Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby sivab » 12 Jun 2014 06:20

^^^Gen VKS is being accused of illegality in public. He has a right to defend himself in public. He cannot defend himself in SC when he is not party to proceeding. This was an attempt by corrupt arms lobby and congi babooze to throw mud on him. If BJP thought that he had committed illegality they should not have given a ticket. He won with a huge mandate next only to NM in Guj and it wasn't due to just NM wave.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby member_28539 » 12 Jun 2014 09:57

From what I have heard of the incident in NE which Lt. Gen. Suhag is being blamed for I can sum it up as follows:

SFF units collaboratig with RAW deployed in NE were on a mission to nab terroists running ams racket through myanmar border..primarily Chindu weapons of all kinds Granades, guns, pistols etc., these were being routed to different parts of the country (heard of stories like Ak-47 being used by secular community during muzzafarnagar riots near jolly canal, maoists getting radio sets & granades etc.)

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...

In short...too many feathers got ruffled politically & financially...pressure mounted on Lt. Gen. Suhag, he refused to budge..lines of operations were crossed but somebody (Lt. Gen Suhag) had to put up a face to his jawans unlike the shameful behaviour which we saw on LoC a year back with practically response coming in only after the whole nation was enraged...

My Opinion: the choice here is between two rights here...staff college or not Lt. Gen. Suhag is no kaccha khiladi...VKS saab is upright & now a cabinate minister with a reputation to live up to & most advisable should not continue his old habit of washing dirty linen in public....best possible solution is to keep them both as apart as possible & stay mum about it...a broken clock also shows correct time once in a day..I expect the same case with UPA-II's appoinment of Lt. Gen. Suhag...

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 12 Jun 2014 10:07

From what I have heard of the incident in NE which Lt. Gen. Suhag is being blamed for I can sum it up as follows:

SFF units collaboratig with RAW deployed in NE were on a mission to nab terroists running ams racket through myanmar border..primarily Chindu weapons of all kinds Granades, guns, pistols etc., these were being routed to different parts of the country (heard of stories like Ak-47 being used by secular community during muzzafarnagar riots near jolly canal, maoists getting radio sets & granades etc.)

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...

In short...too many feathers got ruffled politically & financially...pressure mounted on Lt. Gen. Suhag, he refused to budge..lines of operations were crossed but somebody (Lt. Gen Suhag) had to put up a face to his jawans unlike the shameful behaviour which we saw on LoC a year back with practically response coming in only after the whole nation was enraged..



Whoaa. is this public domain knowledge.? If it is could you please point me to the article. Becasue all i have read so far is that men under his command harassed and looted innocent people and he refused to prosecute them.

Secondly In 2012 the CBI investigated allegations of Corruption within the SFF when Suhag was the CO. Of course the allegations were made by an MP..but anybody have any idea of how this issue was resolved?

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-cb ... es-1668920

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby sum » 12 Jun 2014 10:08

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...

But would Gen Singh know all this and would have taken a lenient stance since he backed his men to the hilt in TSD related ops ( even inside Myanmar) where such dirty games were a daily matter but Gen Singh ensured his protective hand on those folk?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 12 Jun 2014 10:10

Btw to through another Spanner in the works

Making matters curiouser is the fact that Gen. (Rtd) V.K Singh's daughter is married to Lt General Ashok Singh's son.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2611589/BJP-battles-new-Army-chief-Saffron-brigade-block-Dalbir-Singh-Suhags-appointment-wade-forces-succession-row.html

The old adage used by the Ex service elders in my family comes to mind: The Last Soldier Office is a Colonel. After that He becomes a politician.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 12 Jun 2014 10:15

Joshi_Sa wrote: ...

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...


The reason discipline and absolute obedience to the commander is so paramount in the military is because the "natural" thing shouldn't happen. It is military, not the militia. If the unit disobeyed the commander, it is awful and needs to be punished. If the unit obeyed the commander believing it to be a lawful order, the commander must be punished. In either case, if nothing else is done, then someone in the chain of command has to own up. If nobody is punished, then there is a cover-up.

I feel for VKS because the affidavit in court put him in an impossible situation - he can't be a minister who is being accused of illegal act by the same Govt he is part of.

