Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 22 Oct 2017 09:15

My salute and respect

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 22 Oct 2017 11:36

My respects to the departed warrior. He killed 3 terrorists when they were ambushed in Kupwara. My gratitude to his family also (His father also served in the IA)

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Oct 2017 11:59

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 27884.html

Centre approves Rs 40,000 crore for Army to directly buy weapons for ‘short and intense war’
By Pradip R Sagar | Express News Service | Published: 12th July 2017 11:22 PM |

NEW DELHI: Amid tension on borders with Pakistan and China, the Centre has allowed the Army to make ‘emergency procurements,’ without going through the red-tape, to be prepared for a ‘short and intense war’.

A notification issued by the government last week empowered Vice Chief of the Army to make hardware procurements up to Rs 40 thousand crore to meet critical deficiencies. Army has identified critical deficiencies in 46 types of ammunition and certain spares for 10 types of weapon platforms.

According to Defence Ministry sources, after the Uri attack, an internal audit was conducted to review Army’s preparedness.

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Though the Special Forces carried out ‘surgical strikes’ 10 days later, the audit exposed several lapses in Army’s critical procurement in order to fight a ‘short and intense war’— that would last 15 days.

ALSO READ:
India of 2017 more equipped to deal with China: Minister of State PMO

Even Prime Minister Narendra Modi, during last year’s interactions with top military commanders, had said prospects of full-scale wars would be rare and future battles would be short and intense and need to be fought with clinical precision. Hence, soon after Uri attack, Army made emergency procurements worth `12,000 crore through 19 separate contracts — 11 of which were exclusively on ammunition and spares.

“With this notification, Army does not have to go through the Defence Acquisition Council or Cabinet Committee on Security. All purchases under the category of emergency procurement will be done at the office of the Vice Chief of Army,” said a ministry official.

The government feels the Army should be made self-sufficient to meet its own requirements, they said, adding that the Navy and Air Force would be given similar powers soon.

Now, China wants to be the mediator on Kashmir, between India and Pakistan

China has offered to mediate between India, with which it’s currently engaged in a border standoff, and Pakistan, its ‘all-weather friend’ where it has invested millions of dollars in building an economic corridor, to resolve the ‘conflict’ in Kashmir. “The situation in Kashmir has attracted the attention of the international community,” China’s Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday. The statement came days after the Chinese government’s mouthpiece media said, “India’s logic in stopping the Chinese military from constructing a road in the Doklam area of Sikkim sector on behalf of Bhutan can be applied to Kashmir as well.”

ALSO READ: China to downsize army to under a million in biggest troop cut

“The conflict near LoC would not only impact peace and tranquillity of India and Pakistan but also affect the region,” Beijing said on Wednesday. Interestingly, the offer comes from a nation that has standing border or territorial disputes with almost every neighbouring country.

ET Xcpts:

The broad process to acquire around 7 lakh rifles, 44,000 light machine guns (LMGs) and nearly 44,600 carbines has been finalised and the defence ministry is on the same page with the Army in moving ahead ...

In June, the Army had rejected an assault rifle built by the state-run Rifle Factory, Ishapore, after the guns miserably failed the firing tests.
The procurement of assault rifles has witnessed significant delays due to a variety of reasons including the Army's failure to finalise the specifications for it. The Army needs around 7 lakh 7.62x51 mm assault guns to replace its INSAS rifles.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/61318602.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 31 Oct 2017 20:32

Army to build Mumbai bridge, Oppn slams move

NEW DELHI: The Maharashtra government's decision to rope in the Army to construct a bridge in Mumbai's Elphinstone Road train station, the site of a deadly stampede which claimed the lives of 23 people last month, is facing backlash from the opposition.

Earlier today, chief minister Devendra Fadnavis announced that the Indian Army's engineering wing will design and build new foot overbridges at Elphinstone Road and two other train stations by January 31, 2018. Flanked by Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and Railways minister Piyush Goyal, Fadnavis surveyed the Elphinstone Road station to take stock of the improvement works in progress post-stampede.

"After Elphinstone stampede incident, we had asked for help from armed forces and Defence Minister. She agreed to help us and three bridges will be constructed by 31 Jan," said Fadnavis, while addressing mediapersons.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Nov 2017 11:08

Ashokk wrote:Army to build Mumbai bridge, Oppn slams move
NEW DELHI: The Maharashtra government's decision to rope in the Army to construct a bridge in Mumbai's Elphinstone Road train station, the site of a deadly stampede which claimed the lives of 23 people last month, is facing backlash from the opposition.

