Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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jamwal
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby jamwal » 04 Oct 2016 15:42

Proof please ?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Patni » 04 Oct 2016 15:52

Link to Office order

Here is link on official http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in/ GoI website.

Also Syndicate bank on its official web site has put up this pdf.

Link to PDF by Bank

An account titled “Army Welfare Fund Battle Casualties” has been opened
at Syndicate Bank, South Block Branch, New Delhi (IFSC Code:
SYNB0009055), with account number 90552010165915, which has been
approved by the Integrated HQ of Ministry of Defence (Army) and as per their
approval the donations received in the fund will be utilized to pay financial
assistance/grant to widows of our Battle Casualties, their next of kin and
dependents

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Vineetmehta_del » 04 Oct 2016 17:25

Patni wrote:Link to Office order

Here is link on official http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in/ GoI website.

Also Syndicate bank on its official web site has put up this pdf.

Link to PDF by Bank

An account titled “Army Welfare Fund Battle Casualties” has been opened
at Syndicate Bank, South Block Branch, New Delhi (IFSC Code:
SYNB0009055), with account number 90552010165915, which has been
approved by the Integrated HQ of Ministry of Defence (Army) and as per their
approval the donations received in the fund will be utilized to pay financial
assistance/grant to widows of our Battle Casualties, their next of kin and
dependents


Done my duty for monthly deductions.

chetak
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 04 Oct 2016 19:24

received by email

The Hon’ble Raksha Mantri said a few weeks ago about going to Pakistan is like going to hell.

In his monthly broadcast Mann ki Baat on 25 Sep 16, the Hon’ble Prime Minister is quoted, (in The Hindu, 26 Sep 16) as saying, “I pay tributes to our 18 soldiers who lost their lives in the Uri attack. *This
cowardly act was enough to shake the country*. *It has not only left the
people mourning but has also infuriated them*. The loss of our soldiers is
a national loss…..”

The substance of the Hon’ble PM’s speech and the Hon’ble RM’s comment is in sharp contrast with emptiness of the actual situation now brought to the headlines by Chiefs requesting MoD to delay in implementation of 7th CPC recommendations (as amended).

We have seen, heard, and read about sacrifices by serving members of our
Army, Navy and Air Force and proof provided by Veterans who have lost
limbs, and Widows of soldiers, sailors, and airmen who have served India
and sacrificed their lives. It will be in the headlines of newspapers for a
couple of days. The deaths will earn more TRPs proportionate to the
loudness and harshness of the language of the anchor on prime time news
programmes and Veterans who sputter with rage and far less coherence etc.
Then they will move onto some other ‘breaking news.’ The deaths and
sacrifices will be forgotten till the next lot of deaths.

But hell for Armed Forces personnel and Veterans and widows of Armed Forces
personnel is closer home. How and what will the families of 18 live on,
henceforth? It will be a pittance when compared to the fact that the 18
made the supreme sacrifice and the 19 nearly made that supreme sacrifice.

Did the deaths of many Armed Forces personnel shake up the officials in
MoD and Def (Fin) in South Block, and in ‘B’ Wing of Sena Bhawan, and in
the office of CGDA on Ulan Bator Marg, and the office of PCDA (P) in
Draupadi Ghat etc to stop them creating hell for Armed Forces personnel,
Veterans and Widows? Will these 18 deaths shake them up now?

Let us take the case of those 18 (and other) deceased personnel. Their
families will get 60% (of the deceased Armed Forces personnel’s) last pay
drawn as Special Family Pensions (SFP), if the above named officials do not
write on files that the soldiers were sleeping in temporary accommodation
and hence should not get full benefit, after the papers are processed and
crawl through the labyrinths of the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD) and various
departments, and then cross the Raj path (avoiding traffic or being stopped
for a VVIP/VIP convoy) to the North Block for the Ministry of (MOF) to give
its concurrence. So, the life of the Armed Forces personnel who died
fighting terrorists has been devalued by 40%!

As for those injured, depending on the extent of their injuries and medical
consequences, they will be sanctioned disability benefits of varying
percentages, but only if some one in the above mentioned offices does NOT
decide that his personal medical knowledge is better than that of the Armed
Forces doctors and lowers the disability benefits. And again ironically,
the Disability Act 1995 does not apply to Armed Forces personnel because
they retire before that hallowed age of 60 years!