That said, the retaliatory tweet lost him much of the support and made him look like a loose-cannon. If he had held his silence and force the MoD to apologize or threatened to quit, he'd have come of this far better. Now he is fighting a defensive battle with no allies and on a different issue altogether. That was politically immature.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby negi » 12 Jun 2014 10:44

Chief appointments are by and large political in nature; whenever the line of succession has been altered on whatever pretext it was nothing but politics this has been happening from ages right from times of Adm Nadkarni, Adm Ramdas, Adm Bhagwat (latter two became Admirals because Admiral Tahiliani extended Vice Adm Nadkarni's tenure which Raga ka Pitashri Rajiv Gandhi approved ) and now Adm Dhowan all became admiral due to the alteration in the line of natural succession by the GOI. I mean why look at the past Western CNC was Vice Admiral Sinha an aviator with as good a resume as any of the Naval chiefs from the past , no allegations of corruption and yet got sidelined because AK Antony had better ideas .

This rot started in the IA with following

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/thscrip/p ... prd=fline&

In November, news broke that the Commission's Chairman, Tarlochan Singh, was using his office to lobby for the appointment of Lieutenant-General J.J. Singh as the next Chief of the Army Staff (CoAS). In a letter to Defence Minister George Fernandes, Tarlochan Singh made clear the reasons for his support of General J.J. Singh. "It is," he wrote, "the first time in 50 years that a Sikh officer has a chance to be the Army Chief." Currently posted as the head of the Shimla-based Army Training Command, or ARTRAC, Singh is currently second in line in the top-job sweepstakes behind Lt. Gen. S.S. `Shammy' Mehta, the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Western Command.

That is why MMS's stooge Prithviraj Chavan said

"Even the PM is Sikh and there was tremendous pressure on PM Manmohan Singh before announcing Gen Singh's name as the Army Chief. The announcement was made four months prior to the appointment and we could not reject him (Gen Singh) just because he was Sikh,"

Actually the pressure came for appointment of JJ Singh and not the other way round. IA line of succession got broken there itself what follows with VK SIngh, Bikram Singh and now Dalbir Suhag controversy actually started with Gen J J Singh's appointment.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby member_28539 » 12 Jun 2014 11:34

rkhanna wrote:
From what I have heard of the incident in NE which Lt. Gen. Suhag is being blamed for I can sum it up as follows:

SFF units collaboratig with RAW deployed in NE were on a mission to nab terroists running ams racket through myanmar border..primarily Chindu weapons of all kinds Granades, guns, pistols etc., these were being routed to different parts of the country (heard of stories like Ak-47 being used by secular community during muzzafarnagar riots near jolly canal, maoists getting radio sets & granades etc.)

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...

In short...too many feathers got ruffled politically & financially...pressure mounted on Lt. Gen. Suhag, he refused to budge..lines of operations were crossed but somebody (Lt. Gen Suhag) had to put up a face to his jawans unlike the shameful behaviour which we saw on LoC a year back with practically response coming in only after the whole nation was enraged..



Whoaa. is this public domain knowledge.? If it is could you please point me to the article. Becasue all i have read so far is that men under his command harassed and looted innocent people and he refused to prosecute them.

Secondly In 2012 the CBI investigated allegations of Corruption within the SFF when Suhag was the CO. Of course the allegations were made by an MP..but anybody have any idea of how this issue was resolved?

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-cb ... es-1668920



@Khanna Sir: no the info is not in public...heard it from the horses mouth (one of the officers (SF Guy) now posted in Pune on Admin duties as punishment by Lt. Gen. Suhag himself)...sorry can't take names here..but wanted the incident cleared out as a lot of mud-slinging happening all around..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby member_28539 » 12 Jun 2014 11:38

sum wrote:
An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...

But would Gen Singh know all this and would have taken a lenient stance since he backed his men to the hilt in TSD related ops ( even inside Myanmar) where such dirty games were a daily matter but Gen Singh ensured his protective hand on those folk?


@sum: Sir! the General Saab knew of it...but the political heat on this was just too strong...Lt. Gen. Suhag insured that the boys are punished for excessivities but like a considerate parent and using only his channel of command for this and not letting in others to come in which was taken as offence by a lot of people in top brass..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby member_28539 » 12 Jun 2014 11:44

srin wrote:
Joshi_Sa wrote: ...

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...


The reason discipline and absolute obedience to the commander is so paramount in the military is because the "natural" thing shouldn't happen. It is military, not the militia. If the unit disobeyed the commander, it is awful and needs to be punished. If the unit obeyed the commander believing it to be a lawful order, the commander must be punished. In either case, if nothing else is done, then someone in the chain of command has to own up. If nobody is punished, then there is a cover-up.
I feel for VKS because the affidavit in court put him in an impossible situation - he can't be a minister who is being accused of illegal act by the same Govt he is part of.