Earlier today, chief minister Devendra Fadnavis announced that the Indian Army's engineering wing will design and build new foot overbridges at Elphinstone Road and two other train stations by January 31, 2018. Flanked by Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and Railways minister Piyush Goyal, Fadnavis surveyed the Elphinstone Road station to take stock of the improvement works in progress post-stampede.

"After Elphinstone stampede incident, we had asked for help from armed forces and Defence Minister. She agreed to help us and three bridges will be constructed by 31 Jan," said Fadnavis, while addressing mediapersons.

I thought that the lady had more sensitivity and common sense than this. She does not seem to understand or even appreciate the ethos of the Army.

modi should understand the one universal truth, as you sow, so shall you reap.

What next?? Build and operate public toilets??

Defence Minister Falls To A New Low With Ridiculous 'Clean The Garbage' Order To The Army

Apparently this was done at the behest of PMO to clean up garbage left by tourists in high altitude areas and other sundry instructions regarding cleaning up military stations, cantonments and bases. These orders are absurd, to put it mildly.

Obviously, no one has reflected on some similar orders that had been issued in the late 1950’s that eventually resulted in the 1962 fiasco, as outlined in the succeeding paragraphs.

Project Amar (construction of barracks and family accommodation by troop labour) was carried out at the behest of the then RM-Krishna Menon, despite objections by the then Army Chief – General KS Thimayya, and were implemented by the ambitious Bijji Kaul, then GOC 4 Infantry Division at Ambala. The result was no training by the Division for war.

Even when the Division had been ordered to move to NEFA (now part of Arunachal Pradesh), plans were made by the then RM for Project Amar II, which were mercifully jettisoned at the behest of the Army hierarchy. When the war with China erupted in 1962, it was this very division that was annihilated. One need not go into any more details, except to say that if you use the armed forces for carrying out non-military tasks, the result is catastrophic.

Our northern borders continue to be in dispute. Hopefully, the sterling role played by the army in handling the over 70 days stand-off with China’s troops in the area of Dokalam only recently must be fresh in everyone’s mind. It ended well as our troops were well trained and well lead. Everyone agrees that till the border problem is solved, such incidents will continue. Yet, the mandarins sitting in the PMO have issued a stupid and illogical order stating that the army will clean litter left behind by uncaring tourists in high altitude areas, obviously abandoning their operational tasks and training. It is the dumbest order I have heard in the last half a century, if not more. The MoD as usual has acted as postmen and forwarded it to the armed forces and the new RM has publicly announced it during her maiden visit to Western Command!

The authority of the civil administration extends to the remotest corners of the country and includes the entire stretch of all land borders of India. It is the job of the civil administration to administer all assigned areas under their control. Why are they first not ensuring that no tourists leave any litter and if they fail to do so, they have the resources, funds and authority to clean up. The armed forces, both in field areas, peace stations and different types of bases have always kept their habitat clean, green and hygienic. They are actually models for the civilians to emulate. So why have such orders/instructions been issued?

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 02 Nov 2017 03:16

^^ India has a serious problem with Bureaucrats who are indulging in acts of commission and omission and willfully blocking project while hiding behind a random rule and clause. This causes delays of multiple years and literally thousands of crores of rupees in cost over-runs.

The platform bridge at Parel/Elphinstone station was sanctioned by the rail ministry 18 Months back and not even the spade work for issuing of tender was initiated by the officials in spite of multiple warnings about possible stampede by various agencies and activists.While the bridge construction by Railway contractors was to take 8-12 months of time for completion, Army is going to complete the same in less than 90 days.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Nov 2017 16:38

Vips wrote:^^ India has a serious problem with Bureaucrats who are indulging in acts of commission and omission and willfully blocking project while hiding behind a random rule and clause. This causes delays of multiple years and literally thousands of crores of rupees in cost over-runs.

The platform bridge at Parel/Elphinstone station was sanctioned by the rail ministry 18 Months back and not even the spade work for issuing of tender was initiated by the officials in spite of multiple warnings about possible stampede by various agencies and activists.While the bridge construction by Railway contractors was to take 8-12 months of time for completion, Army is going to complete the same in less than 90 days.

Railway contractors, like all contractors, build stage by stage.

Maybe, waiting for their bills to clear stagewise is what causes the delay. Greased palms further add to their woes causing them to pad their bills to "offset" losses.