The hell that Armed Forces personnel face from ‘friendly fire’ (what else
can it be termed as?) is not known to Bharatvasis because serving members
of the Armed Forces NEVER complain about the long hours of duty required to
ensure the integrity of this Nation. They NEVER complain that they have to
fight with poor weapons produced by our Ordnance Factories or when rifles
misfire when they face terrorists. They NEVER complain about the heavy but
less effective bullet proof jackets because some one sitting in the
air-conditioned rooms in the above named buildings take their time
‘processing’ files. They NEVER complain that they are working in submarines
where the poor quality of batteries has led to fires and deaths due to
poisonous fumes. They NEVER complain that they have to fly aeroplanes which
have many components that do not work (and placed on the Concessions list!)
and other aeroplanes that lack the basic search and rescue equipment which
the recent case of the missing An-32 has brought out. They NEVER complained
that slow or lack of decisions by the civilians employed in MoD led to the
Pulgaon blasts that killed Armed Forces personnel and civilian
fire-fighters.

Bharatvasis should know, unlike what the learned Chairman of the 7th CPC
said that canteen facilities, entitled (not free) rations are given even to
the Central Armed Police Forces. Bharatvasis and Chairman of 7th CPC might
have read of the Sanskriti School run by wives of the All India Services
Officers (IAS, IFS, IPS and IFoS) for their children. Bharatvasis may not
know, like the Chairman 7th CPC may not too, that Sanskriti is funded by
the profits of the Armed Forces Canteens *but not *from the CAPF canteens.

Personnel of the Armed Forces are not permitted to have unions to represent
them to ask the Ministry of Defence what more should they sacrifice over
and above their lives to be treated with dignity by the Govt of India? They
cannot walk into the office of the Raksha Mantri to register their anguish,
like 16 Joint Secretaries did in the Home Ministry to place their
grievances before the Home Minister.

The widows of officers, soldiers, sailors, and airmen who gave their youth
for India, and for us, ask what more should they sacrifice than the lives
of their husbands to get more than 30% of the last pay drawn as an Ordinary
Family Pension (OFP) being granted now. They ask how do we ensure the
future of our children who have to be brought up and educated to stand on
their feet on a smaller percentage of the last pay drawn of their late
husbands? The late husband may have dropped his children by scooter (and
saved school bus fares), while earning 20% more than the widow’s pension,
besides other things including earning an additional income, working as
Security guard (Rs 5000-7000 per month) or a Security supervisor (Rs
7000-10,000 per month). How is the widow expected to supplement her
income? By stitching clothes on the sewing machine provided by welfare
organisations when it is cheaper to buy the similar clothes online?

The Veterans who lead disabled lives ask how do we fight legal battles in
Courts (RM's Committee of Experts report has not been heard of after it was
submitted) when they cannot afford even the travel expenditure while the
MoD uses services of Govt’s law officers even if the Armed Forces Tribunal
awards a benefit of Rs 300/ p.m to the disabled? The Veterans, many are
with one leg, one hand, one eye, and some with bullets inside their bodies
because surgeons say they will die if they operate because the bullet(s)
is/are too close to a vital organ like the heart or lungs, even the brain
ask, “What else should we sacrifice for this Nation so that we get a
reasonable quality of life, medical aid of a reasonable standard, and
assistance for our families?” This, Honourable Citizens of India, is the
hell that is closer at home.

Lest this is construed as another Veteran’s sentimental rant, please peruse
a few examples from Court orders, and from file notings.

*Case of One Widow*

In 2010, Smt Pushpavanti approached the Honourable Supreme Court
(Writ Petition (Civil) No. 291 of 2010) praying for better pension than the
pittance she was being paid. *The MoD fielded then Attorney General for
India* (May his soul rest in peace) *and then Solicitor General of India* to
defend itself. After a stinging rebuke by the Honourable Bench who also
gave a temporary relief of constituting an Armed Forces Grievance Redress
Commission and to take instructions from the Govt for setting up a separate
Pay Commission for Armed Forces. It was a fleeting hope of “achhe din,”
because the Hon’ble Court recalled its order.

So, the Armed Forces personnel and Veterans, and widows were back
at where they started – at the not so tender mercies of the MoD.

*Delay and Aborted Denial of Court granted Benefits*

On 04 Jul 2003, a Division Bench of the Hon’ble High Court of
Kerala dismissed the Writ Appeal (No. 518 of 1998) in UoI vs Maj A K
Dhanapalan and upheld the order of a Single Judge restoring amount Rank Pay
deducted by the MoD in refixation of Pay. Instead of paying Maj Dhanapalan,
the Deptt of Expenditure advised MoD “to take a chance for filing a Special
Leave Petition” on 06 Aug 2004 in the Hon’ble Supreme Court. The SLP (No.
5908 of 2005) was dismissed at the first hearing by the Hon’ble Court on 12
Jul 2005. The advice of MoF was inspite of the Addl Solicitor General
advising against filing the SLP.

