Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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rohitvats
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 31 Jul 2019 20:16

Aditya_V wrote: Unfortunately for Pakis there is no land to playwith as Lahore, Sialkot and rest Shakargarh area is critical for them<SNIP>


This holds for India as well.

- Pathankot is 25 km from international border.

- The critical Pathankot - Kathua - Sambha road which connects rest of the country with Jammu and thence, with Srinagar, is at its maximum, only 25 km from the international border.

- At most places, it is under 15 km from the border.

- Pathankot is our main logistics node for entire north. Also home to one of India's biggest cantonments with 2 x (I) Armored Brigades, Infantry Division HQ+some of its brigades, POL, fighter base etc.

- And to hold Pathankot, you need to hold Gurdaspur.

- So, India per force has to go on offensive in this sector. This automatically gives depth to our sensitive lines of communications.

- On Pakistan's side, Sialkot - Jafarwal - Shakar Garh axis opposite our Pathankot-Madhopur-Sambha road allows Pakistan Army to move and concentrate troops at location(s) of its choice

- However, there are east-to-west water bodies/rivers here; while lateral troop movement is possible, the bridges on these water bodies/rivers are choke points. And these bridges are in depth.

- Also, it means that these rives provide protection along the flanks of Pakistan Army troops.

- Side effect of this is that troops cannot move laterally unless they move back and use the bridges.

- Taking out the bridges will complicate troop movement for Pakistan Army.

- Rivers/Nallas are an issue depending upon water level in them, especially the nallas.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 31 Jul 2019 23:54

rohitvats wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: Unfortunately for Pakis there is no land to playwith as Lahore, Sialkot and rest Shakargarh area is critical for them<SNIP>


This holds for India as well.

- Pathankot is 25 km from international border.

- The critical Pathankot - Kathua - Sambha road which connects rest of the country with Jammu and thence, with Srinagar, is at its maximum, only 25 km from the international border.

- At most places, it is under 15 km from the border.

- Pathankot is our main logistics node for entire north. Also home to one of India's biggest cantonments with 2 x (I) Armored Brigades, Infantry Division HQ+some of its brigades, POL, fighter base etc.

- And to hold Pathankot, you need to hold Gurdaspur..


Interesting. Can this be mitigated by using a layered ADS including the s400 + mrsam + Akash + Spyder?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 01 Aug 2019 15:11

Cain Marko wrote: <SNIP>
Interesting. Can this be mitigated by using a layered ADS including the s400 + mrsam + Akash + Spyder?


These are defensive system which will act as deterrent against PAF and PA helicopter gunships. But completely useless against any ground campaign by PA in this sector.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Aug 2019 16:15

I agree it is critical for India, some posters had mentioned that the Pakistani Army can disperse and afford to disengage while they are beign attacked, the Truth is at least in Punjab and Kashmir border this cannot happen.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 01 Aug 2019 22:34

rohitvats wrote:
Cain Marko wrote: <SNIP>
Interesting. Can this be mitigated by using a layered ADS including the s400 + mrsam + Akash + Spyder?


These are defensive system which will act as deterrent against PAF and PA helicopter gunships. But completely useless against any ground campaign by PA in this sector.

But wouldn't IAF and IA air assets take apart such ground assaults by the PA?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chola » 02 Aug 2019 16:09

Tank Biathlon time!

IA attending this year? Haven't come across any news.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RUSexercises/status/1154276373558513664

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ZVEZDA: 102 tanks of various colors prepared for the “Tank Biathlon” in the Taman Division

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Aug 2019 17:04

hope they send arjun this time..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Khalsa » 02 Aug 2019 17:20

slow clap

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Karan M » 02 Aug 2019 17:25

Those new T-90 MS will likely be deployed against Pak. Their Relikt ERA is designed to defeat the TOW-2A/tandem warheads + KE rounds.

K-V ERA as on existing T-90s can handle conventional ATGMs + KE rounds.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chola » 02 Aug 2019 19:56

ArjunPandit wrote:hope they send arjun this time..


Yes, that is the only reason why the Biathlon would interest me. They sent the T-90 last time so hopefully the Arjun this year.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 02 Aug 2019 19:58

Send both and let the better tank win!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 02 Aug 2019 20:12

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1157238391609556992 ---> Domestic R&D spending as a percentage of GDP is well below one percent, while horrendously expensive 'flagship' programmes entirely built with foreign technology are being touted as sterling examples of modernity. And when it comes to indigenous procurement - 'Dekhonomoney'.

