Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 28 Oct 2016 16:57

jamwal wrote:What about ammunition ? Such an operation will burn through the stock in a less than 2 weeks. Do we have enough ?

Well it depends on the intensity of fire and the scope...just one sector entire LC or LC +IB .. but yes all scenarios are possible including yours. Your scenario is a full fledged war. I don't want to give an exact number here but I have some idea. Ammo build up has to be done anyway as we were serious short of ammo. But so is the adversary. Jamwal this intensity will only be needed if they also retaliate it escalates into arty duels. They will also face attrition then. OT here but Baba Kalyani is very keen to make arty ammo in addition to guns. Just need a green signal. He can churn it out.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 28 Oct 2016 17:02

rkhanna wrote:Just got a news flash: BSF responds. Supposedly 15 PA Soldiers have been killed.

What ??? You sure ? 15 PA regulars ? What did BSF respond with ?

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 28 Oct 2016 17:20

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
rkhanna wrote:Just got a news flash: BSF responds. Supposedly 15 PA Soldiers have been killed.
What ??? You sure ? 15 PA regulars ? What did BSF respond with ?

Other reports state that this was over last week. Not one strike.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 28 Oct 2016 18:08

Seems like this all happened today

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/10/28 ... n-homepage

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 Oct 2016 18:13

^^ ADG BSF doesn't say that 15 were killed today..

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 28 Oct 2016 18:19

but this NDTV article does say over a week

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/15-pak-s ... eststories

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 28 Oct 2016 21:02

theek hai yaar. `But now we need a quantum jump. Two civilians were killed today.

malushahi · Post by **malushahi** » 30 Oct 2016 17:52

a very meaningful fb post from one of the infantry day celebrations.

Today I want to share a true and a very inspiring story of a Veer Nari Smt Bimla Rana w/o Late L/Nk Inder Rana of 6 Kumaon. The brave heart was martyred during Kargil operations. The Veer Nari was only 21 years old then with two daughters and a son. The eldest Meenakshi was all of six years old. The second daughter Ritu was just 2 1/2 years old and the youngest son Kuldip Was only a year and a half.

The veer nari did not get any support from her in laws and other relatives. She had no place to stay with her three young children. She had no wherewithal to look after her children or educate them.

The Kumaon Regiment runs a war widows hostel at the Regimental Centre at Ranikhet. She approached the Centre Commandant for accommodation in the hostel which was immediately accepted.

Smt Bimla Rana started to re-create her and her children's life. She put Meenakshi in the govt school at Ranikhet. Meenakshi started her education in this Hindi Medium School. She always used to say " main fauj men jaaoonga. Main fauji banoonga."

This used to have a strange effect on Smt Bimla Rana. She used to imagine Meenakshi as a L/Nk of 6 Kumaon like her late husband. Little did she realise that fate had much more in store for her and her children.

Meenakshi kept nurturing her ambition of joining the Army. Smt Bimla Rana would cry in isolation how could a girl become a sepoy. Being uneducated she was unaware of the Women entry scheme. One day in a veer nari welfare meet she discussed her problem with the Centre Commandant's wife. The Centre Commandant's wife arranged a meeting with her husband. The Commandant explained the details of the Women entry scheme to her and said for this Meenakshi needed to study in an English medium school.

Smt Bimla Rana was taken aback by this information. How could a poor uneducated widow afford to get her daughter educated in an English medium school?

But the resolve of Meenakshi kept on motivating her. Meenakshi was an intelligent student. After she completed her fifth class Smt Bimla Rana with the help from the then Centre Commandant got the application for admission of Meenakshi in Ashok Hall Girls Residential School in Ranikhet.

This proved to be a turning point in the life of Smt Bimla Rana and her children. Meenakshi being intelligent cleared her admission test and got admission in Ashok Hall Girls Residential School. She completed her 12th with 90 percent marks and decided to do her graduation from DU. She applied for SRCC and got admission there. After completing her B Com from DU she applied for the Women entry scheme and got through in the first attempt. After completing her training at Officers' Training Academy, Chennai, she got commissioned in the Army Ordnance Corps.

Today I met Lt Meenakshi Rana at Kumaon Regimental Centre with her proud mother, her younger sister Ritu Rana who is pursuing Hotel management from Institute of Hotel Management and Catering Technology, Kufri, Shimla and her brother Kuldip Rana who is pursuing his B Sc from Hansraj College, New Delhi.

I share this inspiring story of a Veer Nari as a tribute to her and salute her.

May her story inspire all veer naris. May L/Nk Inder Rana's soul Rest in Peace and satisfaction. May he shower blessings from heaven to this bravest of the brave Veer Nari and her children.

If you liked this story and feel that it is worth sharing, please do so and let the world know about the firm resolve of this bravest of the brave Veer Naris to settle her and her children's lives.

Jai Hind.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 30 Oct 2016 22:22

Why is the Indian Supreme Court getting involved with the inner workings and administrations of the Indian Army?

I was alerted to this by SHukla's post on this: http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2016/10/i ... es-on.html

For more followup on this, see this: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... ore-posts/

Why the hell is the court getting involved in this? This marks a very dangerous precedent. First Supreme court makes it clear that only itself can appoint and remove its own justices, making it unanswerable to the democratic ideals and the people of India, and now the Court is involving in almost every executive decision including the Army. The supreme court needs to be checked asap and reined in hard.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Oct 2016 22:55

Armed forces' pay-and-rank parity: PMO told defence ministry to get forces involved in policy; MoD did opposite

Armed forces' pay-and-rank parity: PMO told defence ministry to get forces involved in policy; MoD did opposite

Prakash Katoch Updated: Oct 30, 2016

Barely 10 days after the present government was sworn in May 2014, national dailies headlined "PMO tells MoD, MHA: Get forces involved in policy", elaborating that in an attempt to improve the working environment for the armed forces and other internal security outfits, the Prime Minister’s Office has directed the home and defence ministries to ensure that decisions, especially those relating to the uniformed forces, should be taken only after detailed consultations with their top officers.