On 04 Sep 2012, the Honourable Supreme Court awarded restoration
of rank pay which was deducted in 1986 onwards for re-fixation of the pay
of officers of the Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Hon’ble Court also
directed that the *benefit of its order be extended to all eligible
officers whether or not they had approached the Hon’ble Courts, Armed
Forces Tribunals etc* (Interlocutory Application No. 9 of 2010 in Transfer
Petition (Civil) No. 56 of 2007). The Solicitor General (now a Hon’ble
Judge of the Supreme Court) opined on 31 Oct 2012 that the Govt should
comply with the order in letter and spirit.

But Deptt of Exp, MoF’s habit die hard. Then Deputy Secretary in the
Department of Expenditure, MoF, asked why the Court’s *order should not be
implemented only for Army officers because the majority of the litigants
were from the Army*. Obviously, contrary to the opinion of the Solicitor
General, the Dy Secy had his own interpretation of the order of the Hon’ble
Court and his intent to deny benefits to the Armed Forces personnel was
proved beyond doubt [MoD File No. 34 (6)/2012 – D (Pay/Services) Note no.
18 Para 3 (c) dated 9 Nov 2012].

*Delay in Pension Orders for Armed Forces Veterans and Widows*

Before 1.1.2006, if you served for 33 years you were given full pension. If
you served less than 33 years, your pension was divided by number of year
of service divided by 33 years. For example if pension for 33 years was Rs
33000 and the Govt employee worked for 22 years he would get Rs 22000. The
Supreme Court upheld the appeal of a retired civilian employee that he
should get full pension which is 50% of his last drawn pay.

Govt of India issued orders on 6th April 2016 for restoration of pension
for retired civilian employees deleting the pro-rata deduction of pension
of those who have served more than 20 years but less than 33 years and
Ministry of Defence issued similar on 8th April 2016 for restoration of
pension for retired Defence civilian employees.

*But till the date of this paper, the orders for retired Armed Forces
soldiers, sailors, airmen, and officers deleting the pro-rata deduction of
pension of those who have served more than 20 years but less than 33 years
have not been issued because “the matter is under inter-ministerial
consultation” replies the Joint Secretary in the Deptt of Ex-Servicemen
Welfare. ( I think Govt has agreed to give it as for civilians)*

*Convoluted Logic on Disability Benefits for Veterans*

7th Central Pay Commission (7th CPC) has decided and recommended to the
Govt that disability benefits for 100% disability should be restricted to
Rs 27000 for disabled officers, Rs 17000 for disabled Junior Commissioned
Officers (JCOs) and Rs 12000 for disabled soldiers/sailors/airmen of the
ranks of Havildars, Naiks and Lance Naiks (called Other Ranks or ORs).

The reasons given by the 7th CPC, perhaps on the advice of an IDAS officer
who was member of the Pay Commission’s Secretariat, is that about 20% of
the officers awarded disability benefits are senior officers like Colonels,
Brigadiers, Major Generals and Lieutenant Generals who continue to serve
till their ages of retirement whereas only 7.2% of JCOs and ORs awarded
disability benefits continue to serve till their retirement ages.

The country will be *unhappy to note* that the 20% are actually about 2000
senior officers who are in strategic, tactical planning and decision making
roles or have had expertise from specialised training paid by the State,
whereas the 7.2% are 95000 JCOs and ORs who have faced bullets and
improvised explosive devices of terrorists, anti-nationals and insurgents.
Due to those stresses they may be suffering from hypertension, diabetes,
partial loss of hearing (being too close to artillery guns without ear
defenders whose purchase awaits concurrence of Def (Fin) and much more –
all attributable and/or aggravated due to military service.

The 7th CPC did not consider it fit to consider how the Army, Navy, and Air
Force can invalided out 2000 officers or 95000 JCOs and ORs, in addition to
about 800 officers who superannuate and 55000 JCOs/ORs who retire or
complete their terms of engagement every year.

The 7th CPC did not ask the Director General of Armed Forces Medical
Services reasons for such large number of officers, JCOs and ORs continuing
in Armed Forces with disabilities but relied on the statistic supplied by
Controller General of Defence Accounts *to punish the Armed Forces by
lowering the amount of disability benefits*. After stating that it is being
done for equity and justice!