Allow me to expand on Saurav's tweet....

Flagship Programs ---> Global Tender for Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). Rs 60,000 crore is estimated contract value.

Indigenous Procurement aka 'Dekho-No-Money' ---> Arjun Main Battle Tank

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 03 Aug 2019 00:18

That is how India is frittering away its advantage over its adversaries by foolish investments and waste of taxpayer dollars. the forces need to be held accountable. Why have 500 Arjuns not been ordered thus far?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 03 Aug 2019 12:40

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1157238391609556992 ---> Domestic R&D spending as a percentage of GDP is well below one percent, while horrendously expensive 'flagship' programmes entirely built with foreign technology are being touted as sterling examples of modernity. And when it comes to indigenous procurement - 'Dekhonomoney'.

Allow me to expand on Saurav's tweet....

Flagship Programs ---> Global Tender for Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). Rs 60,000 crore is estimated contract value.

Indigenous Procurement aka 'Dekho-No-Money' ---> Arjun Main Battle Tank


I think the above is misrepresentation of the facts.

Opposition to Arjun by the Indian Army is on operational and philosophical ground. Yes, you can argue against it, as has been done innumerable times on this forum, but it is important to understand root-cause. It was never about money.

As for FICV, the same has been a hanging fire for long; it was supposed to be a show-cause tender where DPSU had to compete to win the contract. And it ended up in limbo exactly because they won't allow their bread-and-butter business to go somewhere else.

If it gets executed in the manner envisaged, you'll have manufacturing capability outside of OFB.

Also, this is being executed with good lead-time, otherwise and Achilles heal for Indian programs. It should through-up a solution in the required time-frame to roll over to new FICV.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Aug 2019 14:48

Rohitvats from your sources in the IA, what is happening on the LOC which can be public ally disclosed. Have we hit some NHJP Dam site and pushed back construction by a few years.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 04 Aug 2019 07:56

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... s-5876318/

Five attempts by Pakistan’s BAT on border posts, India hits back with Bofors
Top military sources told The Sunday Express that there were five BAT attempts on Indian military posts on the LoC in the past few days.
According to sources, Pakistan Army started artillery fire on Indian posts, which led to a retaliatory response from the Indian side. India’s response including the use of Bofors 155mm artillery guns, which were used north of Pir Panjal ranges after a long time. The use of Bofors guns on the LoC is rare, and it has been done south of Pir Panjal.

It has been estimated, sources said, that the Pakistan Army was not prepared for such a massive retaliation and may have suffered high casualties.

during the intervening night of Jul 31 and Aug 1 there was a attempt by Pak BAT resulting in neutralising of 5 to 7 pak operators

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 04 Aug 2019 13:39

Aditya_V wrote:Rohitvats from your sources in the IA, what is happening on the LOC which can be public ally disclosed. Have we hit some NHJP Dam site and pushed back construction by a few years.


Aditya - As a matter of principle, I never ask people any kind of operational/ORBAT detail from the people I know in Services.

Coming to the second question - the said dam is just 5 km from the LOC in Tangdhar Sector and <15 km from Tangdhar itself. IA can blow it to smithereens at will - if it wants to. I doubt they were targeting the dam, though.

India dominates most of the Neelum Valley sector - In 1994, we plastered it so bad, that Pakistan has to evolve some alternate bypass roads as well. In fact, in some areas, where LOC is to east of Neelum Valley along lower reaches of Shamshabari Range, India can roll-over the Pakistanis and push them towards/across the river.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 05 Aug 2019 14:11

Ok Repect your views and agree I guess it is wrong to ask people in services. My Bad.

How important is the road through Minimarg to Pakistan? , if I am right BSF reached there in 71 but withdrew.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 05 Aug 2019 17:42

Aditya_V wrote: How important is the road through Minimarg to Pakistan? , if I am right BSF reached there in 71 but withdrew.


Well, this is an interesting coincidence that you should ask about Minimarg because I'm working on a blog-post where I analyze the Neelum Valley Sector, and Gurez forms the northern edge of it. And I've touched upon it.

It would be so much easier to explain with a map only if BRF has upload image function!

But here goes:

- Gurez is the backdoor entry into Srinagar Valley.
- About 70 km before Gilgit on the famous Karakorum Highway, a road emanates in south-easterly direction towards the Astore Valley.
- Astore town is about 45 km ahead on this road
- This road continues forward and after crossing over 13,500 feet Burzil Pass (Burzil Pass is ~72 km from Astore), moves further in a south-easterly direction towards LOC.
- Minimarg is another ~17 km from the pass.
- And from Minimarg, the LOC is another ~25 odd kilometers.

