Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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chetak
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 08 Jan 2020 09:23

ramana wrote:The cartoon and your answer are political and should not be in this thread.
it should be in the Strat forum.


Saar, unable to delete the cartoon. Could you please do the needful.

Thanks

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Paul » 08 Jan 2020 10:20

Minor Trivia: Late Gen Hoon's DIL is Paki IIRC.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby manjgu » 08 Jan 2020 11:52

ArjunPandit wrote:sad news guys, Gen PN hoon passed away yesterday. His contribution in saving siachen from pakis was immense..a few days back only Rohit vats shared an image showing him in a pic mentioning that a call from RAW triggered op meghdoot...om shanti..he was cremated today in chd in sector 25 electric crematorium


not a call from RAW but based on inputs of col Bull Kumar who apprised MOD/Hoon of cartographic aggression of Napakis... and evidence that napakis were sending expeditions into siachen.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 08 Jan 2020 13:11

Om Shanti

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Jan 2020 20:21

manjgu wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:sad news guys, Gen PN hoon passed away yesterday. His contribution in saving siachen from pakis was immense..a few days back only Rohit vats shared an image showing him in a pic mentioning that a call from RAW triggered op meghdoot...om shanti..he was cremated today in chd in sector 25 electric crematorium


not a call from RAW but based on inputs of col Bull Kumar who apprised MOD/Hoon of cartographic aggression of Napakis... and evidence that napakis were sending expeditions into siachen.

the call came from london where pakis ordered mountain gear from the same shop indians used to order..that triggered things in motion..i think Bull's actions were 1-2 years before that...in fact pakis were planning to put boots before us ...we had in aug sept window, they planned in june july..we ended up in aprill..something like that..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby manjgu » 08 Jan 2020 20:51

well meghdoot was triggered based on inputs of col bull kumar...he impressed on the Army top brass the need to occupy saltoro... however timing of meghdoot was changed once Indians got to know of Paki shopping for same high alt equipment and wanted to pre empt PA on saltoro. even though there were grave concerns of going there in april..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby nam » 09 Jan 2020 15:01

IA has issued tech development RFP for T72/90 sabot at 530-550MM.

https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/689/EoI%20-%20125MM%20APFSDS%20Amn.pdf

There is only one entity who can develop these. I don't see how any private company can develop these without a tieup with DRDO.

The sabot is to be used with an existing barrel. Looks OFB was kept from complaining by giving them production of mango & arjun rounds..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby hnair » 09 Jan 2020 17:25

Op Meghdoot was 400% triggered by Col Bull Kumar's assessment after painstakingly climbing peaks etc, not any gora-tipoff, map shop etc. Outward magazine had a great long-form journalism article on it

Here is the 16 year old article about that saga, straight from horse' mouth. This is still is one of the best article I have come across, to get a feel of the crazy fighting conditions, although it is spoken from the POV of a white-mountaineering enthusiast and is less fawning of both India and pakis.

The Coldest War


Before leaving Pakistan, I heard quite a few remarks about Narinder "Bull" Kumar, a legendary Indian military man and mountaineer, and none of them were complimentary. "Colonel Kumar is the man who started all this," Major Tahir had fumed. "I have no wish to meet him—that ********." :lol:

The insults did little to prepare me for the bald, friendly man who was brimming with good humor and charm when we met at the New Delhi airport. Kumar, now 69, is short and powerful, still packed with thick muscle from his days as a climber. He has a thin white mustache, an endearing propensity for laughing at his own jokes, and an enormous fondness for beer. Kumar's family originally came from Rawalpindi and moved, just before Partition, to what is now the Indian state of Himachal Pradesh. After graduating from the Indian Military Academy in 1954, he joined the army and was earmarked for the cavalry. But in 1958 he got the chance to attend the Himalayan Mountaineering Institute in Darjeeling, run at the time by Tenzing Norgay, the Sherpa who summited Everest with Hillary. Inspired, Kumar flung himself into high-altitude mountaineering and began racking up notable achievements.

