Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 22:36


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 22:40

After Lt Gen Praveen Bakshi complains of ‘malicious campaign’, army chief promises action
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/56523893.cms

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 14 Jan 2017 08:09

From Facebook

Maj Gen Gagandeep Bakshi

I have been deeply disturbed and shocked by what has been going on in the media circus for the last three days. I got a call yesterday from a Pak TV channell. He sarcastically drew my attention to what has been going on for the past few days and asked me to join their show. We have made a tamasha of ourselves before the whole world.The first video had some indications of perhaps a localised command/ administrative failure at unit and sub- unit level. The CRPF and Army video that surfaced has dug up issues that have been around for decades and were taken up till the MoD and descions given.The Army has recently asked for Erstwhile Non Combatant entries to do the job of sahyaks in peace stations. This was turned down as it was felt it would raise revenue budget.We have been told to save and raise and not add to manpower in a situation when the country is facing a youth bulge nad desperately needs too CREATE JOBS.In the battle area there is clearcut need of a buddy system to free the officer for planning operations and adm details as also cater for security. I was amazed to see Times Now channel had brought a set of Disgruntled former NCOs who had been largely sent out of the Army on disciplinary grounds. They were allowed to spew venom against the army and insult a former Army Chief who iswell known and respected as a thorough gentleman.It was an amazing sight.What are our media channels trying to do? Instigate mutinies in our armed services- destroy the officer- men bond of trust?I hope we know the disaster we are bringing down upon ourselves?Indians dont need enemies. They destroy one another. Our enemies are laughing at us today courtsey a media gone berserk. Let us kindly call a halt to this public tamasha and focus on in house audits and corrective measures .For God sakes our institutions built over dacades of hard work are vital. Please dont weaken this country by destroying the cohesion of its armed forces

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby shiv » 14 Jan 2017 08:15

Ever since Ornob left Times Now has turned 180 degrees into a useless NDTV/CNN clone. I have now stopped watching all Indian English News channels SM links are enough

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Singha » 14 Jan 2017 17:13

British era traditions to be upheld dont hack it no more.
Country has changed and so has recruits. Time to rectify.
_____
Yesterday, a video of an army jawan complaining about torture and harassment surfaced on social media.

"I said that it should not be felt that a solder is a helper who will walk memsaab's dogs, wash clothes and do boot-polish," says Lance Naik Yagya Pratap Singh in the video posted on YouTube.

He says after his letter to Prime Minister Narendra Modi and others last year, his unit received a letter asking for an investigation.

"When they found out, there was daily harassment...the brigadier put pressure on me and tortured me to such a level that any soldier would have committed suicide but I didn't," says the jawan, adding, "I appeal to the PM, why are they preparing for my court martial? What is my crime?"

Lance Naik Singh's video comes after similar complaints on camera by a Border Security Force (BSF) jawan and a constable of the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) went viral on social media.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Singha » 14 Jan 2017 17:18

A bunch of these helper type tasks if all felt necessary can be automated out ... banks of washing machines etc. Amrika bahadur has good officer cadre and even in tough places like afghanistan no helper shelpers. World has moved on. Today in itvity people earning crores sit and eat in same dining hall same food and same plates as the cleaners and drivers.

The good gen quoted wants another huge cadre of domestic servants under the guise of job creation.

Same for ias ips and other official classes. Pay well and they can keep pvt paid workers if want but not as a official perk to get retinue of staff

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jan 2017 00:43


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jan 2017 01:36

Do we really understand the Officer-Jawan Relationship
https://readxp.com/thoughts/really-understand-officer-jawan-relationship/



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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 15 Jan 2017 11:31

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Kakarat » 15 Jan 2017 20:54

Army Day parade 2017

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 15 Jan 2017 21:35

Dhruv WSI correct?


