ramana wrote:The cartoon and your answer are political and should not be in this thread.
it should be in the Strat forum.
Saar, unable to delete the cartoon. Could you please do the needful.
ramana wrote:The cartoon and your answer are political and should not be in this thread.
it should be in the Strat forum.
ArjunPandit wrote:sad news guys, Gen PN hoon passed away yesterday. His contribution in saving siachen from pakis was immense..a few days back only Rohit vats shared an image showing him in a pic mentioning that a call from RAW triggered op meghdoot...om shanti..he was cremated today in chd in sector 25 electric crematorium
manjgu wrote:ArjunPandit wrote:sad news guys, Gen PN hoon passed away yesterday. His contribution in saving siachen from pakis was immense..a few days back only Rohit vats shared an image showing him in a pic mentioning that a call from RAW triggered op meghdoot...om shanti..he was cremated today in chd in sector 25 electric crematorium
not a call from RAW but based on inputs of col Bull Kumar who apprised MOD/Hoon of cartographic aggression of Napakis... and evidence that napakis were sending expeditions into siachen.
Before leaving Pakistan, I heard quite a few remarks about Narinder "Bull" Kumar, a legendary Indian military man and mountaineer, and none of them were complimentary. "Colonel Kumar is the man who started all this," Major Tahir had fumed. "I have no wish to meet him—that ********."
The insults did little to prepare me for the bald, friendly man who was brimming with good humor and charm when we met at the New Delhi airport. Kumar, now 69, is short and powerful, still packed with thick muscle from his days as a climber. He has a thin white mustache, an endearing propensity for laughing at his own jokes, and an enormous fondness for beer. Kumar's family originally came from Rawalpindi and moved, just before Partition, to what is now the Indian state of Himachal Pradesh. After graduating from the Indian Military Academy in 1954, he joined the army and was earmarked for the cavalry. But in 1958 he got the chance to attend the Himalayan Mountaineering Institute in Darjeeling, run at the time by Tenzing Norgay, the Sherpa who summited Everest with Hillary. Inspired, Kumar flung himself into high-altitude mountaineering and began racking up notable achievements.
In 1965 he handled the logistics for India's first successful expedition to Everest, which placed nine men on the summit, then a record. In 1970 he led the first recognized ascent of 23,997-foot Chomo Lhari, the highest mountain in Bhutan. And in 1977 he headed up the first ascent of the difficult northeast spur of Kanchenjunga. The nickname Bull comes from his tendency to charge relentlessly into whatever he's doing. He's a national hero in India, the star of seven films, six books, and two postage stamps. These days he's a successful businessman in New Delhi and, with his 32-year-old son, Akshay, runs an adventure travel company called Mercury Himalayan Explorations, which we had hired for the task of getting us to the Siachen Glacier.
Kumar's involvement with the Siachen dates back to 1977, when he was approached by a German rafter who wanted to undertake the first descent of the Nubra River from its source at the snout of the glacier. The man brought Kumar a map of northeastern Kashmir that had an unusual feature. Beyond NJ9842, the point where the Kashmir cease-fire line ends and an invisible line was supposed to run "thence north to the glaciers," the map depicted a straight line canting off at a dramatic northeastern angle and terminating on the Chinese border at Karakoram Pass. The story behind this line, which suggested that the Siachen Glacier lay squarely inside Pakistan, remains mysterious to this day. One theory, however, is that it was drawn by the U.S. military.
Back in 1962, India and China got into a brief war over the Aksai Chin, a 15,440-square-mile section of high desert east of the Karakoram that was claimed by both countries. Several months before the fighting ended (resulting in a crushing defeat for India), the U.S. government provided an airlift to aid beleaguered Indian troops. Five years later, the U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, a division of the Defense Department, published a Tactical Pilotage Chart for northern Kashmir. TPCs, which are designed to help military pilots avoid trespassing into another country's airspace, sometimes delineate borders by making reference to prominent geographical features easily distinguishable from the air. Karakoram Pass, which stands out among an otherwise indistinguishable sea of snow-capped peaks, was one of these.
Whatever its murky origins may have been, the DMA's Tactical Pilotage Chart for 1967 was the first recorded instance of the line connecting NJ9842 to Karakoram Pass. Over the next several years, it was reproduced by some of the most prominent publishers in international cartography, which often use DMA maps as a source of information. "When I saw this map," Kumar told me, "it didn't take more than a split second to say it was wrong! I was the one who discovered this."
In short order, Kumar got his hands on journal reports from the international expeditions that had traveled from Pakistan into the Siachen. In January 1978, he took his findings to Lieutenant General M. L. Chibber, India's director of military operations. Chibber quickly obtained permission for Kumar to mount a reconnaissance expedition to the Siachen. That summer Kumar led 40 climbers and 30 porters up to the glacier's halfway point, and from there a summit team of three completed an ascent of 24,297-foot Teram Kangri II. The team also came across the sort of evidence that Chibber was looking for.
"We found labels from tin cans and cigarette packs with Pakistani names, German and Japanese equipment," recalled Kumar. "It was this that convinced the government of India that Pakistan was going where it should not have been."
