Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

[RoyG]

NSG are being prepared for covert operations both inside and outside of the country. We are going to need them to carry out raids on military installations and personnel.

[schinnas]

NSG are being prepared for covert operations both inside and outside of the country. We are going to need them to carry out raids on military installations and personnel.

Is this your wish or guess or heard from any chaiwala? While I agree that more focus on counter insurgency / te r rorism for NSG is on the cards, would be good to read on the policy thinking behind this if it is in public domain.

[abhishek_sharma]

Turning down the heat: Army chief calls on V K Singh

[RoyG]

NSG are being prepared for covert operations both inside and outside of the country. We are going to need them to carry out raids on military installations and personnel.

Is this your wish or guess or heard from any chaiwala? While I agree that more focus on counter insurgency / te r rorism for NSG is on the cards, would be good to read on the policy thinking behind this if it is in public domain.

Spoke to someone in the know. There are plans to raise a few specialized units which will be used for foreign covert operations and will be working with IB and R&AW. The rest will be diverted to counterinsurgency, anti-terrorism, and high risk arrests. Name change may also be happening soon.

[Venu]

NSG are being prepared for covert operations both inside and outside of the country. We are going to need them to carry out raids on military installations and personnel.

RoyG ji, even if true, won't it be prudent to keep the info away from public domain. Not that I did not like to hear it, but..

[atreya]

... In other news.....

CISF prepares to become NSG substitute for VIP security


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 172529.cms

I remember reading similar news a couple of years ago. The CISF unit was supposed to be called 'Black Panthers', IIRC.

Edit: Here is the link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 062601.cms

[srin]

NSG are being prepared for covert operations both inside and outside of the country. We are going to need them to carry out raids on military installations and personnel.

Unlikely. It is far more likely it becomes a dedicated counter-terrorism unit to operate within country. For instance, unlike metros that are covered by NSG, Bangalore is covered by Para commandos. So, there is a lot of scope for NSG to become dedicated CT unit.

For covert ops, there is SFF that presumably works with Cabinet Secretariat and for more tactical cross-border ops, there is the Para SF of the military. There doesn't need to be NSG to be in this if it has more that enough to do in its stated purpose.

But overall - love the idea of NSG not doing VIP security.

[member_28539]

Sorry, but does not match up with the published/established facts of the case. Cooked up story.

@schowdhuri Published/Established facts also deny of us ever infringing any neighboring borders...but I am sure you will find that is also cooked up right?

And how does this explain the recovery of the stolen goods from the unit personnel? Also an effect of hostile village?

An operative of such elite standards will be such a moron to use a phone obtained in an op & use it for making jolly calls & get caught & spill beans to police then ...more like a case of hostile sense of judgement towards the standard of the force...

anyways no point in getting involved in this further...good luck to you..

[pushkar.bhat]

It would be advisable not to discuss appointment of Army Chief Designate Gen Suhag. Govt has said it is final and hence it is final.

+1

[Rony]

Haryana adds more muscle to Indian Army, leaves Punjab behind

Has Haryana replaced Punjab as the sword arm of the nation? The latest figures of the Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun, show that the Jat-land has taken the lead in producing officers, leaving Punjab, once the nursery of the armed forced, far behind.

Of the total 636 gentlemen cadets (GC) who passed out of IMA on Saturday, 62 are from Haryana, second only to Uttar Pradesh.

Despite having just 2.09% of the country's population, Haryana has produced almost 10% officers in the current batch. Even the gold and silver medals have gone to two Haryanvis — Vishal Dahiya and Vikash Kalkal.

The state's growing clout in the Army is reflected in the fact that former army chief VK Singh and the army chief-designate Dalbir Singh Suhag, both belong to Haryana.

Punjab has finished a lowly sixth in the list of states sending officers to the Army this time with just 33 cadets.

In the December 2013 passing out parade, 70 of 617 cadets who passed out from IMA were from Haryana. Uttar Pradesh, which is eight times bigger than Haryana with 16.49% population of the country, has maintained first position with 121 cadets.