The actual time in construction may be the same 90 days for all, give or take.

It is an extremely foolish and humiliating decision and what has it set out to prove??

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Nov 2017 16:53

This is one article that reports on the treatment meted out to the Forces vetrans.

The press has completely blacked out the agitation that has been ongoing for some years now ever since this govt has come into power. This is but one in a long list of shameful incidents perpetrated by this govt. They have used the dilli police to repeatedly beat up women and old men. Even rundi TV, otherwise ever ready to embarrass the govt has willingly blacked this out and all other such news.

A SORRY TALE OF THE ARMED FORCES

Thursday, 02 November 2017 | Anil Gupta | in Edit

A sorry tale of the Armed Forces

The treatment meted out to peacefully agitating Army veterans at Jantar Mantar is symptomatic of a growing civil-military divide. Such incidents impact the morale of serving soldiers

Whatever may be the merits/demerits of the ongoing agitation by a group of veterans at the Jantar Mantar in Lutyen’s Delhi, the treatment meted out to them at the hands of the Delhi police on October 30 will be recorded as a dark day of Indian democracy. The Armed Forces are the last bastion of the nation and have been mandated by the Constitution to not only safe guard the nation but the Constitution as well. Armed Forces’ veterans form a pool of trained and disciplined manpower, are engrained with nationalism, which needs to be treated as an asset rather than a burden.

The Armed Forces form an important pillar of national strength and its members willingly forego many fundamental rights, basic necessities of a dignified life in order to safeguard the nation’s frontiers. Members of the Armed Forces take an oath of allegiance to the Constitution which no other Government servant does, indicating that they are a class apart. They are called Commissioned Officers and their parchment of Commission is signed by the President as their Supreme Commander. The Constitution also mandates them to carry their ranks with them even after retirement. The Constitution also recognises the uniqueness of the Armed Forces and its members, both serving and retired.

Alas, the organs of the Government do not recognise the same. Otherwise, how could the Delhi police treat the veterans, ladies and veer naris in the manner they did in front of live cameras? The same police is the first to disappear whenever a serious law and order problem occurs and at the drop of the hat, the Army is called in to rescue them and handle adversity. But against the peaceful veterans, the police came out with vengeance, at whose behest is the question agitating the mind of those who saw a sheer display of arrogance, rudeness, disrespect and brutality?

The veterans have dedicated the best years of their life for the service of the nation and expect nothing but respect and dignity when they return home having risked their life almost on daily basis when in service. Their courage, discipline, sense of sacrifice and love for the nation needs to be imbibed in every citizen if we desire to become a super power. At the same time, ill-treatment to them can have long-term implications on national security.

One should not lose sight of history. What happened in the US after the World Wars is a matter of study regarding the treatment to veterans by a nation, however mighty it may be. Bonus Army was the name given to a group of World War I veterans, who marched on Washington, DC, during the summer of 1932, demanding immediate payment of cash bonuses promised to them by Congress eight years earlier vide World War Adjusted Compensation Act 1924. The then US President, Calvin Coolidge, vetoed the Bill providing for bonuses stating, “Patriotism, bought and paid for, is not patriotism.”

Congress, however, overruled the veto. The bonuses were to be paid in 1945 on the respective birthdays of the veterans. On June 15, 1932, the lower house passed a Bill to move up the payment date of veteran’s bonuses which was defeated by the Senate. Veterans protested peacefully but the police reacted violently, resulting in the death of two veterans. Meanwhile, more veterans had moved in with their families and were staying in well-laid out camps around Washington DC. On July 28, 1932, President Herbert Hoover ordered the US Army to clear the bonus Army camps and disperse the protestors. The US Army crackdown resulted in injuries to 55 veterans and 135 were arrested. In the 1932 election, Hoover was defeated by a landslide vote by Roosevelt. Hoover’s militaristic treatment of the veterans had contributed to his defeat. Sacrifices of the veterans in 1932 contributed towards the enactment of the GI Bill-1944, which has since assisted thousands of veterans, who make the often difficult transition to civilian life and in a small way pay back the debt owed to those who risk their lives for their country. There are many similarities in the bonus Army episode and the ongoing struggle of the veterans. History knows no borders and often repeats itself!

