Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

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Philip
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Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Philip » 15 May 2014 21:10

The huge backlog of pending decisions left as the legacy of AKA,will take a huge amount of time to sift through,given the fact that he has "red carded" so many acquisitions,stifling and sabotaging the desperately required modernisation of the armed forces operating weapon systems well past their lifespan which has led to a grave situation in its preparedness ,apability and numbers. A list of priorities and decisions which should be taken up on a war footing by the new dispensation could be listed out in the td. like the MMRCA deal,subs,arty,etc.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby member_23694 » 15 May 2014 21:55

- Rafale
- additional Mid-Air Refueler/C-17/C-130/Awacs ASAP
- F-INSAS [for entire army ASAP]
- Attack choppers in large number for ground support
- 6 additional off the shelf MKIsed submarine
- Assembly line for 6-9 Nuke sub
- Approve 70,000 tonne IAC - 2 with Nuke propulsion with capacity for around 45 Rafale M
- Invest in AURA UCAV - leverage French expertise from nEURON and start deploying around 2019
- Invest in something like the X-37B to be available by 2019
- Smart weapons for tactical battle field support
- Human space flight by 2020

member_20292
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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby member_20292 » 15 May 2014 21:58

ib4tl

Suraj
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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Suraj » 15 May 2014 23:31

1. Functional defence minister.

Ankit Desai
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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Ankit Desai » 16 May 2014 00:03

@Suraj I am not sure if you read it but yours above reply is kind of what Modi replied When asked what should be the new government's priorities, Modi said, 'To be in charge. Currently, no one is in charge.'

-Ankit

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Philip » 16 May 2014 01:55

Any guesses as to who the next Def. Min will be? Sushma is reportedly holding out for one for the 4 top posts,being resisted thus far.It all depends upon tomorrow's results.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Cain Marko » 16 May 2014 02:38

Subramaniam Swamy might be a good idea or possibly Finance. My take:

Home = Advani
Speaker = Swaraj or Rajnath
Finance = Sinha (I'd like to see Swamy here possibly)
Defense = Rajnath Singh or Swaraj
External Affairs = Jaitley

It'd be interesting if Modi can be Defmin and PM 2 in 1. He did run in two constituencies after all.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 May 2014 02:46

LKA - speaker
AJ - Finance
RS -Home
SS -- not sure this going to end well. She wants to be in on her own terms. And that is something Modi never accepts.
Swamy--loose cannon. Tuck him in where he's not from frequently

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 May 2014 02:50

Previous post was OT. Sorry.

Defence priority #1 is indigenization. Revamp DRDO/HAL. Get LCA MK2 and AMCA rolling. Get that stupid 155MM SPG out quickly in numbers. Get SOKO/Japan to help with shipyards to churn out destroyers, friagtes and Soryus.

You create 10K jobs right there.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby ShauryaT » 16 May 2014 03:19

I am looking for ONE decision - to resolve to spend 3% of GDP on Defense!

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby ramdas » 16 May 2014 03:45

Hope Def. Min. is not given to Sushma Swaraj. She has no capability for such a crucial ministry. Moreover, her past conduct has shown that she is an obstruction to the rise of nationalist forces, mainly because of the combination of a lack of merit and a huge ego. None of MoD, Home ministry, EAM and Finance should be given to such people. These ministries have to be professionally run keeping in mind the larger strategic interests of the country.

The ideal Raksha Mantri would be Gen. V.K. Singh, provided NaMo keeps a watch on him and makes sure that he works along with the incoming CoAS in the larger interests of the nation (putting aside whatever personal differences they may have with one another). It is high time we had a Raksha Mantri who has a deep understanding of military matters.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 May 2014 03:53

ShauryaT wrote:I am looking for ONE decision - to resolve to spend 3% of GDP on Defense!


We can keep it to 2% and see both the absolute amount of defense spend and the capability increase by a magnitude.

Why? improved economic management will increase GDP growth rate faster than the ability to induct weapons and personnel (and therefore costs).

Simple really. Economists who remember the old theorem:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 220AAYD6aO

tushar_m

Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby tushar_m » 16 May 2014 07:23