The news item elaborated that PMO strongly believed matters relating to the armed forces should not be decided by civilian bureaucrats sitting in North and South Block and that the military leadership should be involved more in decision-making.

Above report further added Prime Minister Narendra Modi had signaled: key decision cannot be left to the bureaucrats; forces must be involved at every stage as they have firsthand experience of what is happening on the ground; entire process of procurement of weapons and equipment was deeply influenced by bureaucrats who have virtually no experience in this field.

The news report quoting a senior official added that any new welfare scheme for armed or paramilitary forces gets drafted by a joint secretary or director-level officer will now change and actual operations officers from the forces will have a greater say.

Was that a lip service or did it get lip-locked by the mafia?

It is often asked who are the mafia, for which no simple definition may apply. But remember the open letter by Anil Manibhai Naik, CEO of L&T to the then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that amongst other things said, "And the defence production (ministry) joint secretaries and secretaries of the defence ministry are on the boards of all public sector - sickest of sick units you can think of who cannot take out one conventional submarine out for 15 years now with the result that the gap is widening between us and China and bulk of the time we resort to imports out of no choice," adding, "The whole (defence) industry which could have really flowered around very high technological development and taken India to the next and the next level of technological achievement and excellence is not happening."

Of course, Manibhai would not know that while he lamented about submarines, 15 years were being taken to produce an assault rifle that was no match to top ten of its class available globally.

If you think that was long ago, witness the meeting on 24 October 2016 called by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to meet ex-servicemen wherein he indicated at the outset his hurt at the various mails derogatory towards the "bureaucracy" and requested the veteran community from using such language.

Perhaps he is right and the bureaucracy should be placed on the pedestal given the fact that despite joint secretary's of Ministry on Defence on all boards of the DRDO, DPSUs and Ordinance Factories, India has continued to import 70 percent of its defence needs past several decades. Do you understand now why the reorganisation of MoD and injecting military professional doesn’t happen, why HQ IDS cannot be merged with MoD, why users (military) are not at the design, planning and decision making levels of governmental defence-industrial set up, and why the military must be put down any which way with welfare and prestige of serving, veterans, widows, disabled be damned.

The Defence Minister’s insistence to Service Chiefs to immediately implement 7th CPC that brings military below the CAPF, Service Chiefs decision to wait for the anomalies to be resolved first, MoD’s 30 September letter bringing the disability pension of military drastically down from what was earlier vide 6th CPC and MoD eventually forced to refer the issue to the ‘Anomalies Committee’ has been in the news.

Of course, one part of the forked tongue is tweeting disability pension as per 6th CPC for military personnel have been restored. But whom do you believe and how come the anomalies committee has become so very efficient? Had we become so administratively efficient, even World Bank would not have slammed us for ‘ease of business’. The government versus judiciary feud is in the news, but past several months the Armed Forces Tribunals (AFT) are lying defunct because the post of civilian judge to head AFTs are lying vacant. But with the type of mischief against the military being engineered anyway, why bother about any justice by AFTs.

But look at the misinformation campaign launched about government letter No A/24577/CAO/CP Cell dated October 18 that equated: civilian Group B section officer with army captain; civilian joint director with full colonel (earlier equated with Lt Col); civilian director with brigadier (earlier equated with full colonel); principal director with major general (earlier equated with brigadier). According to media, not only did this letter have MoD approval, objections by armed forces were overruled by the Defence Minister - in a note to MoD in August-September this year, army had “categorically objected to the systematic downgrading of defence officers in status/equivalence vis-à-vis civilian officers”.

Following above expose, another media report emerged quoting MoD officials that the October 18 letter in question downgrading the military ranks vis-à-vis civilian officers was only due to “functional” reasons (also stated by the Defence Minister) which is a very poor excuse because it ‘does’ downgrade military ranks. Will the Defence Minister explain what is the “functional” reason and what are the “non-functional part” of the military-civil relationship, or is it because the military is the only government service that has been deliberately denied the NFU while the balance government services including the civilian defence employees are enjoying the same?

Additionally, while MoD denies any reduction in the military’s status (without cancelling the October 18 letter) and that existing functional equivalence as clarified in 1991 and further reiterated in 1992, 2000, 2004 and 2005 has only been re-affirmed, another media report states that all these letters cited by MoD were superseded in 2009 by a Group of Ministers report (formally equating army colonels with civilian directors) which was approved by the government. So, does the Defence Minister have the foggiest idea that he is being led up the gum tree by his ministry with the explicit aim to create discord in the military establishment through deliberately downgrading military ranks vis-a-vis civilian defence officials?