In this era of electronic and social media which has penetrated all frontiers, news travels instantly to the farthest corners. Police action against veterans can lead to alienation of a large segment of disciplined and patriotic people. It will definitely adversely impact the morale of serving soldiers. It is not only that today’s serving soldier is tomorrow’s veteran but today’s veterans are also fathers, grandfathers, uncles and other relatives of the serving soldiers.

The blood of those who would have watched the high-handedness of the police or read about it must be boiling but the discipline engrained in them prevents them from reacting. But can it be taken for granted? Any amount of money spent towards modernisation of the Armed Forces cannot compensate for the morale of the man behind the gun. It is ultimate and the nation has watched the grit, determination and high morale of the Indian Army soldier on the barren and daunting heights of Kargil. Can the nation afford to have the morale of its soldiers in their boots? Imagine the impact it would have on national security. Will any young man, who would have watched the police’s brutality against the senior retired officers, ladies and veer naris, be ever motivated to join the Armed Forces? The answer again is obvious.

The Armed Forces will soon become a home for those who had no other option left for employment or a Government job. Will it then remain the last bastion as envisaged in the Constitution? Input directly contributes to the output and if the Armed Forces fail the nation in future, will the responsibility for their downslide be owned by the political leadership or the bureaucracy?

Civilian control of the Armed Forces does not imply control by those in civvies. In the garb of civilian control, the bureaucracy in India is trying to control the Armed Forces by negating their uniqueness as enshrined in the Constitution. In fact, the Jantar Mantar is the manifestation of growing civil-military divide in our country which every successive Government has contributed towards its widening rather than bridging the gap. The state of affairs is not only saddening but alarming. The bureaucracy is hell bent to downgrade the status and financial equivalence of the Armed Forces which becomes obvious with every Pay Commission report ever since the third Pay Commission.

The Armed Forces form 30 per cent of the Government’s work force, yet they are not represented in any Pay Commission. This only displays the disdain with which every successive Government has treated them. Serving soldiers and veterans are only demanding their due and not looking for any extra ordinary largesse, they are fighting for izzat and status that has been continuously eroded by babudom in Delhi.

The warrant of precedence is tweaked to suit convenience of the babus. A Major General was equated to a joint secretary with 30 years’ service. The 30-year clause has been conveniently removed and, today, a joint secretary with 18 years of service equates himself with a Major General. Nowhere in the world is the police allowed to wear the badges of ranks of the Army except in our country to achieve a false sense of equivalence. The most ridiculous is an attempt to equate the ranks with the AFHQ services cadre which was raised as a subordinate support cadre to assist the Armed Forces officers so that the availability of serving officers in active units is not affected. How can commissioned officers be equated with any other service, let alone a subordinate service?

It goes to the credit of the present Government to grant One Rank One Pension which previous Governments denied. There was certain dissatisfaction in some quarters and the Government accepted that certain anomalies exist. The Justice Reddy Commission was appointed in 2016 which submitted its report in November that year. Alas, the contents of the report are yet to be made public. The neglect is hurting the veterans, eroding the credibility of the Government and adding to the widening civil-military rift. Ministry of Defence, which is supposedly the custodian of the interests of the Armed Forces, is the most distrusted organ of the State as far as the serving soldiers and veterans are concerned. The distrust is not ill-founded but is backed with substantial acts of omission and commission. The Government needs to act post-haste to stop this trend and act as per various reports submitted concerning the revamping of MOD and integration of Armed Forces HQ with it. It would be appropriate to sum up with this couplet, ‘Gunah Karke Saza Se Darte Hain, Zahar Pee k Dawa Se Darte Hain, Dushmano ke Sitam Ka Khauf Nahi, Hum Toh Apnon Ki Bewafai Se Darte Hain.’

(The writer is a Jammu-based political commentator, columnist, security and strategic analyst. He can be contacted at anil5457@gmail.com)

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Nov 2017 17:21

^ In this I don't think it's just the Bureaucrats. The GOI is working together on this.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Nov 2017 17:44

Received by whatsapp

THE MILITARY, POLICE AND THOSE IN BETWEEN

By

Maj Gen VK Singh

When India became independent in 1947, there were only two agencies responsible for security, the military and the police. In addition, there was the Intelligence Bureau (IB), which looked after intelligence, both internal and external. In the intelligence segment, the situation remained unchanged for the next thirty years or so until the creation of a separate agency for external intelligence, the Research & Analysis Wing (RAW) in 1968. Subsequently, another agency known as the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) was formed in 2004 for acquisition of technical intelligence.