*Irrationality of an Incentive to Serve Govt of India anywhere in India*

The unfairness will become evident to Honourable Members when we read in
the 7th CPC Report the recommendation that IAS, IFS, IPS and Indian Forest
Services Officers [*All India Services – (AIS)] are to be paid 30% of their
Basic Pay **as incentive for volunteering to serve in Ladakh or in Assam
and other north-eastern States of the Union of India. The basic pay of
these officers will be between Rs 56,100 and Rs 2,25 000 and the
incentive could range from Rs 15,480 to Rs 67,500.*

On the other hand, Armed Forces officers serving in the Siachen glacier are
recommended to be paid Rs 31,500 and JCOs/ORs will be paid Rs 21,000 per
month. *They will get no incentive to serve in Ladakh, Assam or the
north-eastern States of the Union of India*! Ironically, an AIS officer
will be rewarded 30% of his pay for agreeing to the serve his employer, the
Govt of India, in Ladakh, Assam etc where the danger of dying from
terrorist attacks is lesser!

*In Conclusion*

The Government of India is *the true and actual Civil Authority*. The Armed
Forces personnel as well as civilian government employees, whether from the
IAS or IPS or Organised Group A services like the Indian Defence Accounts
Service (IDAS) are accountable to the Govt. The honourable Govt must demand
that the IAS, IDAS etc do not usurp authority, and sanction for themselves
some benefits and concessions while denying the Armed Forces personnel,
Veterans and Widows the same set of benefits and concessions misquoting it
as supremacy of Civilian Authority.

*Baat hain Maan, Samman, aur Maryada ki*

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 04 Oct 2016 20:05

Patni Ji and Vineet Mehta ji

Thank you for bringing this to my notice. I would like to contribute on a regular basis here.

@Mods - Sirs - i would like to request that the below post be made a sticky in the forum index page.

Patni wrote:Link to Office order

Here is link on official http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in/ GoI website.

Also Syndicate bank on its official web site has put up this pdf.

Link to PDF by Bank

An account titled “Army Welfare Fund Battle Casualties” has been opened
at Syndicate Bank, South Block Branch, New Delhi (IFSC Code:
SYNB0009055), with account number 90552010165915, which has been
approved by the Integrated HQ of Ministry of Defence (Army) and as per their
approval the donations received in the fund will be utilized to pay financial
assistance/grant to widows of our Battle Casualties, their next of kin and
dependents

chetak
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 04 Oct 2016 20:46

Any half baked, deaf & dumb, brainless and clueless, graduated at the bottom of his class lawyer, would have legally raped the parent organisation and taken it to the cleaners for millions of $$$.

However, this buddhijeevi baboo(n) has simply defeated all with his red tape.

a pox on his family and his filthy tribe.

such cases are usually argued in the SC by the AG himself on behalf of the GOI and against the soldier.



Soldier suffers amputation in a mine blast in enemy's proximity. Reason of rejection of claim by accountants?

This:


Image

arun
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby arun » 06 Oct 2016 12:07

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

arun wrote:Spokesperson of the Dynastic Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress Party, discloses that the Indian Army carried out cross LoC raids in 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2013.

Congress confirms noiseless surgical strikes


Dynastic Nehru Gandhi family led Congress Party gets a sock in the eye.

Former DGMO of Indian Army from 2012 to 2014, Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia, has said that the Indian Army's retaliation post Uri cannot be compared with operations conducted when the Nehru Gandhi family dynasty led Congress Party was at the helm.

Excerpt:

Putting things contextually, Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia said, “I am a soldier and I belong to the Indian Army, which is totally apolitical – dedicated, committed and professional. Now, let us put the surgical strikes in the correct contextual framework. These surgical strikes are in a different domain, they are a defining moment, where all elements of national power, that is the diplomatic, informational, military, economic, political, cultural – have synergised, and for the first time, India has given a befitting response to terrorist operations in the counter-terror domain”. “Having said that, the earlier strikes were not even strikes, they were cross-border operations done at the local level without much planning, without much thought,” he said when asked about Congress’s claims of two surgical strikes conducted at a time when he was DGMO.


From Here:

Former DGMO refutes Congress claims of ‘surgical strikes’ during UPA tenure; says not same as post-Uri retaliation

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nandakumar » 06 Oct 2016 12:27

Chetak
Have a question on the mail on family pension for martyred defence personnel that you posted. If an army personnel dies in the line of duty, the family gets a special pension equivalent to 70% of the soldier's last pay drawn. Would this not be over and above the ordinary pension equivalent to 30% of the last pay drawn? If yes, does this not protect the monthly income if the soldier had lived? Isn't there also an Army Group Insurance plan whereby the family gets a death benefit on the event of the soldier's death?
I am not for a moment suggesting that they get enough and more. I am genuinely curious to know how things actually stack up.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby arun » 09 Oct 2016 12:08

