Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 02 May 2019 18:37

ArjunPandit wrote:so MMS govt did Surgical strikes in their tenure. Hindustan times reporting with exact dates.


Lt Gen Hooda is on record as stating what happened in October 2016 was on a scale which was totally different from what happened earlier, this present interview nothing but to save face. What was earlier was minor operations generally driven out since the army was pushed on edge and much more minor in comparison- so cant really be called surgical strikes.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 02 May 2019 19:44

ArjunPandit wrote:so MMS govt did Surgical strikes in their tenure. Hindustan times reporting with exact dates.



More like surgical incisions. Just like swatting a gnat.
Anyway interesting ManMaun Singh found his voice.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby negi » 02 May 2019 19:59

wig wrote:https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/11-cols-opt-out-of-coveted-courses-highest-in-decade/766309.html

11 Cols opt out of coveted courses, highest in decade -‘Structured marks’ system removal in 2017, no guarantee of promotion and premature retirement plan seen as prime reasons
excerpts
about a dozen Colonel-level officers of the Army have opted out of the prestigious and much-coveted higher command course (HCC) and the higher defence management course (HDMC).
The number of officers opting out is the highest in more than a decade. In 2008, 10 Colonels opted out in the backdrop of a rising economy offering jobs to these mid-career officers. Since then, four to six officers have opted out mostly due to personal and family reasons. This year has seen a surge due to several reasons.

These officers were selected to do the courses based on their performance as commanders of their battalions and their service of almost 18 years.

further
Each year, there are 86 vacancies in HCC, conducted at Mhow near Indore, and another 92 vacancies in HDMC, conducted at Secunderabad. Both courses are of 11-month duration during which the officers — usually between 38-39 years of age — are exposed to various facets of war fighting, new technologies, besides latest issues of global importance.

It's a great sign , forces are unfortunately becoming safe sarkari job havens and attract like minded souls when one needs the military to fight , not for generating employment . With our population it would make sense to have 5 and 10 year commissions in the forces for most of it's manpower needs and make it strictly optional and merit based to continue for more than 15 years , it will keep the fresh blood inflow at a rate that is needed and at the same time keep things sustainable for the public exchequer . Those who really want to protect interests of this country can do so with or without the uniform .
Last edited by negi on 02 May 2019 20:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 May 2019 20:01

ramana wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:so MMS govt did Surgical strikes in their tenure. Hindustan times reporting with exact dates.



More like surgical incisions. Just like swatting a gnat.
Anyway interesting ManMaun Singh found his voice.

it was said by rajiv shukla :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 02 May 2019 20:50

Even if there was a "surgical strike", that there was no political cover for the army to publicly acknowledge it by UPA Govt is really sad. I mean, the forces are going crossing the LoC and putting their lives at risk, so the least that the Govt can do is to commend them in public. The forces need to know that the country is behind them (minus all the BIFs, WKKs ofcourse).

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby negi » 02 May 2019 23:07

As per Napunsak singh's logic someone putting a foot on other side of LoC is also a surgical strike ; let that moron be.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 02 May 2019 23:24

DGMO has aldready responded to an RTI query there no surgical strikes. There might have been some minor cross border strikes. I think post Balakot the INC is feeling nanga and is trying to invent history

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 02 May 2019 23:33

Aditya_V wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:so MMS govt did Surgical strikes in their tenure. Hindustan times reporting with exact dates.


Lt Gen Hooda is on record as stating what happened in October 2016 was on a scale which was totally different from what happened earlier, this present interview nothing but to save face. What was earlier was minor operations generally driven out since the army was pushed on edge and much more minor in comparison- so cant really be called surgical strikes.


during singh's time the IA didn't have many permissions as also the freedom to act like this govt has given them.

singh was always very wary of displeasing his paki friends and the great aman ki tamasha.

We just don't hear any more crap about shitty paki ideas like aman ki tamasha anymore and maybe the flood of "medical visas" granted instantaneously on twitter seems to have mostly evaporated

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 May 2019 01:02

Aditya_V wrote:DGMO has aldready responded to an RTI query there no surgical strikes. There might have been some minor cross border strikes. I think post Balakot the INC is feeling nanga and is trying to invent history

I fail to understand who files such RTIs and why does Army even entertain those RTIs. WHile it is good in this environment. It is not a good precedent.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby siqir » 03 May 2019 13:49

re the yeti

https://mobile.twitter.com/NirajRai3/st ... 1135983617

Ice samples from so called Yeti footprints can yield enough DNA to reconstruct this mysterious species. It is our humble request to ADG PI- Indian Army to provide / allow us to collect the ice samples for the DNA analysis.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Lalmohan » 03 May 2019 17:32

ice containing skin cells? hair? sweat? think its a bit low probability...