In 1965 he handled the logistics for India's first successful expedition to Everest, which placed nine men on the summit, then a record. In 1970 he led the first recognized ascent of 23,997-foot Chomo Lhari, the highest mountain in Bhutan. And in 1977 he headed up the first ascent of the difficult northeast spur of Kanchenjunga. The nickname Bull comes from his tendency to charge relentlessly into whatever he's doing. He's a national hero in India, the star of seven films, six books, and two postage stamps. These days he's a successful businessman in New Delhi and, with his 32-year-old son, Akshay, runs an adventure travel company called Mercury Himalayan Explorations, which we had hired for the task of getting us to the Siachen Glacier.

Kumar's involvement with the Siachen dates back to 1977, when he was approached by a German rafter who wanted to undertake the first descent of the Nubra River from its source at the snout of the glacier. The man brought Kumar a map of northeastern Kashmir that had an unusual feature. Beyond NJ9842, the point where the Kashmir cease-fire line ends and an invisible line was supposed to run "thence north to the glaciers," the map depicted a straight line canting off at a dramatic northeastern angle and terminating on the Chinese border at Karakoram Pass. The story behind this line, which suggested that the Siachen Glacier lay squarely inside Pakistan, remains mysterious to this day. One theory, however, is that it was drawn by the U.S. military.

Back in 1962, India and China got into a brief war over the Aksai Chin, a 15,440-square-mile section of high desert east of the Karakoram that was claimed by both countries. Several months before the fighting ended (resulting in a crushing defeat for India), the U.S. government provided an airlift to aid beleaguered Indian troops. Five years later, the U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, a division of the Defense Department, published a Tactical Pilotage Chart for northern Kashmir. :evil: TPCs, which are designed to help military pilots avoid trespassing into another country's airspace, sometimes delineate borders by making reference to prominent geographical features easily distinguishable from the air. Karakoram Pass, which stands out among an otherwise indistinguishable sea of snow-capped peaks, was one of these.

Whatever its murky origins may have been, the DMA's Tactical Pilotage Chart for 1967 was the first recorded instance of the line connecting NJ9842 to Karakoram Pass. Over the next several years, it was reproduced by some of the most prominent publishers in international cartography, which often use DMA maps as a source of information. "When I saw this map," Kumar told me, "it didn't take more than a split second to say it was wrong! I was the one who discovered this."

In short order, Kumar got his hands on journal reports from the international expeditions that had traveled from Pakistan into the Siachen. In January 1978, he took his findings to Lieutenant General M. L. Chibber, India's director of military operations. Chibber quickly obtained permission for Kumar to mount a reconnaissance expedition to the Siachen. That summer Kumar led 40 climbers and 30 porters up to the glacier's halfway point, and from there a summit team of three completed an ascent of 24,297-foot Teram Kangri II. The team also came across the sort of evidence that Chibber was looking for.

"We found labels from tin cans and cigarette packs with Pakistani names, German and Japanese equipment," recalled Kumar. "It was this that convinced the government of India that Pakistan was going where it should not have been."

In the summer of 1981, Kumar went back with a 70-member team and completed a snout-to-source traverse of the glacier. In eight weeks, they climbed Saltoro Kangri I (25,400 feet) and Sia Kangri I (24,350), hiked to the top of Indira Col (the watershed at the north end of the glacier), and skied Bilafond La.

"There wasn't a soul there," Kumar recalled of those adventures. "There was so much to climb—so many uncharted high peaks! And those pinnacles—rock pinnacles going straight up! And small glacial streams—so blue and so cold! The view from Sia Kangri looking down on the Siachen was such a beautiful sight. Just like a great white snake... going, going, going. I have never seen anything so white and so wide."

Later that year, Kumar published an account of his journeys in the newsmagazine Illustrated Weekly of India. This set off alarms in Pakistan, and by the summer of 1983 military expeditions were probing the glacier on both sides. By then Chibber had been sent to Leh and was running India's Northern Command. He concluded that the only way to secure the glacier was to preempt the Pakistanis and seize Bilafond La and Sia La. In mid-April 1984, two platoons of Ladakh Scouts were airlifted onto the Siachen. On April 17, two Pakistani helicopters were sent out for reconnaissance, one of them piloted by Colonel Muhammad Farooq Altaf. They reached Sia La that afternoon.