1. Increase spending to double of current for next 2 years(at-least)
2. Built more Arihants (4-5 pure SSBN/SSGN 6-7 pure SSN's)
3. Active deployment of Mobile/SLBM nuclear missiles (and tell the neighbours )
4. order more Tejas in current configuration which will later be upgraded to mk1+
5. Go on with AMCA(select interim engine possibly same as LCA)
6. order more arjun 500+ and instruct DRDO to develop & put Indian engine in the tank
7. Deployment of heavy assets in Andaman Nicobar islands (including su30mki+ p8i)
8. Increase training of Paramilitary ,CRPF & others for internal security (they are already well equipped or about to be)
9. Creation of Indian Marines to be deployed abroad only (Afghanistan, Vietnam , etc)
10. Built pure air defence Ships for navy
11. quickly order 4 mistral (or any other that fits the IN)
12. Put kaveri to some use (try to deploy it on LCA frame)
13. develop & deploy air defence sams with long range (in lines of s300/s400)
14. deploy ABM quickly
15. Test & provide Nirbhay to Army, Navy & Airforce
16. Develop a standard protection gear for forces.
17. Artillery lot & lots of it
18. Appointment of Chief of armed forces (to look after all , almost same power's as defence minister)


For all us Indian's : Bring a Strong Government led by a strong person who can take such strong decisions.(Hint :-Mr Modi)

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby P Chitkara » 16 May 2014 11:03

Long Term - Chart a indigenous development & induction roadmap spanning next 20 years for:
    Military Aero & Naval engines
    Artillery
    Tanks & APC
    Conventional & nuclear subs
    Aircraft carriers
    Missiles

Near Term - Give required danda for current acquisitions:
    Getting LCA Mk II online as planned
    Push AMCA and define a realistic plan
    Rafael
    Artillery
    Arjun

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Will » 16 May 2014 12:03

ramdas wrote:Hope Def. Min. is not given to Sushma Swaraj. She has no capability for such a crucial ministry. Moreover, her past conduct has shown that she is an obstruction to the rise of nationalist forces, mainly because of the combination of a lack of merit and a huge ego. None of MoD, Home ministry, EAM and Finance should be given to such people. These ministries have to be professionally run keeping in mind the larger strategic interests of the country.

The ideal Raksha Mantri would be Gen. V.K. Singh, provided NaMo keeps a watch on him and makes sure that he works along with the incoming CoAS in the larger interests of the nation (putting aside whatever personal differences they may have with one another). It is high time we had a Raksha Mantri who has a deep understanding of military matters.



I was going to say that. Not Sushma Swaraj please. VK Singh would be good but he's to junior in the political setup and he needs to keep his ego out for the larger interests of the nation. Pity Jaswant Singh was sidelined.

With Modi in, one thing that can be hoped for is a bigger role for private industry breaking the monopoly of DPSU's. I wouldn't be surprised if he splits HAL up and sells it off to reliance :D


Cain Marko wrote:Subramaniam Swamy might be a good idea or possibly Finance. My take:

Home = Advani
Speaker = Swaraj or Rajnath
Finance = Sinha (I'd like to see Swamy here possibly)
Defense = Rajnath Singh or Swaraj
External Affairs = Jaitley

It'd be interesting if Modi can be Defmin and PM 2 in 1. He did run in two constituencies after all.


Cain you definitely don't want to see Swamy anywhere around crucial ministries lol.
Last edited by Will on 16 May 2014 12:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Viv S » 16 May 2014 12:09

Cosmo_R wrote:LKA - speaker
AJ - Finance
RS -Home
SS -- not sure this going to end well. She wants to be in on her own terms. And that is something Modi never accepts.
Swamy--loose cannon. Tuck him in where he's not from frequently


Spot on.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Yagnasri » 16 May 2014 12:28

1. First make OFB set up to work. Make DRDO for effective. Involve ISRO also in defence related research at least in critical missile technology and metalergy.
2. No imported mall if it can be made in India - OFB or Private.
3. Huge increase in special forces training equipment etc along with a clear vision on their structure and use for achving stratigic objectives during war and "peace" times.
4. Order huge number of LCAs, Arjun and Artilory (even from Private players like Tata or Bhrat Forge)

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby shiv » 16 May 2014 20:26

Why India must put any overtures to Pakistan on hold : Former Chief of RAW
Given our troubled relationship with Pakistan, we need to keep our security apparatus in a state of alert with state-of-the-art equipment. All bilateral issues with Pakistan political, military, economic will simply have to go on the back-burner till Pakistan decides it wants to live as a good neighbour, says Vikram Sood.

Every change of government in New Delhi rekindles hope in the hearts of many that peace between India and Pakistan is about to break out. It is necessary to have a reality check on this. Successive Indian prime ministers have walked down this road, offering concessions to Pakistan, only to be disappointed.

Today Pakistan may play the injured innocent and claim that it is a victim of terrorism but the reality is that Pakistan is a victim of the policies of its leadership. Having invested so much in this policy of violent interference in its neighbourhood, having raised the rhetoric so high and despite having boxed above its weight all these years, the Pakistani military and intelligence establishment is unable to change the way it thinks much less make a U-turn in its policies towards India.