Now MoD has struck again with approval of Defence Minister by creating two new civilian positions of Additional Director General (ADG) to look after engineering projects in Army’s Northern and Eastern Commands. This policy decision has been taken arbitrarily by MoD - whatever happened to the PMO missive to involve forces in policy decisions? Leave aside consulting the Engineer-in-Chief and concerned Commands, even Service Chiefs were ignored. Without doubt these ADGs will show two fingers to Army Commanders Northern and Eastern Commands; already there have been cases where civilian officers object to official meetings chaired by the Commanding Officers stating they draw more pay and hence it is they who should chair the meeting. That is why these new ADGs are being placed at Jammu and Guwahati instead of being co-located with respective Command HQ. And you guessed it - Guwahati because 7th CPC grants Rs 75,000 monthly hazard allowance to a civilian government official posted at Guwahati and perhaps the guy at Jammu will be quietly given double that amount with Pakistan shelling villages in vicinity of LoC.

Frankly, this whole exercise of creating to civilian ADG posts in Northern and Eastern Commands stinks about money – getting control of funds with (MES) offices and Chief Construction Engineers (CCE) reporting now to these civilian ADGs. There will be automatic setback to functionality and operational requirements of the military as decisions will be taken by bureaucrats sitting in MoD - exactly what PM Modi referred to above. Take the case of the Border Roads directly under MoD and the recent brouhaha of road construction in Arunachal Pradesh. It is all about connecting the villages close to the border. Little is happening about road construction to forward army posts where soldiers still have to walk two-three days to reach them. With the MES offices and Chief Construction Engineers (CCE) going under the civilian ADGs, matters will get worse.

There is fresh news that government is appointing a three-member committee to look into the issue of pay and rank parity with regard to the military. Obviously it would have no military member – perhaps all bureaucrats under the weird logic that if all the anomalies were on behest bureaucrats, they would be best suited to resolve them. The Reddy Commission on OROP anomalies submitted its report to the government three days back; what surprise it holds is not known. But if the government is really serious about resolving the civilian versus military pay and rank parity, the solution is actually very simple – combatize the civilian defence employees; give them military training and make them part of the military. This will also beef up security. NDA-I is considered by far the best for armed forces. Which way NDA-II is heading, readers can decide.

The author is veteran Lt Gen of Indian Army

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 30 Oct 2016 23:42

^^ There is a lot of resentment on yet again sneaky lowering of Armed Forces rank parity vis-a-vis IAS. Sadly PM Modi and RM Parrikar supported this move and refused to entertain any representation on this matter from the services.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 31 Oct 2016 01:05

Woh malushahi I am moved to tears. Jhanshi Ki Rani Ha. God bless her.

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 31 Oct 2016 05:58

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/haryan ... 16843.html

Recommend watching the embedded video in the article. The anger in the people is reaching a tipping point. Something has to give. I don't think anyone gives a fig leaf to nuclear blackmail anymore.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 01 Nov 2016 01:52

tsarkar wrote:^^ There is a lot of resentment on yet again sneaky lowering of Armed Forces rank parity vis-a-vis IAS. Sadly PM Modi and RM Parrikar supported this move and refused to entertain any representation on this matter from the services.

Not true.. Apparently the babus totally blinsided the RM even during the latest press release clarifying the circular by bringing to his notice the various circulars/notifications fron 92, 2003, 2005, 2008 etc. However, they kept him in the dark about the conclusion of a GoM (headed by Pranab Mukherjee) in 2009. After the press release, the forces have brough this to the notice of RM, who then setup a committee to study the old circulars as well as the recommendation of the GoM report on this..

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 16037.html

EVen on the disability pension, RM has 2days ago issued circular that it will be paid as per old %system until the anomalies committee resolves the discrepancies pointed to the RM by the 3Chiefs in their meeting with RM on 13th Sept.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 01 Nov 2016 02:01

rakall wrote:
tsarkar wrote:^^ There is a lot of resentment on yet again sneaky lowering of Armed Forces rank parity vis-a-vis IAS. Sadly PM Modi and RM Parrikar supported this move and refused to entertain any representation on this matter from the services.
Not true.. Apparently the babus totally blinsided the RM even during the latest press release clarifying the circular by bringing to his notice the various circulars/notifications fron 92, 2003, 2005, 2008 etc. However, they kept him in the dark about the conclusion of a GoM (headed by Pranab Mukherjee) in 2009. After the press release, the forces have brough this to the notice of RM, who then setup a committee to study the old circulars as well as the recommendation of the GoM report on this..

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 16037.html

EVen on the disability pension, RM has 2days ago issued circular that it will be paid as per old %system until the anomalies committee resolves the discrepancies pointed to the RM by the 3Chiefs in their meeting with RM on 13th Sept.

Time to show some intolerance. heads should roll.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 01 Nov 2016 02:13

Atmavik wrote:
rakall wrote:
Not true.. Apparently the babus totally blinsided the RM even during the latest press release clarifying the circular by bringing to his notice the various circulars/notifications fron 92, 2003, 2005, 2008 etc. However, they kept him in the dark about the conclusion of a GoM (headed by Pranab Mukherjee) in 2009. After the press release, the forces have brough this to the notice of RM, who then setup a committee to study the old circulars as well as the recommendation of the GoM report on this..

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 16037.html

EVen on the disability pension, RM has 2days ago issued circular that it will be paid as per old %system until the anomalies committee resolves the discrepancies pointed to the RM by the 3Chiefs in their meeting with RM on 13th Sept.
Time to show some intolerance. heads should roll.

There is absolutely no doubt about that..

There has been soooper amount of mischief by babus at various levels since 2014...
Anil Goswami as Home Secy trying to influence CBI probe in Saradha scam to bail out Matang SIngh, Katoch as ED head doing some mischief until he was replaced by Karnal SIngh, MoD babus inserting VRS exeption clause after OROP was cleared etc etc..