In the summer of 1981, Kumar went back with a 70-member team and completed a snout-to-source traverse of the glacier. In eight weeks, they climbed Saltoro Kangri I (25,400 feet) and Sia Kangri I (24,350), hiked to the top of Indira Col (the watershed at the north end of the glacier), and skied Bilafond La.
"There wasn't a soul there," Kumar recalled of those adventures. "There was so much to climb—so many uncharted high peaks! And those pinnacles—rock pinnacles going straight up! And small glacial streams—so blue and so cold! The view from Sia Kangri looking down on the Siachen was such a beautiful sight. Just like a great white snake... going, going, going. I have never seen anything so white and so wide."
Later that year, Kumar published an account of his journeys in the newsmagazine Illustrated Weekly of India. This set off alarms in Pakistan, and by the summer of 1983 military expeditions were probing the glacier on both sides. By then Chibber had been sent to Leh and was running India's Northern Command. He concluded that the only way to secure the glacier was to preempt the Pakistanis and seize Bilafond La and Sia La. In mid-April 1984, two platoons of Ladakh Scouts were airlifted onto the Siachen. On April 17, two Pakistani helicopters were sent out for reconnaissance, one of them piloted by Colonel Muhammad Farooq Altaf. They reached Sia La that afternoon.
"We could see a party of Indian soldiers," recalled Altaf, who is now retired and lives in Islamabad. "I was in the number-two helicopter, and the number-one helicopter had just turned back when one chap started firing. In our postflight check after returning to Dansam, we found bullet holes near the tail rotor. These were the first-ever bullets fired in Siachen." He shook his head and smiled. "They beat us by one week. Too bad."
General Chibber's strategy had worked. But he soon realized that if they wanted to retain control of the passes, Indian troops would have to spend the winter at altitude. This was a new kind of warfare, and Chibber used every trick he could think of to stack the odds in India's favor. He flew in prefabricated fiberglass igloos designed for Antarctic expeditions. He persuaded the Dalai Lama to confer a special blessing on a set of silk bracelets for the Ladakhi troops. In February 1985, the Pakistanis attacked Bilafond La but failed to dislodge the Indian troops. When spring arrived, Chibber's men were still in place.
"And that's when the race started," recalls Brigadier Muhammad Bashir Baz, who commanded a Pakistani helicopter unit in the Siachen theater from 1987 to 1989. "Each side started climbing any peak they could. Then the other side would go and occupy a neighboring higher peak. And so on, and so on, until they reached 22,000 feet. That is how this war unfolded."
The 1.3 million-strong Army has cleared the decks for creation of the new crucial post of deputy chief (strategy), as part of the overall restructuring and flattening of the Army headquarters, by shifting the entire Rashtriya Rifles (RR) directorate from New Delhi to the Northern Command in Kashmir.
The need for the new post of Deputy Chief of Army Staff (Strategy) or DCOAS (S) was acutely felt during the 73-day troop confrontation between
India and China at Doklam near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction in June-August 2017, which saw the two rival armies move additional infantry
battalions, tanks, artillery and missile units towards the border. The DCOAS (S) will have the directors-general of military operations (DGMO), military intelligence (DGMI), operational logistics (DGOL), perspective planning (DGPP) and information warfare (DGIW) under him at the Army HQs. “As of now, an ad hoc committee is constituted to handle operations, plans, logistics etc during a crisis like Doklam. There is no unity in structure and chain of command among different verticals. In the future, the five DGs will jointly brief the DCOAS (S) during any major crisis,”
As was earlier reported by TOI, this Army HQs’ restructuring will lead to the shifting out of over 100 officers to operational field formations. In another significant change, the existing post of DCOAS (planning and systems) will transform into the DCOAS (capability development and sustenance), with all capital and revenue procurements under him. “Ammunition procurements, for instance, were being handled by different capital and revenue verticals during the Doklam crisis,” said another officer. Similarly, the DCOAS (information systems and training) will change to DCOAS (information systems and coordination). The post of DGMT (military training), in turn, will be subsumed under the Army Training Command, whose HQs will be shifted to Meerut from Shimla. The RR directorate at the Udhampur-based Northern Command will now be headed by a Major General or ADG.
First raised as a small force in 1990 to handle specialised counter-insurgency operations in J&K, the RR now has 63 battalions (almost 70,000 soldiers) divided into five division-like headquarters commanded by Major Generals. They are Delta Force (Doda district), Kilo Force (Kupwara and Baramulla), Romeo Force (Rajouri and Poonch), Victor Force (Anantnag, Pulwama and Budgam) and Uniform Force (Udhampur and Reasi). “If the RR is deployed only in J&K, there is no need to have a DGRR in New Delhi,” said another officer.
fanne wrote:Is there a story here. Mihir shah who runs a OSNIT handle (and gets banned by twitter, supposedly on account of TSP complains) is tweeting to Rahul Kanwal on some brigadier towing company line and ready to give Siachin to TSP. Is that Brigadier 'known' to Mr. Kanwal and does that explain him siding with the wrong side (another army kid keeps on siding with the right side in contrast). Anyone knows more about it?