"We could see a party of Indian soldiers," 8) 8) 8) recalled Altaf, who is now retired and lives in Islamabad. "I was in the number-two helicopter, and the number-one helicopter had just turned back when one chap started firing. In our postflight check after returning to Dansam, we found bullet holes near the tail rotor. These were the first-ever bullets fired in Siachen." He shook his head and smiled. "They beat us by one week. Too bad."

General Chibber's strategy had worked. But he soon realized that if they wanted to retain control of the passes, Indian troops would have to spend the winter at altitude. This was a new kind of warfare, and Chibber used every trick he could think of to stack the odds in India's favor. He flew in prefabricated fiberglass igloos designed for Antarctic expeditions. He persuaded the Dalai Lama to confer a special blessing on a set of silk bracelets for the Ladakhi troops. In February 1985, the Pakistanis attacked Bilafond La but failed to dislodge the Indian troops. When spring arrived, Chibber's men were still in place.

"And that's when the race started," recalls Brigadier Muhammad Bashir Baz, who commanded a Pakistani helicopter unit in the Siachen theater from 1987 to 1989. "Each side started climbing any peak they could. Then the other side would go and occupy a neighboring higher peak. And so on, and so on, until they reached 22,000 feet. That is how this war unfolded."

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Kakarat » 09 Jan 2020 18:11

https://twitter.com/NorthernComd_IA/sta ... 6753990658
Image
Image
Image
Image

Note the Sholder rank epaulettes has moves to the chest

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby fanne » 09 Jan 2020 19:54

Is there a story here. Mihir shah who runs a OSNIT handle (and gets banned by twitter, supposedly on account of TSP complains) is tweeting to Rahul Kanwal on some brigadier towing company line and ready to give Siachin to TSP. Is that Brigadier 'known' to Mr. Kanwal and does that explain him siding with the wrong side (another army kid keeps on siding with the right side in contrast). Anyone knows more about it?

https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1215031009822957568

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 09 Jan 2020 20:25

^^thanks for the correction sir, i always thought call from RAW was the main trigger to accelerate..

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2020 03:17

Mihir Shah s a member here.
And yes Rahul should know the retired brigadier very well.
Most likely meets him everyday.

And you also know who it is if you go back to the UPA shenanigans on Siachen peace park.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2020 03:29

1983 was a special year for the Antarctica expeditions had started.
Dakshin Gangotri was established

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Antarctic_Program

Thats how those igloos were available for 1984.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Mihir » 11 Jan 2020 00:25

I got banned by Twitter? Hain jee, when did this happen?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Chinmay » 11 Jan 2020 11:59

You got banned because of your spectacular OSINT, Mihir. DGISPR feels threatened

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 14 Jan 2020 11:08

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 236702.cms

New Army deputy-chief to look after ops & strategic planning post-Doklam
excerpts
The 1.3 million-strong Army has cleared the decks for creation of the new crucial post of deputy chief (strategy), as part of the overall restructuring and flattening of the Army headquarters, by shifting the entire Rashtriya Rifles (RR) directorate from New Delhi to the Northern Command in Kashmir.
The need for the new post of Deputy Chief of Army Staff (Strategy) or DCOAS (S) was acutely felt during the 73-day troop confrontation between
India and China at Doklam near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction in June-August 2017, which saw the two rival armies move additional infantry
battalions, tanks, artillery and missile units towards the border. The DCOAS (S) will have the directors-general of military operations (DGMO), military intelligence (DGMI), operational logistics (DGOL), perspective planning (DGPP) and information warfare (DGIW) under him at the Army HQs. “As of now, an ad hoc committee is constituted to handle operations, plans, logistics etc during a crisis like Doklam. There is no unity in structure and chain of command among different verticals. In the future, the five DGs will jointly brief the DCOAS (S) during any major crisis,”