There have been more than 3-4 instances of such mischief in MoD including the first clarification after disability pension issue, recent clarification about rank parity issue.. Fair to say RM has been found wanting in trying to get a grip on his beareucracy..

Certainly a huge case to show some real intolerance here..

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 01 Nov 2016 02:26

A close family member happened to meet RM on the streets of going, taking a stroll like a commoner. He had casual chat with this person and his young son. There is hope, for MP has not been bitten by Lutyens bug. I wonder how much time he gets to deal with MOD shenanigans.

wig · Post by **wig** » 02 Nov 2016 10:57

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/locib-fir ... lts-whats/

The LoC/IB and fire assaults : whats this all about? by Lt Gen. S A Hasnain (R)

Over the weekend the most happening thing in the country was the simultaneous Diwali, in the metropolises of India and at the LoC/IB. The former was a happy one with benign lights and sounds while the latter was deadly. Lots of people were hearing the term fire assaults for the first time and social media was demanding to be informed more about this phenomenon. Surgical strikes are passé and fire assaults are in. It is the Indian Army which is these days setting the pace for gaining new knowledge. So here is most of what you would like to know.
What is the Line of Control (LoC) and how does it differ from the International Border (IB); good to know that. It is a delineated line in a disputed area (although India does not consider J&K as disputed, it is only contested) along which the armies of the claimants are deployed in eye ball to eye ball contact without any no man’s land. The LoC runs well east and south of the actual International Boundary (IB) and is the alignment along which the conflict of 1947-48 came to a halt thus creating Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK-often referred as Azad Kashmir, or AK, by Pakistan). Later after 1971 and the Shimla Accord it was delineated under the Suchetgarh Agreement. Unlike the IB there are no boundary pillars (BPs) delineating the LoC. The Indian and Pakistan Armies are in eyeball contact in their various pillboxes and posts all along the alignment but at places terrain constraints may separate the two by two or more km. It is an environment little known to the outside world; here the notion of ‘Grabbers, Keepers’ exists. Translating this into reality it means that any side grabbing a piece of ground for a tactical advantage gets to keep it unless forcibly evicted (recall Kargil 1999). It is the classical extended form of defence where some key defended localities are held in strength and a few others in the vicinity to support them. There exist gaps which are patrolled and dominated by fire and in the context of infiltration, ever since 2004 there exists a continuous LoC fence which is manned 24×7. The gaps are therefore no longer existent but the deployment is in penny packets as the LoC itself is hugely manpower intensive due to the sheer nature of terrain. I can visualize eyebrows being raised with the inevitable question – technology, can’t it replace manpower? The answer is always yes but the constraints of the LoC terrain cannot easily be imagined. Secondly, the deployment of technical resources is expensive and the nation is unwilling to spend on it unless it increases the Defence allocations. Test bed technology demonstrators set up in 2003 are yet to see the light of day.
The IB sector manned by the BSF is a little different. Pakistan does not recognize it as the IB. it calls it the Working Boundary denoting that it is not permanent while for us it is a resolved boundary with nothing contentious. The Army only occupies contentious boundaries where the threat to territory exists. Only in war will it move up its forces to ‘tactically’ occupy the border even as the BSF continues to man peacetime Border Out Posts (BOPs). The word tactically means that deployment may not be bang on the border but such that a planned defensive battle can be fought or an offensive can be undertaken. Manning every inch of territory is irrelevant for that.
That brings us to the real subject, fire assaults. Well, you can use troops to physically attack, destroy and evict the enemy but you will suffer high casualties in the course of doing that. The option of not crossing the LoC exists and could also be a politico-diplomatic term of reference from the government of the day for specific purposes. Yet, if the enemy, including the terrorists, connive to cross the LoC and target our posts and the smaller detachments along the fence and gaps there has to be retribution. After the surgical strikes the expectation would be that the Army crosses over each time there is a contingency. That is tactically not possible and there are other options which the Indian Army is very successfully adopting in the last few days. One of them is fire assaults.
Fire assaults were often used prior to 26 Nov 2003 and also in some selected areas in later years; areas such as Nangi Tekri in the Rajouri/Mendhar sector where infringements have been the order of the day. A fire assault involves the optimum employment of mix of weapons of choice, from small arms and machine guns to mortars, missiles, artillery and direct firing artillery guns over a fixed/flexible duration, with the specific aim of causing destruction and casualties in a given area. The fire assault plan has an allocation of heavy ammunition with timings and sequence of employments as felt necessary and caters for the neutralization against enemy weapons which will be used as response. These fire assaults can be absolutely deliberate or pre-decided and employed during contingencies. The important things are to ensure that the firing is not without aim and the punishment is sufficient for the enemy to pay a penalty for his rash actions. It also presupposes adequate overhead, frontal and flank protection for own troops when they are subjected to the response. The surprise factor is most important in this and the ingenuity and experience of the local commander will come handy in planning, execution and catering for contingencies. Surprise can be obtained and ensured by ingenuous choice for deployment of direct firing artillery guns, roving artillery, use of missiles from concealed locations and misleading the enemy on the deployment of force multipliers.
My recount of an incident in 2008 may help understand the importance of fire assaults. A particular area on the LoC had not been frequented by my troops for some time. When I ordered that the area up to the LoC be dominated to avoid the ground being considered by the enemy as his, the local unit sent a small detachment to a temporary location to dominate the ground by day. On the third day of such deployment a Pakistani sub unit under a young officer attempted to evict them by day using a ploy of white flags while dressed in track suits. It led to a brawl with exchange of fire. One of my men was killed but the presence of mind of the LMG man saved the day as he opened fire and killed seven Pakistanis on the spot. The rest ran to their post. The Commanding Officer (CO), a phenomenally fit officer, rushed to the area by running and climbing at a height of 13000 feet. He took charge and recovered the body of our brave heart. Then he asked me what his orders were. I gave him my decision which was exactly the methodology currently being followed in the last few days. I directed him to destroy the erring post of the Pakistanis from which the officer and his men had emerged to engage our men and any other which interferes with our actions. But I lay the term of reference that the LoC would not be crossed by him or his men. The brave heart CO was true in his commitment and professional to the hilt. He used the firepower of his unit, no artillery to prevent escalation, and employed heavy weapons in a most ingenuous way the entire night. By morning pictures sent to me through multimedia displayed exactly what I wished; the flattening out of the Pakistani post which incidentally was on a lower slope so at much disadvantage; there were many casualties. Not one man from our side crossed the LoC. The brigade commander on the other side was sacked the next day.
Before the ceasefire came into effect in Nov 2003, fire assaults were common, particularly in the Poonch and Uri sectors. The Bofors medium gun is extremely useful for such fire assaults and its USP is the surprise that one can obtain with it. The issue which differentiated the Pakistani fire assault from ours was the unpredictability and ingenuity. Our officers, men, porters and animals all joined into the effort and ideas from different sources, higher and lower were absorbed. Plans were hardly ever repeated.
In an era when the common understanding is that ‘surgical strike’ is the only term in the lexicon of the Indian Army the public may feel surprised to keep learning and absorbing more terminologies which form part of military vocabulary. ‘Fire assault’ is not the least of them.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 02 Nov 2016 12:55