Former deputy commandant of NDA, Major General (retired) BS Grewal says Haryanavis Chief of Nepal Army, general Gaurav Shumsher Rana took the salute from the officers during their passing out parade at Dehradun, following which the cadets were commissioned in different corps of the army on the rank of lieutenant.

Vishnu Peethambaran, who hails from Ernakulam district, has won the coveted Sword of Honour presented to the best all-round cadet at Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun.

Soldiers from the states who passed out on Saturday:

States No. of cadets
Uttar Pradesh 121
Haryana 62
Uttarakhand 57
Rajasthan 38
Delhi 37
Punjab 33
Maharashtra 32
Madhya Pradesh 30
Himachal Pradesh 29
Kerala 27
West Bengal 23
Andhra Pradesh 20
Karnataka 20
J&K 16
Odisha 10
Jharkhand 7
Manipur 6
Chandigarh 5
Assam 2
Gujarat 1
Tripura 1
Sikkim 1

Kakaji culture killing Punjab’s Army clout

Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and other smaller states have stolen a march over Punjab when it comes to giving muscle to the Army in the form of officers. Of the 636 cadets who has passed out of the Indian Military Academy (IMA) on Saturday, only 33 are from Punjab. This is just 5.18% intake of officers from the state, a drastic drop from the 25% it commanded till the 1980s.

In stark contrast, Uttarakhand has produced 57 officers this time, when its population is a third of Punjab's. Even Himachal Pradesh with 29 officers and Delhi with 37 officers, have fared better.

Punjab's performance this year is poorer than the previous passing out parade, held in December 2013, when 43 cadets in a batch of 617 had joined the Army.

Lt Gen (retd) Deepinder Singh, former Army commander of the Southern Command, blames Punjab's diminishing clout in the armed forces to the state's "kakaji" culture. "Today's parents are telling their sons not to work hard, as they have enough land to cash in on. This is responsible for the decline," he says.

Former vice-chief of Army, Lt Gen (retd) Vijay Oberoi said there was a culture among officers from Punjab to send their kids into the Army but the tradition no longer exists. "Earlier, people had a lot of respect for armed forces officers, which is not seen in the past two decades," he says. "That is also one of the reasons of the drop."

[rohitvats]

Spoke to someone in the know. There are plans to raise a few specialized units which will be used for foreign covert operations and will be working with IB and R&AW. The rest will be diverted to counterinsurgency, anti-terrorism, and high risk arrests. Name change may also be happening soon.

I hope we don't have another alphabet soup in our special forces - and duplication of scope and areas of responsibility. Why should a deputation force under MHA be used for foreign covert operations? Why not a Tier-1 SF like Delta Force under SpecOps Command? I know I'm jumping the gun here given the lack of information but I sincerely hope we get the SF structure all right this time.

[Nikhil T]

Indian Army not war ready; CoAS Bikram Singh tells PM Modi

Prime Minister Narendra Modi stepped into the War Room of the Military Operations Directorate of the Army Headquarters for the first time on Friday to review the security challenges on India's troubled frontiers. He hadn't reckoned with the inconvenient truth that India is not ready for war. Army chief General Bikram Singh did not hold back on the "critical hollowness" afflicting the Army after a decade of missed deadlines for procurement and wherewithal to face war. He made it clear that the basic weapon available to the infantry soldier — the INSAS Rifle — was obsolete. Firepower, critical in any war, is a worry because there's been no new addition of artillery guns since the scam-tainted Bofors deal of 1986. Army air defence is outdated as well. Army aviation, which is the lifeline for soldiers deployed on forbidding border posts up to 23,000 feet high, is saddled with the over 40-year-old Cheetah-Chetak helicopters. Night blindness is a critical factor not adequately addressed.

The efforts to deal with military obsolescence over the last decade appear clumsy and incompetent. No headway has been made in the over $5 billion artillery modernisation programme, despite multiple tenders and repeated trials. It's the same story with the $1 billion acquisition of 197 light helicopters for the Army. India's big air defence programme — the $5 billion Very Short Range Air Defence Systems (VSHORAD) is stuck in red tape. So is the Short-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (SRSAM) development programme. The $1.5 billion procurement of the basic assault rifle and carbine for the infantry hasn't made any significant progress. The anti-tank Javelin missile too appears a mirage, as also the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV).