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

The Hindu says that back on August 30. 2011 India commenced a “surgical strike’” code-named Operation Ginger across the LoC. The “surgical strike’” was to retaliate for an attack on a remote Indian army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara on July 30, 2011:

Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control

nandakumar
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nandakumar » 09 Oct 2016 14:05

The Hindu comparison is flawed. It is one thing to retaliate with a cross border raid where the initial provocation was from the Pak army. But quite another thing if the surgical strike is in response to jihadi terrorists. Evidently this is an attempt at UPA- NDA equal equal.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 09 Oct 2016 14:56

The real difference would be the political cover. Did the civilian leadership explicitly authorize the operation or not. It would be despicable on part of the political leaders to expect the jawans to risk their lives but wash their hands off.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 10 Oct 2016 15:08

More for the history section but really good read of the "Baptism by Fire" ops of 9 Para in the 71 war


In 1965, Yahya Khan had been unable to organize the promised breakfast on the Akhnoor Bridge . It remained a BRIDGE TOO FAR. In Spite of overwhelming superiority , OPERATION GRANDSLAM was overall a failure. Even in 1971 though Pakis were able to capture 120 Sq Km of Chamb, this bridge still remained too far. Not because it was heavily defended ( in fact it was totally defenceless) but due to the fact that a group of men with grit got accidently deployed ,TOO NEAR A BRIDGE on the junction of Munnawar Tawi and Sukhtao Nullah .

The first obstacle to to the Paki Offensive on night 03–04 December came in the form of 5 SIKH with the backing of 12 Field Regiment . The Sardars simply refused to pay any heed to the numerical and firepower superiority of the enemy. Their valour and sacrifice against heavy odds , quite well documented , gained vital 24 hours for the Indian Army. Orders were being issued and cancelled on the Indian side every minute and there was utter chaos. However Alpha Group of 9 PARA COMMANDO , found itself at this bridge location on 04 December around 1830 h


http://jagrukbharat.com/5700/indias-spe ... -9-para-sf

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 10 Oct 2016 16:27

From the Same Article above

A bit of foreshadowing of SF fate:

"Sabu was by now quite confident that with 7 KUMAON , Company 9 JAT, Squadron of 72 ARMOUR , and supporting Medium Regiments , the position was quite safe. He also knew that incase he took no action, then after the War, our Infantry School and War College, would start teaching that such defensive tasks were meant for the para commandos. Also at Brigade and Division level they would start quoting this as a precedence and start employing the parachute commandos on such tasks as a regular practice. Parachute Infantry and Parachute Commandos would be treated as the same. So he went to the GOC and asked for commando tasks instead . It was accepted and around 1900 h on 07 December Alpha Group was to leave for Pallanwala"


And the Conclusion: Still so true today :)

he exploits of Alpha Group and the importance of the battle at Chamb bridge is not known to the country which is hardly surprising, as it is not known to the majority of the Indian Army too, past or present. Since not documenting and highlighting this episode in detail cannot be intentional on part of the concerned Formations , we can only blame the then prevailing chaos , confusion and the fog of war. Nevertheless now the story is here for everyone to read and to judge the importance of the battle on their own. The whole feat was achieved by Alpha Group with sacrifice of 3 killed and 14 wounded and in return they were thanked with a LONE SENA MEDAL to Captain M A Cariappa. However , any time Indian Army or Indian Govt can still dial 9 for assistance without any worries .

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Surya » 11 Oct 2016 05:42

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/785019050996867072

Is this the jihadi march?

first Para, now TA :( :( :( :(

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby shiv » 11 Oct 2016 05:59

Surya wrote:https://twitter.com/writetake/status/785019050996867072

Is this the jihadi march?

first Para, now TA :( :( :( :(

I like it :)

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Oct 2016 08:25

Image

Raja Bose
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Raja Bose » 11 Oct 2016 12:12

My respect for Lt Gen Hasnain just went up a few more notches.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Shaktimaan » 11 Oct 2016 20:34

That is a really great article by Lt. Gen. Hasnain. Truly a remarkable soldier and writer.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby shyamal » 11 Oct 2016 21:30

Is there an URL for Gen Hasnain's article?
I would love to read the whole thing.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby jamwal » 11 Oct 2016 22:31


jamwal
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby jamwal » 11 Oct 2016 22:40

EXPLOITS OF MAJOR MEGH SINGH IN CHAMB SECTOR 1965
http://jagrukbharat.com/8490/exploits-m ... ector-1965

INTO THE VALLEY OF THIL INFILTRATED THE MEGHDOOTS, BADALS AND THE MEN FROM KUMAON HILLS :

EXPLOITS OF MAJOR MEGH SINGH IN CHAMB SECTOR 1965

Now they were three officers, Major Megh Singh, Lt Mohinder and 2/Lt S S Sohal, and the fourth one , 2/Lt N K Dubey would be joining them with a platoon at 3 KUMAON Battalion HQ . Thus with 4 Officers, 12 Meghdoots, 50 Badals and 27 Kumaonis , the entire Force comprised just 93 men . In fact later only 25 Badals out of 50 would actually be part of the infiltrating column .