^ Quite informative and illuminating article. Thanks for sharing

The below quote is very thought provoking.

technology, can’t it replace manpower? The answer is always yes but the constraints of the LoC terrain cannot easily be imagined. Secondly, the deployment of technical resources is expensive and the nation is unwilling to spend on it unless it increases the Defence allocations. Test bed technology demonstrators set up in 2003 are yet to see the light of day.

The peril will continue to haunt us if we show no real sense of urgency and purpose in this direction.

Our current dependence on the superiority (numerical and qualitative) of our manpower is, in some way, reducing our brave hearts to the levels of canon fodder somewhat like those mindless jihadi uniformed and non uniformed fanatics across our borders.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 04 Nov 2016 19:04

1. If Banks are saying there's no problem at their end in pension disbursement, it's clearly a wrong statement. I have dealt with multiple
cases of such problems. But that's not to say that Defence Pension Disbursing offices are better, they're a source of harassment too.

there are many instances wherein military record offices, banks & disbursement agencies trouble military veterans and their families
but the Govt & the military as a whole face bad-press and brickbats due to the mischief or lethargy of these agencies. If you want I
can put out a few live and recent examples through a series of tweets, subject to approval of the ones who have faced such harassment +

ok, so here it goes. Chanan Singh, extremely old, granted pension on judicial orders. Bank doesn't care to respond to Army or disburse

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwa7NTuUoAAAkOp.jpg:large

Prem Singh. Pension released last week after a legal notice & this strong letter to DPDO by the Army. Read last lines of Paragraph 2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwa7s3RUkAEvvz1.jpg

Madan Lal, disabled soldier. Disability pension not revised by BANK as per OROP & Govt directions. Amount released after legal notice +

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwa8HNtUsAEPfwO.jpg

Puran Chand Sharma, disabled soldier. Disability pension not released by BANK. Released after legal notice

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwa9NI_UQAAjACE.jpg

Mrs Bakul Sangwan, military widow, despite Govt orders on OROP, bank does not release pension, neither replies to legal notice. Hence+

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwa9NI_UQAAjACE.jpg

folks, stop blaming the Govt for everything. The Govt and many veterans are correct in saying that there are other agencies too who re stalling the release of benefits under various welfare schemes. There are people on social media stating heavy stuff without having practical on-ground knowledge of such issues. Would request personalities of all hues to come together and help in oiling the system so that no veteran or pensioner- civil or military, suffers, without politicizing this very sensitive subject. Disclaimer few cases that I have cited are just the tip of the iceberg. There are 1000s others that I can quote, but these were very recent ones.

https://twitter.com/SinghNavdeep

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Nov 2016 21:52

Honouring our armed forces – a people’s movement inspired by the PM
http://www.opindia.com/2016/11/honourin ... by-the-pm/

This Diwali, there was a special effort from the government to put the soldiers in the forefront of national consciousness. The Prime Minister himself celebrated Diwali amidst troops deployed on the remote frontiers, just as he had for the past two years. In addition, this year there was a drive to connect the soldiers, with people they fight to defend, via the ‘Sandesh to Soldiers’ campaign. People were encouraged to send their message to soldiers via social media and through the prime minister’s website and app, to express their feelings and regard for those who were far away from their homes during the festival, keeping us safe in ours to celebrate. People were also exhorted to light one lamp specially in the memory of the martyrs who had laid down their lives fighting for the nation.

Motivated by the Prime Minister’s call the residents, of 1200 MIG Flats in Rajouri Garden, New Delhi, led by Sanjay Bhatia, a social activist and a team of young boys and girls of the area, decided to take this a step further and honour the ex-servicemen living in their colony as well. On the evening of Deepawali, 30 October, the residents held a gathering in the central park and feted the ex-servicemen residing in the colony. There were several of them, varying in rank from Captain to Colonels, including a Vir Chakra winner. Most of them had taken part in 1962 and 1971 wars, and they narrated their memorable and exciting experiences. Bouquets were present to each officer by the Leader of the House, South Delhi Municipal Corporation of Delhi, Subhash Arya before each resident present lighted a diya for the fighting soldier.