The most startling of the challenges flagged by General Bikram Singh to be addressed on a priority basis was the depletion in the war wastage reserves for ammunition, which has fallen well below 50%. "Current levels will not last even a week of intense war," sources acknowledged. General Bikram Singh wants a Rs 19,250 cr funding to replenish ammunition stocks. "The roadmap entails making up 50% of the war wastage reserves of ammunition by the end of 2015 and 100% by 2019," sources disclosed.

"Of all the services, the progress in the modernisation programme of the Army has been the worst. The only significant assets we've added over the last decade are the T-90 tanks, the Smerch long-range artillery, Pinaka rocket systems and the Brahmos missiles. Very serious gaps are showing in our capability. These must be addressed by the new government on avery urgent basis. That's our urgent appeal to the political leadership," said a senior officer.

Sources said the War Room briefing for Modi lasted 2 hours and 45 minutes. The Army is hoping that its severe readiness deficit registered on the Prime Minister.

[Manish_Sharma]

^ The same thing was told by General V.K. Singh to mms and there was such big hulla-gulla & now NaMo is told the same thing but no hulla about security leak about country's weakness.

[ramana]

So what are Clean Mundu Scamthony's fanboys have to say now?

[schowdhuri]

Subverted Generals, crooks and arms lobby
http://www.canarytrap.in/2014/06/14/sub ... rms-lobby/

[JTull]

Soldiers from the states who passed out on Saturday:

States No. of cadets
Uttar Pradesh 121
Haryana 62
Uttarakhand 57
Rajasthan 38
Delhi 37
Punjab 33
Maharashtra 32
Madhya Pradesh 30
Himachal Pradesh 29
Kerala 27
West Bengal 23
Andhra Pradesh 20
Karnataka 20
J&K 16
Odisha 10
Jharkhand 7
Manipur 6
Chandigarh 5
Assam 2
Gujarat 1
Tripura 1
Sikkim 1

Bit surprised there's no cadet from Tamil Nadu despite decent population. All other Southern States have a healthy participation.

Added Later:
what about Bihar?

[Yogi_G]

INSAS is obsolete? If yes, then isnt it our home-grown product and we could have kept it constantly upgraded like what we claim we will do with the LCA, open bus architecture and all. I know the F-INSAS has a new weapon but isnt it an improved version of the INSAS with Israeli help to reduce weight?

[satya]

General Singh sounded more like lobbyist Vikram Singh. In continuing the rotten tradition started under tenure of Gen. 3pm golf course general ,no wonder he too want his PPF / one big arm deal cashed before retirement. What has been his track record other than being a errand boy running the 'unofficial but real message' from First Family and dismantling TSD as one of numerous confidence building measures .
Another point : he is 'conveying' to NaMoji to leave out any ideas of disturbing status-quo on LoC & even limited operations in event of another 26/11 type attack atleast till the tenure of next designated COAS ends going by his not ready for war message . So NaMoji should 'forget' that IA will ever be battleready under current & next-designated COAS . No wonder NaMoji chose IN for his first defence establishment tour.
Let's count the number of open-sources IEDs planted for Namoji :

1) Not war ready IA
2) Financial disaster
3) Liquidation of BJP leadership in UP
4) Usual suspects in BJP
5) Indian Media
6) Not so helpful bureaucracy

Steps he has taken : US trip , new revenue secretary & appointment of Shri. Doval ( to avoid another 26/11 type attack at any cost ) .

[chetak]

GENERALS AND THEIR SPECIFIC AGENDAS

Sunday, 15 June 2014 | Rajesh Singh | in Plain Talk

How would you expect a former Chief of Army Staff, now a Minister, to react when an affidavit filed by his own Government in the Supreme Court slams his conduct of taking disciplinary action as Army chief against a subordinate as “premeditated, vague and illegal”? What sort of response would you anticipate when that same affidavit further condemns his action on the ground that it had been taken “without any basis or material on record”? Perhaps a different Minister would have taken it lying down, but not General VK Singh.