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Supratik » 03 May 2019 19:26

Ice specially permafrost preserves DNA for very long periods.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Indrajit » 03 May 2019 20:42

Second that Supratik.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 May 2019 20:45

Supratik wrote:Ice specially permafrost preserves DNA for very long periods.

such large animal would have pooed/urinated too..in such environment pee might freeze and may help in genetic tagging. That said, IA had an opportunity to wiggle out of this by claiming this as a joke

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Lalmohan » 03 May 2019 21:41

supratik - I am aware of ice mummies and what is being done with them, however there is no claim that the yeti left anything other than footprints

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby MeshaVishwas » 04 May 2019 12:43

https://twitter.com/Gen_VKSingh/status/1124568601317363712?s=19
Congress has a habit of lying. Will you please let me know which ‘So called Surgical Strike’ are you attributing to my tenure as COAS. Am sure you must have hired some Coupta to invent another story .

:rotfl:
BRF dictionary has yet again revolutionized bit**slaps.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Kashi » 04 May 2019 14:17

Now I am certain Gen Singh is an avid BRF follower. First "presstitutes" and now "Coupta."

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 11 May 2019 23:46

https://defenceupdate.in/k30-biho-v-s-tunguska-m1-v-s-pantsir-s1-indian-army-selected-k-30-biho-close-range-air-defence-system/
India has finally selected the South Korean-made Hanwha K-30 Biho, designed mainly to protect forward maneuver units. Further official confirmation properly documented is expected.

South Korean anti-missile and anti-aircraft defense system, the K30 Biho which beat two Russian competitors, the Tunguska-M1 and Pantsir in trials for an Indian procurement program.

Hanwha’s K-30 Biho (Flying Tiger) twin 30mm short range, mobile self-propelled anti-aircraft system, manufactured by Hanwha, has been selected by the Indian Army following a competition that included Russia’s Tunguska-M1 which has a range of up to 10 kilometers, and the Pantsir-S1 ‘Greyhound’.

The K30 Biho was developed by Korea’s Agency for Defense Development in 2013 as a short range anti-aircraft and anti-missile system. In the bidding process, it beat out an upgraded Tunguska-M1 model built by the Russian state-owned defense company Almaz-Antey and the Pantsir missile system from the Russian KPB Instrument Design Bureau. The K30 Biho was judged the most capable of dual purpose use as an anti-missile and anti-aircraft defense system, the publication said quoting unnamed sources in the Korean government.

The report said that Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu expressed dissatisfaction with the decision on the sidelines of a military conference between the two countries Dec. 18. Shoygu reportedly told the Indians that the Indian military had not properly tested the weapon in a deliberate attempt to not buy arms from Russia, according to a source in the Korean government quoted by the publication.

The Russians followed this up by sending an official request to the Indian Defense Ministry asking it to re-evaluate the bidding process.

“The fact that its weapons were outgunned in the bidding must have come at a major shock to Russia, which prides itself as the leading manufacturer of combined defense systems,” the Korean official said. “We expect them to attempt to block this deal to the end.”

Recently, During an overnight raid on purported Iranian positions in Syria, Israeli rockets hit a Russian-made Pantsir-S1 surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery system. A few months ago, Russian air defence system could not bring down the cruise missiles and, in addition, the Pantsir has a number of difficulties in combating lightweight drones.

Against the backdrop of problems with the Russian system, a proposal from South Korea interested a large number of potential customers. The Hybrid BIHO consists of a 30mm self-propelled anti-aircraft defense system ‘BIHO’ combined with the portable surface-to-air guided missile system and intercepts low altitude infiltrating enemy aircraft and helicopters. The Hybrid BIHO can carry a total of 4 guided missiles with an effective range of 5km with upgraded potential to 8-10 km.

South Korea’s air defence system features the detection distance of 21km and excellent tracking and aiming capability against enemy aircraft infiltration. The standard version of the Biho is armed with two 30 mm automatic cannons. The cyclic rate of fire for a single gun is 600 rounds per minute.

Each gun is provided with 300 rounds of ready to use ammunition. Also, it carries 4 short-range surface-to-air missile systems with effective ranges of 5km (in future 8-10).

The missiles features an integral Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system, full night and adverse weather capabilities, and a two-color infrared seeker to aid in negating countermeasures.

The K-30 Biho, in addition to its 30mm auto-cannon, has LIG NX1 Chiron missiles, a TPS-830K search and tracking radar, and advanced electro-optical sights fire control. The expected quantities are 104 K-30 Biho systems, plus 97 ammunition carriers, 39 command vehicles and ammunition with a value of KRW 3 trillion $2.6 billion (KRW 3 trillion). This is the first export sale of the system by Korea. Biho also participated in US Army firing demonstrations held in 2017.