This small gesture by the residents of one colony in Delhi meant so much to those elderly veterans who have been living unknown and unnoticed amidst them for years. Not only did it make them feel special on that day, it also helped the rest of the colony to recognise them. With the result that now, when they step out for a walk in the colony, every single person they encounter exchanges greetings with them.
This is an example of how small initiatives by the government can be taken even further by people themselves. While the government initiatives covered those who were serving, and those who had laid down their lives, a large number of people who served the nation but don’t fall in either category were included in this expression of thanks. How wonderful it would be if this idea is widely propagated, and emulated everywhere across the country. This would bring the people closer to the heroes amongst us, people who spent the prime of their lives in service of the nation, and our now spending the evenings of their lives living amidst us in unnoticed, unsung oblivion.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Nov 2016 21:56

^^Our PM is amazing. His policies can be critiqued or praised, but he puts His country first.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Nov 2016 08:47

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 06 Nov 2016 13:45

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Nov 2016 15:11

jamwal wrote:

How does one identify a PVC winner or rather any veteran or war medal winner on the streets in India? I cant think of pins that one would wear with civvie clothes. I know Gorkhas have Khukri pins ... and some people put stickers on cars.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 07 Nov 2016 09:24

Was this news posted before?

IA to induct Excalibur as interim assault rifle

The Indian Army (IA) plans to temporarily induct locally developed Excalibur assault rifles into service until it shortlists a 7.62x51 mm rifle for import over the next few years, sources told IHS Jane's on 24 October.

Officials said the IA recently asked the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to supply an unspecified 'large number' of prototype Excalibur rifles to conduct simultaneous testing at various locations around the country to hasten the Excalibur's induction.

"Keeping procurement delays in mind, the army has opted to provisionally employ Excalibur for its infantry and specialised counter-insurgency units, which desperately need an assault rifle," military analyst Lieutenant General Vijay Kapoor (retd) told IHS Jane's .

The Excalibur is an upgraded version of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)-designed Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56x45 mm assault rifle, which the army had rejected in 2010 for being "operationally inadequate".

The gas-operated, selective-fire weapon has a foldable butt, a MIL-STD-1913 'Picatinny' rail system for sights, sensors, and bipods. Its polycarbonate magazine is an improvement compared to that of the INSAS rifle, which is known to frequently crack in extreme hot and cold climates.

The IA's years-long efforts to acquire 66,000 assault rifles and licence-build another 200,000-300,000 to meet pressing operational requirements failed in 2015 after none of the competing foreign models - the Beretta ARX160, the Ceská Zbrojovka CZ 805 BREN, the Israel Weapon Industries ACE 1, and the Colt's Manufacturing Company Colt Combat Rifle - were able to meet IA requirements during trials.

These stipulated that each rifle should weigh no more than 3.6 kg and and be able to convert from 5.56x45 mm to 7.62x39 mm merely by switching their upper receiver and magazine for counter-terrorism operations and conventional employment.

Consequently, the IA initially decided to induct Excalibur into operational service in late 2015.

Why only temporarily?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Nov 2016 15:11

Why we must not forget J&K state forces who fought World War I
Kashmir Imperial Service Corps earned not only the title of the most 'reliable' troops, but also 31 decorations.
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/world-war ... /7215.html

UK and other Commonwealth Nations celebrate those who took part in the World War I on Remembrance Day, November 11. In Britain, red poppy paper/plastic pins, symbolic of the battle ravaged fields where nothing else grew except blood-red poppies after the war, are distributed for a small donation by the Royal British Legion. The horrors of war are not easily forgotten but stories of unbelievable heroism also abound. Every year, many wear these red poppy pins proudly as a mark of respect and gratefulness for the brave soldiers.

For Indians, it was a proud moment when this year, a memorial in honour of the Sikh soldiers who fought during World War I, was unveiled at the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire UK, on 1st November. The national WW1 Sikh Memorial statue commemorates the 130,000 Sikh men who took part in the war. This served as a reminder of all the soldiers from the Indian sub-continent, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Gorkhas who travelled across oceans to fight gory battles in foreign and distant lands. Amongst others Jammu & Kashmir, the largest princely state and its state forces also played an important role in the WWI.

The Dogras of Jammu Kashmir, have a century old martial tradition, their history a reflection of who they really are, as a people. The term Dogra broadly refers to the people of the Jammu Region, both Hindus and Muslims including the Jat and Gujjar clans who made up the Forces which founded the State as we see it today, extending its frontiers through military campaigns fought at such treacherous terrains and severe weather that they remain unparalleled in military history. The Bhuttas of Gilgit and the Khakhas and Bamba Muslims of Muzaffarabad district were also enlisted in the Army, as were Sikhs from Punjab in the early days of Maharaja Gulab Singh. The only non state subjects who have contributed to the State's military glory are the Gorkhas who need no introduction. The martial traditions are reflected in folk lore and folk songs. Many Dogri folk songs centre around the themes of love and separation; women pining for their men who were far away fighting wars.