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 16 Jan 2017 16:23

Regarding Lt Gen Bakshi's speech

Transcript of speech is available in the link posted above.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 16 Jan 2017 17:01

link

Behind these charges lay an even murkier story relating to the deaths of three informants allegedly by military intelligence officials, one of whom was reportedly close to another former chief JJ Singh who it has been alleged wanted to manipulate the line of succession to deny VK Singh his turn to be chief.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby abhishek_sharma » 16 Jan 2017 18:06

ABP News ‏@abpnewstv · 2m2 minutes ago

MHA not convinced with #BSF's report on #JawanViralVideo, asks BSF to send fresh report with clarification on several points within 48 hours

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Philip » 16 Jan 2017 19:15

Something is rotten in the top echelons of the IA,from the salacious gossip and authentic remarks made by the overlooked sr. general,etc. ,and we have the VKS past experience as well.The politicisation of the armed forces has been an alleged insidious inside job by MOD babus who have since Independence been determined to bring down the pecking order protocol of the armed forces and manipulate willing officers.The stakes being v.high with so many lucrative defence deals to the tune of tens of $billions.The NDA-2 should clean up the MOD and stick to tradition and convention as far as possible,so that a war to succeed does not blight every branch opf the services.


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 16 Jan 2017 21:06


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jan 2017 04:50




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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Neshant » 17 Jan 2017 12:50

If Dhanush is working, why are they hurriedly importing howitzers from Umrika for half a billion dollars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvrpnyB6BR4

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Viv S » 17 Jan 2017 13:05

Neshant wrote:If Dhanush is working, why are they hurriedly importing howitzers from Umrika for half a billion dollars?

I'm sure a simple Google would have given you the answer. As for the 'hurriedly' part, the acquisition process for the M777 began in 2008.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Neshant » 17 Jan 2017 15:47

Viv S wrote:I'm sure a simple Google would have given you the answer. As for the 'hurriedly' part, the acquisition process for the M777 began in 2008.


Nothing happened in 2008.

I'm talking about the recent hurried moves to purchase even more foreign guns.

BAE Systems Receives $542 Million Contract for India M777 Howitzers

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... ract-India

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Jan 2017 18:06

at high altitude most humans struggle to feel taste or sometimes lose appetite... but still require a lot of calories to function
not surprised that soldiers complain of the food not being tasty - but this is not a 'neglect' issue as such

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 17 Jan 2017 18:32

Neshant wrote:If Dhanush is working, why are they hurriedly importing howitzers from Umrika for half a billion dollars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvrpnyB6BR4


Because both of them are in different class, no? One is 14 ton while the other under 4 tons in weight.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby nandakumar » 17 Jan 2017 21:02

Lalmohan wrote:at high altitude most humans struggle to feel taste or sometimes lose appetite... but still require a lot of calories to function
not surprised that soldiers complain of the food not being tasty - but this is not a 'neglect' issue as such

Forget about high altitude. I have tasted MTR, Aashirwad and a host of other aluminium foil packed vegetable side dishes the technology for which were initially developed by Mysore's CFTRI. They are somehow not as tasty as freshly cooked dishes by even road side eateries. So that is the reality.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jan 2017 21:48

neshant, in addition to what rohit said...the M777 howitzer can be slung under a Chinook (see image below). I am not sure if the Chinook can lift a 14 ton artillery gun. The M777 is perfect for the mountain corps that is being raised.

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby brar_w » 17 Jan 2017 22:01

Neshant wrote:
Viv S wrote:I'm sure a simple Google would have given you the answer. As for the 'hurriedly' part, the acquisition process for the M777 began in 2008.


Nothing happened in 2008.

I'm talking about the recent hurried moves to purchase even more foreign guns.

BAE Systems Receives $542 Million Contract for India M777 Howitzers

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... ract-India


What you read in that report is the process moving to its final phase i.e. contract award. The process starts with a request from the GOI to GOTUS on a particular weapons systems. Once technical details are provided the GOTUS must inform Congress of a potential deal based on a communicated request from a foreign Military. This the GOTUS does through an FMS notification.

Within each FMS notification they generally tend to include an absolute maximum amount (including any options) of weapons being considered at that point in time. If the Congress has no objections the US Government begins to negotiate with the foreign government on the details of a potential contract. If the FMS request is in relationship to a competition and the US equipment has not been selected in further discussions than the FMS deal simply dies out.

Concurrently, the foreign government begins to negotiate with the OEM for any non FMS related commercial obligations (such as offsets, domestic tie ups etc). Only once all that is hammered out does the GOTUS reach out (on behalf of the Foreign Military customer) to contract out the weapon system. Under the FMS the program execution is managed by the US armed service that the system caters to, and it's program office.

You're link provides a news report on the final contract being awarded to BAE by GOTUS after all this background work has been performed. It represents a culmination of a long acquisition process known as the FMS.

