (and the yard) have work to do.


This is absurd.

You are prepared to give a clean chit to AKA on the basis of an unsubstantiated press report that has not yet been officially released. And also ready to insult the memory of a dead warrior.

You are clearly a disinformation maestro.


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