- Some ~55 km from Astore (when moving towards LOC) but before Burzil Pass, a road bifurcates and goes directly towards Skardu. This road goes through and over the famous Deosai Plains and is about 110 km in length.

Historic routes:

(1) Srinagar - Bandipora - Razdan Pass - Gurez - Minimarg - Burzil Pass - Astore ---->Gilgit was a major caravan route.
(2) Another historical travel options was Srinagar - Bandipora - Razdan Pass - Gurez - Kamri Bal Pass - Astore ---> Gilgit.

- Of the above, route (1) has been developed as a proper communication axis in the region.
- Just for reference, Rattu Cantt lies in the valley along which route (2) moves. This Cantt is the location of Pakistan Army's Army High Altitude School

And here's the clincher - in his book on 1987 Operation Brasstacks, Ravi Rikhye mentions that Indian Army had planned a brigade strength attack from Gurez towards Astore. From here, the force could threaten Gilgit or Skardu. Skardu was the focus major operations under Op Trident with attack from both Kargil and Thoise towards Skardu.

Hope this helps to appreciate the military geography in the area.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby deejay » 05 Aug 2019 18:09

^^^ Rohit that attack from Gurez - the plan still exists.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 05 Aug 2019 20:02

deejay wrote:^^^ Rohit that attack from Gurez - the plan still exists.


I'm sure it does.

During Kargil, the AHQ reserve division, 6 Mountain Division, was sitting south of Zoji La at Sonamarg. Its anyone's guess from where it would've entered into POK.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 06 Aug 2019 09:45

OFB ready with new tank shell before Army changes target
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 538456.cms

extracted
The OFB has already got orders from the Army to supply 125mm fin-stabilized armour-piercing discarding stabot (FSAPDS) shells. The current version has a capacity to pierce into steel plates of 460mm thickness that are put on the enemy tanks. Sensing that the Army may soon demand a higher penetration, the OFB has a developed an ammunition that can rip into steel of over 500mm thickness

and
Army has invited request for proposal (RFP), from a whole gamut of ammunition the 125mm FSAPDS rounds were dropped as the piercing capacity was changed to over 500mm from 460mm, said a source. “If the Army now wants to change the standards, why should it have placed an order for 460mm at all? The Army has also purchased a sizeable quantity from Russian manufact rers,” said a source.
Both T-90 and T-72 tanks, also purchased from Russia, use same ammunition. Even as the FSAPDS shell is also used in the T72 tanks, the design made by the DRDO could not make its way into the Army. The production of the DRDO-designed shells was stopped nearly a decade ago following an accident, said a source.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 06 Aug 2019 13:20

wig wrote:OFB ready with new tank shell before Army changes target
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 538456.cms
Army has invited request for proposal (RFP), from a whole gamut of ammunition the 125mm FSAPDS rounds were dropped as the piercing capacity was changed to over 500mm from 460mm, said a source. “If the Army now wants to change the standards, why should it have placed an order for 460mm at all?

Unnecessary snarky. As if the enemy is going to patiently wait for you to finish your production run before they upgrade/replace their armor :roll:

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 14:22

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1157238391609556992 ---> Domestic R&D spending as a percentage of GDP is well below one percent, while horrendously expensive 'flagship' programmes entirely built with foreign technology are being touted as sterling examples of modernity. And when it comes to indigenous procurement - 'Dekhonomoney'.

Allow me to expand on Saurav's tweet....

Flagship Programs ---> Global Tender for Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV). Rs 60,000 crore is estimated contract value.

Indigenous Procurement aka 'Dekho-No-Money' ---> Arjun Main Battle Tank

Boss, some of the tech could actually help India MKI se its tank armada instead of going for all new and expensive ones

https://www.timesofisrael.com/defense-ministry-unveils-3-prototypes-for-israels-tanks-of-the-future/

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 06 Aug 2019 21:31

wig wrote:OFB ready with new tank shell before Army changes target
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 538456.cms

Army has invited request for proposal (RFP), from a whole gamut of ammunition the 125mm FSAPDS rounds were dropped as the piercing capacity was changed to over 500mm from 460mm, said a source. “If the Army now wants to change the standards, why should it have placed an order for 460mm at all? The Army has also purchased a sizeable quantity from Russian manufact rers,” said a source.
Both T-90 and T-72 tanks, also purchased from Russia, use same ammunition. Even as the FSAPDS shell is also used in the T72 tanks, the design made by the DRDO could not make its way into the Army. The production of the DRDO-designed shells was stopped nearly a decade ago following an accident, said a source.