The DCOS (S) will be in lieu of the DGRR post

As was earlier reported by TOI, this Army HQs’ restructuring will lead to the shifting out of over 100 officers to operational field formations. In another significant change, the existing post of DCOAS (planning and systems) will transform into the DCOAS (capability development and sustenance), with all capital and revenue procurements under him. “Ammunition procurements, for instance, were being handled by different capital and revenue verticals during the Doklam crisis,” said another officer. Similarly, the DCOAS (information systems and training) will change to DCOAS (information systems and coordination). The post of DGMT (military training), in turn, will be subsumed under the Army Training Command, whose HQs will be shifted to Meerut from Shimla. The RR directorate at the Udhampur-based Northern Command will now be headed by a Major General or ADG.


more on RR
First raised as a small force in 1990 to handle specialised counter-insurgency operations in J&K, the RR now has 63 battalions (almost 70,000 soldiers) divided into five division-like headquarters commanded by Major Generals. They are Delta Force (Doda district), Kilo Force (Kupwara and Baramulla), Romeo Force (Rajouri and Poonch), Victor Force (Anantnag, Pulwama and Budgam) and Uniform Force (Udhampur and Reasi). “If the RR is deployed only in J&K, there is no need to have a DGRR in New Delhi,” said another officer.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Shameek » 17 Jan 2020 21:39

Army day parade coverage.


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 Jan 2020 22:07

fanne wrote:Is there a story here. Mihir shah who runs a OSNIT handle (and gets banned by twitter, supposedly on account of TSP complains) is tweeting to Rahul Kanwal on some brigadier towing company line and ready to give Siachin to TSP. Is that Brigadier 'known' to Mr. Kanwal and does that explain him siding with the wrong side (another army kid keeps on siding with the right side in contrast). Anyone knows more about it?

https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1215031009822957568


Is rahul kanwal related to Siachin vacating advocate gurmeet kanwal?

Are they father son?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby manjgu » 18 Jan 2020 09:31

Yes sir ..father son

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 18 Jan 2020 19:44

twitter


No more British tune at Beating Retreat.

‘Vande Mataram’ will replace Christian hymn ‘Abide With Me’

A change for good after years of Independence.



No more British tune at Beating Retreat: ‘Vande Mataram’ will replace Christian hymn ‘Abide With Me’



No more British tune at Beating Retreat: ‘Vande Mataram’ will replace Christian hymn ‘Abide With Me’

by Akshay Narang
17 January 2020

In what could be a major step towards shedding the colonial hangover, recent reports suggest that the Defence Ministry has dropped the Christian hymn, Abide with me from the list of tunes to be played at the Beating Retreat on January 29 this year. The Beating Retreat, which is the last event in the Republic Day celebrations and marks their culmination, has traditionally concluded with the Abide with me hymn.

If sources quoted by various media outlets are to be believed, Vande Mataram, India’s National Song, is likely to replace Abide with me. A defence ministry source, speaking on the condition of anonymity has been quoted as saying, “The tune has been dropped this year.” He added, “There is a review of tunes every year. There is an effort to introduce new tunes and an emphasis to add more Indian tunes.”

According to The Print, the tunes for Beating the Retreat ceremony are decided by the ceremonial and welfare directorate under Adjutant General’s branch of the Army headquarters, in consultation with the Ministry of Defence. The latter’s decision prevails with regard to selection of tunes.

The likely move of dropping Abide with me and playing Vande Mataram instead is largely in line with Modi government’s sustained efforts of getting out of the colonial hangover and Indianising the Republic Day celebrations, including the 45-minute long Beating the Retreat ceremony.

It was in the year 2015, it was for the first time in India’s history that classical Indian instruments were played alongside the colonial-era military bands at Beating the Retreat ceremony. Classical instruments like the sitar, santoor and tabla debuted at the major ceremony, which marks the culmination of the Republic Day celebrations.

Last year, the ‘Shankhnaad’, first original martial tune of independent India was played during the Republic Day parade in place of the martial tune which has been played since the colonial days. The tune glorifies the achievements and contribution of the Mahar Regiment.

In 2018, Beating the Retreat ceremony marked a big change as 25 out of 26 tunes played by bands of the Army, Navy Air Force, and Central Armed Police Forces at the ceremony were composed by Indians, and the only Western tune played at the iconic ceremony was Abide with me. Now, this Christian hymn too seems all set to be dropped from the Beating the Retreat ceremony.