In contrast to the intelligence sector where the number of agencies increased from one to three, there has been an exponential increase in the number of agencies responsible for security. Today, there are virtually dozens of organizations providing security, often with overlapping responsibilities. What is worse, there seems to be utter confusion in the nomenclature and the charter of duties of these agencies.

The organisation that is primarily responsible for the nation’s defence against external threat is the military, which includes the three Armed Forces of the Union – the Army, Navy and Air Force. The police is primarily responsible for maintaining law and order, thus providing internal security. In addition to the military and the police, there are two other organizations that play a role in security. These are the para military forces (PMF) and the central armed police forces (CAPF). It is in respect of these that the confusion prevails, not only in the minds of the public but also the media and the bureaucracy. To end the confusion, the Ministry of Home Affairs issued an Office Memorandum on 18th March 2011, with the subject title:Adoption of new nomenclature of Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs). It clarified that the term Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs)will be used when referring to the Border Security Force (BSF), Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) and Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB).

In spite of the above clarification, the organisations mentioned in the MHA letter continue to be referred to as Para Military Forces (PMFs) by newspaper correspondents, bureaucrats and politicians. In fact, there are only two PMFs – the Assam Rifles and the Special Frontier Force (SFF). An easy way to distinguish between the PMFs and the CAPFs is that the former are always commanded by Army officers while the latter are commanded by IPS officers. The DG Assam Rifles is a Lieutenant General while the IG SFF is a Major General.

Surprisingly, the confusion about the distinction between CAPFs and PMFs prevails even among senior police officers themselves. After the violence that erupted in Panchkula on 25th August in the wake of the sentencing of Baba Ram Rahim, the city Police Commissioner, Mr AS Chawla, tweeted that it was the para military forces and not the Indian Army that helped state police in controlling unruly dear followers. He followed this up with an interview to Hindustan Times reporter Vivek Gupta which was published in an article in Hindustan Times, which went on to state that the para military forces includes Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB), and Border Security Force (BSF).

In fact there were no PMFs deployed in Panchkula. The forces that assisted the police were all CAPFs. Apart from his ignorance about the nomenclature of the forces involved, Mr Chawla’s remarks are ungracious, to say the least. In addition to several news channels that showed the police and CAPFs beating a hasty retreat, several eye witnesses have categorically asserted that it was only after the arrival of the Army that the violence was contained.

Apparently, Mr Chawla is not the only IPS officer who cannot distinguish between PMFs and CAPFs. In an article in the Hindustan Times on 18th September, Mr MP Nathael, a former IG of the CRPF, argued that there must be a separate tribunal for the PMFs such as CRPF, BSF, ITBP etc, on the lines of the Armed Forces Tribunals.

Some officers in CAPFs such as the BSF and the ITBP argue that since they too are deployed on the borders, they have an equal right to be called a para military force like the Assam Rifles. This is a valid point, in line with the Report of the Group of Ministers on National Security of 2001, which had clearly stated that border guarding forces being more akin to the Army are different from central police organisations which are called in aid of civil power from time to time. A simple solution would be to classify the border guarding forces such as BSF and the ITBP too as PMFs, with slight changes in the command set up. However, any suggestion to place them under the command of Army officers like the existing PMFs is certain to draw howls of protest from the IPS fraternity, and thus unlikely to bear fruit.

Apart from the confusion about PMFs and CAPFs, another classification that that needs to be clarified is that of security and intelligence agencies. As already explained, the military, PMFs, CAPFs and Police all perform tasks related to security and should be correctly referred to as security forces or agencies. (The police has a dual role, since it is also an investigation agency, like the CBI). The IB, RAW and NTRO are all intelligence agencies, though the media often clubs them with the security forces and refers to all of them as security agencies. Once again, an easy way to distinguish between the two is that security forces always wear a uniform and carry arms openly, whereas intelligence agencies neither wear a uniform nor carry arms openly. Of course, smaller forces with specialised roles may not strictly adhere to these rules. For instance, the Special Protection Group (SPG), modelled on the Secret Service that protects the President of the USA, provides personal security to the Indian Prime Minister and his family. SPG personnel do not wear a uniform, though they are uniformly dressed. They carry arms, but not openly.