The above is very dishonest piece which is 180 degree to the facts on the ground. Especially, the bold part towards the last where they try to pin the blame on DRDO. When the fact is, production was stopped due to major fvck-up by OFB leading to 140,000 shells to be discarded.

in 2014, I did a detailed analysis of Kinetic Energy (KE) rounds scenario in India. Do have a look if you're interested:
http://vatsrohit.blogspot.com/2013/11/indian-tank-ammunition-scenario-ke.html

I had also tweeted countering the facts mentioned in the above article.The same is reproduced below:

This is a dishonest piece which hides catastrophic failure at OFB. Thread:

- Russian APFSDS mentioned in the report : BM-42 'Mango' (Indian Army designation: AMK-339)
- Why was it imported?

- Two reason:

(1) Production disaster at OFB: In mid-90s, OFB started producing DRDO developed 125mm Mk-1 APFSDS with soft core.
- IA Designation: AMK 340
- However, army personnel lost lives when ammunition burst inside the tank barrel
- Investigation found that OFB was producing hybrid rounds where it was mating a foreign penetrator with indigenous shell but did not follow procedure leading to defective ammunition
- How many rounds were found to be defective? 140,000!!!
- This was almost 20% of the total holding of this type

(2) Ban on Israelis:

- Parallel to fiasco above and exigency of Op Parakaram led to import of +Israeli 125mm round
Designation: Israeli - CL 3254M/ Indian: AMK 340A (Pic)
- Apart from import, it was to be co-produced with OFB
- But here again, while imported ammo did OK, the one produced by OFB had QC issues.
- Because of QC issue, production numbers never stabilized and QC was achieved only by 2009.
- But what is worse is that production of DRDO Mk-1/AMK 340 125mm ammo was stopped in 2005
- And then, tragedy struck as IMI got blacklisted in 2010!
- So, between 2005-2010, there was hardly any production of APFSDS ammo.
- Not to mention that almost 20% of the stock made by OFB was defective

- It is in this gap, that IA had to resort to import of BM-42 'Mango' round DRDO in parallel is developing own Mk-2 125mm APFSDS which has quite similarities to the Israeli CL-3254M+

Summary:
- Russian BM-42 was a stop-gap measure to fill alarmingly low number of this type of ammo
- DRDO Mk-1 125mm/AMK 340 production was not stopped because it was defective
- But because OFB did not follow proper production process. It is all detailed in CAG Reports

- And here's another data-point about why IA imported BM-42 'Mango' from Russia and how OFB screwed-up:
Between 2008-09 and 2012-13, there was 92% short-fall in production of APFSDS by OFB against the indented numbers.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 07 Aug 2019 14:04

It's good that a chronicler & astute analyst such as yourself is back on this forum.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 07 Aug 2019 15:19

Manish_P wrote:It's good that a chronicler & astute analyst such as yourself is back on this forum.

And it's a pity that we have lost some others like him!!!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chola » 07 Aug 2019 15:34

We brought the Dhruv to the International Army Games in Russia! The Army Scout Master competition.

Looking very cool.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IndianDefenceRA/status/1158762866222096385

Indian Defence
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#ArmyScoutMastersCompetition Stage 1 commenced today with Helicopter Mounting & Dismounting Drills by the teams to infiltrate behind enemy lines. Later tonight teams will undertake Cross country navigation in harsh desert terrain of #Jaisalmer

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Image

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chola » 07 Aug 2019 15:51

Looks like the IA punted on the Tank Biathlon. Not a big loss since they never bring the Arjun anyways. The T-90s we brought in 2017 performed horribly and broke down so that we ended up in last place.

(We did far better with the generic Russkie T-72 -- the Russians cheat by using an uprated version -- and finished up in 5th or 6th place when we didn't bring our own tanks.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1158765162863611906

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Mind the heli ;)
By the way, possibly this year we aren't taking part into Tank Biathlon ...As I see no mention of Indian team in list

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 07 Aug 2019 17:07

hope all the lessons were not forgotten....
rohitvats did you hear about any lessons learnt/imbibed or viewpoints on this tank biathlons???

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 07 Aug 2019 19:25

ks_sachin wrote:
Manish_P wrote:It's good that a chronicler & astute analyst such as yourself is back on this forum.

And it's a pity that we have lost some others like him!!!