It must be mentioned here that Abide with me has been played at every Beating the Retreat ceremony since 1950. The Nehruvian era that immediately followed the colonial era never really had the political will to dismantle the colonial legacy. Successive Congress governments never made even a half-hearted attempt at Indianisation. It is only after the Modi government came to power that there are clear indications of a thorough Indianisation of the Republic Day celebrations, including Beating the Retreat ceremony, as India successfully steers its way out of the colonial era hangover.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Arun.prabhu » 18 Jan 2020 21:43

Abide with me is about asking God to protect and succor us when all hope is lost. Nothing wrong and in fact, everything right about that. What does it matter if it is a christian God or one of our millions of devas so long as God protects our nation and our soldiers in war and peace?

I view this tweet in the same vein as the name changes of Madras, Bangalore and Bombay. Pointless pettifoggery. So what if the damned English ruled us for two hundred years? Are we still so lacking in confidence that we have to change names or do something simple to feel strong and manly. We are better men than them though our forefathers may have faltered in their steps for those two hundred years and we will rise to greater heights than our forefathers ever dreamed of rising.

Small minds. We should be aiming for the stars because that is our destiny.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby uddu » 18 Jan 2020 22:17

Not all gods are the same. Some gods says I'm the only one and others are fake. Fundamentalism was not invented in India, thankfully. Also we are so overwhelmingly confident that we may ask British to Sing VandeMataram and adopt it as their national anthem for coming to India and being part of Indian history for sometime.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Arun.prabhu » 19 Jan 2020 00:05

LOL Okay. Rejecting their God gives you power? I'm self confident enough to look down on white men. I'm their equal or better. If you need these silly stunts or think that forcing them to play Vande Mataram is how you'll be their equal or superior, then who am I to stop you? By all means, don't stop with these silly renamings and pointless nothings. Reject everything English in our nation. Bring back Sati, bring back our useless ****** monarchies who gifted India to a trading corporation because they could never see past their noses and bring back the varna system!

uddu wrote:Not all gods are the same. Some gods says I'm the only one and others are fake. Fundamentalism was not invented in India, thankfully. Also we are so overwhelmingly confident that we may ask British to Sing VandeMataram and adopt it as their national anthem for coming to India and being part of Indian history for sometime.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby sudham » 19 Jan 2020 00:07

On Operation Meghdoot, if I remember right, while Col. Kumar did identify the fact that Siachen was being claimed by Pakistan and the Indian army was putting a plan in place, the RAW input helped to speedup the process.
Link from India Today archive for reference - https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis ... 2019-08-09
Talks about a lot more than Siachen !

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Karan M » 19 Jan 2020 14:56

1. You brought religion into the discussion, which was completely unnecessary
2. Now you are making pointless remarks on India bereft of historical context and giving undue credit to the Brits
3. Stop making racially tinged posts about "looking down on white men"
4. The GOI has the prerogative to replace anything colonial with a local variant
5. Any further posts on this topic will result in a warning as these posts are leading to a thread disruption from what should be a serious discussion

Note: Same applies to all those who want to reply further and deviate the topic. Stop.

Arun.prabhu wrote:LOL Okay. Rejecting their God gives you power? I'm self confident enough to look down on white men. I'm their equal or better. If you need these silly stunts or think that forcing them to play Vande Mataram is how you'll be their equal or superior, then who am I to stop you? By all means, don't stop with these silly renamings and pointless nothings. Reject everything English in our nation. Bring back Sati, bring back our useless ****** monarchies who gifted India to a trading corporation because they could never see past their noses and bring back the varna system!

uddu wrote:Not all gods are the same. Some gods says I'm the only one and others are fake. Fundamentalism was not invented in India, thankfully. Also we are so overwhelmingly confident that we may ask British to Sing VandeMataram and adopt it as their national anthem for coming to India and being part of Indian history for sometime.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby uddu » 19 Jan 2020 16:01

<Poof>

Admin Note: Please co-operate. No more flaming of each other.
Last edited by hnair on 19 Jan 2020 16:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: An admin has warned not to react, but user has decided to ignore. Informal warning