An officer who took the unprecedented step of dragging the Government to court as a serving Chief of Army Staff on what he believed was a matter of principle; an Army chief who had the courage to tell his Defence Minister that he had been offered a huge bribe to clear some purchases, and seek action against the accused; a soldier who had the temerity to acknowledge the hidden truth, that it was regular for the Army to fund people-friendly projects by nationalist politicians in Jammu & Kashmir — surely, one would not have expected such a person to swallow the insult without a squeak.

So, responding in his characteristic, scathing manner, Gen Singh took to Twitter on the issue, and said, “If unit kills innocents, does dacoity and then head of organisation tries to protect them, should he not be blamed? Criminals should go free!!” This led to an explosion of furious comments from the Opposition, with leaders demanding that he either quit the Government or be sacked for ‘demeaning’ our Army personnel by calling them dacoits and killers, and for ‘questioning’ the integrity of the incoming Chief of Army Staff, whom he referred to in the Tweet as the “head of organisation”.

Before we get to the facts of the case that Gen Singh has referred to, two points need attention. The first is that the offensive affidavit filed in the apex court had been along the lines of what the predecessor Government had wanted against a General it did not like. The second is that somehow the affidavit, designed to suit the earlier regime's designs, sneaked through the new Government in which Gen Singh is a Minister. The first is understandable, the second isn't. How is it possible that any official in the Defence Ministry could have possibly overlooked the insulting tone against the Minister and allowed the affidavit to be filed in the court? Union Minister for Defence Arun Jaitley has directed an inquiry into the case. We need not speculate on the outcome, but what is clear is that somebody in the Ministry, lower down or higher up, slipped — deliberately or otherwise.

What should the Government now do, apart from acting against those who allowed the obnoxious affidavit to be filed? As BJP leader Subramanian Swamy has said, the Modi regime must immediately withdraw the affidavit that distorts the truth. This it must do before the court resumes sitting after vacation in a few days. It can replace the mischievous document with a fresh and sensible one. If this does not happen, it will become difficult for Gen Singh to remain in Government, because he will be constantly heckled by the Opposition and perhaps looked at with some amount of suspicion even by his own colleagues in the Government and the party for the embarrassment he could cause. Most importantly, since Gen Singh does not like his dignity to be played around with, he could turn even more belligerent, spilling cans of worms that could worry a lot many people than are worked up now.

Let's refresh our memory with the specifics of the case at hand, in a condensed form, which Gen VK Singh referred to in his Tweet. There is the account of former Army officer and former IAS officer MG Devasahayam in one of his published articles. The contents are broadly what have been generally accepted as the truth, as later inquiries have borne out. He writes, “In the early hours of December 2011, an armed party of 15 soldiers dressed in battle fatigues under the command of Captain Rubina Kaur Keer, an officer of Colonel Shreekumar's IU (Intelligence Unit) raided the house of one Poona Gogoi, an Army contractor in Jorhat, who was in Guwahati. But all members of the family — wife (Renu Gogoi) and three children — were manhandled and tied up. On the orders of the Captain Keer, soldiers forcibly took the keys of the locked cupboards and took into possession a licenced pistol with 13 cartridges, jewellery worth Rs 6.50 lakh and cash adding up to Rs 1.50 lakh. They also took away an assortment of items that included a laptop and four mobile phones.” Is this not loot and dacoity?

Soon after his return, Poona Gogoi filed a police complaint. The police got a break after an Army Havildar made a call from one of the stolen mobile phones. He was traced, and thereafter the sordid incident was bared before the public. The soldiers who participated in this shameful incident belonged to a Corps then under the command of Lt Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag — who is now set to take over as the next Army chief. Lt Gen Suhag reportedly told the local police that the incident was none of its concern and that the Army would deal with it. Meanwhile, Assam Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi spoke to Gen VK Singh, who was the Army chief during the period, and demanded strict action against the accused. A Court of Inquiry was ordered into the incident, and the Court of Inquiry gave its report to Army Headquarters in April 2012. A few personnel were punished; Lt Gen Suhag was never brought in the loop. A month later, Gen VK Singh issued a show cause notice to Lt Gen Suhag and placed him under a Discipline Vigilance Ban, effectively blocking his rise for the moment in the military ranks.