We thought we had lost him for good but he is back here isn't he.. Hope springs eternal :)

Being on BRF and getting to know our mil procurement system has almost turned me into a patient yogi

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 08 Aug 2019 21:38

Here is a map that I drew which gives a broad perspective of what was planned in winter of 1987:

(1) 02 pronged attack on Skardu:


- 1st: From Thoise - Turtok - Khapalu - Skardu along the alignment of Shyok River
- 2nd: From Kargil- along Shingo River, which then meets Indus - and flows towards Skardu. There exists a Skardu-Kargil road along this alignment.

- BTW, Shyok merges with Indus short of Skardu. So, the two attack would actually meet before hitting Skardu.
- Khapalu is base for Pakistan Army's Siachen operations; their Siachen dedicated brigade is based here. With Khapalu gone, Pakistan Army's hold on Central and Southern Siachen is also gone.

- Diversionary Attack:

- From Gurez - Minimarg - Burzil Pass - Astore - Gilgit
- This could be developed as 3rd prong towards Skardu as well by approaching Skardu through the Deosai Plains.

[edited Ramana]

Map with what was planned in 1987:
Image
Last edited by ramana on 08 Aug 2019 23:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited by ramana

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vidur » 08 Aug 2019 21:57

Good to see you back. Your insights are very useful. But please exercise caution when posting possible operational options even if they are from your thought process. Request you consider significantly edit/delete above.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 08 Aug 2019 22:10

Good caution.
Could already have been downloaded by pakis.
Besides if any one recalls Brig Zaheer Abbas(?), the ISI/military attache ,was expelled for having the Brasstacks plans in those heady days.

He later tried to do a coup in TSP and got jailed.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Aug 2019 23:05

rohiit sir, i love these details with but regards, may i ask mods and you, if it is good to have such operational details public..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 08 Aug 2019 23:40

Gentlemen, appreciate the concern but nothing above is of sensitive nature. Everything is from open source.

For example, the details of 1987 plan is from a book by Ravi Rikhye which was published in India by Chanakya Publications.

As for assessment and all that, similar thoughts are available in serious military writings on either side of the border.

You can trust me not to provide any sensitive information.

And in the interest of having good quality discussion, it is important to flesh out details. Remember the round table around Siachen with protagonists from both sides? We need more of it.

There are few people on BRF who go into details on these matters. Between them, we can have a proper in-depth analysis in such matters.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Y I Patel » 09 Aug 2019 07:13

Rohit

You had mentioned the road from Pathankot to Jammu and thence northwards in one of your posts, in the context of it being a vital artery that needs to be protected. I am happy to draw your attention to a road slowly coming up farther to the east of it: follow north from Pathankot to Dunera to Basohli via a spectacular bridge called Atal Setu, then to Sunal. Seems there are still raw stretches remaining, but the next link is Udhampur! If you google for news articles you will find out that a high load bearing bridges are slowly coming up along this route and pavement is being improved, and other roads and tunnels piercing through the Shivalikh range are also in the planning or slowly seeing development. In this context, the Bani-Basohli-Bhaderwah road project is a big one, with a proposed tunnel (Chattergala Pass) on it to make it all weather. There seem to be westward connections to the Jammu-Akhnoor-Rajuri route as well. These are quiet and frustratingly slow developments but you will appreciate how huge they are cumulatively! The area MP is Jitendra Prasad I believe, and he is a dynamo making things happen.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Y I Patel » 09 Aug 2019 07:33

Regarding the recent posts on Neelum (Kishen Ganga Valley) I had post on this following Pulwama attack when we were discussing different retaliation options. This is a useful supplement to what you mention above with your maps. Hope those that are already familiar with this do not mind the recycling of the original post...

India occupies dominating heights along the eastern and southern banks of the river, and since the 90s has on several occasions shut this valley down with shelling. So how has Pakistan been able to hold on to it? Simple - India has never tried to take over the whole valley. The Indian army reached this area in the 47 Kashmir War to throw out the invaders and protect the Kashmir Valley from a northerly access route, and they stopped at the valley because it offered a natural boundary. They probably felt that occupying additional territory in this area had diminishing marginal utility, since the area was and continues to be highly inaccessible from India even after some serious post-Kargil and Kishenganga hydro project related infra buildup. IA did occupy and retain a dominating feature in this area in 1972 to further consolidate dominance. On the other hand, the BSF had advanced to Minimarg in the upper reaches of the Kishenganga valley in 1972 but withdrew unilaterally for fear of over extension.