Further, L&T and Hanwa tech are already partners, so this machine can be easily manufactured on existing k-9 vajrat lines, plus commonality for spares and Trust of L&T ( one of the best Indian conglomerate, especially in defence equipments)


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Atmavik » 12 May 2019 02:10

Kashi wrote:Now I am certain Gen Singh is an avid BRF follower. First "presstitutes" and now "Coupta."


and so is Coupta. hate to put them in the same sentence.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Khalsa » 12 May 2019 11:40

srin wrote:https://defenceupdate.in/k30-biho-v-s-tunguska-m1-v-s-pantsir-s1-indian-army-selected-k-30-biho-close-range-air-defence-system/
India has finally selected the South Korean-made Hanwha K-30 Biho, designed mainly to protect forward maneuver units. Further official confirmation properly documented is expected.



Where did this come from ? I never saw this coming.
I never knew we were not so happy with Tunguska

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 12 May 2019 12:07

^^^The fact that we did not go beyond one regiment of Tungushka should tell you something.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Khalsa » 13 May 2019 15:30

rohitvats wrote:^^^The fact that we did not go beyond one regiment of Tungushka should tell you something.


Bloody Hell, I have some reading up to do. Been too busy chasing Arjuns and Tejas.
i need to get another hobby
;-)

Fair enough Rohit. Thasts good to know.
So with that info I am just going to guess that we are still retaining the old Shilkas as well then for now.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 13 May 2019 16:23

Yes, about 90 odd Shilkas (I think we imported 100) have been put up for update. 48 were done some years back and I think, balance lot is also completed. The number of these South Korean gun/missile AD systems exactly matches the number of Shikla we have. So, one might consider them as 1-on-1 replacement. However, since we've recently upgraded Shilkas, and have done quite a comprehensive upgrade, we will double our strength of Self Propelled (SP) Gun/Missile AD platforms.

IMO, Shilkas will now move from AD Brigades organic to Armored Divisions to formations with Pivot Corps. And BH-30 will replace them within Armored Divisions.

Expect Pakistan Army's AH-1 Cobra's to be 'pleasantly' surprised when they take on RAPID and (I) Armored Brigades of some Pivot Corps!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 13 May 2019 17:01

Or Some Paki F Solah or JF 17 Thunder's inadvertently cross the LOC and some of thier pilots parachute in Indian territory with Ghaffora denying them as PAF pilots :D

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Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Peregrine » 14 May 2019 04:07

Army raises alarm over rising accidents due to faulty ammunition - Rajat Pandit
NEW DELHI: The Army has sounded an alarm over the unacceptably high number of accidents taking place in the field due to poor quality and defective ammunition being supplied for tanks, artillery, air defence and other guns by the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).
Cheers Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2019 11:24

I had mentioned the above and pointed out the OFB's pathetic QA/QC had NOT improved despite all claims to the contrary. Sad that the issue remains and OFB's appalling record continues unchecked.

If this is not damning, I dont know what is. We need ammo manufacture to shift to other PSUs and Pvt sector, stat.

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2019 11:25

Mind you people get injured in these incidents. :(
An officer and 4 soldiers were injured in the L-70 incident.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 May 2019 14:03

^hope OFB is taken to task sometime..its already been quite sometime since we have been hearing this. Didnt it also delay the tests of some guns?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rahul M » 14 May 2019 14:12

OFBs need to be spun off as PSU's with full control over their cadres. QC standards have to be set and those factories which do not maintain such should be sold to the pvt sector and their manpower compulsorily retired. Any good performers can be absorbed by other factories or psu if they have the need.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 14 May 2019 17:35

WHile no doubt OFB has work to do, but please don't take the report at face value, I can bet some folks are want to influence decision makers for importing ammunition for a commission

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby tsarkar » 14 May 2019 18:23

Not everything is a manufacturing defect as how ordnance is stored affects its quality as well. Army storage facilities need to be assessed too - some of them are WW2 vintage. In many forward areas like during Kargil War, ammunition was stored in the open in the absence of UG bunkers that were required to be built.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Lalmohan » 14 May 2019 18:46

^^^ question since i don't know. what happens re ammo storage for manoeuvre units? presumably they have to be kept in the open (containerised) more than kept underground?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby atreya » 14 May 2019 23:19

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ question since i don't know. what happens re ammo storage for manoeuvre units? presumably they have to be kept in the open (containerised) more than kept underground?