It is time we accept that Pakistan will not change its policies towards India and may even become worse as it Islamises and radicalises showing signs of becoming a Sharia state. Since Pakistan will not change its attitude it is time we also thought of different approaches. So far, gestures have been interpreted to mean appeasement by the Pakistan deep state and a vindication of their confrontationist policy. Pakistan's DNA will not allow a change of policy, only a change of tactics. It will retain its terror option under a nuclear umbrella that today consists of 200 nuclear weapons all aimed at India and based on a close military and nuclear relationship with China.

Our policy towards Pakistan has been based on three misconceptions. One, the assumption that the civilian politicians favour a normal relationship with India but it is the army alone that is the impediment. Facts speak otherwise. It was then prime minister Zulfiqar Bhutto who said that Pakistan would make the Islamic bomb even if Pakistanis had to eat grass. It was Zulfiqar who dabbled with assisting the Islamic Afghans who had taken shelter in Pakistan having been pushed out by the Mohammad Daud Khan regime from Afghanistan.
It was his daughter, Benazir, who launched the Kashmir jihad and later propped up the Taliban. It was Nawaz Sharif who supported both the Taliban and anti-India groups, most of them fostered in Punjab, his stronghold.

Mumbai 1993 and later Kargil happened during Sharif's terms in office. Likewise, the Mumbai attacks of November 2008 happened during Asif Ali Zardari's presidency. There would be no significant change in the threats faced by us from Pakistan regardless of whether there was a dictator in command or an ostensibly civilian rule.

Two, if we engage Pakistan in a sustained dialogue and grant some concessions, this will strengthen the hands of Pakistan’s politicians and weaken the military’s stranglehold which is disliked by the people of Pakistan. Not quite so. Pakistanis may not be too fond of their generals as presidents but the military is seen as the only institution which is keeping the country together. Its political, economic and military’s role in Pakistan cannot be undermined or contained by any civilian dispensation.

The third flaw in this argument is the misplaced belief that we can bring about changes in the manner in which Pakistanis want to be governed. We do not have the ability to bring about political changes in Pakistan. It would be dangerous to tread into pastures where others have ventured and failed. Pakistan’s political process is an internal matter between its people and leadership.

The time has come for India to move away from its Pakistan-centric policy orientation. India and Pakistan hardly trade with each other, Pakistan will not give India transit to Afghanistan even though it stands to earn money, there are few tourists to each others countries, Pakistan's hate India machinery is vocal and active, we never get to see each others media except for those who surf on the Internet and they no longer tolerate Indian journalists on their soil. It will not surrender its terror option as a force equaliser and India has no cure for Pakistan's paranoia.
A foreign policy that uses hope as an instrument of policy overlooking essential national interests is bound to fail. The most important requirement for India in the next decade or at any other time, is rapid economic progress in the widest definition of the term. This will be the best guarantor for our security in the long run.

Since we cannot progress in isolation we need to engage other countries. Notable among them would be China for multiple reasons, Japan and South Korea for economic interests and Russia and Israel for both security and economic interests. Maybe early high-profile exchange of visits would set the trend.

Our relationship with China and Pakistan means we are a landlocked country to our north and west. We need to take the maritime route to Iran and through Iran to Afghanistan and to Southeast Asia.Above all, the government needs to engage all our other immediate neighbours Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nepal and the Maldives in a sustained meaningful dialogue and provide economic assistance to these countries, in our own national interest and regain space that we might have lost in recent years.

Meanwhile, given our relationship with Pakistan, we need to keep our security apparatus in a state of alert with state-of-the-art equipment. All bilateral issues with Pakistan political, military, economic will simply have to go on the back-burner till Pakistan decides it wants to live as a good neighbour.

In our ordinary lives too it is not compulsory to have cordial relations with our neighbours; a nodding acquaintance and staying out each other's way is perfectly normal. So with nations.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby SaiK » 16 May 2014 20:40

viv s, home will be reconfigured into many split ministry.

on the defence priorities, more buck for kaveri++. revival of gtre, and reorganization/merge etc.

cancel mmrca, and get lca 2++

lighter weigth arjun 3. min order guarantee is 500 or 1000 tanks per version.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Supratik » 16 May 2014 23:16

Defence privatization should be a priority if we are to build a modern MIC - start with artillery.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby KJo » 17 May 2014 00:16

Swamy is a super intelligent man, but he is a loose cannon and a bit crazy. I am not sure that he can function well as Finance Minister. He is the type who should be kept close but not too close.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Philip » 17 May 2014 05:51

Gen.VKS ideal for MOS Def. Production.One can see him tickling up the DPSUs and Tatra! He would be of excellent support and advice to the Def. Min,a senior party loyalist. The NSA is another very crucial position.Former RAW/IB chiefs are being tipped for the post.One remembers the crucial role Brajesh Mishra played during ABV's time.But in this govt. perhaps the NSA will not wield so much of influence as there are a number of very competent ministers/individuals around. Some say RS Prasad for Def. Min of FM. DR.SS a good MOS/Dy/Min.