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Arun.prabhu » 19 Jan 2020 16:10

<POOF>

Admin note: A long ramble that is OT for this thread
Last edited by hnair on 19 Jan 2020 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Blanked out a post that persisted with a line of reasoning, despite an admin caution above

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby jaysimha » 20 Jan 2020 14:56

Image
Colonel P Hani awarded by PM Date :18-Jan-2020
Colonel P Hani, Sena Medal, who is posted as the Head of the Computer Systems Department at Military College, Secunderabad was awarded by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the occasion of Army Day 2020 for his outstanding contribution in the field of innovation and scientific temper

https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/1/18/Colonel-P-Hani-awarded-by-PM.html

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby jaysimha » 20 Jan 2020 15:07

Image

Narendra Modi on Twitter: "Today, on Army Day, attended the ...
https://images.app.goo.gl/VtRJRBDwvzoFEoLF9

I dont know what prevents PIB baboons to proudly publish all the awardee's details and their contributions...
Last edited by jaysimha on 20 Jan 2020 16:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby jaysimha » 20 Jan 2020 16:49



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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Sanju » 26 Jan 2020 06:20

Shaurya Chakra awarded to 6 IA soldiers this Republic Day, one of them sadly being posthumously.

Nb Sub. Sombit, SC(P)
Lt Col Jyoti Lama and
Maj K B Singh
Nb Sub Narender Singh
Nk Naresh Kumar
Sep Karmdeo Oraon
The Shaurya Chakra is an Indian military decoration awarded for valour, courageous action or self-sacrifice while not engaged in direct action with the enemy. It may be awarded to civilians as well as military personnel, sometimes posthumously. It is third in order of precedence of peacetime gallantry awards and comes after the Ashoka Chakra and the Kirti Chakra. It precedes the Sena Medal.....

<snip>
It is the peacetime equivalent of the Vir Chakra. It is generally awarded for Counter-Insurgency operations and actions against the enemy during peace-time.


ADG PI

Lt Col Jyoti Lama and Sep Karmdeo Oraon displayed conspicuous courage & bravery in counter terrorism operations. Awarded #ShauryaChakra


Maj K B Singh, Nb Sub Narender Singh , Nb Sub Sombir and Nk Naresh Kumar Rifles displayed conspicuous courage & bravery in counter terrorism operations. Awarded #ShauryaChakra


The Shaurya Chakra is awarded for gallantry other than in the face of the enemy.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vips » 27 Jan 2020 08:30

Army stocking up munitions for 40-day war.

The 13-lakh strong Army is now slowly but steadily building tank and artillery shells to ensure it can comfortably fight a full-blown war for over 10 days, with the eventual aim to have adequate stockpiles in place to last 40 days.

Defence ministry sources say all the different types of ammunition for the Army will be built up to “10(I) levels”, which mean adequate stocks to
undertake 10 days of “intensive” full-spectrum fighting, by 2022-2023, as per the latest assessment.

This, of course, does not mean the Army is not operationally ready for war as of now. “It is, especially on the western front. But ammunition reserves have to be built keeping both Pakistan and China in mind,” said a source.

The “earlier huge deficiencies” in several types of “critical” ammunition have already been “substantially plugged”, with more supplies in the pipeline under the 24 contracts (19 with foreign arms companies) worth Rs 12,890 crore inked for the Army.

“The next target will be to gradually achieve 40(I) levels after some major rationalisation because not all types of ammunition are needed in such large numbers. Holding large reserves is neither economically nor logistically feasible,” said the source.

The MoD is also in the process of contracting the domestic private sector to manufacture with foreign collaboration eight different types of tank, artillery and infantry ammunition worth around Rs 1,700 crore per year for a decade from 2022-2023 onwards.

Over the last several years, at least since 2012, TOI has repeatedly reported the Army was fast running out of ammunition, with tanks and air defence units, artillery batteries and infantry soldiers all facing the crunch under the hugely depleted war wastage reserves (WWR). Successive parliamentary and CAG reports have also underscored the critical operational deficiency.