That said, the retaliatory tweet lost him much of the support and made him look like a loose-cannon. If he had held his silence and force the MoD to apologize or threatened to quit, he'd have come of this far better. Now he is fighting a defensive battle with no allies and on a different issue altogether. That was politically immature.


@srin Sir: I agree sir..but we keyboard warriors can only judge from our ends..like a scenario posted in this thread earlier of Siachen Glacier & the officer had to leave his jawan to die...it is very difficult to control as the circumstances are not under the ambit of control..the onus here is on the chioce of not good or bad but what is RIGHT...I can only imagine being stuck in a village of hostile people ready to erupt at a moments notice...everyone earns thru these cartels in small villages in NE...they obvoiusly weren't welcomed there & things tend to get bad when these things happen...

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nandakumar » 12 Jun 2014 13:59

Here is the link to the ruling of the Armed Forces Tribunal in the dispute between Lt General Ravi Dastane and the Govt. of India over his being passed over for promotion the Army Command. The then Lt General, Dalbir Singh Suhag was appointed as the head of Eastern Command which prompted Lt Gen Ravi Dastane to go in appeal. Though the Tribunal gave a verdict in favour of the Government, it allowed Dastane to prefer an appeal in the Supreme Court which is now pending.
http://www.aftdelhi.nic.in/index.php?op ... &Itemid=29

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 12 Jun 2014 15:53

Delete..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 12 Jun 2014 16:17

rkhanna wrote:
@Khanna Sir: no the info is not in public...heard it from the horses mouth (one of the officers (SF Guy) now posted in Pune on Admin duties as punishment by Lt. Gen. Suhag himself)...sorry can't take names here..but wanted the incident cleared out as a lot of mud-slinging happening all around..


Interesting..Thanks!...If you have the liberty to answer. the officer in Question is SF or "SF Type" i was under the impression Suhag was CO of the SFF and then headed an Intelligence and Surveillance Unit. Or does this unit come under the Para SF umbrella.


Suhag was the Inspector General of SFF - a stupid designation considering that an army man raised it and heads it from inception.

SFF has 10-odd battalions comprising of Tibetans and Indians mix - and most of Indians come from the Gorkhas (which I think stems from similarity in physical features). These battalions have IA officer as CO along with other officers on deputation. You'll find Para (SF) guys commanding these battalions as do officers from infantry regiments. I am willing to be corrected here but it seems Gorkha officers dominate. I would not be surprised if at some point in time, Suhag commanded a SFF battalion but records in public domain do not say so.

(Anecdote 1 - As per Nitin Gokhale's book on Siachen, the expedition commander for first military deployment on Siachen was a SF officer who was commanding a Vikas Battalion in the eastern Ladakh Sector. The name escapes me at present.)

(Anecdote 2 - SFF is termed as Vikas Regiment but I've also seen designation as 1 Archer and 2 Archer - I don't know the history/reason behind the 'Archer' nomenclature but Vikas Regiment seems to be in place for quite some time. Were mentioned as such in Kargil operations as well. And IIRC, 2 battalions remain deployed for Siachen and eastern Ladakh throughout.)

Special Group (SG) - ostensibly under SFF - is THE crack SF unit which works closely with 'agencies'. It is separate from Para (SF) whose members form substantial part of this force - but only after clearing their 'probation'.

The intelligence unit under question is 3 Corps Intelligence Unit whose operation was questioned and whose member was charged with stealing a mobile phone during the raid. Suhag was 3 Corps Commander at the time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming the story about SFF action shared here is true (and we've no means to confirm either ways) - it seems that the Jorhat raid is cover to reprimand Suhag for something more drastic under his watch which could not be shared in public domain for obvious reasons.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 12 Jun 2014 17:29

^^ thanks a bunch.. very insightful.

Sorry but last question. I though SFF was removed from MoD and put under the Home Ministry due to the Chinese whining a decade or so ago. Is that still the case? Which would make the IG rank then make sense.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Rahul M » 12 Jun 2014 17:58

Rohit, a small query. I know that monpas from tawang also join sff in a big way. Any idea if they join tibetan or indian units ?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby sum » 12 Jun 2014 18:50

From this article:
Return of the Superspy
India’s intelligence operatives working thousands of miles away from home running covert operations that no other Indian agency—perhaps with the exception of the Technical Services Division dismantled by General Bikram Singh— had dared to attempt in the past.