A major portion of the Jammu Kashmir State Forces which comprised of Hindus, Muslims and Gorkhas participated in the First World War. Maharaja Pratap Singh offered three Infantry Battalions and one Mountain Battery for service under the British. Major Dr K Brahma Singh in his book History of Jammu and Kashmir Rifles 1820-1956 says it is surprising but true, that India was unequivocal and united in its support of Britain when the war broke out. The Imperial Service Regiment saw action in East Africa, Palestine and Mesopotamia and won the Battle Honours of Megiddo, Nablus, Kilimanjaro, Beho Beho, East Africa, Palestine and Sharon. During the World War I (1914-1919) the Kashmir Imperial Service Corps not only earned the title of the most "reliable" troops, but the personnel of the regiment were awarded 31 decorations.

The first batch of men left for east Africa on September 16, arriving October 31 at the German port of Tanga. True to their formidable reputation, units of the Kashmir Rifles fought till the last bullet in many a battle. From voluntarily taking up risky assignments to Dogras and Gorkhas of the Force engaging in bayonet charge something not heard of in bush warfare; working their way through mangrove swamps to a sepoy being eaten by a lion as they made their way through the East African Forests; many times the State Forces troops lead from the front and at other times the enemy's attacks fizzled in the face of fire by the Kashmir rifles; escaping after being held as prisoners of war and being cited for their spirit and bravery even as the force was considerably decimated due to illness and injury, the men proved their steels of nerve and did their State proud.

During their two and a half years service in the war in East Africa the two battalions had earned enough laurels which few regiments in the Indian Army can perhaps boast of. The war in Palestine saw two units of the Kashmir Lancers adding to the tally of honours and awards earned during East African Campaign. In fact, General Hoskins pursued the matter of replacement of a JK battalion earnestly, calling the units consistent in their performance and well suited for East Africa.

The way the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir received these men loyal to their King and land, as they returned battle weary and injured, is also a matter of great pride. Maharaja and the people of the state were jubilant and proud. Arrangements on a grand scale were made to welcome the troops at the Jammu Railway Station. Later battalions marched through Jammu City displaying their war trophies which included the German insignia the Brass Eagle and the German flag captured by the 2nd battalion amongst other German artillery.

Thousands of citizens lined the streets and cheered the men on. Some of the extra measures taken by the Durbar during the war included extra allowance granted to families of soldiers serving abroad, grant of free supply of limbs to the disabled, grant of free rations, concession of free travel, grant of wound and injury pensions etc. The wounded were treated sensitively and not made redundant. Suitable jobs were found for them. There was civilian opposition to such lavish grants by the govt on grounds of financial burden but the spirited commander in chief the then Raja Hari Singh was relentless till they were finally sanctioned. Srinagar was later decked up and various events organized to celebrate the end of WWI.

JK state forces and their contribution in the WWI is part of military history now and the rightful place of the Indian soldiers in celebrations honouring the soldiers of WWI well established. As the red poppy shines bright on many lapels in Britain and Canada it invokes images of a Lt Col Raghubir Singh, Lt Col Durga Singh, Sepoy Ganga Ram, Assistant Surgeon Lt Sadhu Narain, Sepoy Bal Bahadur Chhetri, Sepoy Dal Bahadur Thapa, Major Gandharab Singh, Sepoy Hazara Singh and so many more of the JK State Forces. Unforgettable is also the first Indian recipient of the highest gallantry award, Victoria Cross recipient, Khuda Dad Khan, not from the JK State forces but a Dogra Muslim nevertheless, from the Manhas Dogra Rajput clan.

The highest sense of duty making possible unfathomable acts of selflessness, courage and heroism by uniformed men is what strikes awe. Inspiring is the mettle of these men, who wrote chapter after chapter in the glorious military history of the State drawing admiration from both friend and foe.

A fitting ode to the Dogra martial tradition, a legacy which is still alive today thanks to the many Dogra men in the Armed Forces, lies in the following excerpts from a very detailed commentary made on them years ago, in a publication dealing with the background of the WWI which reflects their character:

"The Dogras are among the best fighting material to be found in India. They have a keener sense of national pride and a higher feeling of national integrity than their compatriots of the plains. The Dogra is a shy, reserved man with considerable strength of character. He has a high idea of honour, is very self respecting and makes a capital soldier. They have been long known as brave and faithful soldiers and loyalty to their salt is with them as the breath of their nostrils. Though shy and reserved they are not lacking in the force of character.

More solid than brilliant, they are full of quiet and resolute courage when face to face with danger. Law abiding and well behaved, steady and resolute, though not showy of courage, their virtues shine forth in moments of peril when they will face certain death with a calm and determination to do, before they die."

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Nov 2016 15:31

Kartik wrote:Was this news posted before?

IA to induct Excalibur as interim assault rifle

The Indian Army (IA) plans to temporarily induct locally developed Excalibur assault rifles into service until it shortlists a 7.62x51 mm rifle for import over the next few years, sources told IHS Jane's on 24 October.

Officials said the IA recently asked the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to supply an unspecified 'large number' of prototype Excalibur rifles to conduct simultaneous testing at various locations around the country to hasten the Excalibur's induction.

"Keeping procurement delays in mind, the army has opted to provisionally employ Excalibur for its infantry and specialised counter-insurgency units, which desperately need an assault rifle," military analyst Lieutenant General Vijay Kapoor (retd) told IHS Jane's .

The Excalibur is an upgraded version of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)-designed Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56x45 mm assault rifle, which the army had rejected in 2010 for being "operationally inadequate".

The gas-operated, selective-fire weapon has a foldable butt, a MIL-STD-1913 'Picatinny' rail system for sights, sensors, and bipods. Its polycarbonate magazine is an improvement compared to that of the INSAS rifle, which is known to frequently crack in extreme hot and cold climates.