But it took the Uri terror attack in September 2016 for the government to swing into action and delegate financial powers t o the Army, Navy and IAF for “emergency and critical 10(I) contracts” after finding that the armed forces simply did not have enough ammunition stocks for a prolonged full-fledged war.

Since then, contracts worth over Rs 24,000 crore for ammunition, spares, engines and other reserves have been inked for the three Services. The Army, for instance, is getting Smerch rockets, Konkurs anti-tank guided missiles, 125mm APFSDS (armourpiercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot) ammunition for its T-90S and T-72 tanks and other ammunition under the 19 contracts inked mainly with Russian and some other foreign companies.

The defence ministry is also working to improve the functioning and quality control of the 41 factories under the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), which supplies around 90 of the total 163 types of ammunition used by the Army.

This came after the Army sounded the alarm about the unacceptably high number of accidents taking place due to the defective quality of ammunition being supplied for tanks, artillery, air defence and other guns by the OFB as well as the huge slippages in supply, as was reported by TOI in May last year.

Just last month, the CAG had again slammed the OFB for compromising operational military readiness by failing to meet “a significant quantity” of the Army’s requirements as well as supplying defective fuses leading to multiple accidents.

The Army, on its part, wants accountability to be fixed on those responsible for faulty quality checks and defective ammunition, which are leading to frequent accidents during firings of 105mm Indian field guns, 105mm light field guns, 130mm MA1 medium guns, 40mm L-70 air defence guns as well as the main guns of the T-72, T-90 and Arjun main-battle tanks.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Nikhil T » 27 Jan 2020 10:00

40 day war reserves is going to be terribly expensive, with ordnance needing proper storage, servicing and replacement. I don’t see how a 40 day intense war is possible in this day and age, where international intervention would be quick to stop any prolonged war between nuclear armed countries. Seeing as how this is an Army project, this might also starve IAF and IN of funding.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Jan 2020 10:20

If you want to win a war you need numbers, we cant have Armymen husbanding stocks in war. 40 day war wastage will allow the Army to go all out for 15 days which can be decisive.

Its not just fighting Pakistan but dettering everyone else from helping Pakistan.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 27 Jan 2020 10:25

Any international intervention will be against national interest as far as India is concerned. Considering that there is a huge anti India prejudice in international left EJ and Peaceful lobbies which continue to hold huge power over what is considered or "international opinion" we may not plan our war planing on any quick international intervention which results in any benefit to us.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Prem Kumar » 27 Jan 2020 10:53

This "international intervention will happen in 1 week" seems to be an article of faith that many seem to have internalized. As others have mentioned above, we should fight on our terms and to achieve our goals, however long that takes. If it takes 40 days, so be it.

We should also strengthen (rather build up) our MIC, so that, even after 40 days, our industries can pump out weapons that we can fight with.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Philip » 27 Jan 2020 11:04

This is the best news one has heard for a long,long,time.Despite all the hooplah about new weaponry,etc.,etc.,being inducted, ultimately the side that runs out of bullets and shells meets a sticky end. Earlier,we were reading reports about efforts being on to enable us to fight an intensive war for 10 days. Stories about Pak's limitations beyong a week were plentiful,but China has such huge stocks that it can fight for months. The shoddy performance of the OFB was a contributing factor with so much of dud ammo,costing hundreds of millions dumped. The IA is quite right to demand accountability for those responsible for so many firing
accidents,wounding and
possibly killing. After all,it has also footed the billfor the duds!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 27 Jan 2020 12:30

What a pic

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_Sharma » 27 Jan 2020 16:19

Nikhil T wrote:40 day war reserves is going to be terribly expensive, with ordnance needing proper storage, servicing and replacement. I don’t see how a 40 day intense war is possible in this day and age, where international intervention would be quick to stop any prolonged war between nuclear armed countries. Seeing as how this is an Army project, this might also starve IAF and IN of funding.


From gujral to Manmohan, Antonia and ak Antony trio the aim was to asphyxiate armed FORCES OFFENSIVE CAPABILITIES and weaken them deliberately. Now Nationalist Govt's correcting it.


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