As said in a post above,the first fundamental is to hike the % of GDP for defence.Right now it may not be poss. for a straight hike to 3%,but at least 2.5%,to spur indigenisation and acquire urgent systems to replace obsolete eqpt.,spares,etc. for existing platforms.
Each service must list out its key priorities.A few suggestions:

IA:
Arty.All versions.
Tank upgrades and new ICVs.A new light tank.
Army Aviation Corps enhancement,with all attack helos,etc. coming under its control and command.
Drones.
New futuristic and proven eqpt. for the 21st century soldier.
Strategic missiles (ICBMs) and BM defence dev. accelerated.

IAF:
Tejas dev (MK-2) and enhanced production.
MMRCA decision.
FGFA movement.
AMCA R&D to be accelerated.
Basic trainer extra PC-7 acquisition/local manufacture by IAF .
IJT acquisition as HAL has failed to deliver on time.
AWACS/AEW aircraft production.
UCAV stealth bomber
Super-Sukhoi production.
MTA
LTA

IN:
SSBN and SSGN production accelerated.Sub launched ICBM.
Extra Akulas.
New interim AIP SS before 75I config. is finalised/dropped in favour of more N-subs.Could be built in pvg. yards.
Accelerated carrier building and amphib warships.
More upgraded MIG-29Ks to 35 std. Dev. and upgrades of naval air stations to ease burden of IAF for maritime security.
LRMP/Med. ASW MP aircraft.
ASW helo Sea King replacements
Hyper BMos.
New innovative surface warship designs.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby nash » 17 May 2014 08:32

1. No "no first use" policy.
2. Either divestment or efficient restructuring of DPSU, esp HAL and ports.
3. Required privatization of OFB and proper FDI in Defence sector to increase manufacturing.
4. Remove all the bureaucratic bottle neck or red tape hurdle in the way of DRDO and ISRO.
5. Smooth, transparent, clean and effective process to all the export and import of defence equipment from bullet to warship.

I think all of these can be done in 6 months to 2 year window.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Philip » 18 May 2014 14:21

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... -for-modi/
Indian Armed Forces: Challenges for Modi
By Col Danvir Singh
Issue Net Edition | Date : 16 May , 2014

MODI, MOODI, MOOODI, is not one of the chants by the crowd which we all have heard in India during past six to eight months during the course of political campaign of 2014. This euphoria was not just like that; it was actually based on hope of Indians out of sheer desperation and hopelessness prevailing all across the country at large. Armed forces also, amongst all others have pinned a lot of hope from this change that the country is witnessing this summer of 2014.

The corruption scams related to VIP helicopters, Adarsh and Sukhna are some of the glaring example of the rot prevailing. It raises a question mark over the probity and credibility of those in high offices.

Over a past few months I have been trying to understand the expectations of our military from Narendra Modi. In my quest I would have spoken to a large number of those in active service and also those who have long hung their boots. The wish list is definitely long and these expectations vary from a Soldier to a General. The Soldiers and their young officers would prefer better living conditions, improved infrastructure in border areas and off course a more promising pay scale. These aspirations may find voices of concerns with the middle and senior level officers as well, but there is a difference.

While the present lot of the generals would be keen on early implementation of One-Rank-One-Pension. However the most imaginative and objective lot is that of Colonels and Brigadiers and there equivalent in Air Force and the Navy. It is this lot who will largely be holding the fort and carry the burden of defense of India upon its shoulders at the turn of the next general election in the year 2019. They would by then be the two star and three star general officers, answerable to the men they command and the nation they swear by.

What has emerged out of my series of interactions are five major things amongst many that challenge the credibility of our armed forces. These are challenges related to LEADERSHIP, MORALE, ACCOUNTABLITY, INTEGRATION and CAPABLITY.

There is a big question mark over our leadership in the armed forces as it raises doubt over the ways this senior leadership is selected. The corruption scams related to VIP helicopters, Adarsh and Sukhna are some of the glaring example of the rot prevailing. It raises a question mark over the probity and credibility of those in high offices. Amidst all this, what misses the glare is the fact that a trend has been established over a few years of repudiating, evading and shirking the responsibility by our top military leadership. Is it not ironic that the General Bikram passed the buck onto the field commanders when the reporters asked him of the Army’s response to the infamous beheading of our soldiers on the LoC last year?