The FMS notification is itself dated January, 26 2010 and the process to acquire these weapons likely started years earlier.

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/in ... owitzers-0

The very first google search hit tells you all this - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=India+M777+ultra-l ... +howitzers
Last edited by brar_w on 18 Jan 2017 00:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Jan 2017 22:13

nandakumar wrote:Forget about high altitude. I have tasted MTR, Aashirwad and a host of other aluminium foil packed vegetable side dishes the technology for which were initially developed by Mysore's CFTRI. They are somehow not as tasty as freshly cooked dishes by even road side eateries. So that is the reality.


well saar, military long life rations never taste good, unless ofcourse you've spent the night in freezing wet conditions and at day break a hot stew of everything in the packet all at once is brewed up :-)

long life rations will never taste as good as freshly cooked - they will have additives and preservatives and be pasteurised, etc. that definitely alters the taste

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Indranil » 17 Jan 2017 22:22

I have read this a million times and even heard Parrikar say it that the Chinook can carry the M777 underslung. But to what altitudes?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ashishvikas » 18 Jan 2017 01:26

After Waiting For Decades, Army Jawans To Finally Get Their First Modern Helmet - Vishnu Som

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exclusiv ... et-1649923

Can these MKU Helmet take hit from AK47s ?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Neshant » 18 Jan 2017 02:44

A M777 weighs 4,200 kgs. The M198, the M777's predecessor weighs 7,154 kg. The Bofors FH77B currently in the Indian Army weighs 13,100 kg. The OFB+DRDO-ARDE Dhanush Howitzer, being acquired to replenish the dwindling Bofors FH77B numbers, is said to be 2 tons lighter than FH77B.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-that-In ... cification

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Indranil » 18 Jan 2017 03:27

I have no problems in seeing the utility of light howitzers along our northern borders. I just don't see Chinooks carrying them till there. According to this graph, I don't think they can hover much above 12000 to 13000 feet carrying a M777.

Added later: Found out that under hot and high conditions, the Chinook is cleared to carry the M777 to 4,000 feet.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Kakkaji » 18 Jan 2017 04:40

'Deployable by Helicopter' is just sensationalism. But even when transported by road, a lighter howitzer is much easier to transport and deploy than a heavier howitzer. I think the bulk of the M777 with IA will be transported by road to their deployment in the northern mountains.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Neshant » 18 Jan 2017 04:48

How will they transport the ammunition is the better question.

Surely not by helicopter.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ShauryaT » 18 Jan 2017 07:38

Indranil wrote:
Added later: Found out that under hot and high conditions, the Chinook is cleared to carry the M777 to 4,000 feet.
The M-777 weight is about what the Mi-17V5 can carry, how high in hot conditions with that weigh, do not know but normal operations state that it can go to 6,000 meters. I fully expect some Jugaad in the upcoming years to manage the edge weights and a demonstration of this capability.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby shiv » 18 Jan 2017 08:17

Indranil wrote:I have no problems in seeing the utility of light howitzers along our northern borders. I just don't see Chinooks carrying them till there. According to this graph, I don't think they can hover much above 12000 to 13000 feet carrying a M777.

Added later: Found out that under hot and high conditions, the Chinook is cleared to carry the M777 to 4,000 feet.


The data may not be as crystal clear as that. I got the table from the linked pdf below
http://www.147thhillclimbers.org/hill_s ... 202014.pdf

We are getting the CH 47F. The CH 47 D in the table is cleared to carry 15,800 lb to 4000 feet at 95 deg F. Most helo flying in the Himalayas is done in the mornings - and even in summer the ambient temps are lower than 75 deg F at that time. The capability to lift an M777 is probably far better than 4000 feet.

Image

The Link below is "reassuring" but no data
http://inwww.rediff.com/news/report/why ... 160903.htm
IAF pilots tell Business Standard that the Chinook's best feature, given India's high Himalayan border, is its superb high-altitude performance.

Boeing pilots in Philadelphia recount flying a Chinook over the top of Mount McKinley in Alaska -- America's highest mountain at 20,300 feet.

Its power allows the Chinook to air-transport a 155-millimetre howitzer, hanging from a sling under the helicopter.

This lets tactical commanders move artillery guns to inaccessible areas, providing crucial fire support to troops in extreme altitudes.


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