That said, the strategic calculus is very different in this age of Pakistan sponsored terror. The LoC in the central and lower KG (Kishenganga in this post, not Krishna Godavari) valley is heavily forested and ease of access has made it one of the most active infiltration routes - the infamous Kala Roos and Hafruda forests are close to the LoC here. Old time BRF member LNS is on record as wanting to burn down these forests because of the number of IA fatalities they claim in anti-terror operations. A lot of Paki IITs are located in this KG valley, making it an undeniable candidate if India wants to attack across LoC in self-defense in order to close major routes of terrorist infiltration.

But more than any of that, it is the increased activism of the current Modi government that opens up the most important strategic consideration associated with this valley: Burzil Pass. And let's be clear that now we are extending our discussion significantly beyond it's relationship with KG valley. Burzil Pass is about 15 km or so to the north of Minimarg - the KG valley radiates out to the south and west from it, which is why we are talking about it right now.

But there are two other two valleys connecting to this pass that are arguably even more strategically important. One is the Shingo River valley that radiates to the north and east and joins the Indus River to the north of... Kargil. It enters Indian Ladakh near Kaksar... sound familiar? Saurabh Kalia. Enough said.

And the third valley radiating out is the Astore valley to the west and north west. This valley directly leads to Skardu. The interesting thing about this route to Skardu is that it is actually the shortest route to Skardu form the LoC. In fact, this is a historical route into Kashmir Valley and is called the Srinagar Skardu road.

So here's the punch line: Burzil Pass is actually not that far from LoC. A branch of the Kishenganga actually cuts across the LoC from Minimarg in a southwesterly direction, so locally there are no accessibility issues even in winter. If India were to retake Burzil Pass (and let's be clear, this is a much bigger operation and a different kettle of fish than my original KG idea) then (a) India can move south along KG valley and slice of that valley, (b) move NE and clear the entire Kargil region of Paki intrusions and gain an additional easy access route to Kargil from the Kashmir valley, and (c) get dominating access to Deosai plateau and the road to Skardu and Gilgit.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 13 Aug 2019 03:45

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 651072.cms

Army may trim 27,000 from non-core units
extracted
The Army plans to reduce its manpower by around 27,000 soldiers in organisations not part of its regular field formations and units, which will entail a saving of about Rs 1,600 crore, as part of the overall strategy to right-size the 12.5-lakh force grappling with a huge revenue expenditure and salary bill.

and
“A new comprehensive study, chaired by the director-general (perspective planning) at the Army headquarters, has recommended the reduction of Army manpower in such organisations by about 27,000 personnel as well as their restructuring for better efficiency and effectiveness,” said a source.

The proposal, which aims to withdraw soldiers deployed in ‘non-core activities’ in such establishments called ‘composition table-2’ (CT-2) organisations, is now being forwarded to the defence ministry for approval,” he added. This proposed reduction is part of the larger reforms to transform the Army into a lean, mean, rapidly-deployable and operationally versatile force, which will among other things entail slashing manpower by around 1.5 lakh personnel over the next six-seven years to save around Rs6,000-Rs7,000 crore annually in revenue expenditure.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 21 Aug 2019 10:08

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 20197.html

Army revamp orders issued

extracts

The Ministry of Defence on Tuesday issued formal instructions on restructuring of the Indian Army headquarters that will result in reducing some 200 officers from Delhi besides creation of separate wings to deal with internal vigilance and human resource policies.

Called the Government Sanction Letter (GSL), the formal instructions were issued tonight, top sources in the Ministry of Defence confirmed to The Tribune.

The officers, who will be weaned off the headquarters, will be sent to formations. At present, there are an estimated 950 to 1,000 officers posted at the headquarters, located in Delhi.


and
The next part of the GSL that will issue instructions on merger of some directorates of the Army is expected after the one issued today. This includes merger two weapons and systems procurement agencies and created a new post of Deputy Chief who will coordinate with military intelligence, operations and logistics wings.

The next GSL is expected to create a new Deputy Chief to oversee strategy and operations, intelligence collation, conduct of operations and the movement of logistics. At present, the DG (Military Operations) and the DG (Military Intelligence) report to the Army Chief or Vice-Chief. Also, the restructuring will merge the Master General Ordnance (MGO), who is currently under the Vice-Chief, and the DG (Weapons and Equipment) under a single vertical with the Deputy Chief (Planning and Strategy), which will be renamed Capability Development.

Also expected is the creation of a consolidated information warfare wing that will subsume two existing wings under the DGMI and the DGMO. The DG (Military Training) will now be merged with the Shimla-based Army Training Command.


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