Lalmohan saar, a good article about the SOPs regarding ammunition storage in IA:

https://www.newslaundry.com/2017/09/26/ ... 007-21-fad

Ideally, all ammunition must be stored in underground shelters. Overground sheds with baffle wall are also acceptable. Due to the limitation of sheds, stacks in open covered by tarpaulins are also used. In 21 FAD, the ammunition was stored in overground sheds and stacks in the open.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 15 May 2019 01:58

tsarkar wrote:Not everything is a manufacturing defect as how ordnance is stored affects its quality as well. Army storage facilities need to be assessed too - some of them are WW2 vintage. In many forward areas like during Kargil War, ammunition was stored in the open in the absence of UG bunkers that were required to be built.

Sahi pakde aap.

I also pointed this out to many folks in the know.

KaranM, Do we have a detailed account of all those incidents mentioned?

I read cursorily. Black spots are corrosion marks.

No half blind DGQA official will accept them.

I think there is a shifting the blame going on.
lets see.

That 15 pager will gone through will fine tooth comb.
Its sad that the soldiers were hurt.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby souravB » 15 May 2019 03:23

Khan ishtyle uniform coming to IA
excerpts
The aim is to make the uniform comfortable and more attractive. “The discussion is about the textile which makes it suitable in places with high temperature and high moisture. Also, the discussion was about the rank badges which get covered under Bullet Proof Jackets and in high altitude clothing. It can be brought to the chest level,” said the officer.

Also from another source
The army’s top brass discussed the issue recently. Officials in the army explained that some suggestions have been received and are being examined. The suggestions include shifting the position of the cloth rank epaulettes that identifies the regiment and rank of of a soldier, which are worn on the shoulders of the combat uniforms. The suggestion was to move it to the chest of the soldier. This is similar to the way epaulettes are worn in the armies of US, UK and even Pakistan.

Other suggested changes are on the lanyard (cord), which is worn around the shoulder in some uniforms, removing the belt of peace-time uniforms, because its buckle is much bigger than that of a normal belt and therefore can get uncomfortable. One suggestion is for modifying the shirt and trousers in certain uniforms. The army has around eight types of uniforms, including for ceremonies and daily work wear.

Officials explained that some of the reasons behind changes proposed for the uniforms are for comfort, security from being identified by the adversary and durability. “Talks on the issue have been ongoing. The suggested changes are being examined,” said an official.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 15 May 2019 08:52

^^ let's hope the current camouflage is retained. The digital camouflage trend had its time. Also, large number of BPJ and helmets have been ordered in the existing camouflage.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Karan M » 17 May 2019 15:50

More than playing around with uniforms for aesthetics, this is what is needed.
https://defense-update.com/20180603_blackhornet.html

Image

Disproportionate capability increase for less than the price of a few T-90s.
And we need to deny the opponent a similar capability by investing in EW/jammers.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby mody » 18 May 2019 16:03

There was news a few months back about DRDO and IIT-B having developed new BPJ. These were supposed to be lighter and much better then the existing bullet proof jackets being used. Have any of these been tested/approved?
In COIN ops in J&K all the soldiers wear BPJ and patkas. Yet, we are having a high number of casualties amongst the troops. Is this because of grenades being thrown by terrorists or AK rounds fired by terrorists managing to get past the BPJs or hitting the soldiers in the face or groin etc?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby souravB » 19 May 2019 01:21

Thakur_B wrote:^^ let's hope the current camouflage is retained. The digital camouflage trend had its time. Also, large number of BPJ and helmets have been ordered in the existing camouflage.

Woodland camo had its time. I'd say if we are changing uniforms, we go for multicam. I'd agree digicam had it's share of limelight but it was not effective as a standard camo. Multicam is tested to be effective in variety of env as well as IR.
But more than the camo, I'd be happier if IA adopts some of the design elements of other forces like mandarine collar, integrated slots for knee & elbow pads, replacement of elastic with chord in trouser bottom, less pockets in uniform for tropical env. etc etc.
Moreover I'd like IA to contract 1-2 bigshot garment companies for the uniforms and distribute. Not let jawans to tailor it from their village shops to save a few bucks. NCOs upwards can pay for their own uniforms.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby souravB » 19 May 2019 01:30

mody wrote:There was news a few months back about DRDO and IIT-B having developed new BPJ. These were supposed to be lighter and much better then the existing bullet proof jackets being used. Have any of these been tested/approved?
In COIN ops in J&K all the soldiers wear BPJ and patkas. Yet, we are having a high number of casualties amongst the troops. Is this because of grenades being thrown by terrorists or AK rounds fired by terrorists managing to get past the BPJs or hitting the soldiers in the face or groin etc?

There were too many BPJs developed by too many institutions. There was
1. BARC developed Kavach BPJs
2. Amity university prof Shantanu Bhowmik developed CNT enforced Kevlar for BPJs
3. Our own industrial companies providing BPJs
and now this.

For face protection there are newer helmets with mandibles that is being tested by British army
Image

Also for groin protection, this is newest form tinkered by US Army design dept.
Image


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