The IA's years-long efforts to acquire 66,000 assault rifles and licence-build another 200,000-300,000 to meet pressing operational requirements failed in 2015 after none of the competing foreign models - the Beretta ARX160, the Ceská Zbrojovka CZ 805 BREN, the Israel Weapon Industries ACE 1, and the Colt's Manufacturing Company Colt Combat Rifle - were able to meet IA requirements during trials.

These stipulated that each rifle should weigh no more than 3.6 kg and and be able to convert from 5.56x45 mm to 7.62x39 mm merely by switching their upper receiver and magazine for counter-terrorism operations and conventional employment.

Consequently, the IA initially decided to induct Excalibur into operational service in late 2015.
Why only temporarily?

Cause thee ammunition 5.56*45, which lacks stopping power. its dicey , the IA wants to select between

1) 5.56*45- lightweight, versitile, accurate but lacks stopping power at short ranges and range limited to around 500 meters with a normal barrel, LMG 700 meters

2) Russian 7.62*39, Good stopping power at short ranges, good for close combat, but inaccurate beyond 200 meters bullet tends to drop and a relatively heavy bullet

3) NATO 7.62*51 mm used by IA till 1990's in FN-FAL SLR ( russian equivalent 7.62*54), good stopping power and accurate at long ranges, but cumbersome, barrel length is long, ammo is heavy and IA had very bad experience in SL, Kashmir and PUnjab insurgencies in early 1990's where it was very difficult to maneuver the guns in close combat fights with the Long barrels.

To balance this Chinese have gone for 5.8mm *45 mm ammo in their QZB-95. IA has also he choice of 6.8mm *43, which is close to the 5.56mm *45 but being a non standard Ammo I think IA rejected it. Now the thinking is with barrel, recoil and Bullet metallurgy and technology improving, IA can go for a relatively short barreled 7.62*51 mm Nato rifles which can be compatible with Bren Machine guns. The Americans who moved to 5.56*45 in 1960's are moving back to 7.62*51mm, so IA is thinking on similair lines.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 08 Nov 2016 16:06

http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsindia ... ar-AAk2ndj

KINSHASA: An explosion killed a child and injured 32 Indian peacekeepers in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo city of Goma on Tuesday, the U.N. mission there said.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 08 Nov 2016 20:00

Things are getting hot again ...

https://twitter.com/PIB_India/status/795991686069428224

PIB India ‏@PIB_India 16m16 minutes ago New Delhi, India
Prime Minister @narendramodi is chairing a Cabinet meeting at South Block

PIB India ‏@PIB_India 9m9 minutes ago New Delhi, India
PM @narendramodi will address the nation at 8 PM today. The address will be first in Hindi followed by English

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Nov 2016 20:18

The Air Marshal sitting with the other two chiefs is the next Air Chief.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Nov 2016 01:07

jamwal wrote:Why we must not forget J&K state forces who fought World War I
Kashmir Imperial Service Corps earned not only the title of the most 'reliable' troops, but also 31 decorations.
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/world-war ... /7215.html....

That is today known as J&K Light Infantry today?

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 12 Nov 2016 20:46

Bump

(Remembered while making the monthly contribution)

Requesting Mods to please make the original post, by Shri Patni, a sticky if possible

Manish_P wrote:Patni Ji and Vineet Mehta ji

Thank you for bringing this to my notice. I would like to contribute on a regular basis here.

@Mods - Sirs - i would like to request that the below post be made a sticky in the forum index page.

Patni wrote:Link to Office order

Here is link on official http://www.indianarmyveterans.gov.in/ GoI website.

Also Syndicate bank on its official web site has put up this pdf.

Link to PDF by Bank

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Nov 2016 09:48

Some please id this

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Nov 2016 10:04

BTR60 I think.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 16 Nov 2016 10:15

BTR60 on display at Bangalore’s National Military Memorial Park

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Nov 2016 14:15

Thanks all

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 22 Nov 2016 19:11

1 & 2 Arunachal Scouts have been presented with their colours by COAS.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Nov 2016 10:06

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Nov 2016 22:03

X Posted.

Indian Army press release via PIB on DGMO level talks with the Uniformed Jihadi's of Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Aftermath of Indian Army’s Punitive Fire Assaults: Pak DGMO Requests for Unscheduled Talks on Hotline

In an unscheduled Hot Line interaction requested for by Pakistan, Indian Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) Lt Gen Ranbir Singh spoke to his counterpart this evening. Pak DGMO informed of civilian casualties on Pak side by Indian firing along the Line of Control. Lt Gen Ranbir Singh expressed grief at Pak civilian casualties but emphatically stated that retaliatory firing by Indian troops has only been carried out targeting locations from where Pakistan has initiated cease fire violations on Indian Posts. Lt Gen Ranbir Singh expressed his concerns to Pak DGMO on casualties caused to Indian civilians and soldiers due to unprovoked Pak firing.

Indian DGMO further raised the issue of infiltration attempts by terrorists from Pak side into J&K and the un-ethical act of mutilation of the body of Indian soldiers close to the Line of Control by terrorists infiltrating from Pakistan. Pak DGMO was exhorted to exercise strict control on their troops to refrain from any nefarious activities. This would lead to return of normalcy along Line of Control. However, he was categorically informed that if any cease fire violations were initiated by Pak troops or any infiltration attempts were made by terrorists from Pak Occupied Kashmir or territory under its control, it would invite an appropriate response by Indian Army.

Col Rohan Anand, SM
PRO (Army)
(Release ID :154207)

From here:

Clicky