A trend started by General Bikram Singh as the Eastern army commander followed by Lt General Dalbir Suhag who replaced him as the army commander in Calcutta will further convince you to question the selection process. Within the army it is a well known fact these two gentlemen have avoided taking decisions just to ensure non culpability, just in case the decision went wrong. This philosophy of work practiced by Bikram Singh as the Chief has demoralized the staff and commanders at all levels having a cascading effect. Lt General Dalbir Suhag as the army commander Eastern Command followed the footsteps of his predecessor. The growing worry is that the army may well have to suffer from this decision making paralysis for next two and a half years more.

For Modi to shake up the system so well entrenched may not be easy. Requirement from military leaders having decisiveness, moral courage, high probity are some of the attributes desperately required.

Beyond doubt this model of inaction has damaged the operational and administrative functioning of the army. Indecisiveness arising out of fear of committing a wrong is something dangerous. The military commanders have to take risks, over cautious approach leads to general demoralization of the force which is clearly evident across the board. The commanders these days at different levels avoid shouldering responsibility, an alarming trend. This model unfortunately is becoming the preferred template to rise in career without committing errors. It is high time the process of selecting chiefs just by seniority following the line of succession is done away with and replaced by a deeper selection process. It is time when character is placed higher than competence. For Modi to shake up the system so well entrenched may not be easy. Requirement from military leaders having decisiveness, moral courage, high probity are some of the attributes desperately required.

It may be true that the blame of all the ills in the armed forces cannot be levelled against the leadership alone. But the unfortunate incidents like the ones seen at Leh in 226 Field Artillery regiment in May 2012 and later at Meerut in 10 SIKH LI in Oct 2013 are a matter of grave concern and the leadership cannot be exonerated. In both these cases the situation got so much out of hand that the Jawans ended up beating up their own officer, something never heard before. Such incidents seriously lower the morale. The incidents of suicide and fratricide are also not uncommon any more, which can be seen as an index of low morale.

A brigade commander in the North East in 2012, was caught taking bribe from his commanding officers to write a favorable Annual Confidential Report. An incident widely reported on the leading television channels shook the basic faith of officers and men in the system. The beheading and killing of our soldiers on the LoC and numerous other occurrences of similar in nature, badly affects the self-confidence of our troops. These incidents may have been brushed aside as trivial when compared to the large size of our army but then they definitely reflect the down side in the organization. Such incidents adversely affect the morale of the leaders and the led alike. Raising the morale of the third largest armed forces should be the top most priority of our generals and political masters alike.

The recent case of resignation by the Naval Chief Admiral DK Joshi over continuous mishaps within the Navy may be a rare but a classic example in the highest traditions of the armed forces of taking the moral responsibility. Later on the government superseded Vice Admiral Sinha over RK Dhawon as the next Navy Chief thus fixing the responsibility of mishaps on correct shoulders. Admiral Sinha who was the Western Fleet Commander all the while when the series of mishaps took place, was rightly overlooked for the top job is again one of the rare case of fixing accountability at highest levels.

…the greatest challenge would be in ensuring strong and capable armed forces. This can only happen by rapid modernization.

But then the story does not end here. What about those in the ministry of defense who are responsible for delay in procurement of equipment, timely up-gradations and modernization despite repeated requests from various service chiefs? These delays have resulted in mishaps due to malfunctioning and failure of the equipment. The famous case in point is that of the survivor of a MIG-21 crash, Wing Commander Sanjeet Kalia, who had to take the legal course for seeking justice. The honorable High Court of Delhi has apportioned the blame of this accident resulting in debilitating injuries to the pilot upon manufacturing defects and poor workmanship by the HAL. So what about the accountability of Defense Secretary Production and the head of the HAL? Somebody has to be questioned for the loss to the exchequer. Someone has to answer for the loss of life and limbs of many a great warrior of our country lost due to the apathy and neglect of those responsible.

Shri Narendra Modi has a herculean task ahead to identify the dead wood. He has to ensure simple and effective procedures are put in place so that complete apparatus work like a well-oiled machine. A system is desirable where those responsible are equally answerable.

Today no doubt the Army Headquarter is referred as the Integrated Head Quarter of MOD (Army) and likewise for the Navy and the Air Force. Unfortunately this is nothing but mere semantics with no worthwhile integration. Implementation of Kargil Review committee report in the right earnest and appointment of a Chief of Defense Staff backed by necessary parliamentary sanction would be a true integration. In doing so the aspects related to accountability, modernization will automatically get streamlined. However the most important aspect accrued out of this transformation would be the formalization of a strategic thought process, derived out of synergy between defence and other ministries. A measure desperately needed by a country which is standing at the thresh hold of a predicted Asian age of twenty first century. This can very much be facilitated by this integration.