Maj Gen VK Singh (Retd)
G-31, Palam Vihar, Gurgaon -122017

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 05 Nov 2017 05:10

From Ajai Shukla's Blog:

Army chief, Gen Bipin Rawat: Agreed to build Railway bridges to boost Army’s image

Army chief responds to criticism about military being used on civil engineering tasks

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 2nd Nov 17

Army chief, General Bipin Rawat says he has directed the army to build three railway bridges in Mumbai in order to boost the army’s image as an organization that stands ready to assist the public at times of distress.

“We often hold camps in various towns and cities on the theme of ‘Know your Army’. I would prefer that our citizens get to know their army by seeing us come to their assistance with the efficiency and capability we are known for”, Rawat told Business Standard.

The army chief was answering criticism from various quarters, including from Opposition parties and retired army veterans, about the army being employed on civil engineering tasks that were the responsibility of the railways. Critics averred the army should be training for war, not making up for the inefficiency of civil agencies.

Amongst three pedestrian over-bridges the army has undertaken to complete by January is one that was damaged in a deadly stampede that killed 23 persons at Elphinstone Road train station in September.

The army chief says the army engineering units that will build the over-bridges are not being diverted from training. “These combat engineer units are used in war for building bridges for advancing troops. Instead of training by building bridges over the Mula and Mutha rivers in Pune, they will practice by building bridges in Mumbai. It takes the same skills in either case”, he said.

The army chief also argued that publicly demonstrating army capabilities would help in resettling soldiers after they retire. “If we want our offices and jawans (soldiers) who retire young to pick up jobs outside, what better way than to persuade the railways to raise one or two battalions of ex-servicemen to build bridges? Lateral absorption in organisations like the railways will happen if we demonstrate our discipline, capability and adherence to time deadlines”, he said.

“I have already stopped the expensive advertising campaigns we were running, urging the youth to join the army. We don’t really need to advertise. We should create awareness of the army by public assistance”, said Rawat.

He pointed out the army was the first responder in almost every natural disaster, and whenever the civil administration needed help. In February, the army built a Bailey Bridge in Enathu, Kerala to assist the civil administration. In August, after devastating floods in Bihar, army engineers had built a bridge near Katihar.

On Monday, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman publicly announced that the army was being co-opted to help the Maharashtra government. Says Rawat: “Given the tragedy that took place at Elphinstone Road station, could the army have refused to assist? If I have a capability, I am duty bound to deploy it.”

The army chief said, given the army’s frequent deployment in disaster management and relief, he has asked the defence ministry to permit units to procure disaster management equipment with government funds. Currently, expenditure on such equipment invites audit objections, on the grounds that this is not the army’s primary job.

“I told the defence minister that we would always remain first responders. Just equip us for the task.”

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Nov 2017 15:39

What is wrong with IA being involved in civil works if that decision is taken based on consensus rather a one sided directive ? IA has built foot bridges in N Delhi before iirc one of them was built for Delhi CW games when the original one built by gobmint came crashing down , Madras Sappers built that footbridge within a month I guess the gobmint realizes that if they have to build a footbridge in Mumbai and contract be floated to usual suspects it would take years to get things done so in wake of Elphinstone road fiasco they want a quick solution and hence asked the IA to step in.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Nov 2017 14:10

http://www.defencenews.in/article/India ... ity-444346

India plans tunnel network on China border for year round border security
Monday, November 06, 2017
By: ET

Although work on the crucial 73 India China Border Roads (ICBRs) is ongoing, India is looking towards towards a stronger option for better connectivity along the entire Line of Actual Control. This is underground tunnels with India planning to construct 17 along the LAC, while developing its capabilities in this regard. Tunnels unlike roads will ensure that the distance to the LAC is drastically reduced and there is all-weather connectivity. This will lead to troops and adequate supplies- even during heavy snowfall that block important roads quickly reaching strategic locations in case of a Doklam like standoff or a future conflict.

More importantly, a major hurdle to the construction of border roads is land acquisition and forest clearances, which for tunnels is being considered a relatively smaller issue. This issue has often taken building of roads, which have much longer distances than tunnels, to be completed in a very long period of time.

In view of the need for capability and technological enhancement in this field, India’s primary border infrastructure construction agency, the Border Roads Organisation (BRO), organised a two-day seminar this week.

Attended by officials from the Delhi Metro Rail Corporation, Ministry of Roads Transport and Highways, Railways, the National Highways Authority of India, the Army and foreign firms involved in such construction activities, it was here that discussions were held on adopting best practises and techniques for tunnel construction.
THE BIG ISSUES ::

Along the entire LAC from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh, military posts and the civilian population remain cut off for about six months in a year due to snowfall or rain. The issue is prevalent in the strategically located Ladakh region. The only option left for the armed forces to reach their personnel and send supplies is through air support.