This being the case, did Gen VK Singh act in a malicious manner, even given the fact that he imposed the DVB hours before he demitted office? Congressmen who are shouting themselves hoarse on the incident should perhaps ask their Chief Minister from Assam whether Gen VK Singh had acted appropriately. They must also tell whether it is okay for the officer of a Corps not to take moral responsibility for the heinous acts of his subordinates. And, if Gen VK Singh's ban on Lt Gen Suhag was mala fide because it came hours before the former hanged his boots, how is the decision of his successor, Gen Bikram Singh, to revoke the ban hours after he assumed office, any less questionable? Finally, why was it that the position of the commander of the Eastern Command kept vacant after Lt Gen Suhag faced the DVB? Was it not in anticipation of clearance of the officer's name by Gen VK Singh's successor, which would pave the way for Lt Gen Suhag to eventually occupy that position?

Truth often has many sides. We do not have to believe everything that Gen VK Singh says. But we don’t also have to take as the Gospel the largely motivated insinuations against the former Army chief.

[ramana]

After dismantling TSD the Army chief has been part of problem and needs to resign for having failed to discharge his duty to the service and country.

[chetak]

After dismantling TSD the Army chief has been part of problem and needs to resign for having failed to discharge his duty to the service and country.

TSD was dismantled by the kangress on orders of the panicked termite queen

just like gujral did with R&AW assets in pukiland and with similar motives.

[schinnas]

VK Singh did not handle the issue with decorum and maturity expected of a General or a minister. A mature response would be first to not rush into such tweets. If he was pained at the characterization of the language in the affidavit, he should have politely asked the PM or defense minister to issue a clarification instilling faith in VK Singh failing which he could have tendered his resignation quietly and taken the moral high ground.

If he had to issue a statement, he could have just said that it was the line taken by UPA and he doesnt agree with it and that he would let the current defence minister take appropriate action and would abide by it.

A person in such a high office should know how to control ego and act dignified even in time of provocation. Being a loose canon is not how VK Singh should repay Modi-ji's trust in him.

[satya]

Imagine current COAS during Kargil War and his response would have been !

[chetak]

VK Singh did not handle the issue with decorum and maturity expected of a General or a minister. A mature response would be first to not rush into such tweets. If he was pained at the characterization of the language in the affidavit, he should have politely asked the PM or defense minister to issue a clarification instilling faith in VK Singh failing which he could have tendered his resignation quietly and taken the moral high ground.

If he had to issue a statement, he could have just said that it was the line taken by UPA and he doesnt agree with it and that he would let the current defence minister take appropriate action and would abide by it.

A person in such a high office should know how to control ego and act dignified even in time of provocation. Being a loose canon is not how VK Singh should repay Modi-ji's trust in him.

VKS's reaction was correct, under the circumstances.

subversive baboo(n)s undermined him to cause huge embarrassment as dictated by the arms lobby.

[Paul]

My speculation, VK Singh is being groomed to become a defence minister in at least mos role.

[ramana]

Soon after 26/11/2008 MMS asked Gen Deepak Kapoor about IA readiness. He got same answer as NaMo got from Gen Bikram Singh!

IA is unready.

[muraliravi]

Soon after 26/11/2008 MMS asked Gen Deepak Kapoor about IA readiness. He got same answer as NaMo got from Gen Bikram Singh!

IA is unready.

So the difference that Namo and his team can make really would be to get answer stating "IA is ready" and that too from a general who is extremely conservative before making a statement.

[satya]

Soon after 26/11/2008 MMS asked Gen Deepak Kapoor about IA readiness. He got same answer as NaMo got from Gen Bikram Singh!

IA is unready.

So the difference that Namo and his team can make really would be to get answer stating "IA is ready" and that too from a general who is extremely conservative before making a statement.