Integration of the service head quarters with the Ministry of Defence (MOD) should be on a very high priority agenda for the Modi’s government. Since our independence the service headquarter have been adjunct to the MOD merely out of the fears of Jawahar Lal Nehru originating out of a much hallucinated military coup. Though every effort recently during the tenure of General VK Singh was made by the then Defense Secretary Shashank Sharma to revive such fears by jointly concocting a false story of a coup along with a leading national daily. All this was done with an aim to discredit the Army Chief and in turn the Army. The immediate fall out would have been mistrust and further isolation of the armed forces. It would have provided a reason enough to suppress the legitimate desire of the Armed Forces for proper integration with the MOD. Will the safeguards to prevent a repeat of such an exercise by the bureaucrats put in place? How will the civil military relation build on trust and faith needs to be seen in the days to come?

Modi intends good relations with our belligerent neighbours and in his own words, “by looking straight into their eyes”. This can happen only if the country is strong.

Finally the greatest challenge would be in ensuring strong and capable armed forces. This can only happen by rapid modernization. It is high time the management of our defenses on our borders is technology driven rather being based on the antiquated troop intensive philosophy which is of attrition in nature. Today the fighter strength in the Air Force has alarmingly depleted. The submarine arm of the Navy virtually left with no punch. The Army has night blind armoured with limited ammunition just enough to fight one and a half days of intense battle. Air Defense is defunct and artillery left with obsolete guns and systems. Infantry man is starved of basic equipment and seriously looks forward to a good rifle at least to match up with the enemy on the borders. The list is very long.

Shri Narendra Modi intends good relations with our belligerent neighbours and in his own words, “by looking straight into their eyes”. This can happen only if the country is strong. Military is the manifestation of that strength that comes out of strong economy and sound leadership. It is high time the equipment starved armed forces do not suffer from the neglect of bureaucrats and lack of commitment and accountability of the DRDO and the Defense PSUs. India beyond doubt deserves a strong armed force an expectation of every patriotic Indian.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby rgosain » 18 May 2014 23:21

The scuttling of the the Indian navy sub fleet by the previous governement through inaction, neglect and paralysis is up there with the destruction of the French and Italian fleets during ww2, and there must be an inquiry into the activities of the previous ministers and civil servants. The key priority of reconstituting the Kilo fleet with an immediate purchase from Russia will take time to materialise but will allow for the the development of new tactics. In the medium term, increasing the ssn fleet will become a greater priority and plans for their procurement need to be done within the next 100 days.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby brar_w » 19 May 2014 08:25

I want:

* A complete analysis on doubling or tripling the LCA production line
* A cost vs capability analysis (a transparent one perhaps) on the rafale vs a mix of LCA and Mki's
* A cost vs capability analysis of the entire rafale deal vs in house production of super MKI's
* MOD investments and stakes in foreign defense companies. If not direct stake, MOD backed stake by Indian corporations in foreign defense companies (tier 1, 2 or 3)
* Re-evaluation of the FGFA and a transparent analysis of the FGFA costs compared to direct procurement of 150 or so T-50's built in Russia as per RuAF standard
* A doubling or tripling of R&D budget, especially to organizations such as DRDO


For a start !

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Philip » 19 May 2014 08:43

Yes,a fundamental review of all issues ,the country's "grand strategy",perspective plans,current situation of each service,critical pending decisions has to first take place before major decisions are made.Urgent critical requirements like batteries for subs,etc. should be fast tracked on a war footing.The review should also evaluate and determine a realistic roadmap for raising the indigenous content of def. systems and eqpt. from 30% to 70% in stages and timefames that are achievable. The working of DPSUs,tightening up the screws,knocking heads together,sorely needed.If Gen.VKS as is being hinted at,will be the next MOS Def. Production,that would be a great start.Finally,the services should be integrated with the MOD,so that the smooth functioning of the Def. establishment is achieved,with the input of the armed forces in the nation's foreign and defence policy an absolute requirement.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby brar_w » 19 May 2014 09:13

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Last edited by brar_w on 19 May 2014 09:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby brar_w » 19 May 2014 09:14

I hope Modi and whomsoever he chooses as raksha mantri do not shy away from a near term "capability shortfall" when addressing long term strategic acquisition, development and strategy for the armed forces. I'd rather take a capability gap in the near term, then be forced with a broken strategy for decades to come. Lets be prepared to take an initial hit for the long term interest of the nation. Hard choices have to made and have been done so by all great military powers around the world.