Due to the restricted mobility and in view of the Dokalam standoff, India is quickly moving towards the construction of its 73 ICBRs along the LAC. These roads will also ensure development of the border regions. The BRO which is tasked with constructing 61 of them, has completed 27. However, work on this project which began in 1999 or any road construction in the border areas has its varied challenges.

The foremost problem is land acquisition. A border road passes through different terrains and so has several stakeholders. It could include the centre, state and forest officials and therefore involves different rules. In Arunachal this problem is grave due to lack of land records. Most of these roads are located in forests and wildlife sanctuaries and construction cannot start without environmental clearances, which take years.

Furthermore, the Himalayan ranges with its fragile geology has a history of earthquakes, landslides and avalanches. Monsoons and snow also play havoc, preventing construction and blocking roads.
FINDING SOLUTION ::

On the other hand, the BRO is looking at tunnels for stronger connectivity, bypassing issues of road construction. “Instead of constructing long roads, encircling a hill and then moving on to the next hill, we can instead cut through the hill to create a tunnel.This will greatly shorten the distance from a particular start point to the required destination,” explains a BRO official.

Tunnels will reduce the operational cost of vehicles and the need for deploying troops for security duties in sensitive areas. It will also ensure all-weather connectivity to regions cut off from the mainland during winters. Tunnels will also be safe from avalanches and landslides. For example, the 10.9 km long Chenani-Nashri road tunnel in J&K reduces the distance between Chenani and Nashri from 41 km to 9.2 km and also bypasses 44 avalanche and landslide prone spots.

The BRO has planned to construct 17 highway tunnels about 100 km in length along the entire LAC, including some which are already under construction. Ladakh is a focus point. A primary tunnel is the 8.8 km long Rohtang tunnel being constructed by Strabag-Afcon joint venture. Others are at Lachung La, Baralacha La, Tanglang La on the Manali – Leh road and Shinkhunla, besides the Zojila pass on the Srinagar-Kargil-Leh road. In Arunachal, construction of a tunnel at Sela Pass will commence, besides at a place called Nechipu. In Sikkim, the 578 m long Theng tunnel is also being constructed. Tunnel construction will also form an important feature of the rail network.

srai · Post by **srai** » 06 Nov 2017 19:43

^^^

They need to hire Elon Musk's Boring company

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 06 Nov 2017 21:32

negi wrote:What is wrong with IA being involved in civil works if that decision is taken based on consensus rather a one sided directive ? IA has built foot bridges in N Delhi before iirc one of them was built for Delhi CW games when the original one built by gobmint came crashing down , Madras Sappers built that footbridge within a month I guess the gobmint realizes that if they have to build a footbridge in Mumbai and contract be floated to usual suspects it would take years to get things done so in wake of Elphinstone road fiasco they want a quick solution and hence asked the IA to step in.

Negiji,

Please see this link,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... d_projects

"United States Army Corps of Engineers

"The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE),[5] also sometimes shortened to CoE,[6] is a U.S. federal agency under the Department of Defense and a major Army command made up of some 37,000 civilian and military personnel,[1] making it one of the world's largest public engineering, design, and construction management agencies. Although generally associated with dams, canals and flood protection in the United States, USACE is involved in a wide range of public works throughout the world. The Corps of Engineers provides outdoor recreation opportunities to the public, and provides 24% of U.S. hydropower capacity.

The corps' mission is to "Deliver vital public and military engineering services; partnering in peace and war to strengthen our Nation's security, energize the economy and reduce risks from disasters."[7]

Their most visible missions include:

Planning, designing, building, and operating locks and dams. Other civil engineering projects include flood control, beach nourishment, and dredging for waterway navigation.
Design and construction of flood protection systems through various federal mandates.
Design and construction management of military facilities for the Army, Air Force, Army Reserve and Air Force Reserve and other Defense and Federal agencies.
Environmental regulation and ecosystem restoration."

I do not need the American Army to justify a position taken by the Indian army, ie the Indian Army does not need to explain itself. Rawat did not need to make a comment for the digestion and constipation of the few.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Nov 2017 22:32

https://youtu.be/z64Q8B25hBk

Enemies are obviously outside but we have insiders as traitors that need to be taken care of

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 07 Nov 2017 19:34

I like this particular line from Army chief, General S Padmanabhan, when he went public with an explicit threat on January 11, 2002.