Pakistanis had commenced their well planned offensive in the Chamb Sector on 01 Sep 65 with nearly 6 to 1 superiority over the Indian Forces deployed in the Sector . Major General Akhtar Malik’s Patton tanks initially just smashed through the overstretched thin line of Indian defences but later had to slow down due to fierce opposition. Malik had failed to concentrate his armour for a solid punch towards Akhnoor. Instead he had distributed them over his entire Front . Somehow the Indians held on in areas where they could and in the rest undertook proper retrograde operation. Situation was really precarious for the Indian Army .Finally towards late evening , the IAF too was permitted by the Indian Cabinet to join the war and were able to surprise and severely maul the Paki tanks. Then next day on 02 Sep , Field Marshal Ayub Khan and C-in C General Musa surprisingly decided to replace AKHTAR MALIK with YAHA KHAN . Yaha then promptly and arrogantly extended an invitation to Ayub Khan asking him to come for a breakfast on AKHNOOR BRIDGE on 03 Sep morning. However Brigadier Manmohan Singh, erstwhile BGS of HQ 15 Corps , who had just taken over the Chamb Brigade 72 h back on untimely demise of the previous commander during an artillery shelling , managed to withdraw his Forces in a proper manner and finally stabilized his defences around Akhnoor. By 6th Sep the Indian Army opened the Lahore Front and thus eased further pressure in Akhnoor Sector. By 10 Sep , situation in the Sector had begun to stabilize and by now the newly raised HQ 10 Infantry Division had also moved in to take control of the situation . The 15 Corps Commander ,General K S Katoch had even started thinking of offensive action too.Against this background now Megh Singh with just 68 all ranks was prepared to go behind the Paki Lines and give a TIGHT SLAP to Yaha Khan for his temerity to dream of having breakfast on Akhnoor Bridge .

shyamal
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby shyamal » 11 Oct 2016 23:17

jamwal wrote:http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/toi-edit-page/honouring-faith-and-secularism-in-the-armed-forces-men-who-fight-together-must-pray-together/

Thank you very much.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Ashokk » 22 Oct 2016 21:43

Indian Army team wins gold medal in gruelling Cambrian Patrol exercise
Image
NEW DELHI: A team from the Indian Army's Gorkha Rifles has won a gold medal at one of the most gruelling exercises in the world. Team 2/8 Gorkha was awarded a gold medal in Exercise Cambrian Patrol organized by the British Army.
The British Army in Wales has tweeted a video of the ceremony where the Indian soldiers were awarded the medals. The medal went to the eight men of the 2nd Battalion of 8 Gorkha Rifles.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 22 Oct 2016 21:55

nandakumar wrote:Chetak
Have a question on the mail on family pension for martyred defence personnel that you posted. If an army personnel dies in the line of duty, the family gets a special pension equivalent to 70% of the soldier's last pay drawn. Would this not be over and above the ordinary pension equivalent to 30% of the last pay drawn? If yes, does this not protect the monthly income if the soldier had lived? Isn't there also an Army Group Insurance plan whereby the family gets a death benefit on the event of the soldier's death?
I am not for a moment suggesting that they get enough and more. I am genuinely curious to know how things actually stack up.


Sorry. I missed this. Apologies. :oops:

Special family pension is only for a limited period of time. After that, the pension reduces to normal family pension.

Unless one has all the other infrastructure in place like own house, some savings, already educated children, which BTW, very few folks in the forces are able to do in the limited period of service that they have, life becomes a grim struggle with the meager pension coming in.

There are many widows already in this pitiable state.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nandakumar » 23 Oct 2016 12:31

I remember a conversation with a senior official of HUL, many many years ago. He said that the company's pension policy was that a retiring officer taken together with the annuity value of retirement benefits (leave encashment, gratuity and PF) the pension must equal the last salary drawn! Of course HUL is an extremely profitable company so they can afford it. But the military has a strong moral case for guaranteeing income security to its personnel given the higher risk profile of the job. The Army Group Insurance (AGI) I suspect, is a self-financing thing. Monthly contributions might not be large. In the event, the money that a family gets on the death of a soldier is not very large. Perhaps there is case for the Govt to make additional contribution as a top up contribution to AGI so that the death benefit is closer to the principle of income security for the surviving members of a martyred soldier.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 23 Oct 2016 13:29

One of the biggest grouses with the babus is that they changed their pension to 100% from 50% of last drawn salary and changed armed forces to 50% from 100 %. This is apart from constantly reducing status of armed forces in terms of rank parity and hence emoluments.