While having VKS as the MOS for defense is a fairly good idea, i see rajnath singh as a waste for the Defense minister position. His expertise is in political management, and party leadership. Defense ministry should go to a technocrat, who knows how to streamline the "babu" culture within the ministry and manage the services at the technical level. Perhaps rajnath singh would be better as Home minister or something. Its high time that the defense ministry be headed by leaders that are as quallified to lead the ministry as the finance, law or external affairs ministers are.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby nash » 19 May 2014 14:20

not sure it will be relevant to this thread but here is the link

http://www.narendramodi.in/form/

where people can register and might get chance to share their thoughts.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby darshhan » 19 May 2014 15:48

brar_w wrote:I want:

* A complete analysis on doubling or tripling the LCA production line
* A cost vs capability analysis (a transparent one perhaps) on the rafale vs a mix of LCA and Mki's
* A cost vs capability analysis of the entire rafale deal vs in house production of super MKI's
* MOD investments and stakes in foreign defense companies. If not direct stake, MOD backed stake by Indian corporations in foreign defense companies (tier 1, 2 or 3)
* Re-evaluation of the FGFA and a transparent analysis of the FGFA costs compared to direct procurement of 150 or so T-50's built in Russia as per RuAF standard
* A doubling or tripling of R&D budget, especially to organizations such as DRDO


For a start !


Brar_w ji, Very good post. To me Rafale deal has always been suspect. As you said a thorough analysis will introduce much needed clarity whether it is actually needed or if better/equivalent substitutes can be be procured at far lesser cost.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby brar_w » 19 May 2014 16:24

darshhan wrote:
brar_w wrote:I want:



Brar_w ji, Very good post. To me Rafale deal has always been suspect. As you said a thorough analysis will introduce much needed clarity whether it is actually needed or if better/equivalent substitutes can be be procured at far lesser cost.


I think the rafale is a great multi role fighter. However, it comes in at huge costs. If the capability can be made up by extending production of the MKI production line, that is already set up and by extending the affordable LCA then that is something we must look at. Even if we can manage to get 80% of the capability through this mix, it's far simpler than inducting a brand new type into the fleet and giving HAL yet another foreign program to produce. That money can be better spent elsewhere.

I also dislike the "customization" of every weapons system we buy from abroad. Perhaps it does deliver the best system but it costs a ton and takes time with all the R&D and TOT at hand. For the FGFA, lets just buy the T-50 off the shelf (even then it will cost quite a bit) and work on our own 5th gen program. Customization is best left to an indigenous program of which we have 100% control and foreign platforms should be procured through the cheapest possible route.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby Philip » 19 May 2014 16:45

Defence will have to be given to one of the core of the BJP leadership.If the individual concerned has a technoocrat backgroundmthe better would it be,but it may not be so. I agree Rajnath would be wasted in Defence. There is even speculation that he may remain as party pres.That leaves only a handful who could be tasked for the top posts and if Sushma is given one of the 4 top posts,External Affairs would be the best chair for her,with a strong experienced former MEA Sec. as Dy.FM. Therefore,if Gen. VKS is given the MOS Def prod. job,he would double as adviser to whoever is given the job of DM,making his task easier.It would also give the armed forces an inside line to the DM and PM (which they've been asking for,for a long time now) ,which during Mrs.Gandhi's time existed.The key reason why we won in '71,taking Sam's advice to delay the campaign after due preparation and planning.

Unfortunately,the amount of obsolescence in the armed forces in all 3 services is scandalous and immediate firefighting needs to be done.No new arty for 26 yrs! Subs falling apart.MIG-21s in their hundreds beyond their retirement dates,and local indigenous capability to replace them has been very patchy,with both quality and production rates an issue. We cannot avoid a certain amount of import content to tide over the crisis.In fact even if decisions are taken within the next 3 months,it will take 2-3 years before even these urgent interim replacements will become available.Setting up/revamping the DPSUs so that better quality and increased production requires both human resources augmentation as well as infrastructure/modernisation work.The next 3-6 months are going to be crucial,when the tough decisions are taken.

PS:Adding to what Brar has said,reports say that by 2019 full local production (from local materials) will have been accomplished for the MKI line. Apparently there is a lot of wastage in titanium at the moment,producing components locally from ti raw material.The cost of a locally made MKI is now $70-75M,up from $30M at the inception. If one examines the changing philosophy in the USN as expressed by Adm.Greenert its CNO,"platform centric" should give way to "payload centric" options.Using as he says more "bomb trucks" in the era of LR PGMs. More upgraded MIG-29s/35s (60+) may be more affordable (around $35-40M-IN's 29Ks came in at $32M each) and practical than extra MKIs over the 270+ figure in the pipeline.The engines are already being manufactured locally.This may also make funds available for a reduced but reasonable qty. of Rafales.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby rakall » 19 May 2014 17:07

Wish lists (especially imports) can get unduly long.. there are some simpler issuers to take care of..