Hope such armed forces units ( even if in different names) are up and running by now

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rakall » 12 Jun 2014 19:16

rohitvats wrote:
Baikul wrote:
In my opinion, you are misreading VK Singh's tweet. By a factor of 180 degrees.


VKS charge is against Suhag who as Corps Commander of 3 Corps has the Intelligence Unit reporting directly to him. That is what he means by Suhag being head of organization.


Rohitvats - could you please shed light on the attributed motives to VKS that he is clearing line of succession for Gen.AKSingh. IIRC, Devasahayam's article says that this can't be true bcoz he is "disqualified"

Whats your take on this?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Kakkaji » 12 Jun 2014 21:25

rakall wrote:
Rohitvats - could you please shed light on the attributed motives to VKS that he is clearing line of succession for Gen.AKSingh. IIRC, Devasahayam's article says that this can't be true bcoz he is "disqualified"

Whats your take on this?


A few days earlier, VKS had clarified ina tweet that he was not batting for Ashok Singh, his relative, but that he preferred Gen. Ravi Dastane to be the next COAS.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 12 Jun 2014 21:26

Rahul M wrote:Rohit, a small query. I know that monpas from tawang also join sff in a big way. Any idea if they join tibetan or indian units ?


Not something I'm aware of. So can't comment.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 12 Jun 2014 21:32

rkhanna wrote:^^ thanks a bunch.. very insightful.

Sorry but last question. I though SFF was removed from MoD and put under the Home Ministry due to the Chinese whining a decade or so ago. Is that still the case? Which would make the IG rank then make sense.


Well, SFF was and is under Cabinet Secretariat which you know is euphemism for which agency. Just as an aside - in case you'd followed the recent news about SAS chaps from UK advising certain special force about operations in Golden Temple Complex, you'd know they were talking about Special Group of SFF which was formed thereabout.

What happened was that SFF operatives were debarred - officially - from operating within certain kilometer from the India-Tibetan border. It seems there were events of them becoming too 'emotional' and were not able to restraint themselves during deployment close to the border. The whole thing is under the aegis of certain agency who shall not be named - and that is where the story narrated earlier about SFF operation fits in.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby sivab » 12 Jun 2014 22:09

The case against Lt. Gen. Dalbir Singh Suhag. A lot of cited evidence in article below is public record.

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2014/ ... mmand.html

Putting criminals in command? -- M.G.Devasahayam (Former Army and IAS officer)

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby merlin » 12 Jun 2014 22:19


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 12 Jun 2014 22:22

SFF was never a part of the Indian Army, and had been raised by the Intelligence Bureau, under BN Mullick.

The first IG SFF was a Lt.Col. Uban (initially DIG). I happen to know a bit about the history of the organisation.

The org does work closely with the military, and the IG SFF is an army officer, which by the way isnt strange at all. The IG, OPS, NSG is also an Army officer. IG is not a "rank" per se, merely an appointment. Policemen are civil servants, so they do not tenant any titular ranks (not allowed under the Constitution of India, Art.18- only military titles are permitted), but merely hold the appointment of Inspector General. As such, an Army officer, while being a Major General can also tenant the same appointment.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 12 Jun 2014 22:26

^^^Was it Lt. Col Uban or Major General Uban from 22 Field Regiment?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 12 Jun 2014 22:27

When he joined to form the SFF, as DIG, he was a Lieutenant Colonel. Became an acting Major General much later, in late 1971.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 12 Jun 2014 22:30

merlin wrote:https://storify.com/HemantAneja/gen-vks-goi-affidavit


That is a good summary of events and points.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby chaanakya » 12 Jun 2014 22:43

It would be advisable not to discuss appointment of Army Chief Designate Gen Suhag. Govt has said it is final and hence it is final.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2014 00:08

Some folks in MOD nexus feared VK Singh would become Def Minster eventually in Modi Sarkar and hence the preemptive affadavit was submitted.
Lets see how this plays out.
He will become Def minster eventualy and all those will seek transfers or premature retirement.
Cat among the rats.

Chaanakya The appointment is not being questioned for it could lead to morale issues.
So dont bring in strawmen.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Baikul » 13 Jun 2014 08:12

ramana wrote:...........................He will become Def minster eventualy .................


In 1991 ND Tiwari missed out on becoming Prime Minister of India (my opinion and that of many others, but opinion all the same) because he lost his election in Nainital constituency. It broke his career, thereafter. Does anyone remember Balraj Passi?