No more British tune at Beating Retreat.
‘Vande Mataram’ will replace Christian hymn ‘Abide With Me’
A change for good after years of Independence.
No more British tune at Beating Retreat: ‘Vande Mataram’ will replace Christian hymn ‘Abide With Me’
by Akshay Narang
17 January 2020
In what could be a major step towards shedding the colonial hangover, recent reports suggest that the Defence Ministry has dropped the Christian hymn, Abide with me from the list of tunes to be played at the Beating Retreat on January 29 this year. The Beating Retreat, which is the last event in the Republic Day celebrations and marks their culmination, has traditionally concluded with the Abide with me hymn.
If sources quoted by various media outlets are to be believed, Vande Mataram, India’s National Song, is likely to replace Abide with me. A defence ministry source, speaking on the condition of anonymity has been quoted as saying, “The tune has been dropped this year.” He added, “There is a review of tunes every year. There is an effort to introduce new tunes and an emphasis to add more Indian tunes.”
According to The Print, the tunes for Beating the Retreat ceremony are decided by the ceremonial and welfare directorate under Adjutant General’s branch of the Army headquarters, in consultation with the Ministry of Defence. The latter’s decision prevails with regard to selection of tunes.
The likely move of dropping Abide with me and playing Vande Mataram instead is largely in line with Modi government’s sustained efforts of getting out of the colonial hangover and Indianising the Republic Day celebrations, including the 45-minute long Beating the Retreat ceremony.
It was in the year 2015, it was for the first time in India’s history that classical Indian instruments were played alongside the colonial-era military bands at Beating the Retreat ceremony. Classical instruments like the sitar, santoor and tabla debuted at the major ceremony, which marks the culmination of the Republic Day celebrations.
Last year, the ‘Shankhnaad’, first original martial tune of independent India was played during the Republic Day parade in place of the martial tune which has been played since the colonial days. The tune glorifies the achievements and contribution of the Mahar Regiment.
In 2018, Beating the Retreat ceremony marked a big change as 25 out of 26 tunes played by bands of the Army, Navy Air Force, and Central Armed Police Forces at the ceremony were composed by Indians, and the only Western tune played at the iconic ceremony was Abide with me. Now, this Christian hymn too seems all set to be dropped from the Beating the Retreat ceremony.
It must be mentioned here that Abide with me has been played at every Beating the Retreat ceremony since 1950. The Nehruvian era that immediately followed the colonial era never really had the political will to dismantle the colonial legacy. Successive Congress governments never made even a half-hearted attempt at Indianisation. It is only after the Modi government came to power that there are clear indications of a thorough Indianisation of the Republic Day celebrations, including Beating the Retreat ceremony, as India successfully steers its way out of the colonial era hangover.
uddu wrote:Not all gods are the same. Some gods says I'm the only one and others are fake. Fundamentalism was not invented in India, thankfully. Also we are so overwhelmingly confident that we may ask British to Sing VandeMataram and adopt it as their national anthem for coming to India and being part of Indian history for sometime.
Arun.prabhu wrote:LOL Okay. Rejecting their God gives you power? I'm self confident enough to look down on white men. I'm their equal or better. If you need these silly stunts or think that forcing them to play Vande Mataram is how you'll be their equal or superior, then who am I to stop you? By all means, don't stop with these silly renamings and pointless nothings. Reject everything English in our nation. Bring back Sati, bring back our useless ****** monarchies who gifted India to a trading corporation because they could never see past their noses and bring back the varna system!uddu wrote:Not all gods are the same. Some gods says I'm the only one and others are fake. Fundamentalism was not invented in India, thankfully. Also we are so overwhelmingly confident that we may ask British to Sing VandeMataram and adopt it as their national anthem for coming to India and being part of Indian history for sometime.
The Shaurya Chakra is an Indian military decoration awarded for valour, courageous action or self-sacrifice while not engaged in direct action with the enemy. It may be awarded to civilians as well as military personnel, sometimes posthumously. It is third in order of precedence of peacetime gallantry awards and comes after the Ashoka Chakra and the Kirti Chakra. It precedes the Sena Medal.....
It is the peacetime equivalent of the Vir Chakra. It is generally awarded for Counter-Insurgency operations and actions against the enemy during peace-time.
Lt Col Jyoti Lama and Sep Karmdeo Oraon displayed conspicuous courage & bravery in counter terrorism operations. Awarded #ShauryaChakra
Maj K B Singh, Nb Sub Narender Singh , Nb Sub Sombir and Nk Naresh Kumar Rifles displayed conspicuous courage & bravery in counter terrorism operations. Awarded #ShauryaChakra
The Shaurya Chakra is awarded for gallantry other than in the face of the enemy.
Nikhil T wrote:40 day war reserves is going to be terribly expensive, with ordnance needing proper storage, servicing and replacement. I don’t see how a 40 day intense war is possible in this day and age, where international intervention would be quick to stop any prolonged war between nuclear armed countries. Seeing as how this is an Army project, this might also starve IAF and IN of funding.