And this is for normal pension....for war widows surely we should be paying more than 100% of last salary drawn because you loose the housing, life partner and so much more. No other country on this planet treats its soldiers so badly as we do. Shameful. This is one reason why we as a society and civilization have had such problems with invasions.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Philip » 24 Oct 2016 13:25

http://defencenews.in/article/Indian-Ar ... cise-18872

Indian Army wins Gold medal in gruelling International Cambrian Patrol exercise
Saturday, October 22, 2016
By: TNN

Highlights
The medal went to the eight men of the 2nd Battalion of 8 Gorkha Rifles.
The exercise, Exercise Cambrian Patrol, is regarded as one of the toughest modern tests for soldiers
The exercise consists of a 55-km course that snakes across the Cambrian Mountains
A team from the Indian Army's Gorkha Rifles has won a gold medal at one of the most gruelling exercises in the world. Team 2/8 Gorkha was awarded a gold medal in Exercise Cambrian Patrol organized by the British Army.

The British Army in Wales has tweeted a video of the ceremony where the Indian soldiers were awarded the medals. The medal went to the eight men of the 2nd Battalion of 8 Gorkha Rifles.

"Congratulations to 2nd Btn 8 Gorkha Rifles on their gold medal at #CambrianPatrol. Consistently superb," tweeted the British Army in Wales. The 2/8 Gorkhas then presented a memento, a traditional khukri, to the Brits. The khukri is the central element in the regimental insignia of the Gorkha Rifles.

The Cambrian Patrol is an annual international military patrolling exercise in the rugged Cambrian Mountains of Wales. It is regarded as one of the toughest tests modern soldiers can face.

The exercise consists of a 55-km course that snakes across the Cambrian Mountains. It is a mission and task-oriented exercise, which means the participating team must complete tasks given to them. All this must be done within 48 hours. And the patrol must carry its full personal kit an equipment.

The teams are given points based on the tasks their performances in several military tasks. Any missing equipment in their kits will be replaced by dead weight and the team will lose points. They are assessed on military skills, completion of orders and debrief. Other factors that may be assessed include dismounted close combat skills; obstacle crossing drills; first aid procedures; recognition of aircraft; vehicles and equipment; IED and minefield clearance drills; patrol techniques, prisoner of war (PoW) handling; helicopter drills; media handling; radio communications skills and artillery target indication procedures among others.

The Cambrian Patrol is not a competition. Gold (75 percent), silver (65-74 percent) and bronze (55-64 percent) medals are awarded based on the number of points earned on completion of the gruelling course. Certificates are awarded to teams that finish with lower than 55 percent of the points.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Kashi » 24 Oct 2016 13:40

^^Bakis too have been putting up big hoardings how their mard-e-momin won a gold medal at this competition..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby manjgu » 24 Oct 2016 20:19

7 teams won a gold !!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Kashi » 25 Oct 2016 06:01

That's to be expected as it says

The Cambrian Patrol is not a competition. Gold (75 percent), silver (65-74 percent) and bronze (55-64 percent) medals are awarded based on the number of points earned on completion of the gruelling course.


So whether you earn 75 percent or 90 percent, you win gold only...


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 27 Oct 2016 02:03

Too many issues appearing in the MOD suddenly which are all aimed hurting the standing of the Services.

The 7th CPC anomalies remain unresolved as do carry forward anomalies from 6th CPC. There is the issue of disability pension which has also been sent to Anomalies Committee - it came right after the surgical strikes. And now a new letter has emerged which downgrades standing of officers in Services with respect to civilian officers in Armed Forces HQ. Letter says it is endorsed by RM. There has been a huge issue on SM on this. Parrikar says it happened w/o him knowing. And he'll look into it.

Even someone like Hasnain and Prakash Katoch have come out strongly against these incidents.

RM cannot claim ignorance and then fire-fight every time. He cannot allow babus to run amok like this.

Believe you me, in this day and age of SM, news and sentiments travel far and wide. As do gossips, loose-talk and anger.

There is very strong resentment within the army because of these shenanigans. We can reach a break-point sooner than later. Last thing you want is for some Service Chief to resign in protest against any of these decisions.