1. Road & Infrastructure for efficient troop movement, supply lines in NorthEast. Build Indian roads in the area under Indian control in Arunachal before the Chinese build them

2. A special counter-intelligence cell for security of scientists (I am referring to the mysterious suicides of BARC scientists in TN & cases of scientists attached to Arihant project winding up dead on railway tracks)

3. Nuke Sub facility in Andaman. Larger Naval presence in Andaman. Enhanced presence with Su30MKI

3. Indigenisation where ever possible (will elaborate specifics later)

4. More support to existing indigenous projects (Arjun, Tejas, Nag, HTT-40, LUH, 155mm howitzers, AESA radar, AEW&C + AWACS, the entire spectrum)
Last edited by rakall on 19 May 2014 19:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby pragnya » 19 May 2014 19:07

i support, as been noted by a few here, Arun Shourie as the new defence mininster. with his vast and deep knowledge (of practically anything) and more so of finding solutions is his hall mark - systemic or otherwise. he would be the right person for the job. Gen. VKS (having been wronged) had a every right to go to the court etc but has not done himself proud by washing dirty linen in public - not a good sign for a public leader. he may be suited for something back room - militory/intelligence/coordination advisory role to the PM.

i support brar's and rakall's list of to do's.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby brar_w » 19 May 2014 19:21

@ Phillip, CNO of the US Navy's position is based on years and billions of investments in tactical data links, SATCOM and and things like NIFC-CA where the constant development of sensors and weapons have occurred even before the technology is ready and operational. The SM6 for example has a range far greater than the horizon radar on board the ships. Its mission was always to get targetting from OTH sensors, such as E-2D, F-35C, F-18E/F or aerial vehicles (blimps) for long range OTH shots.

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby SanjayC » 19 May 2014 19:25

rakall wrote:3. Indigestion where ever possible (will elaborate specifics later)


:rotfl:

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby rakall » 19 May 2014 19:44

SanjayC wrote:
rakall wrote:3. Indigestion where ever possible (will elaborate specifics later)


:rotfl:


What's so funny? Which part is funny - the first part or second part..

Sorry.. been busy a lot.. Twitter crusade against the media..

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby rakall » 19 May 2014 19:56

pragnya wrote:i support, as been noted by a few here, Arun Shourie as the new defence mininster. with his vast and deep knowledge (of practically anything) and more so of finding solutions is his hall mark - systemic or otherwise. he would be the right person for the job. Gen. VKS (having been wronged) had a every right to go to the court etc but has not done himself proud by washing dirty linen in public - not a good sign for a public leader. he may be suited for something back room - militory/intelligence/coordination advisory role to the PM.

i support brar's and rakall's list of to do's.


Arun Shourie's skills & talent can much better me utilized in Finance. I feel, between the 2 Arun's (Jaitley & Shourie) they will get Finance & EA.

I hope & wish, between Rajnath & NaMo they pick Home & Defence.

Other suitable candidates (my personal wish only) for defence are : MM Joshi & M Parrikar.
Joshi might sound a screwball option - but, he is an ultra nationalist.. and that should make him push for more indigenization.. My overwhelming expectation from the next RM is "More Indegenization, Less Imports".

However, reg strategic decisions - the RM needs very good internal & intel security advisors.. The ultimate Kao boy Late. Shri. B.Raman had made a prescient suggestion 1 year ago - a few days before he passed away.

"NSA under NaMo--Shyam Saran; ISA--Prakash Singh;National int Adviser---Doval
3:38 AM - 28 May 2013"

Look at the date.. and the PM choice. RIP B.Raman

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Re: Priority Defence decisions for the new govt.

Postby NRao » 19 May 2014 20:26

"NSA under NaMo--Shyam Saran; ISA--Prakash Singh;National int Adviser---Doval
3:38 AM - 28 May 2013"

Look at the date.. and the PM choice. RIP B.Raman


Former Intelligence Bureau chief Ajit Doval meets Narendra Modi

Former Director of Intelligence Bureau Ajit Doval on Monday met Prime Minister-elect Narendra Modi and gave him a brief on security challenges facing the country.

69-year-old Doval, who was the first police officer to be awarded 'Kirti Chakra', gave an insight to Modi about the threats that exist within and from outside the country.

"I was called for a meeting and I briefed him (Modi)," Doval said withouting elaborating further.

Doval, who runs an NGO 'Vivekananda International Foundation' providing a platform for dialouge and conflict resolutions, is among the front-runners for the post of National Security Advisor in the new BJP-led government at the centre.

A 1968-batch IPS officer, Doval, known as the best 'operational brain' within the intelligence circles, was India's main negotiator with the hijackers of Indian Airlines plane IC-814 which was taken to Kandahar in 1999.

He had conducted anti-insurgency operations in Mizoram and finally brought insurgent leader Laldenga to the negotiating table by winning over six of his seven commanders.

Doval had also successfully planned the rescue of a Romanian diplomat Liviu Radu who was abducted by Khalistan Liberation Front in 1991.


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