I don't know what your time frame is when you say 'eventually', but since we're opining, I have my doubts whether he will ever get it. The ministry, prestigious as it is, is traditionally given to 'senior leaders' with political 'weight'.

For VK Singh to be given this ministry he will need to first emerge as a national/ regional leader of consequence, and it remains to be seen whether he can do it. It'd need good old fashioned politicking, building a following, acquiring a party network, while all around you are trying to do the same and trying to take you down (these are your own party men and women, mind). Then, don't forget the fundamental ask- not to forget your constituency while you're flying high! Ignoring that simple rule has taken down may a political high flyer.

He may also go the other route to the defence ministry - he may simply emerge as a Modi intimate, given the keys to the inner circle. And then be anointed defence minister. But that remains to be seen.

Either option will require him to put in the hard yards, make his bones over time, so to speak.

My personal opinion- I can't see him doing either.

Now I don't subscribe to the theory that he's a simple, bluff soldier, hard done by. VK Singh may be hard done by (or not), but he's as smart as they come. No one gets to number one without possessing an element of - cunning. But cunning isn't enough- what little I see of him in the media tells me that he needs to acquire the other skills needed to become a successful politician for the long term. In short his next biggest challenge will not be becoming a national leader, nor become defence minister etc. Not even running his present ministry well, although that will help a lot. It will actually just be becoming a good Lok Sabha MP who can take care of his constituency, stay connected to his voters, manage local politics and ambitions, build his local cadre of loyalists, work with his MLAs, create his team at the bloc and village level, construct and motivate his men and women who will be there for him in the booths the next time. And no one there who will take a direct order, or turn up when asked to, or have the can do attitude of the army that he has been a part of all these years.

I am speaking from memory, so these numbers have no basis in any research. Just like after 1991, IMO, five years from now, in the next national election, around 40% of this current lot of BJP MPs will not be around. Many of them will disappear.

In short, VK Singh needs to ensure he does not become another Balraj Passi. That's his challenge.

As I said, just opinion.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 13 Jun 2014 08:27

NDTV (hindi) has a video discussion on this Gen V K Singh affair. A few army afsars and Subu Swamy participated. I have not watched it (yet) ...

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby arminius » 13 Jun 2014 12:59

It will actually just be becoming a good Lok Sabha MP who can take care of his constituency, stay connected to his voters, manage local politics and ambitions, build his local cadre of loyalists, work with his MLAs, create his team at the bloc and village level, construct and motivate his men and women who will be there for him in the booths the next time. And no one there who will take a direct order, or turn up when asked to, or have the can do attitude of the army that he has been a part of all these years.




Perhaps OT. But he was "paradropped" in Ghaziabad and has no local links --his native village is in Haryana. Moreover victory margin has more to do with Modi wave --even those who were third in last Legislative Assembly elections, got through this time with decent margins-- than his own charisma among local voters and hold over BJP cadre. it would real hard work to build up a constituency.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby schowdhuri » 13 Jun 2014 13:16



Another hatchet job by IE. This paper is foremost in putting armed forces down, even when it seems like it is praising it. Shekhar Gupta taught well before he left.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby schowdhuri » 13 Jun 2014 13:18

Joshi_Sa wrote:From what I have heard of the incident in NE which Lt. Gen. Suhag is being blamed for I can sum it up as follows:

SFF units collaboratig with RAW deployed in NE were on a mission to nab terroists running ams racket through myanmar border..primarily Chindu weapons of all kinds Granades, guns, pistols etc., these were being routed to different parts of the country (heard of stories like Ak-47 being used by secular community during muzzafarnagar riots near jolly canal, maoists getting radio sets & granades etc.)

An informer was handpicked and a couple of personnel were inserted with the informer's help into this arms cartel...informer got screwed up in his brains and told the cartel chief about the two personnel who were subsequently killed in the most grusome of manners I have ever heard of...naturally the whole unit was enraged & all elements went active..It was a blood hunt for their fallen comrades...the situation worsened when they reached a village from which both the cartel chief & informer hailed from & villagers started pelting stones etc., the boys hadn't taken any quarters as yet in the whole campaign neither they were asked to...a rampage in the village followed along with some boundary jump & run type of intelligence gathering were done on local politicians also...

In short...too many feathers got ruffled politically & financially...pressure mounted on Lt. Gen. Suhag, he refused to budge..lines of operations were crossed but somebody (Lt. Gen Suhag) had to put up a face to his jawans unlike the shameful behaviour which we saw on LoC a year back with practically response coming in only after the whole nation was enraged...