'As long as I am alive, if nuclear weapons are used against India, or Indian forces, or the forces in the seas, or our economic interests, the perpetrator of the particular outrage will be punished, punished so severely that his continuation in any fray will be in doubt,' the general said.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 19:48

Philip wrote:http://www.defencenews.in/article/India ... ity-444346
The foremost problem is land acquisition. A border road passes through different terrains and so has several stakeholders. It could include the centre, state and forest officials and therefore involves different rules. In Arunachal this problem is grave due to lack of land records. Most of these roads are located in forests and wildlife sanctuaries and construction cannot start without environmental clearances, which take years.

Both jingos and liberandus need to learn from this paragraph

Like it or not rule of law and human rights ARE respected, patchily maybe but they are not forgotten. That is the lesson for liberandus

Jingos get their knickers in a twist comparing Indian inefficiency with China. But China does not give a rats ass for rights. They will grab and use land at will.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 19:51

srai wrote:^^^

They need to hire Elon Musk's Boring company

Tunnel boring Bengaluru Metro. Check out that deadly hard granite

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Nov 2017 20:42

Ah Shiv ji.. but that photu is just plain 'boring'. No nifty graphics or animation featuring TFTAs. Just plain down-to-earth, well actually down-under-the-earth SDREs

srai · Post by **srai** » 07 Nov 2017 21:17

shiv wrote:
srai wrote:^^^

They need to hire Elon Musk's Boring company
Tunnel boring Bengaluru Metro. Check out that deadly hard granite

Good to see that in use in India. Standard boring machine design across the world. Would speed up the BRO tunnel work along the border areas. Let's see if someone posts an image of that

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 07 Nov 2017 21:29

What do u mean,”good to see this in india” hain ji?
TBMs are in use in india for a decade and a half

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 08 Nov 2017 00:55

Urban Use machine.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Nov 2017 08:53

srai wrote: Good to see that in use in India. Standard boring machine design across the world. Would speed up the BRO tunnel work along the border areas. Let's see if someone posts an image of that

One problem about world standards that Indians are the last to admit are that world standards often do not meed Indian requirements or conditions. Those boring machines are Italian but the granite underneath Bangalore is so hard that the machines could barely make 2 meters a day. One eventually broke down in situ and it took 6 months for dismantling and installing a new machine do do the same 2 meters per day

Some of these boring machines will eat through chalk and what? 20 meters per day or faster. Give them South Indian peninsular gneiss and they will phail

One good thing is that border roads are consulting Delhi Metro. The man who did Delhi Metro is an expert whom Bengaluru Metro should have consulted but did not

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Nov 2017 08:56

Gagan wrote:What do u mean,”good to see this in india” hain ji?
TBMs are in use in india for a decade and a half

True. When I saw that post I realized that he was posting some Amreeka image because he probably did not know

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Nov 2017 08:56

Manish_P wrote:Ah Shiv ji.. but that photu is just plain 'boring'. No nifty graphics or animation featuring TFTAs. Just plain down-to-earth, well actually down-under-the-earth SDREs

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Nov 2017 05:50

Indian Army builds defence against outdated technology
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ar ... 568900.cms

The move to amend defence procurement manual (DPM) by adding a separate chapter on tech products — a long standing demand of the industry — will significantly speed up the process of the defence forces procuring and implementing the latest technology, people aware of the development said. At present, defence procurement takes years, sometimes up to a decade, they said.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 19 Nov 2017 18:07

https://acuriousarmywife.wordpress.com/ ... -moh-maya/

Army Train Journey Part 1: ‘Expected Time Of Departure’ is moh maya!

Heard of the special Army train?
No, no, not the NDA special.
I am talking about the one in which female presence is allowed!

I first heard about this special Army train from many army wives, who had accompanied their husband’s
battalion (or Unit) in such trains while shifting from one positing location to another, and decided it was
high time for me, the ‘Curious Army Wife’, to experience the journey.
Hashtag Travel Goals
Hashtag Life mein ek baar.
Hashtag Rahul Gandhi Pappu Hai.
So, when it was time for Major Sa’ab’s unit to move from a field location to a peace station,
I came to know the famous special Army train will be used for this movement.
Major Sa’ab told me officers are allowed to bring their families on this special Army train.
I think it’s only legit that I have a minor listicle-attack to explain some things about this train
before I tell you my story.