It would be grave injustice to a party which is trying to right things on many front. On one hand it is seeing doing the right thing by ordering strikes into Pakistan and on another, we've fiasco like disability pension.

There is enough which needs to be done and can be done w/o fuss. Such initiatives need to be seen and heard by mango-faujis.

And such hit-jobs need to be arrested.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Yayavar » 27 Oct 2016 02:14

What drives the babus to undermine Indian defence personnel?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 27 Oct 2016 02:27

Yayavar: The babus are driven by their rules and regulations. It is ironic - each year we glorify the toppers who excel in their IAS exams. We put them up on a pedestal like as if they are bhagwan. Actually they are fools. Not idiots, but fools. Babus only know how to operate within a set parameter. Take them out of their comfort zone and you will see how dumb Babudom has made them. They undermine the armed forces not because they are anti-national, they undermine the armed forces because they see the armed forces just like any other ministry in India. Everything has to follow a set pattern. A defined set of rules. Thus when Dassault offered to shift the M2K production line to India, the Babu(s) in charge of defence procurement said no way. A multi-vendor situation is required to avoid the appearance of impropriety. The rest is history. Or if there is a whiff of corruption in a deal - proven or otherwise - blacklist the organisation. There was not a single artillery vendor that was not blacklisted by the MoD because of this archaic rule. And thus since 1986, the Indian Army has not acquired a single piece of artillery. It is only recently - in the past week or two I believe - the Govt passed the acquisition of the M77 field howitzer from the US. 30 years dude! 30 bloody long years to acquire new artillery. Mera Bharat Mahaan!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Yayavar » 27 Oct 2016 04:25

right..but what drives 'new rules'? Babus and accountants will surely ensure current rules especially where money is concerned. But it appears as if new set of impositions keep coming up to the detriment of the forces.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 27 Oct 2016 05:11

Don't get the new set of impositions confused with being a new set of rules. This is still the same set of rules. Old wine in a new bottle. That is all.

You can take an Agriculture Secretary and appoint him as the Defence Secretary tomorrow. So while yesterday he was poring over details in the Agriculture Ministry on the cost effectiveness of genetically modified wheat...today he is poring over details on Arjun Mk.2 production. To him, both are viewed in the same prism of thought. For the life of him, he does not know the difference because he has not been trained to do so. He only sees acquisitions through the rules and regulations of Babudom.

So to use the real life example of the MMRCA saga. The Babu who changed it into a multi-vendor situation has long been transferred to another ministry (if not retired by now). You think he gave a second thought as to how this would affect the IAF's force structure? Not at all. Single vendor situation = corruption or at least the perception of it. So make it a multi-vendor situation. EASY!

Everything is an ADMINISTRATIVE procedure. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. That is why it is the Indian Administrative Service.

Narendra Modi describes his first Interaction with bureaucrats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3aykxseVr0

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 27 Oct 2016 06:59

So no discussion on this report on Parrikar after the strikes likening the Army to Hanuman and himself to Jambawan...?

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/manoh ... 40914.html

Lots of angst in the retired folks community..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 27 Oct 2016 12:57

Sachin, I have not seen that in the post. The journalist sounds very biased right from the start. Having said that I am disappointed big time in Parikkar not because of his statements post strikes but because of his kowtowing to bureaucracy and not solving the structural decline and constant smashing of the izzat and status of the forces. This hollowing us out big time and I shudder to think what will happen if this is not reversed asap.

But on his statements against PAK atleast he does'nt say 'people in army uniforms came in' like AKA. AKA was a disaster in 100 ways. Trust me I know of officers who's careers have been smashed because they had the temerity to take professional actions consistent with the safety of their troops and command. Parikkar is also a disaster but not in a 100 ways.
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 27 Oct 2016 13:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 27 Oct 2016 12:58

And remember Sachin, Hanumanji was the figheter and leader, Jambvan was a minister...this is exactly the factual situation (army = Hanuman and a minister = Jambvan). Nothing wrong in this. Retired folks are angry for the other reasons I mentioned and rightly so.

Having said that Parikkar can put his words into action much better by sorting out the mess in the MOD, getting a big hike in defence budget, paying our troops and officers properly, restoring the izzat of the forces and getting weapons in ! Bhagwan Ram spent a long time on preparation before invading and annihilating the enemy. He needs to put his shoulder to the wheel and do some work !

But I am not at all ashamed of or angry with these comments of his.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 27 Oct 2016 16:25

Akshay

Will respond to your post..

But Infantry Day today let's remember the humble infantryman...

We are 2 generations of Infantry....

Just remembering times gone by...


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