My Opinion: the choice here is between two rights here...staff college or not Lt. Gen. Suhag is no kaccha khiladi...VKS saab is upright & now a cabinate minister with a reputation to live up to & most advisable should not continue his old habit of washing dirty linen in public....best possible solution is to keep them both as apart as possible & stay mum about it...a broken clock also shows correct time once in a day..I expect the same case with UPA-II's appoinment of Lt. Gen. Suhag...


Sorry, but does not match up with the published/established facts of the case. Cooked up story.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby schowdhuri » 13 Jun 2014 13:24

Joshi_Sa wrote:
@srin Sir: I agree sir..but we keyboard warriors can only judge from our ends..like a scenario posted in this thread earlier of Siachen Glacier & the officer had to leave his jawan to die...it is very difficult to control as the circumstances are not under the ambit of control..the onus here is on the chioce of not good or bad but what is RIGHT...I can only imagine being stuck in a village of hostile people ready to erupt at a moments notice...everyone earns thru these cartels in small villages in NE...they obvoiusly weren't welcomed there & things tend to get bad when these things happen...


And how does this explain the recovery of the stolen goods from the unit personnel? Also an effect of hostile village?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby negi » 13 Jun 2014 18:40

There are always two sides to story while Gen V K Singh's action against Lt Gen Suhag can be debated endlessly so I will leave it at that however one thing which Gen V K Singh should get credit for i.e. for being the first service chief across the 3 services to stand up and openly call spade a spade i.e. accept and write to the PMO about the rampant corruption in arms deals and involvement of bad apples within the force. The first step towards correcting a wrong is to formally accept a wrong and coming from a service chief is a highly commendable quality which unfortunately the politically correct Indians and people who have too much to loose will never appreciate.

Many chiefs and armed forces afsars after retirement have written a blog or two or may be given an interview or two and accepted the above but it takes a lot more courage and character to risk 3+ years of unblemished track record by raking up an issue which no body is happy to talk or touch up on as IA chief.

V K Singh has not gained much by this , he could have happily retired in some defense colony/vasant vihar type locality in Panchkula/Doon/Ooti/Shimla but he chose not to do so , I for one welcome such a development for last 6 decades we have had chiefs who were more than happy to keep quiet about the bureaucracy and politicos feeding of the arms deal gravy train with help of bad apples in the forces , somebody chose to topple that train and is now facing some heat , hopefully some more will follow in his footsteps and GOI might notice and perhaps one day bring in required reforms.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Picklu » 13 Jun 2014 21:36

One thing that NaMoji has consistently displayed in his GJ CM days is a really really thick skin against media/opposition criticism while doing the correct thing. I do not think Gen(retd) VKS is going anywhere other than where he is really needed just because MSM and Con party is howling. The rest of the electorate couldn't care less.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby member_26622 » 13 Jun 2014 21:55

Did folks read about the 25 crore bribe request for LUH trial result by a senior army officer? HAL better drop any hopes for serving desi goodies to Army now.

It's painful but have to admit that 70% import for defense is driven by corruption, and more likely that Senior armed services folks are part of the foreign lobby! Not based on solid proof but using empirical data.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 13 Jun 2014 23:55

nik wrote:Did folks read about the 25 crore bribe request for LUH trial result by a senior army officer? HAL better drop any hopes for serving desi goodies to Army now.

It's painful but have to admit that 70% import for defense is driven by corruption, and more likely that Senior armed services folks are part of the foreign lobby! Not based on solid proof but using empirical data.


Is this a new one or one that was about favoring Augusta Westland ?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby chaanakya » 14 Jun 2014 00:03

ramana wrote:Some folks in MOD nexus feared VK Singh would become Def Minster eventually in Modi Sarkar and hence the preemptive affadavit was submitted.
Lets see how this plays out.
He will become Def minster eventualy and all those will seek transfers or premature retirement.
Cat among the rats.

Chaanakya The appointment is not being questioned for it could lead to morale issues.
So dont bring in strawmen.

What else is being discussed here? A botched operation by Army Intelligence Unit in Insurgency infested area and its ramifications. That itself will lead to serious morale issues if dirty linen is continued to wash in the public. Clock can not be turned back. It is time for graciously moving forward. Corruption issues in Army or elsewhere can not simply be tackled by discussing What some Army Unit did in past. VKS has indeed done well to raise the issue. But now it is a question of conflict of interest for him. Let NaMo deal with it or so we shall see.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 14 Jun 2014 03:10



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