It will be a while for this to happen thanks to next designated COAS no different than current one . At best NaMoji 'can' try to ensure that the COAS doesn't interrupt the 'no hold' reply from our forces to TSPA's ceasefire violations . Real hope lies atleast for first half of his tenure is in formation of JSOC type command ,a bit independent from current IA set up something advocated by Gen. Prakash Katoch ( hope i got the name right) with a say in important national security matters.

[ramana]

After dismantling TSD the Army chief has been part of problem and needs to resign for having failed to discharge his duty to the service and country.

TSD was dismantled by the kangress on orders of the panicked termite queen

just like gujral did with R&AW assets in pukiland and with similar motives.

Its a pity that Adm DK Joshi did not use that excuse and stay on after the second submarine incident.

And you are incorrect in the equivalence.

[schinnas]

VKS's reaction was correct, under the circumstances.

subversive baboo(n)s undermined him to cause huge embarrassment as dictated by the arms lobby.

Not at all. It was devoit of gravitas and decorum. No circumstance justifies it. Bring right is not an excuse to act unprofessionally. There are lot of ways to handle it in a graceful way befitting his office. VKS did lot of disservice to his own case with his cheap acts.

[Cosmo_R]

The Indian military suffers from a "profit center" mentality. Fighting to get a bigger share of the budget than than acquiring the capability to meet threats.

When they start thinking like the Israelis: unified capability to inflict harm on the enemy versus disparate land/air/water means of doing so, then things will be a lot clearer.

Badges, pennants, mess halls Hodson's horse etc are fine for movies but get over it. This is not about tradition, it's about dropping a lot of harm on the enemy at a moment's notice sans the ceremony.

Increasingly, the Indian defense posture seems to reflect a Rajnikanth movie

[Cosmo_R]

Soon after 26/11/2008 MMS asked Gen Deepak Kapoor about IA readiness. He got same answer as NaMo got from Gen Bikram Singh!

IA is unready.

And like Brazil (country of the future and always will be), the IA and the IAF and the IN will always be unready. Why? because there is no defined strategic objective. We have armed forces that are reactive based on a policy that seems to respond with " Oh scheiss, we can't..."

In the 1960s, LBJ described the US as a "pitiful helpless giant" if it was not seen to be acting.

India really needs to shed the PHG to be taken seriously as a player.

The IA/IAF/In need to be an integrated force as in "joint" and not spend their time arguing about who should get what assets and seniority promotions and the like.

Frankly, the whole setup seems like an inward looking exercise in career management versus looking at ways to defeat the enemy.

FWIW, I had high high hopes for VKS. He's subsequently proven himself to be on a par with Arundhati Roy—the god of small things. As MoS he's embroiled in chicken sheisse stuff with DSS.

Does not say much for intellectual caliber. Really disappointed and afraid it will derail NaMo's vision,

[Karan M]

Good points overall, but one nitpick.

>>And like Brazil (country of the future and always will be), the IA and the IAF and the IN will always be unready. Why? because there is no defined strategic objective. We have armed forces that are reactive based on a policy that seems to respond with " Oh scheiss, we can't..."

...In 2008, only the IAF seemed ready to act, with a then AVM and later its CAS, raring to go against the Pakis. Some waah-waah from a bhestherner.
http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/5000-ter ... -pakistan/

They were also proactive in setting up and operationalizing capabilities against a joint PAF-PLAAF scenario (even if stretched).

[rohitvats]

^^^I think it was the Navy Chief which suggested having a go at Pakis post 26/11 but was immediately shot down by MMS - stating that there will be no talk of retribution. It did feature in one of the newspaper articles. As for army not ready for war, that was a fig-leaf spread by UPA apologist...the GOI itself was not in favor of any military options.

[Karan M]

One way to ensure IAs war making ability is impeded is to refuse it ammo of all kinds, artillery !! Which is exactly what was done IMO by GOI.

[chetak]

VKS's reaction was correct, under the circumstances.

subversive baboo(n)s undermined him to cause huge embarrassment as dictated by the arms lobby.

Not at all. It was devoit of gravitas and decorum. No circumstance justifies it. Bring right is not an excuse to act unprofessionally. There are lot of ways to handle it in a graceful way befitting his office. VKS did lot of disservice to his own case with his cheap acts.

He is not the Chief any more. He is a politician and he has to be able to fight dirty when required. He is no pushover as a lot of people have already discovered and many more will discover, going forward.

People will think twice before tangling with him publically again, especially the bloody MOD baboo(n)s.

He is feared because of his honesty and determination. You can't say that about too many politicians today.

[satya]

^^^I think it was the Navy Chief which suggested having a go at Pakis post 26/11 but was immediately shot down by MMS - stating that there will be no talk of retribution. It did feature in one of the newspaper articles. As for army not ready for war, that was a fig-leaf spread by UPA apologist...the GOI itself was not in favor of any military options.

TWIW str8 from horsemouth :
IAF was ready & wanted to go for punitive strike with IA's troops/commandoes conducting ground operations primarily across the loc . And for a change GoI ( read the first family & advisors ) agreed but IA ( read Gen. DK ) backed out saying IA was 'not' ready for counter attack from TSPA as IA was short of ..................... fill the blanks ( billions of dollars purchase ). Rest is history .

[Victor]

We have armed forces that are reactive based on a policy that seems to respond with " Oh scheiss, we can't..."

In the 1960s, LBJ described the US as a "pitiful helpless giant" if it was not seen to be acting.

India really needs to shed the PHG to be taken seriously as a player.

Last I knew, the Indian armed forces were under civilian control. Exactly whose policies is the "Oh scheiss.." response based on?

The IA/IAF/In need to be an integrated force as in "joint" and not spend their time arguing about who should get what assets and seniority promotions and the like.

The way things are set up, the IA/IAF/IN don't have the authority to become a "joint" anything other than what they already are for the same reason mentioned above. ie. its not their brief. They can make recommendations which in turn can be seconded by several layers of CYA committees but in the end it is the politician and babu who makes the call.

Arguing for control of the meager bones thrown their way is something each force leader is duty-bound to do in order to be as responsible as he can be in the face of perceived threats. Instead what we have had is a mass shoving of thumbs up collective asses in MoD babus and politicians who have done/said exactly nothing. Hope that changes fast, now that the pathetic Do-Nothing Anthony is history.

Frankly, the whole setup seems like an inward looking exercise in career management versus looking at ways to defeat the enemy.

Agreed. But who is doing the career management, the generals or their political bosses? Bikram Singh is MMS's relative and UPA2 hurriedly pushed thru Suhag's appointment at the last second even after being ignominiously thrown out by the Indian public. Does this not merit serious worry on our part?

As MoS he's embroiled in chicken sheisse stuff with DSS.

Turning a general into a politician can be a very difficult though prudent thing to do before letting him loose on the MoD. Besides, MoS with responsibility for most of the world's countries and DONER is no small scheiss.

There is a well choreographed move to sideline VKS by several vested interests, not the least slimy of whom are now cowering in the MoD with teeth chattering, but it won't work. It is quite certain the Modi backs VKS solidly and wants a no-nonsense person with the balls and conviction to take on his so-called superiors on his side. Especially a very popular ex-COAS.

[rohitvats]

TWIW str8 from horsemouth :
IAF was ready & wanted to go for punitive strike with IA's troops/commandoes conducting ground operations primarily across the loc . And for a change GoI ( read the first family & advisors ) agreed but IA ( read Gen. DK ) backed out saying IA was 'not' ready for counter attack from TSPA as IA was short of ..................... fill the blanks ( billions of dollars purchase ). Rest is history .

I can understand IA not ready for counter-strike from PA because of ability of PA to mobilize faster and lack of forces in being to counter any assault but it makes no sense to say we lack equipment. A much worse equipped army was ready post 2001 parliament attack and gave serious brown salwar moments to PA in mid 2002.

I don't buy that argument - however, what is quite possible that DK being DK could have given a certain opinion to allow politicians to wiggle out and say something in press.

[Karan M]

RV, he did much the same in the Siachen episode too. First played along with MMS and gang for a sell out. Then did a volte face and said, IA does not approve. LOL, more political than the politicos themselves.